FF8 Party v.s. Ganondorf

Originally posted by The Scenario
Battle animations are too unreliable
Squall takes hits from this
Yet a spike of ice is more viable?
Featless spells are worse than a miss

You think it has nothing to do
With Zelda's spell of holding, too?
Along with the blade, Evil's Bane
Blinding him with pain?

I said no proof of flame
That form is more of spirit
Kain's mist has none to blame
Ganon's form has none to hear it
You claim intangibility still
Yet it won't help against the swill?

Yet the sphere does not resemble fire?
When it engulfs Zant, the burning pyre?

Want to speak to Rundus
When you made the claim against us?
Screen fades out and time passes
This time backward for the masses
Just check the teleports once more
Start and arrival what you look for

The crystal is quick enough for this
Invisibility to cause attacks to miss
Intangibility you've seen before
Not in flame but Darkness more
You think swords and guns will work
When Ganon's shown them a petty quirk?

Not really, and in this case were talking about an actual model of the meteor which is what this is, combine that with what the spell does, e.g. summon meteor rock and its a pretty obvious spell. nice one, bringing up gameplay mechanics, squall taking a hit from a meteor in a gameplay move is not canon....a static model used in an animation is, ofc those animations with characters doing highly exagerated feats is questionable.

assuming that shes still holding dorf it may be "possible" 😉

You whined about how the fact it looks exactly like flame and the fact you said it was a flaming head yourself was not good enough to go by, yet your logic on other things is based on how things "looked", your claim is redundant.

No, I am not sure what the sphere resembled, it looked like a ball of mud lol..

That was time going forwards still....to an event that happens after what we see. In this case we dont see the two from the previous scene so nothing indiciates that this was indeed a previous scene, the teleport could just be slow.

Not really, very long potential cast time. Its featless on the "cast" speed because we dont see Ganon doing it. And that only beats one person, assuming it works at all and that they cant teleport or just break loose.
invisability will not be useful attack, especially when the spellcasters are blowing him to piecies with fire and ice which will cover him, if their clever they will look for shadows and hear for sound.

Show me the intangibility? I dont recall, in any case i doubt he can do anything apart from hide in that form.

Ganons not shown them to be anything, hes never faced guns and hes never been sliced into kibble.

Originally posted by TacDavey
You just repeat the same thing that you had at the start

Now this is certainly you, youve sort of seemed to have given up and are now spamming a poem instead of arguments or evidence, it almost like a concession but ill take it thanks.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't think there is any part in Zelda that says "These arrows hurt evil and absolutely nothing else.

I don't know, I never played Zelda. I have heard that those arrows just destroy evil.

Originally posted by TacDavey
No, I'm providing a list of Ganon's know feats that show him to be powerful, as well as the game stating it. Adel's only defense is, she was ruler for a time and people were scared of her. She has no feats, and no record of her abilities.

Furthermore, I'm not necessarily claiming that Adel isn't stronger than Ganon, only that there is absolutely NO evidence to suggest she is.

Feats? Those arrows aren't his feats, neither that sword. I don't even know what he uses to fight. I agree, we don't see much about Adel, I'm not denying it. Adel does have feats, but the game or plot doesn't show them, I personally think that's not really important. We don't really know how she performs in a battle nor what specific abilities she possess.

Originally posted by TacDavey
No I'm not. Seifer defeated Odin, and Ganon is much stronger than Seifer. I'm not underrating FF8 at all. You all are overrating them. You are claiming Adel is stronger with no evidence to back it up. You claim GFs are stonger with no evidence to back it up. And you claim Holy can do more than Light Arrows, even though it is just a normal spell in FF8, whereas Light Arrows are canonically one of the most powerful weapons. That sounds a bit overrated to me.

The party defeated Odin first. I never claimed that Adel is stronger than Ganon, I never claimed anything of what you mention in this post and I'm not overrating Final Fantasy VIII. You sound biased, actually. Like I said, Holy is one of the strongest spells. Those light arrows can be canonically powerful to Ganon, but not to Zell (For example), because you said it, it's canonically. If those arrows stuns Ganon, it means he's canonically weak to them, so that's why they stuns him, that's what they do in canon, but we can't say that the arrows would stun Zell in canon, because Zell has nothing to do with those light arrows in canon, because it's canonically in Zelda. They could hurt Zell though, but that's all, but since Ganon doens't fight with those arrows, then it's irrelevant.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Really? What have either of those two done, Hmm? Ultimicia can make spells from peoples minds, but that is about all she has

That's because you don't know anything about her and hardly about Final Fantasy VIII.
That's just one of her abilities. She can create powerful creatures such as Griever just by going to your mind, Griever was Squall's strongest thought, just a thought, and she made it the most powerful GF in existence in about 5 seconds. She can also give birth to powerful creatures just by some simple and normal statues as she did before the parade and she was even controlling Edea at the same time. She can manipulate everything. And that's just one of her abilities. Either way it doesn't matter, Ultimecia is not here. Just pointing this out.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, and in this case were talking about an actual model of the meteor which is what this is, combine that with what the spell does, e.g. summon meteor rock and its a pretty obvious spell. nice one, bringing up gameplay mechanics, squall taking a hit from a meteor in a gameplay move is not canon....a static model used in an animation is, ofc those animations with characters doing highly exagerated feats is questionable.

Choosing mechanics over canon?
You must really hate Ganon
That spell still has no feats to use
Without such, Ganon can't lose

assuming that shes still holding dorf it may be "possible" 😉

Glad we agree
Wasn't hard, see?

You whined about how the fact it looks exactly like flame and the fact you said it was a flaming head yourself was not good enough to go by, yet your logic on other things is based on how things "looked", your claim is redundant.

What is this you speak?
Whining is not such to seek
You're still playing a guessing game
Why not try to prove your claim?

No, I am not sure what the sphere resembled, it looked like a ball of mud lol..

That's the proof, take or leave
Though I doubt you will believe
Fire acts as fire will
This does not, there is no kill

That was time going forwards still....to an event that happens after what we see. In this case we dont see the two from the previous scene so nothing indiciates that this was indeed a previous scene, the teleport could just be slow.

Guessing, guessing everywhere
Slow teleports I can surely bear
Of course it is, watch the scene
But not slow enough to miss the mean
We see the pair arrive just in time
For the attack to finish, destruction's mime

Not really, very long potential cast time. Its featless on the "cast" speed because we dont see Ganon doing it. And that only beats one person, assuming it works at all and that they cant teleport or just break loose.
invisability will not be useful attack, especially when the spellcasters are blowing him to piecies with fire and ice which will cover him, if their clever they will look for shadows and hear for sound.

We've been over these before
Must I show you evermore?
The crystal works on seven or less
Enough to clean up the party's mess
5 second cast time at the most
To Ganon's spell they'll all be host
Paralyzation, too, you ignore
What kept Zelda in stupor
Ivisibility they cannot sense
In the storm Ganon calls hence

Show me the intangibility? I dont recall, in any case i doubt he can do anything apart from hide in that form.

YouTube video

1:16 will tell you all
You need of the party's fall
With the curse of Eternal Night
None can survive the party's plight
Hide Ganon can do, and attack as well
Snipe from distance with long range spell

Ganons not shown them to be anything, hes never faced guns and hes never been sliced into kibble.

Have you not been paying attention?
Swords do not deserve a mention
Guns Ganon hasn't seen
But in his storm, they will not glean

I don't know, I never played Zelda. I have heard that those arrows just destroy evil.

Wind Waker, an odd case
Light Arrows damage Link's face

Feats? Those arrows aren't his feats, neither that sword. I don't even know what he uses to fight. I agree, we don't see much about Adel, I'm not denying it. Adel does have feats, but the game or plot doesn't show them, I personally think that's not really important. We don't really know how she performs in a battle nor what specific abilities she possess.

A defensive feat is all they are
Ganon tanking weapons of war
He himself uses sword and spell
Occasional trident, demonic, fell

Let the Flame head thing die already. No part in the thread.

Choosing mechanics over canon?
You must really hate Ganon
That spell still has no feats to use
Without such, Ganon can't lose

This is something I've learned to expect,
from certain posters who fail to detect
the presence of logic, canon, and fact.
They make silly claims, that are not backed,
and claim Ganon's weak without proof.
Shame how they can't seem to see the truth.

Originally posted by The Scenario

YouTube video

1:16 will tell you all
You need of the party's fall
With the curse of Eternal Night
None can survive the party's plight
Hide Ganon can do, and attack as well
Snipe from distance with long range spell

Bright light nulls the Technique of Darkness. The only time Ganon would even have a chance against the FF8 party is when becomes the Prince of Darkness in Legend of Zelda. Link needed the Triforce of Wisdom to eliminate his intangibility (as he became Darkness itself). Still, he was invisible during the whole fight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Now this is certainly you, youve sort of seemed to have given up and are now spamming a poem instead of arguments or evidence, it almost like a concession but ill take it thanks.

An interesting thought, but not quite right.
I've been the one bringing evidence to this fight.
Even the post to which you just replied
Responded to points you brought against my side.

I'm not spamming I'm waiting for you
To provide evidence of the stance you hold to.
You still haven't shown that your stance is correct.
So unfortunately I am not finished yet.

What are a couple of things that you claim?
Limit Breaks and Holy hurt Ganon? For shame.
Lionheart is nothing but many a powerful slash.
But Ganon is unharmed by the most powerful magic when they clash.

What makes you think Lionheart would get the job done?
I see no reason to think Ganon would even feel anything from this one.
Rinoa grows wings, so that makes her the best.
Does that place Sephiroth above all the rest?

Ganon shrugs off even the most powerful magic.
Rinoa against him would end painfully tragic.
Squall took an icicle and nearly wound up dead.
But Ganon survived a sword through the gut and the head.

Tell me, what makes you think the crew would escape death?
I'll be waiting for evidence but I won't hold my breath.
The problem you face is your claims have no logical support
As far as this topic is concerned you will have to abort.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Choosing mechanics over canon?
You must really hate Ganon
That spell still has no feats to use
Without such, Ganon can't lose

Glad we agree
Wasn't hard, see?

What is this you speak?
Whining is not such to seek
You're still playing a guessing game
Why not try to prove your claim?

That's the proof, take or leave
Though I doubt you will believe
Fire acts as fire will
This does not, there is no kill

Guessing, guessing everywhere
Slow teleports I can surely bear
Of course it is, watch the scene
But not slow enough to miss the mean
We see the pair arrive just in time
For the attack to finish, destruction's mime

We've been over these before
Must I show you evermore?
The crystal works on seven or less
Enough to clean up the party's mess
5 second cast time at the most
To Ganon's spell they'll all be host
Paralyzation, too, you ignore
What kept Zelda in stupor
Ivisibility they cannot sense
In the storm Ganon calls hence

YouTube video

1:16 will tell you all
You need of the party's fall
With the curse of Eternal Night
None can survive the party's plight
Hide Ganon can do, and attack as well
Snipe from distance with long range spell

Have you not been paying attention?
Swords do not deserve a mention
Guns Ganon hasn't seen
But in his storm, they will not glean

Wind Waker, an odd case
Light Arrows damage Link's face

A defensive feat is all they are
Ganon tanking weapons of war
He himself uses sword and spell
Occasional trident, demonic, fell

lol what? I just called you out for using gameplay mechanics and then you claim I am apprently using gameplay mechanics? 🙄

I agree that its possible, thats not necesserily what happened..

Maybe you should have found a rhyme that actually replied to my point.

Your proof that Ganons fiery head does not burn or act like fire is a muddy looking sphere? "sigh"

Only that was a few seconds after they arive and the explosion caused a tremur first which is not shown when midna strikes....therefore she did not cause the explosion, Ganon did in his counter attack (or they both did). And your guessing the teleport was from their point of view.

Youve not shown me it working on 7 people, only on Zelda iirc...5 seconds at the most? thats a wild guess, we dont even see him cast the spell and whats more he had plenty of time to do it in. Assuming he can call the storm while using his instangbility or invisbility, more importantly is there a feat for the storms cast time? or is that an off-screen thing your assuming he can do in time?

I see the same vid you claim he is teleporting in, is that intangbility, teleportation? looks more like a limited teleportation/afterimage spell that lets him move quicker than he usually does and sin says it can be nullified with light.

yes I have, the problem is you have not payed attension at all to Ganon getting impaled and sliced by most weapons hes faced with, your probably making the foolish assumption the party are going to stop at impalement. yes because storms nullify bullets, as soon as a bit of rain comes on soldiers in modern warefare put all their weapons away and pull out combat knives...oh wait no they dont...

Originally posted by TacDavey
An interesting thought, but not quite right.
I've been the one bringing evidence to this fight.
Even the post to which you just replied
Responded to points you brought against my side.

I'm not spamming I'm waiting for you
To provide evidence of the stance you hold to.
You still haven't shown that your stance is correct.
So unfortunately I am not finished yet.

What are a couple of things that you claim?
Limit Breaks and Holy hurt Ganon? For shame.
Lionheart is nothing but many a powerful slash.
But Ganon is unharmed by the most powerful magic when they clash.

What makes you think Lionheart would get the job done?
I see no reason to think Ganon would even feel anything from this one.
Rinoa grows wings, so that makes her the best.
Does that place Sephiroth above all the rest?

Ganon shrugs off even the most powerful magic.
Rinoa against him would end painfully tragic.
Squall took an icicle and nearly wound up dead.
But Ganon survived a sword through the gut and the head.

Tell me, what makes you think the crew would escape death?
I'll be waiting for evidence but I won't hold my breath.
The problem you face is your claims have no logical support
As far as this topic is concerned you will have to abort.

You made several assertions in this post and did not attempt to back them up, my argument is based on Ganons lack of feats and your proving it all the time. Ganon shrugging off powerful magic, shrugging off multiple slashes from swords? hes been carved up by almost every sword used on him.....(sages sword, MS)

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol what? I just called you out for using gameplay mechanics and then you claim I am apprently using gameplay mechanics? 🙄

That spell has nothing more
Save mechanics, what a bore
Why won't you back up your claim
Rather that attack and blame?

I agree that its possible, thats not necesserily what happened..

It's what the evidence did suggest
So how about we just give it a rest?

Maybe you should have found a rhyme that actually replied to my point.

Your point was based on nothing
So I had little with which to lurk
Next time be a bit forthcoming
And I may be able to actually work

Your proof that Ganons fiery head does not burn or act like fire is a muddy looking sphere? "sigh"

Yes indeed, it's the only proof
Unless you can counter sooth

Only that was a few seconds after they arive and the explosion caused a tremur first which is not shown when midna strikes....therefore she did not cause the explosion, Ganon did in his counter attack (or they both did). And your guessing the teleport was from their point of view.

The flash of light proves you right
Though I did before
If point of view was from Link's sight
We'd have seen no more

Youve not shown me it working on 7 people, only on Zelda iirc...5 seconds at the most? thats a wild guess, we dont even see him cast the spell and whats more he had plenty of time to do it in. Assuming he can call the storm while using his instangbility or invisbility, more importantly is there a feat for the storms cast time? or is that an off-screen thing your assuming he can do in time?

YouTube video

At 1:40 we can see
Another Maiden in crystal
Seven such must be free
ALttP, in crystal all

YouTube video

Before Link visits, clear skies across the sea
Afterward, the world is dark
No time at all that I can see
Some dialogue and then the mark

I see the same vid you claim he is teleporting in, is that intangbility, teleportation? looks more like a limited teleportation/afterimage spell that lets him move quicker than he usually does and sin says it can be nullified with light.

Darkness Technique I've said many a time
When lights go out Ganon's running them blind
Lighting the torches is all that will work
Fire Rod and Lantern merely a quirk

yes I have, the problem is you have not payed attension at all to Ganon getting impaled and sliced by most weapons hes faced with, your probably making the foolish assumption the party are going to stop at impalement. yes because storms nullify bullets, as soon as a bit of rain comes on soldiers in modern warefare put all their weapons away and pull out combat knives...oh wait no they dont...

Just Master Sword is the one true canon
Despite game mechanics harming Ganon
The Sage's sword of Light is the same
Since they made both yet little harm came
The party's blades won't do a thing
Against Ganondorf, evil King

Now please think about it
Guns won't be of use
When Ganon can't be hit
And closes the invisible noose

Originally posted by Burning thought
You made several assertions in this post and did not attempt to back them up, my argument is based on Ganons lack of feats and your proving it all the time. Ganon shrugging off powerful magic, shrugging off multiple slashes from swords? hes been carved up by almost every sword used on him.....(sages sword, MS)

If that's is truly the way that you feel,
Then my "assertions" you can reveal.
What part of my claim has not been supplied
With evidence enough to continue the ride?

You say that's it's Ganon's resistance to magic, I see
But how do you explain the scene in TP?
Midna had used the most powerful dark spell
But before Ganon, it too simply fell.

You also said Ganon falls to many a blade
But I don't see why that statement was made.
He falls to the Master Sword, yes that much is true
But, when compared to normal swords, there's much more it can do.

I also noticed you neglected to note
The other point in my last post I wrote.
What of Holy, where is the evidence you claim to possess
That places it above the Light Arrows and the rest?

Squall is a human, while Ganon is more
And has much more power to be quite sure.
If Squall is impaled he dies like the rest
But Ganon has already been put to the test.

Ganon survives getting stabbed in the face
That alone should be enough to put Squall in his place.
Never mind that it was a sword of great power
While Squall couldn't stand an Icicle shower.

Originally posted by TacDavey
If that's is truly the way that you feel,
Then my "assertions" you can reveal.
What part of my claim has not been supplied
With evidence enough to continue the ride?

You say that's it's Ganon's resistance to magic, I see
But how do you explain the scene in TP?
Midna had used the most powerful dark spell
But before Ganon, it too simply fell.

You also said Ganon falls to many a blade
But I don't see why that statement was made.
He falls to the Master Sword, yes that much is true
But, when compared to normal swords, there's much more it can do.

I also noticed you neglected to note
The other point in my last post I wrote.
What of Holy, where is the evidence you claim to possess
That places it above the Light Arrows and the rest?

Squall is a human, while Ganon is more
And has much more power to be quite sure.
If Squall is impaled he dies like the rest
But Ganon has already been put to the test.

Ganon survives getting stabbed in the face
That alone should be enough to put Squall in his place.
Never mind that it was a sword of great power
While Squall couldn't stand an Icicle shower.

If your refering to the castle breaking one, it never happens as theres no conclusive evidence to support it being a feat, any number of things could have happened in that scene and midna damaging Ganon is not found, its just what LoZ fans want to belive.

He fails at the two swords used on him, they slice into him. That means he can be sliced up into little bits unless you can actually prove his durability.

Squall dieing from ice does not undermine his powers or weapons, considering Ganon does not have anything like that ice at his disposal and he himself is sliced quite easily.

Originally posted by The Scenario
That spell has nothing more
Save mechanics, what a bore
Why won't you back up your claim
Rather that attack and blame?

It's what the evidence did suggest
So how about we just give it a rest?

Your point was based on nothing
So I had little with which to lurk
Next time be a bit forthcoming
And I may be able to actually work

Yes indeed, it's the only proof
Unless you can counter sooth

The flash of light proves you right
Though I did before
If point of view was from Link's sight
We'd have seen no more

YouTube video

At 1:40 we can see
Another Maiden in crystal
Seven such must be free
ALttP, in crystal all

YouTube video

Before Link visits, clear skies across the sea
Afterward, the world is dark
No time at all that I can see
Some dialogue and then the mark

Darkness Technique I've said many a time
When lights go out Ganon's running them blind
Lighting the torches is all that will work
Fire Rod and Lantern merely a quirk

Just Master Sword is the one true canon
Despite game mechanics harming Ganon
The Sage's sword of Light is the same
Since they made both yet little harm came
The party's blades won't do a thing
Against Ganondorf, evil King

Now please think about it
Guns won't be of use
When Ganon can't be hit
And closes the invisible noose

It has the fact it summons a meteor, thats not a gameplay "mechanic" 😉

its not really important because Ganon will be shredded, not just stabbed in the head so I guess I will digress, I know the theories cannot be proven.

It had plenty of foundation, you sort of dodged the fact you called it a flaming head and your basing your ideas on what "appears" to happen in most of these ambigious scenes. Your a hypocrite at best and now your dodging this fact....

Thats as much proof as me showing a video of a dancing cat and claiming it proves Ganon is weak, its absolutly useless so why would I counter something that does not support your point?

you didnt expand on the last point...again...

Yes because the members of the FF party are just going to stand there as he casts the crystal spell over and over again. hes not even going to get a spell off, let alone enough to get them all and the other members are mor than likely going to break them out anyway.

Yes I thought so, considering the FF team have light, holy and fire spells that all create light (infact most powers they use will make light) then this technique is useless....Ganon brieftly stops now and then to attack even while its active so its still useless.

I thought you would come out with this big fat no limits fallacy, Ganons not been hit by anything significant and the few swords that have hit him, sliced through him. Trying to claim its only because their special weapons when hes no evidence to others is redundant.

I find it funny how BT still tries,
despite us correcting him,
to still spread his lies.
His sage argunment is dim,
A wound before Ganon had his power.
Ganon here has his triforce,
The EffEff party can only cower,
while Ganon destroys their life force.

Youve not corrected anyone, apart from perhaps my opinion of your ignorence which has strengthened somewhat.

Your fanon does not make canon,
I suggest you just drop Ganon.
hes nowhere near as strong as you want him to be,
the developers would cry out and plea,
if they could only see your fanboy spree

Originally posted by Burning thought
If your refering to the castle breaking one, it never happens as theres no conclusive evidence to support it being a feat, any number of things could have happened in that scene and midna damaging Ganon is not found, its just what LoZ fans want to belive.

So much progress dead and gone
This was already debated upon
How can you say Midna did harm
With the Fused Shadows in Ganon's arm?
That was his point, you see how
Midna couldn't harm him, not then, not now

He fails at the two swords used on him, they slice into him. That means he can be sliced up into little bits unless you can actually prove his durability.

The Sage's Sword struck
Before Power took hold
Then once it was stuck
Ganon destroyed the old

Two swords of power
And both fail the kill
A normal sword's hour
Is worth less than nil

Squall dieing from ice does not undermine his powers or weapons, considering Ganon does not have anything like that ice at his disposal and he himself is sliced quite easily.

Durability, man, Squall does not possess
Ganon has killed him with a stab to the chest
Ganon doesn't need Ice, just his sword
Squall dies easy, Ganon is lord

It has the fact it summons a meteor, thats not a gameplay "mechanic" 😉

But does that mean much
Against Ganon and such?
I don't much care about this spell
Except that it can damage well
I really don't see it having much use
When intangible Ganon's loose

its not really important because Ganon will be shredded, not just stabbed in the head so I guess I will digress, I know the theories cannot be proven.

Even if, big if, that's true
Ganon doesn't die, so boo
Without a body he can fight
And make a new one, right

It had plenty of foundation, you sort of dodged the fact you called it a flaming head and your basing your ideas on what "appears" to happen in most of these ambigious scenes. Your a hypocrite at best and now your dodging this fact....

I dodged nothing, listen please
I call it flame for sake of ease
Why you think it can be quenched
I can't imagine or be entrenched

Thats as much proof as me showing a video of a dancing cat and claiming it proves Ganon is weak, its absolutly useless so why would I counter something that does not support your point?

You call it mere fire, I disagree
The proof is there, plain to see
It seems more of spirit than of flame
There you have it, that's my claim
If you can't accept evidence
That's not my problem, hence

you didnt expand on the last point...again...

Link and Zelda teleported
Then came Midna's strike
After was the attack aborted
Before L and Z arrive alike?
There was pulse of energy and light
Same color as Midna's spear
One conclusion proven right
The attack and pulse are clear
One and the same they are
It's quite easy to behold
Before the castle is left a scar
Time rewinded, truth be told

Yes because the members of the FF party are just going to stand there as he casts the crystal spell over and over again. hes not even going to get a spell off, let alone enough to get them all and the other members are mor than likely going to break them out anyway.

Can't see, can't harm
Don't see how they will
When paralyzed, body and arm
As Ganon goes to kill

Yes I thought so, considering the FF team have light, holy and fire spells that all create light (infact most powers they use will make light) then this technique is useless....Ganon brieftly stops now and then to attack even while its active so its still useless.

Not enough consistent light
That won't put up much of a fight
Quick flashes will not work
And they can't aim, so that's a perk

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganon is lord.

All hail Lord Ganon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He fails at the two swords used on him, they slice into him. That means he can be sliced up into little bits unless you can actually prove his durability.

Of course he'd be cut by a weapon designed
With that one goal clearly in mind.
But look at what happens when with any other weapon you arm
In the end Ganon is completely unharmed.

Look at Wind Waker for more arguments made.
When Link attacks Ganon with anything other that the fully charged blade.
It bounces right off as if striking stone.
That's far above any skill the FF party can hone.

All other weapons may cut him, they might cause some pain.
But hurting and killing are not even close to the same.
No normal weapon can do it, even the Master Sword has failed before
In an attempt to permanently put Ganon on the floor.

So if Ganon takes swords like they are made out of wood
What makes you think the gunblade would do any good?
As far as I can see the gunblade is basically the norm.
It wouldn't hold up to Ganon's storm.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If your refering to the castle breaking one, it never happens as theres no conclusive evidence to support it being a feat, any number of things could have happened in that scene and midna damaging Ganon is not found, its just what LoZ fans want to belive.

That is your stance behind which you hide?
You cannot conclude because the scene switches outside?
There is a special sort of irrationality that you must display
To consider bringing that argument into play.

Does that mean all games face a similar blight
The moment the characters get out of sight?
Its called common sense, most people can use it for such things to detect
Except when they are shown their stance isn't correct.

You use logic and reasoning and basic smarts
To understand the whole from all of the parts.
Even if some are missing, like a small chunk of the scene
You can still know without it having to be RIGHT on the screen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Squall dieing from ice does not undermine his powers or weapons, considering Ganon does not have anything like that ice at his disposal and he himself is sliced quite easily.

I've already attended to the slicing bit
with my usual amount of rhythmical whit.
But as for the ice you missed the point I can tell
The main point was that to that attack Squall fell.

I didn't intend to sound like it was because of the ice that he died
That isn't at all what I thought I implied.
The point is, when Squall get's stabbed by anything it's the end.
But the same cannot be said of Ganon, my friend.

Ganon gets stuck with swords time and again
And that's only IF they manage to break the skin.
If Squall were to take even one of those he would have obviously died.
From this blatant truth you simply can't hide.

"if they could only see your fanboy spree"

Ah the fanboy argument at it's best.
Amongst all the arguments it topples the rest.
In any KMC discussion it always shows up regardless of topic.
It does you no good, you really should stop it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Of course he'd be cut by a weapon designed
With that one goal clearly in mind.
But look at what happens when with any other weapon you arm
In the end Ganon is completely unharmed.

Look at Wind Waker for more arguments made.
When Link attacks Ganon with anything other that the fully charged blade.
It bounces right off as if striking stone.
That's far above any skill the FF party can hone.

All other weapons may cut him, they might cause some pain.
But hurting and killing are not even close to the same.
No normal weapon can do it, even the Master Sword has failed before
In an attempt to permanently put Ganon on the floor.

So if Ganon takes swords like they are made out of wood
What makes you think the gunblade would do any good?
As far as I can see the gunblade is basically the norm.
It wouldn't hold up to Ganon's storm.

That is your stance behind which you hide?
You cannot conclude because the scene switches outside?
There is a special sort of irrationality that you must display
To consider bringing that argument into play.

Does that mean all games face a similar blight
The moment the characters get out of sight?
Its called common sense, most people can use it for such things to detect
Except when they are shown their stance isn't correct.

You use logic and reasoning and basic smarts
To understand the whole from all of the parts.
Even if some are missing, like a small chunk of the scene
You can still know without it having to be RIGHT on the screen.

I've already attended to the slicing bit
with my usual amount of rhythmical whit.
But as for the ice you missed the point I can tell
The main point was that to that attack Squall fell.

I didn't intend to sound like it was because of the ice that he died
That isn't at all what I thought I implied.
The point is, when Squall get's stabbed by anything it's the end.
But the same cannot be said of Ganon, my friend.

Ganon gets stuck with swords time and again
And that's only IF they manage to break the skin.
If Squall were to take even one of those he would have obviously died.
From this blatant truth you simply can't hide.

"if they could only see your fanboy spree"

Ah the fanboy argument at it's best.
Amongst all the arguments it topples the rest.
In any KMC discussion it always shows up regardless of topic.
It does you no good, you really should stop it.

As I said, prove that this weapon designed to kill him is the only one that "can" harm him? you cant, because its never happened and Ganons never shown resistant to other weapons. And your using gameplay mechanics now? shame...

Also Links not got the only magic weapon in fiction, the FF8 party have far more magic powers and weapons at their disposal than a sword.

Featless ganon gets shredded as hes not shown to be resistant.

I see, so apprently its common sense midna struck Ganon who was intangible anyway and despite Ganon defeating midna the blast we see outside the castle is certainly midnas? despite the strike we see making no large flashes or tremurs....

your unfounded claims and guesses dont make fact.

And using the MS Ganon is defeated over and over, oh and megaton hammer/biggorons sword when Link has no MS in OoT.

Originally posted by The Scenario
So much progress dead and gone
This was already debated upon
How can you say Midna did harm
With the Fused Shadows in Ganon's arm?
That was his point, you see how
Midna couldn't harm him, not then, not now

The Sage's Sword struck
Before Power took hold
Then once it was stuck
Ganon destroyed the old

Two swords of power
And both fail the kill
A normal sword's hour
Is worth less than nil

Durability, man, Squall does not possess
Ganon has killed him with a stab to the chest
Ganon doesn't need Ice, just his sword
Squall dies easy, Ganon is lord

But does that mean much
Against Ganon and such?
I don't much care about this spell
Except that it can damage well
I really don't see it having much use
When intangible Ganon's loose

Even if, big if, that's true
Ganon doesn't die, so boo
Without a body he can fight
And make a new one, right

I dodged nothing, listen please
I call it flame for sake of ease
Why you think it can be quenched
I can't imagine or be entrenched

You call it mere fire, I disagree
The proof is there, plain to see
It seems more of spirit than of flame
There you have it, that's my claim
If you can't accept evidence
That's not my problem, hence

Link and Zelda teleported
Then came Midna's strike
After was the attack aborted
Before L and Z arrive alike?
There was pulse of energy and light
Same color as Midna's spear
One conclusion proven right
The attack and pulse are clear
One and the same they are
It's quite easy to behold
Before the castle is left a scar
Time rewinded, truth be told

Can't see, can't harm
Don't see how they will
When paralyzed, body and arm
As Ganon goes to kill

Not enough consistent light
That won't put up much of a fight
Quick flashes will not work
And they can't aim, so that's a perk

Its never going to be agreed that midna struck dorf and he survived the attack because thats simply not whats shown or even implied.

You cant prove this at all, Ganons not stood unharmed against a normal sword either...

Ganons not fast enough and he has being disinegrated by holy and meteors to contend with.

Ganons intangibility is beaten by light which is what meteors give off, hence the bright shining trail behind them. The fact their fairly large in FF sort of puts Ganon to rest quite easily.

Counts as a defeat if he has to make another body, the FF party will be eliminating him over and over again although I am not sure if they have soul powers or those to trap him.

You call it flame because thats what it appears to be, just like according to you it "appears" that midna is making an attack. I agree with both things, as well as with Ganon having a fiery head form.

You claim its more spirit based on what grounds? its a fiery head as you yourself claimed and now its apprently "more spirit" and cannot be harmed because you want Ganondorf to survive 🙄 and your proof is a ball of shimmering mud? "sigh"

I see, your assuming its midnas strike based on what you see (seems I cant do that with Ganondorf) even though its obviously not her strike as theres a tremur before the castle explodes, this tremur does not happen when we see he strike, infact nothing happens apart from a very small flash of light. I think its more logical and supported that this was more likely Ganons counter.

Cant see? yes they can, as I said they have a lot of light spells or those that create it and as for not being able to harm, your making the assumption he can fight and use powers while intangible and that he can stay in this form for long durations. This is never founded as he appears continually in your video when he wants to strike.

They can aim, predict and shoot their huge light powers in all directions if they reall have to, not that they will, a few fireballs and slow Ganon will be quite easy meat, pummled with meteors and holy or just sliced like kibble.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As I said, prove that this weapon designed to kill him is the only one that "can" harm him? you cant, because its never happened and Ganons never shown resistant to other weapons. And your using gameplay mechanics now? shame...

Ganon has never shown resistance to other weapons are you sure?
Even the Master Sword has failed at it before.
I gave you examples, that you chose not hear
Perhaps because the end or your arguments are drawing near?

I gave you examples, did you even read what I said?
He gets stabbed through both the gut and the head.
And in Wind Waker the sword doesn't even get that far.
And that was with weapons far above the FF crews par.

You seem to pick and choose points you don't want to accept
And then simply claim the opposite effect.
Which means your credibility in this thread drops steadily every reply
As if we needed anymore reason to assume the FF party would die.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also Links not got the only magic weapon in fiction, the FF8 party have far more magic powers and weapons at their disposal than a sword.

Such as? Kindly share what you think that they have got.
Don't sit there and claim it like respond to it we've not.
Do you mean Holy? Yes we've been over that already
And the refutation to that is still going steady.

Perhaps Meteor? Or fire? But I see a flaw.
To even cast magic, from a monster they must draw.
They have no set spells, just like materia, we can't use.
Since there is no way to tell what magic they would abuse.

What was your plan, to just simply say
That they have EVERY spell with which to play?
What spells they can use is something the player must customize
So we can't just sit back and surmise.

When dealing with Cloud we don't claim that he has every materia ever
That's a stance that would not be so clever
And with FFXII we don't make the claim
That Vaan is the best will all skills, magic, and weapons in the game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see, so apprently its common sense midna struck Ganon who was intangible anyway and despite Ganon defeating midna the blast we see outside the castle is certainly midnas? despite the strike we see making no large flashes or tremurs....

Yes, actually it is common sense to apply
What we know of the scene to what we missed with the eye.
It obvious to every one with a little logic as base
Except to you because it obviously hurts your case.

No flashes or Tremors, Oh I didn't know
That a magic attack all those things it must show.
Otherwise I guess it never took place?
You will need some reasons for this argument to hold face.

The castle collapse seems an obvious shock
From a wicked powerful magic that Midna had in stock.
But against Ganon it's nothing at all
And thus we can see to Ganon it did fall.

What makes meteor better than one of the most potent dark powers?
You could sit there and claim it for hours.
It will never be more rational no matter how desperately to it you cling.
It just doesn't hold up, let's move on to a new thing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And using the MS Ganon is defeated over and over, oh and megaton hammer/biggorons sword when Link has no MS in OoT.

As a quick fix, perhaps.
That alone will not make Ganon collapse.
In the end those weapons never complete
The true death of Ganon, his actual defeat.

I responded to that in my last post
But you seem to have ignored it like you did most.
So I guess to respond it will simply have to be
A bit taken from my last bit of poetry.

"Look at Wind Waker for more arguments made.
When Link attacks Ganon with anything other that the fully charged blade.
It bounces right off as if striking stone.
That's far above any skill the FF party can hone.

All other weapons may cut him, they might cause some pain.
But hurting and killing are not even close to the same.
No normal weapon can do it, even the Master Sword has failed before
In an attempt to permanently put Ganon on the floor.

So if Ganon takes swords like they are made out of wood
What makes you think the gunblade would do any good?
As far as I can see the gunblade is basically the norm.
It wouldn't hold up to Ganon's storm."

Squall get's stabbed and passes right out
Ganon takes swords and is ready for another bout.
Tell me, which one seems more powerful in the end?
If you really do need it, a hint I can lend.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Ganon has never shown resistance to other weapons are you sure?
Even the Master Sword has failed at it before.
I gave you examples, that you chose not hear
Perhaps because the end or your arguments are drawing near?

I gave you examples, did you even read what I said?
He gets stabbed through both the gut and the head.
And in Wind Waker the sword doesn't even get that far.
And that was with weapons far above the FF crews par.

You seem to pick and choose points you don't want to accept
And then simply claim the opposite effect.
Which means your credibility in this thread drops steadily every reply
As if we needed anymore reason to assume the FF party would die.

Such as? Kindly share what you think that they have got.
Don't sit there and claim it like respond to it we've not.
Do you mean Holy? Yes we've been over that already
And the refutation to that is still going steady.

Perhaps Meteor? Or fire? But I see a flaw.
To even cast magic, from a monster they must draw.
They have no set spells, just like materia, we can't use.
Since there is no way to tell what magic they would abuse.

What was your plan, to just simply say
That they have EVERY spell with which to play?
What spells they can use is something the player must customize
So we can't just sit back and surmise.

When dealing with Cloud we don't claim that he has every materia ever
That's a stance that would not be so clever
And with FFXII we don't make the claim
That Vaan is the best will all skills, magic, and weapons in the game.

Yes, actually it is common sense to apply
What we know of the scene to what we missed with the eye.
It obvious to every one with a little logic as base
Except to you because it obviously hurts your case.

No flashes or Tremors, Oh I didn't know
That a magic attack all those things it must show.
Otherwise I guess it never took place?
You will need some reasons for this argument to hold face.

The castle collapse seems an obvious shock
From a wicked powerful magic that Midna had in stock.
But against Ganon it's nothing at all
And thus we can see to Ganon it did fall.

What makes meteor better than one of the most potent dark powers?
You could sit there and claim it for hours.
It will never be more rational no matter how desperately to it you cling.
It just doesn't hold up, let's move on to a new thing.

As a quick fix, perhaps.
That alone will not make Ganon collapse.
In the end those weapons never complete
The true death of Ganon, his actual defeat.

I responded to that in my last post
But you seem to have ignored it like you did most.
So I guess to respond it will simply have to be
A bit taken from my last bit of poetry.

"Look at Wind Waker for more arguments made.
When Link attacks Ganon with anything other that the fully charged blade.
It bounces right off as if striking stone.
That's far above any skill the FF party can hone.

All other weapons may cut him, they might cause some pain.
But hurting and killing are not even close to the same.
No normal weapon can do it, even the Master Sword has failed before
In an attempt to permanently put Ganon on the floor.

So if Ganon takes swords like they are made out of wood
What makes you think the gunblade would do any good?
As far as I can see the gunblade is basically the norm.
It wouldn't hold up to Ganon's storm."

Squall get's stabbed and passes right out
Ganon takes swords and is ready for another bout.
Tell me, which one seems more powerful in the end?
If you really do need it, a hint I can lend.

No they were gameplay mechanics. And you claim their "far above" ,whats this based on?

Your refute it but with no reason, Ganon has no resistance, same with meteors, fireballs, lightning, ice etc.....

Sounds like you concede to Ganon being destroyed by those powers. And if this thread was made without the FF8 team having any materia then obviously theres at least one attempt to take away something they could pummel Ganon with.

Gameplay mechanics again...canon, e.g. OoT says otherwise.

Ganons not taken swords like their made of wood, hes been sliced, impaled etc by them. If they were made out of wood they would break or slide aside like they would if hitting a real resistant charatcer, Ganons not one.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No they were gameplay mechanics. And you claim their "far above" ,whats this based on?

Gameplay mechanics? How is that so?
All those examples where movie scenes you know.
And backed by the plot, I think I might say
There's no way your making these points go away.

By "far above" I'm talking of the weapons they equip.
From gunblades to fists to guns and even a whip.
All ordinary weapons, not even the same
As a holy powered blade of evils bane.

The gunblade is nothing but a sword with a gun
That doesn't even shoot, which isn't much fun.
The weapons used to defeat Ganon are of a special make
And even they sometimes fail at the task they undertake.

The Sword of Sages didn't seem to do it's job well
When it was used to try and send Ganon to hell.
Even the Master Sword when with out the sages backing
Was found against Ganon to be particularly lacking.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your refute it but with no reason, Ganon has no resistance, same with meteors, fireballs, lightning, ice etc.....

No reason you say? I must disagree.
We gave reasons quite plentifully.
If Light Arrows stun but can't land a kill
What reasoning do you use to assume Holy will?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sounds like you concede to Ganon being destroyed by those powers. And if this thread was made without the FF8 team having any materia then obviously theres at least one attempt to take away something they could pummel Ganon with.

When did I say that? Don't tell me what I said.
I NEVER said these powers could make Ganon dead.
But regardless it's all irrelevant anyway.
For player customizable content just can't come into play.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Gameplay mechanics again...canon, e.g. OoT says otherwise.

Ganons not taken swords like their made of wood, hes been sliced, impaled etc by them. If they were made out of wood they would break or slide aside like they would if hitting a real resistant charatcer, Ganons not one.

What's gameplay mechanics? You can't just throw that title around.
There are no examples of gameplay mechanics anywhere to be found.
And Ganon deflects them, Just look at WW if you please.
The Sword bounces right off with ease.

Sometimes they cut him and sometimes they don't
But the one thing that is consistent is these weapons simply wont
Finish him off. Yes that cannot be denied.
With anything else Ganon simply has never died.

In Wind Waker the sword was not at full might
And they found that they were in quite a plight.
For they could not defeat Ganon unless power was restored
To the blade of evils bane, none other than the Master Sword.

This obviously shows that Ganon cannot be destroyed
By ordinary weapons, when used against him he only get's annoyed.
The evidence is overwhelming, the case has been made.
There would be no hope of damage with the Gunblade.