Kain vs Team

Started by MooCowofJustice27 pages

Originally posted by Burning thought

- If the fold is not in this Vs, how is he accessing it?

- Not sure tbh, a powerful mind does not mean you have the technique or ability to even realise your being mindcontrolled, let alone defend against it.

-Not really, he can still mind control Nick fury, just not keep control assuming they can overide Kains control. If they do, Kain does it again.

Same way Kain is accessing magic even though he's not in Nosgoth. Through the miraculous powers of JUSTICE!

You're joking, right? Psychics deal in the abilities of the mind. That's why we call them psychics.

You don't seem to understand. Mind controlling Fury won't do any good. The Nanites are in control. Fury's brain doesn't do anything, it's a toy of the Nanites.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Same way Kain is accessing magic even though he's not in Nosgoth. Through the miraculous powers of JUSTICE!

You're joking, right? Psychics deal in the abilities of the mind. That's why we call them psychics.

You don't seem to understand. Mind controlling Fury won't do any good. The Nanites are in control. Fury's brain doesn't do anything, it's a toy of the Nanites.

Fair enough. So he has access to entities, forces and psychic waves not even in the VS? hmm...

Yeh, abilities of the mind. That does not give them defence against mind rapers.

Its still a mind, the machines may influence it but Kain just has to rape the mind and hes in, even if the nanites regain control. Kain still managed to MC.

Also Kain takes Nick furies blood.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fair enough. So he has access to entities, forces and psychic waves not even in the VS? hmm...

Yeh, abilities of the mind. That does not give them defence against mind rapers.

Its still a mind, the machines may influence it but Kain just has to rape the mind and hes in, even if the nanites regain control. Kain still managed to MC.

Also Kain takes Nick furies blood.

Well, yeah. It's only fair since everyone in this thread is at their most powerful.

Wouldn't mental defense be one of the abilities of the mind? Yeah.

It is a mind that doesn't do anything. The Nanites were built to override the person's control of their own brain. Kain can control Fury all he wants, but the Nanites are the ones with the real control.

Good luck with that. Durability, immunity to magical attacks, and force fields. Even if he manages to do that, he just makes more with the healing factor he gets from (I think) Lady Deathstrike.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cute, "likes to think what kain is", if thats all he can do then I doubt he can do much at all.

Yes because letting something slide down is immense control, theres no physical way they could have done that at all, its just an anime esque action scene in that case since physically the bullets would have just fallen all over the place, and based on the fact Vergil just spins his sword like a fan, the bullets would just pop or be sliced apart in the first place or go flying off.

Unbelievable luck indeed. The fact hes shot the first time proves it tbh.

The swords are white because their covered in rain which is illuminated, their not much faster than the "slow mo" that your claiming tbh. We can still easily trace their movements.

Ive seen it, you posting the vid again doesnt change the fact that Dante is not even attacked and the toads are not slow until their shot up into the air. Dante still takes a long time getting out his weapons, too long.

Yes right, beause you have evidence to suggest I am bias...oh wait no you dont, your deduction is because I disagree with you and others who dont have a clue about the games their trying to argue for, I have finished all DMC games and based on a few vids and not even knowing who Nero is you think you can argue against me? lulz, have you even played LoK for that matter? Not sure, quicksilver is one of those strange powers that take a second or more to activate and its still based on Dantes reaction time and whats dante going to do while everyone is slowed? stick him with his sword a few times?

Thats what reaction time is all about, reactions. As I said, Dantes not going to be expecting hes going to have to react to Kain appearing out of thin air behind him and impaling him at speeds he cant react to. But not necesserily this move, not that he could ever predict the angle Kains going to come from.

Kain can mind control a mind....

*Shrug* Heres the fight, make of it what you will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQEBQV50s6A

By controlling the angle of the blade he could make it so the bullets rolled down the blade, its certainly possible and shows a familiarity with the blade that Kain at least has never done, prefering to use large baseball-bat swings like he's a crazy person. And Dante is more or less on his level of swordsmanship. I have no idea what the rest of the paragraph is supposed to mean, but judging by the fact the bullets don't do this, he must have not just been spinning it. The only possible way would be for him to be using pure skill and reactions. Seriously, drop the point.

No, it proves that he has that level of reactions. Not only have we shown numerous supporting examples of Dantes level of reaction speeds and superspeed, but every one of your objections have been put down. Dante>Kain, accept it.

Only becuase they're leaving after-images. If you watch again you'll see that there are numerous attacks happening at once, they are clearly moving much faster than humanly possible.

It doesn't matter how long Dante takes, to the toads he's moving faster than a blur. They are literally immobile in mid-air while Dante super-speeds his way through preperations. Kain would be similarly immobile.

Ad hominim (sp?) attacks will not work against me. Me not playing the games do not change the fact that I am right and you are wrong. And please. You are the most bias person I've ever met. Every Kain thread draws you, you always argue for him, even against opponents where he's clearly overmatched and he's in your sig. The only way you could be more bias is if you moved to Japan and married him. 🙄

Dante will most certainly be expecting, as he's in battle. He's not expecting a frickin' cake here, he's expecting an attack. Dante has reacted to a shot from the back before casually. On-screen proof that he could react to Kain teleporting behind him. And I imagine hacking him into cubes and drop-kicking the pieces miles a way would do. Or maybe just hack his head off. As Screampaste says, he only needs to incapacitate him.

You can't mind-control what has no mind.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Humans dont move at Dantes speeds :/ Good amount, theres no full prediction, there is always control no matter what. Jump back, predicting an opponents attack at that speed is still better then anything Kains done... so... either way Dante's is faster. You know less so id jump off that if I were you, doing 'anything' at that speed is faster then 0.5, 0.2 much faster.

Ahaha random opinions and deductions, thats pretty funny. Especially coming from you. Think ill answer in quick bursts: Yes it would, weight/speed/angle say so. Already proven, no. Heh, no. Kain + Raz = <100 tons = Fail here. You're in no position to 'let' me have the figures as you never had anything to take them away ^^ y'know, besides 'we' and several flawed ideas.

Central point is literally on one hand. 45 ton Raz, oh no `-` Lets try another one, holding back Nero's arm. Same arm that can lift huge bosses easily and lifting the Savior up. Seeing as youre 'given' to the figures, youve accept that Dante is stronger, why go on? No claims here, just proof. So now you admit to guess work, and think i know a bit more about the stance then you do. Things you have agreed to; it froze after contact and that he's stronger. Things that we all know; Dante has better reactions and is faster. So it is true that you want to believe it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dante>Kain, accept it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fair enough. So he has access to entities, forces and psychic waves not even in the VS? hmm...

Yeh, abilities of the mind. That does not give them defence against mind rapers.

Its still a mind, the machines may influence it but Kain just has to rape the mind and hes in, even if the nanites regain control. Kain still managed to MC.

Also Kain takes Nick furies blood.

He can't drain their blood. You first have to prove that he can drain someone with A-Bomb's level of durability, also bypass the many healing factors he has and if he can focus on the real one via Multiple Man's duplication.

Supposedly blood shower works on all enemies in the area, but that may be the one he uses through magic, in which case Fury is invulnerable to it. The other one Fury just may be able to right out stop before Kain even has to bypass durability.

Does it rip the blood from their bodies? Has it ever worked on someone with A-Bomb's durability? Saying it works on everyone is just stupid. I'm pretty sure the LoK developers weren't thinking of every other medium, game, comic, anime character and universe when they made it. There are characters it wouldn't work on unless it can be proved that it can bypass their level of durability. People like A-Bomb and Juggernaut would not have any blood drained or ripped from their body.

That was the large discussion. BT wants to say that durability is moot because Kain just magically makes a hole in the person's body which Kain pulls the blood through. Mind you, he does this without altering anything physically.

I said he's wrong.

Now factor in the durability and resistance to magic that Fury has and show me Kain doing this to someone that is comparable. Also tell me how this happens while Dark Kahn is hitting him with the Omega Beams or Omega Sanctions his ass?

BT thinks it bypasses durability, I lol'd. Kain's spells are all entirely featless, and he admits this, but claims the description of what they do allows them to bypass durability, despite this never being stated.

And then the guy with Wolverine's healing factor regens all of his blood, even if he loses all of it he still regens and he's still up, not knocked out or anything. Let's not forget how the Darkseid half is Sanctioning his ass off like he was Batman.

Wei, can you tell me if anyone Fury has access to can resist mind control? I thought Justice could, but I am not sure.

YouTube video @0:07-0:08.

Dante resisted a demon trying to take his soul out in the manga, and he can survive whilst losing LOTS of blood.

Deathstrike's mind is half machine, Goblin is batshit insane so it's much harder to control or even read him, was Colossus a part of all of it? I believe Justice does as well, I know you can't manipulate him if he duplicates himself, each copy of Multiple Man is an exact copy that after creation think for themselves unless the original calls them in. Once again Kain doesn't have all the time in the world to do this due to Dark Kahn being there.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Humans dont move at Dantes speeds :/ Good amount, theres no full prediction, there is always control no matter what. Jump back, predicting an opponents attack at that speed is still better then anything Kains done... so... either way Dante's is faster. You know less so id jump off that if I were you, doing 'anything' at that speed is faster then 0.5, 0.2 much faster.

Ahaha random opinions and deductions, thats pretty funny. Especially coming from you. Think ill answer in quick bursts: Yes it would, weight/speed/angle say so. Already proven, no. Heh, no. Kain + Raz = <100 tons = Fail here. You're in no position to 'let' me have the figures as you never had anything to take them away ^^ y'know, besides 'we' and several flawed ideas.

Central point is literally on one hand. 45 ton Raz, oh no `-` Lets try another one, holding back Nero's arm. Same arm that can lift huge bosses easily and lifting the Savior up. Seeing as youre 'given' to the figures, youve accept that Dante is stronger, why go on? No claims here, just proof. So now you admit to guess work, and think i know a bit more about the stance then you do. Things you have agreed to; it froze after contact and that he's stronger. Things that we all know; Dante has better reactions and is faster. So it is true that you want to believe it?

This is not even altered from the last point I replied to. You jsut copied and pasted your argument which is counted by prediction. Seems not, you are quite ignorant if you think humans gain superhuman reaction speed.

Ground not damaged, full extended arm just scraping Dantes sword. Saviour was not even fully hitting him and was frozen. No feat sorry.

Dantes shot in the head, beaten over and over by slow attacks from Vergil, beaten crapless by Nero and even seems to have some trouble avoiding the slow ass saviour. hes not got good reactions, he is faster but his reactions are poor ass and hes a sloppy fighter. Oh, and his pretty much physical based, Kain has a whole plethora of magical attacks and his PIS resistance. is higher than Dante can bring to bear on him. Dante lifts a what, bike that weighs a ton or more if I am being generous, Kain>100 tons. Speaks for itself.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, yeah. It's only fair since everyone in this thread is at their most powerful.

Wouldn't mental defense be one of the abilities of the mind? Yeah.

It is a mind that doesn't do anything. The Nanites were built to override the person's control of their own brain. Kain can control Fury all he wants, but the Nanites are the ones with the real control.

Good luck with that. Durability, immunity to magical attacks, and force fields. Even if he manages to do that, he just makes more with the healing factor he gets from (I think) Lady Deathstrike.

Arguable if allowing himself access to actual entities not in the vs is the same as allowing access to a power source though.

No, that takes special technique, infact mental defence is a unique power alltogether.

Override the persons control, that means Kain can still MC it, and then they have to override it again, over and over etc etc.

Prove he can survive all the blood in his body spraying towards Kains position? he would arguably cause more damage to himself if we assume the blood cant get to Kain. His heart will fail.

Originally posted by Nephthys
*Shrug* Heres the fight, make of it what you will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQEBQV50s6A

By controlling the angle of the blade he could make it so the bullets rolled down the blade, its certainly possible and shows a familiarity with the blade that Kain at least has never done, prefering to use large baseball-bat swings like he's a crazy person. And Dante is more or less on his level of swordsmanship. I have no idea what the rest of the paragraph is supposed to mean, but judging by the fact the bullets don't do this, he must have not just been spinning it. The only possible way would be for him to be using pure skill and reactions. Seriously, drop the point.

No, it proves that he has that level of reactions. Not only have we shown numerous supporting examples of Dantes level of reaction speeds and superspeed, but every one of your objections have been put down. Dante>Kain, accept it.

Only becuase they're leaving after-images. If you watch again you'll see that there are numerous attacks happening at once, they are clearly moving much faster than humanly possible.

It doesn't matter how long Dante takes, to the toads he's moving faster than a blur. They are literally immobile in mid-air while Dante super-speeds his way through preperations. Kain would be similarly immobile.

Ad hominim (sp?) attacks will not work against me. Me not playing the games do not change the fact that I am right and you are wrong. And please. You are the most bias person I've ever met. Every Kain thread draws you, you always argue for him, even against opponents where he's clearly overmatched and he's in your sig. The only way you could be more bias is if you moved to Japan and married him. 🙄

Dante will most certainly be expecting, as he's [b]in battle. He's not expecting a frickin' cake here, he's expecting an attack. Dante has reacted to a shot from the back before casually. On-screen proof that he could react to Kain teleporting behind him. And I imagine hacking him into cubes and drop-kicking the pieces miles a way would do. Or maybe just hack his head off. As Screampaste says, he only needs to incapacitate him.

You can't mind-control what has no mind. [/B]

What? no thats impossible, the bullets would fall off a sword so thin, theres no way any control of the blade could result in him lining them up so neatly. Dante being bested several times says otherwise. We can see him just spinning it, you assuming he was doing more than that is folly bias. So drop the point....

None of my objections have been put down, nice denile and assumption though. The guy gets shot in the head and then luckily takes a bullet in the teeth. Considering his mouth was hardly open its more likely. Nothing supports him being able to conciously catch a bullet in his teeth, slow jabs in the chest, impalements, beaten up by Nero and having a hard time escaping saviour say otherwise not to mension getting shot in the head beforehand, if he had reacted then and there then that would be reaction time, he didnt.

Their possibly moving slightly faster than they were when they were slowly moving consistently beforehand. We can track their swords with ease.

Seems not because we can see them moving slowly and hopping about as he slowly pulls out a chain gun and a rocket launcher. Its only once thieir in the air that they seem to freeze. Just looks like styalised graphic as Dante does not move any quicker than he does with the chain gun. No because Kain has better reactions than Dante who predicts, Kain can bring to bear all his senses in 0.2. Ive seen nothing from Dante to suggest hes faster than 0.5+, its more likely based on evidence Kain will be seen as a blur.

No it means you are utterly clueless and have less knowledge than I do by 4 games worth, you dont even know the main charatcer of one of the games for crying out loud. I am bias because I argue in all his threads? just shows how poor your understanding of what bias actually means is doesnt it really....almost as bad as your knowledge on DMC.

Hes reacting to someone a human would be able to sense behind them. Kains going to be appearing out of nowhere at speeds Dante will not be able to react to and whats more, a mere movement of the head is not going to dodge a sword. Kains got mist form to escape physical harm and Kains taken more punishment in a fraction of a square inch on his body than Dante can dish out in a slash.

It does have a mind.....nick fury is not a nanite, he just so happens to have nanites that can override his mind.

Originally posted by iChaos
YouTube video @0:07-0:08.

Dante resisted a demon trying to take his soul out in the manga, and he can survive whilst losing LOTS of blood.

He seemed to react to sound and movement, as you can see his eye look behind him before the strike even lands. Kains not going to making sound as hes going to appear out of thin air.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Now factor in the durability and resistance to magic that Fury has and show me Kain doing this to someone that is comparable. Also tell me how this happens while Dark Kahn is hitting him with the Omega Beams or Omega Sanctions his ass?

Durabiliy is moot and is not mentioned, even if it was enough to stop blood from getting to Kain, the guy still dies unless hes had all the blood in his body spraying inside all his organs before?

resistance to magic, whats he resisted exactly? physical or elemetnal blasts? I would like to see him reisst something alike to blood shower please.

Dark Kahn has created omega beams? if so then yes, Kain does become a spirit as he cannot face an omega beam.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He can't drain their blood. You first have to prove that he can drain someone with A-Bomb's level of durability, also bypass the many healing factors he has and if he can focus on the real one via Multiple Man's duplication.

If he cant drain them based on your fallacious assertion that durability means anything in this spells parameters then he dies of heart and blood disruption and his heart bursts. Killing him instantly. Whats he got to survive? and Blood shower is an AOE, not single target.

Becoming an spirit didn't save countless DC characters that fell victim to Darksied.

Originally posted by Burning thought

-,- For your sake ill repeat then. Right, youre thinking that fast attacks are all about prediction and not anything else, sums up to the pros guessing whats coming at them. And the only reason you think this is due to a wiki page telling you the average break time is 0.5. Then you go on to saying even a master reacts in 0.5 then makes his planned move. Wrong. It takes the brain about 0.2 to perceive and lets say for a full punch, add 0.25 to strike. (fastest punch of the average mook) From nothing to hitting the opponent in under 0.5, your supposed time it takes to only react. http://noolmusic.com/myspace_videos/fight_science_reaction_time_clip.php To note; he has perceived and decided what he's going to do by 0.1 and strikes at 0.18. So yeah, the average persons reaction is 0.2, average pro/master is 0.1, and supernatural bullet-timers? Thats right.

Ground was damaged wow how did you not see that.. Pushed him back and down, and that means -> If he didnt block he would be flat. Was a full hit as anyone who knows about punching will tell you. Ta-da~
Yep thats right, he's Dante. Remember that psych talk we had about him? When he's cocky or playing around he gets hit, when hes serious eg battle with Mundas.. no chance. Kain wont even get past his aura 😛 Yes, Dantes the sloppy fighter here, hey lets look at Kains fighting feats. Or does he even have any, as from what ive seen he looks standard. Featless magic is what it says on the tin. Dantes best is lifting a 'generously' 1ton bike? Lets put that to the test. The most a human can lift so far is around 1.5 tons, (if this source is correct about powerlifting) so what you're saying is that the strongest human can stop the Saviors punch and push it off him, oh, if he has a sword between them? :/ Put that 1.5 tonner in front of a 1 ton normal car at 60 mph (less speed and weight of the punch) and ask him to stop it. He'd get killed. Dante did stop it, and with one hand no less.

-Kains fastest movement is a stinger like move (25m/s), which is Dantes common attack which may i add isnt even a speed feat as its a thrust/strike (feet arnt moveing).
Dante fights at pauseintime speeds, created heat by running and appeared behind Nero <- 50m/s
-Kains reaction time 'provided by youself' comes from appearing for 0.2/0.3seconds to slash and you gave him 0.2, eg 'human reactions'.
Dante... fights at pauseintime speeds, caught a bullet between his teeth, dodged a bullet that gave him 0.01 to evade.
-Kains best strength feat is... maybe being stronger then Raz. Typical. Raz' best feat is lifting a 45ton block with some degree of effort (pushing 90tons doesnt mean he can lift that, which is what we are after.)
Dante stopped the Savioirs punch with one hand, followed by pushing the Savior off him again with one hand, held back Nero's DB thats strong enough to lift the Savior.

Physics tells us Dante took almost all of the force from the punch = stronger. Maths and gravity tell us he can move at pauseintime speeds = faster. Fight science tells us that Dante has better reactions = ....better reactions. Logic tells us that Dante wins = Dante wins. KMC tells us that Kratos, Dante and Alex 'together' = spite.
Forced to ask again, do you just want Kain to win or do you truly believe that he will?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
And then the guy with Wolverine's healing factor regens all of his blood, even if he loses all of it he still regens and he's still up, not knocked out or anything.

Why didn't I think of that, good point 👆

Note: Arkham's attack from behind was silent. Nor is there any 'luck' in catching a bullet in your teeth .__.

Originally posted by BloodRain
-,- For your sake ill repeat then. Right, youre thinking that fast attacks are all about prediction and not anything else, sums up to the pros guessing whats coming at them. And the only reason you think this is due to a wiki page telling you the average break time is 0.5. Then you go on to saying even a master reacts in 0.5 then makes his planned move. Wrong. It takes the brain about 0.2 to perceive and lets say for a full punch, add 0.25 to strike. (fastest punch of the average mook) From nothing to hitting the opponent in under 0.5, your supposed time it takes to only react. http://noolmusic.com/myspace_videos/fight_science_reaction_time_clip.php To note; he has perceived and decided what he's going to do by 0.1 and strikes at 0.18. So yeah, the average persons reaction is 0.2, average pro/master is 0.1, and supernatural bullet-timers? Thats right.

Ground was damaged wow how did you not see that.. Pushed him back and down, and that means -> If he didnt block he would be flat. Was a full hit as anyone who knows about punching will tell you. Ta-da~
Yep thats right, he's Dante. Remember that psych talk we had about him? When he's cocky or playing around he gets hit, when hes serious eg battle with Mundas.. no chance. Kain wont even get past his aura 😛 Yes, Dantes the sloppy fighter here, hey lets look at Kains fighting feats. Or does he even have any, as from what ive seen he looks standard. Featless magic is what it says on the tin. Dantes best is lifting a 'generously' 1ton bike? Lets put that to the test. The most a human can lift so far is around 1.5 tons, (if this source is correct about powerlifting) so what you're saying is that the strongest human can stop the Saviors punch and push it off him, oh, if he has a sword between them? :/ Put that 1.5 tonner in front of a 1 ton normal car at 60 mph (less speed and weight of the punch) and ask him to stop it. He'd get killed. Dante did stop it, and with one hand no less.

-Kains fastest movement is a stinger like move (25m/s), which is Dantes common attack which may i add isnt even a speed feat as its a thrust/strike (feet arnt moveing).
Dante fights at pauseintime speeds, created heat by running and appeared behind Nero <- 50m/s
-Kains reaction time 'provided by youself' comes from appearing for 0.2/0.3seconds to slash and you gave him 0.2, eg 'human reactions'.
Dante... fights at pauseintime speeds, caught a bullet between his teeth, dodged a bullet that gave him 0.01 to evade.
-Kains best strength feat is... maybe being stronger then Raz. Typical. Raz' best feat is lifting a 45ton block with some degree of effort (pushing 90tons doesnt mean he can lift that, which is what we are after.)
Dante stopped the Savioirs punch with one hand, followed by pushing the Savior off him again with one hand, held back Nero's DB thats strong enough to lift the Savior.

Physics tells us Dante took almost all of the force from the punch = stronger. Maths and gravity tell us he can move at pauseintime speeds = faster. Fight science tells us that Dante has better reactions = ....better reactions. Logic tells us that Dante wins = Dante wins. KMC tells us that Kratos, Dante and Alex 'together' = spite.
Forced to ask again, do you just want Kain to win or do you truly believe that he will?

Why didn't I think of that, good point 👆

Note: Arkham's attack from behind was silent. Nor is there any 'luck' in catching a bullet in your teeth .__.

No, fast reactions are in martial arts, fencing and in Dantes fights, any fighter worth his salt can predict, and depending on their skill predict well what angle an opponent will attack at when their in full view (most human fights). And no the average is 0.5 to even percieve. 0.3 is stimulas to movement without thought. Hes not decided, only percieved and he already knows what to hit and he already knows one of the lights are going to blink on. Thats not off the bat reaction time.

And supernatural bulletimers without feats are at 0.5 still.

Yes it was, barely. It was damaged as if about 10/20 tons hit it. And no, it was just a fully extended arm hardly hitting him, fortunatley for him it froze before it pushed its weight down.

Thats a pretty big assumption, thats hes slower and weak all those times hes been hit based on his psych. Nah, happens too often. Draining blood and taking souls is a feat. Its just in the form of text. Dante didnt stop anything, Saviour froze as we see him frozen as the camera pans out. Judging by the minimal damage on the ground and how Saviours arm is fully extended yet nowhere near crushing Dante into the ground proves that even frozen he never hits Dante.

Its not Dantes common attack ,its a special move more advanced than his typical slashes. Nah, Dante fights at pretty normal speeds, then he quickens a little only for a slower Vergil to beat on him, a slow saviour to give him some problems, a slow Nero to beat the hell out of him and for lady to shoot him in the head.

Pushing 100 tonnes means that he could put similiar pressure if he pushes against Kain. Lifting is unimportant in a punch or push when the feat itself is a push/punch.

False, i will never agree to your assumptions on Saviour being stopped by Dante, especially not when we see him frozen as the camera pans out and hardly any damage on the ground.

He took enough force to create a few cracks in the ground, at those speeds thats less than about 50 tons I would say, certainly not 2000. No, maths and gravity tell us he is able to move at fast speeds but a ton of feats and maths and gravity tell us he cant react at them. And fight science tells us a martial arts master with a lot of training can move and react fast enough to predictable lights, again feats show us Dante is incapable against not only much slower opponents, bullets and slow giants that even kratos could probably avoid with more efficency but gets beaten down by them.

logc tells us Dante cannot harm Kain, and if he attempts Kain cna turn to mist and destroy him with magic. I wouldnt debate this if I didnt know Kain would win.