Kain vs Team

Originally posted by Burning thought
He seemed to react to sound and movement, as you can see his eye look behind him before the strike even lands. Kains not going to making sound as hes going to appear out of thin air.

Durabiliy is moot and is not mentioned, even if it was enough to stop blood from getting to Kain, the guy still dies unless hes had all the blood in his body spraying inside all his organs before?

resistance to magic, whats he resisted exactly? physical or elemetnal blasts? I would like to see him reisst something alike to blood shower please.

Dark Kahn has created omega beams? if so then yes, Kain does become a spirit as he cannot face an omega beam.

If he cant drain them based on your fallacious assertion that durability means anything in this spells parameters then he dies of heart and blood disruption and his heart bursts. Killing him instantly. Whats he got to survive? and Blood shower is an AOE, not single target.

Wolverine has survived nukes and stood as nothing but a skeleton. He can survive without organs and still move. Fury has Wolverine's healing factor. Disrupting his blood won't do a thing but piss him off.

Moonstone is immune to magic, I would have to search for things in her comics but she's immune to magic so yeah...can you show a blood shower working on someone that's on her level or Fury's level?

Spirit Kain still gets hit by the beams. Darkseid is leagues above Kain.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Deathstrike's mind is half machine, Goblin is batshit insane so it's much harder to control or even read him, was Colossus a part of all of it? I believe Justice does as well, I know you can't manipulate him if he duplicates himself, each copy of Multiple Man is an exact copy that after creation think for themselves unless the original calls them in. Once again Kain doesn't have all the time in the world to do this due to Dark Kahn being there.

Yes, Colossus was a part of it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Arguable if allowing himself access to actual entities not in the vs is the same as allowing access to a power source though.

No, that takes special technique, infact mental defence is a unique power alltogether.

Override the persons control, that means Kain can still MC it, and then they have to override it again, over and over etc etc.

Prove he can survive all the blood in his body spraying towards Kains position? he would arguably cause more damage to himself if we assume the blood cant get to Kain. His heart will fail.

He's not accessing people,he is accessing other nanites which by the way are his power source.

Yeah, because mental defense was totally specified as a unique power on it's own in every other fiction ever, as well. You are reaching. But damn, you must be Mr. Fantastic to stretch that far.

They override it naturally. It's like, what they do. Mind control is completely useless, especially due to things like Multiple man and Justice in addition to the Nanites.

I don't have to. Multiple man says hi, Moonstone sends her greetings, and healing factor would like to wish you a Merry Christmas.

If there are nanites in his blood, wouldn't that kill Kain if he tries to drink it?

I'm not familiar with the character.

They aren't in the blood, they inject them and they work with the nervous system and the brain. That's how they were used to control villains.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, fast reactions are in martial arts, fencing and in Dantes fights, any fighter worth his salt can predict, and depending on their skill predict well what angle an opponent will attack at when their in full view (most human fights). And no the average is 0.5 to even percieve. 0.3 is stimulas to movement without thought. Hes not decided, only percieved and he already knows what to hit and he already knows one of the lights are going to blink on. Thats not off the bat reaction time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes it was, barely. It was damaged as if about 10/20 tons hit it. And no, it was just a fully extended arm hardly hitting him, fortunatley for him it froze before it pushed its weight down.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats a pretty big assumption, thats hes slower and weak all those times hes been hit based on his psych. Nah, happens too often. Draining blood and taking souls is a feat. Its just in the form of text. Dante didnt stop anything, Saviour froze as we see him frozen as the camera pans out. Judging by the minimal damage on the ground and how Saviours arm is fully extended yet nowhere near crushing Dante into the ground proves that even frozen he never hits Dante.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not Dantes common attack ,its a special move more advanced than his typical slashes. Nah, Dante fights at pretty normal speeds, then he quickens a little only for a slower Vergil to beat on him, a slow saviour to give him some problems, a slow Nero to beat the hell out of him and for lady to shoot him in the head.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Pushing 100 tonnes means that he could put similiar pressure if he pushes against Kain. Lifting is unimportant in a punch or push when the feat itself is a push/punch.

Originally posted by Burning thought
False, i will never agree to your assumptions on Saviour being stopped by Dante, especially not when we see him frozen as the camera pans out and hardly any damage on the ground.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He took enough force to create a few cracks in the ground, at those speeds thats less than about 50 tons I would say, certainly not 2000. No, maths and gravity tell us he is able to move at fast speeds but a ton of feats and maths and gravity tell us he cant react at them. And fight science tells us a martial arts master with a lot of training can move and react fast enough to predictable lights, again feats show us Dante is incapable against not only much slower opponents, bullets and slow giants that even kratos could probably avoid with more efficency but gets beaten down by them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
logc tells us Dante cannot harm Kain, and if he attempts Kain cna turn to mist and destroy him with magic. I wouldnt debate this if I didnt know Kain would win.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He seemed to react to sound and movement, as you can see his eye look behind him before the strike even lands. Kains not going to making sound as hes going to appear out of thin air.

How do you know he made sound? And Kain is unlikely to outright teleport behind Dante and impale him. Still, he could've came from anywhere. And he could react to ANY of Kain's attacks. And he still dodged a bullet when Lady shot his head. And no, I don't recall any footsteps. Also, you do realize that when Vergil attacks, it's invisible to the human eye, right?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Fight science says that its 0.2 for a mook, 0.1 for a pro. Can not disagree. Wiki page saying 0.5 for breaking speeds, while on another page its says 0.19 for college students <<<<< Fight science that mains in how they 'react in a fight' ie what they're in now.

Damage matches the amount that would be expelled after going through Dante. Not 10 tons.. Pushed him back and down, evident in the scene, position of the arm says full contact, full force punch.

Actually thats precisely what psych says, thats why on tv etc the cocky person is always easier to hit then the stoic. That effect weak enemies. Youve already admitted that it hit him then froze... so.. its done.

Its the first move he learns, pretty basic for him. Trying to downplay an obvious feat for Kains sake? Tut tut. Hah Savior gave him no problems, what were you watching? Face it, Kain has [b]nothing on Dantes speed.

Fact: Kain is a 50 tonner. Thats what the proof says. To compare one to another here we go by what they can hold up, push 90 but lift 45.

You've already agreed that it stopped after contact, its over. The clip is the evidence.

By your scientific random guess? Holds no water. See, now youre fighting with fight science. Damn...

Mist < Cerberus/Yamato. To me you want to win the match so you will go to extremes to attempt to discredit obvious feats even it the laws of the universe are against you. 😐
From what you say:
-Fight science is wrong
-Dante has human reaction times even after seeing him fight at pauseintime speed and evading a bullet in 0.01 seconds.
-2000tons pressing down in a punch that went 80m/s, you were almost saying a 1ton person could pull it off but went up to <50tons. All that = 50 tons? No.
-Even though we see Dante stopping the Savior and pushing it back off with one hand, you ignore it based of trying to find a fault. Eg, ''about 10/20 tons'' ''less then 50 tons'' when the fist alone is well over 50 tons. Or ''he never hits Dante'' to ''Yes it was, barely.'' Random claims that contradict each other. Again already said that it froze after contact, another contradiction.
-And after watching him fight at pauseintime speeds, you still try to ignore it. Can tell you want to kill this as you give excuses like 'some unknown energy stopped it in place' or flat out ignore it and say its not real as he's been hit by slower things.
-Lastly youre aloud to give him made up feats like being faster then human RT for teleporting and regen from mist by only guessing but when we see Dante actually do the feats, they have to be wrong.
At first glance Dante wins, when you look at them under the microscope Dante still wins. When you step back and see Kratos and Alex standing there, no question about it. [/B]

Must be reaction, not action as my 5 scientific sources say 0.5 for perception. 0.18 for a guy to react to lights that he knows are coming. So no, you cant disagree. It says 0.19 for a stimulas to begin.

Make up your mind, one minute your saying hardly any force goes through Dantes sword despite its large surface area and that energy travels and now your saying Dante somehow absorbs it all? lol.....poor science knowledge and no, Dante even if he did absorb the force would still be pushed down into the dirt. hardly any damage was made, next to nothing. Position of arm says hardly any contact at all, since its fully extended and only just touching Dantes sword.

Nah, assumption and you saying "zomg he only didz it coz he woz not going all out!" in every fight is pretty poor.

Kains reactions and consistency in fighting is>>>Dante who flounders in so many fights I am tired of listing them yet you whine "zomg butz he can predict bullet aims!!!"

Dante never held up Saviour. And thats a flawed comparison as their not going to be using the same strength they do lifting as they do in a push, swing or punch. Pushing is more alike to all of those things.

No, I agree it scraped Dante and the scrape allowed perhaps a 10/20 tonnes to pass through Dante, hence the light damage to the ground.

No, your overhyping fight science 🙄 you want it to help your argument. It doesnt really....just proves that Kain at 0.2 speeds can strike at not so predictable targets.

Both are useless and Kain can go in and out of mist at will, Dante<<most of Kains spells. Nah, I think you want to win the match so you want to discredit me by claiming I disagreeing with a source that does not agree with your daft claims.
-Nah your wrong, fight sciecne is fine. Although your claiming 5 wiki articles linked to many experiments are wrong.
-He hardly evaded a bullet, he moved his neck and any man would know hse was there let alone a half devil. Pausetime speed is an overexagerated action sequence, we see him move slowly so many other times in canon cutscenes and fights it sort of knocks out the "pausetime" moments.
-None of that is true, Saviour swings, he doesnt crush so all this 2k ton BS is out the window, especially with the fact it only scrapes Dante and causes tiny damage to the ground, which makes sense because it froze before crushing him.
-He doesnt push much off at all, its already frozen in the air, technically its not working against gravity and its propped up.
-Hes been hit by a huge number of slower things and has some sloppy fight showings with Verigl and Nero. If he could react to bullets he would never have been shot in the head by lady.
-nah Kain is 0.2 RT because he can make decisions and strike in that time, the teleport just allows him to cut out movement and has nothing to do with the RT. We dont see him do the feats, we see him floundering about, getting beaten easily by slow moves, shown him as a sloppy fighter and impaled by almost every weapon that hits him.

Kains more durable, better RT, a vast number of powers and teleportation make him impossible for Dante to defeat. The other two are even less of a factor.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

He's not accessing people,he is accessing other nanites which by the way are his power source.

Yeah, because mental defense was totally specified as a unique power on it's own in every other fiction ever, as well. You are reaching. But damn, you must be Mr. Fantastic to stretch that far.

They override it naturally. It's like, what they do. Mind control is completely useless, especially due to things like Multiple man and Justice in addition to the Nanites.

I don't have to. Multiple man says hi, Moonstone sends her greetings, and healing factor would like to wish you a Merry Christmas.

Every other fiction? so your implying that its specified that anyone with any mental efficency can resist mind control when this TK person is concerned? and I am not a "mr", I am just "fantastic" 😉 although unfortunaltey I cant stretch 🙁

If he can mind control one of them then he could make that one mutliply and kill the others. Depends how long it takes for him to mulitply and do other things.

only wolverines healing factor is superior here if he can really stand with nothing but a fleshless,organless skeleton.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Wolverine has survived nukes and stood as nothing but a skeleton. He can survive without organs and still move. Fury has Wolverine's healing factor. Disrupting his blood won't do a thing but piss him off.

Moonstone is immune to magic, I would have to search for things in her comics but she's immune to magic so yeah...can you show a blood shower working on someone that's on her level or Fury's level?

Spirit Kain still gets hit by the beams. Darkseid is leagues above Kain.

Well they better hope Kain never gets any of that blood.

I dont know her level so I couldnt say. If shes got resistance to that kind of magic then I would say she could resist it.

Darksied is, not necesserily Dark Khan. Just because hes a merge does not mean he has all the power of both.

I am not a "mr", I am just "fantastic" 😉 although unfortunaltey I cant stretch 🙁

Originally posted by Burning thought
Must be reaction, not action as my 5 scientific sources say 0.5 for perception. 0.18 for a guy to react to lights that he knows are coming. So no, you cant disagree. It says 0.19 for a stimulas to begin.

Make up your mind, one minute your saying hardly any force goes through Dantes sword despite its large surface area and that energy travels and now your saying Dante somehow absorbs it all? lol.....poor science knowledge and no, Dante even if he did absorb the force would still be pushed down into the dirt. hardly any damage was made, next to nothing. Position of arm says hardly any contact at all, since its fully extended and only just touching Dantes sword.

Nah, assumption and you saying "zomg he only didz it coz he woz not going all out!" in every fight is pretty poor.

Kains reactions and consistency in fighting is>>>Dante who flounders in so many fights I am tired of listing them yet you whine "zomg butz he can predict bullet aims!!!"

Dante never held up Saviour. And thats a flawed comparison as their not going to be using the same strength they do lifting as they do in a push, swing or punch. Pushing is more alike to all of those things.

No, I agree it scraped Dante and the scrape allowed perhaps a 10/20 tonnes to pass through Dante, hence the light damage to the ground.

No, your overhyping fight science 🙄 you want it to help your argument. It doesnt really....just proves that Kain at 0.2 speeds can strike at not so predictable targets.

Both are useless and Kain can go in and out of mist at will, Dante<<most of Kains spells. Nah, I think you want to win the match so you want to discredit me by claiming I disagreeing with a source that does not agree with your daft claims.
-Nah your wrong, fight sciecne is fine. Although your claiming 5 wiki articles linked to many experiments are wrong.
-He hardly evaded a bullet, he moved his neck and any man would know hse was there let alone a half devil. Pausetime speed is an overexagerated action sequence, we see him move slowly so many other times in canon cutscenes and fights it sort of knocks out the "pausetime" moments.
-None of that is true, Saviour swings, he doesnt crush so all this 2k ton BS is out the window, especially with the fact it only scrapes Dante and causes tiny damage to the ground, which makes sense because it froze before crushing him.
-He doesnt push much off at all, its already frozen in the air, technically its not working against gravity and its propped up.
-Hes been hit by a huge number of slower things and has some sloppy fight showings with Verigl and Nero. If he could react to bullets he would never have been shot in the head by lady.
-nah Kain is 0.2 RT because he can make decisions and strike in that time, the teleport just allows him to cut out movement and has nothing to do with the RT. We dont see him do the feats, we see him floundering about, getting beaten easily by slow moves, shown him as a sloppy fighter and impaled by almost every weapon that hits him.

Kains more durable, better RT, a vast number of powers and teleportation make him impossible for Dante to defeat. The other two are even less of a factor.

Every other fiction? so your implying that its specified that anyone with any mental efficency can resist mind control when this TK person is concerned? and I am not a "mr", I am just "fantastic" 😉 although unfortunaltey I cant stretch 🙁

If he can mind control one of them then he could make that one mutliply and kill the others. Depends how long it takes for him to mulitply and do other things.

only wolverines healing factor is superior here if he can really stand with nothing but a fleshless,organless skeleton.

Well they better hope Kain never gets any of that blood.

I dont know her level so I couldnt say. If shes got resistance to that kind of magic then I would say she could resist it.

Darksied is, not necesserily Dark Khan. Just because hes a merge does not mean he has all the power of both.

Nope! You do not understand Multiple Man, only the original can will other duplicates. He can get the blood, nothing is going to put him down.

She's immune, Marvel magic shits on LoK magic.

Darkseid has the Omega Effect in the game, it's his trademark ability. Dark Kahn can use it too.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Every other fiction? so your implying that its specified that anyone with any mental efficency can resist mind control when this TK person is concerned? and I am not a "mr", I am just "fantastic" 😉 although unfortunaltey I cant stretch 🙁

If he can mind control one of them then he could make that one mutliply and kill the others. Depends how long it takes for him to mulitply and do other things.

only wolverines healing factor is superior here if he can really stand with nothing but a fleshless,organless skeleton.

It is understood. To invade someone's mind allows the possibility to be kicked out if you are not strong enough. Justice is a telekinetic, his powers are used through his mind, naturally creating a powerful one. And even some non-psychic characters have demonstrated an ability to notice their mind was being invaded.

It won't do any good. Each duplicate is it's own thinking person, he can command it to make duplicates, but it won't grant him control over it's duplicates. The original may also be the only one who can make duplicates.

Blood Shower is a spell. Fury is immune to magical attacks. The other blood drain is surely singular, am I correct?

Originally posted by Burning thought

Oh for the love of... you don't get it at all. Like you know science any way, and why wasn't he hammered into the ground lie a nail? Because he held it up. Contradiction, saying it froze after then that it hardly made contact. Falling apart here. Heh position and type of punch say you're wrong.

Man I gotta cut back on putting all those 'z''s in my words. Psych isn't an assumption :/ Oh do go on and show these constant feats of Kains reactions. Hm when was the last time you 'predicted' a bullet fired from behind you? I didn't think so.

This is mirroring what I said before, i remember that you agreed that base OoT Link can lift 50 as he pushed a 100 ton block and that that is his strength. Now your against this? Meh.

Stopping after contact means it could not have scraped, add that scraping/barely touching would cause no damage to the ground.

Over-hyping? Like your car breaking speeds? Fight science just showed us the reaction times, and in a fight situation no less. And you're against this, how?

Can freeze him in a block of ice even mist form and the dimension cutter will work too. Yeah I want to win (in fact anyone who hasn't voted for Kain has already won) but im not going to go and pretend the oppositions feats dont happen ~___~ who wants to win that badly? Oh and im not trying to discredit you, just your actions.
-Wouldn't mind seeing these 5 pages, thought 'reaction time' on wiki says 0.19 and Fight science says about 0.2.
-Its not humanly possibly to do that. Even if Lady announced ''Hey Dante! Don't move, im gonna shoot you.'' so he knew see was even going to shoot he 'still' wouldn't be able to do that with human reactions ect No sound, how would any man know she was there >_> Yes we see him moving slower like we see Kratos lifting light things and Samus at human speeds, doesn't take away there better feats. Fact is we see it, therefore it was done. Cutscenes don't lie.
-Ah but it is. Nope you've already admitted that it froze after, not letting you contradict yourself again. 2k aint going no where just because you say 'it doesn't crush'
-Proof it wasn't frozen in the air, when he pushed it off hit fell back to the ground, which wouldnt happen it it was frozen in the air.
-And besides the one instant how many were dangerous to Dante? But he 'can' get shot by bullets, he has two options; use his amazing speed to dodge something or take it as there will be no negative consequence for him. You have the power to take bullets like a summer breeze, use it. Cutscenes don't lie, pauseintime speed is his feat.
-Ok he has human RT, big deal. Ohh so we don't see him stop the Savior, push it off, hold back Nero's DB, move at pauseintime speeds with Virgil and Alastor, evade Dagon and Nero faster then the eye can comprehend, catch a bullet in his teeth, evade a bullet 0.01 and run fast enough to create heat. Lets look at Kains 'consistency'; He has human RT and managed to overpower Raz, attack speed is human, movement speed is human. He has less consistency to none.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Scientific sources from breaking >>>>> scientific sources about fighting. Which is more relevant? 0.1 the mind tells the body to act, 0.08 later its ended.

Oh for the love of... you don't get it at all. Like you know science any way, and why wasn't he hammered into the ground lie a nail? Because he held it up. Contradiction, saying it froze after then that it hardly made contact. Falling apart here. Heh position and type of punch say you're wrong.

Man I gotta cut back on putting all those 'z''s in my words. Psych isn't an assumption :/ Oh do go on and show these constant feats of Kains reactions. Hm when was the last time you 'predicted' a bullet fired from behind you? I didn't think so.

This is mirroring what I said before, i remember that you agreed that base OoT Link can lift 50 as he pushed a 100 ton block and that that is his strength. Now your against this? Meh.

Stopping after contact means it could not have scraped, add that scraping/barely touching would cause no damage to the ground.

Over-hyping? Like your car breaking speeds? Fight science just showed us the reaction times, and in a fight situation no less. And you're against this, how?

Can freeze him in a block of ice even mist form and the dimension cutter will work too. Yeah I want to win (in fact anyone who hasn't voted for Kain has already won) but im not going to go and pretend the oppositions feats dont happen ~___~ who wants to win that badly? Oh and im not trying to discredit you, just your actions.
-Wouldn't mind seeing these 5 pages, thought 'reaction time' on wiki says 0.19 and Fight science says about 0.2.
-Its not humanly possibly to do that. Even if Lady announced ''Hey Dante! Don't move, im gonna shoot you.'' so he knew see was even going to shoot he 'still' wouldn't be able to do that with human reactions ect No sound, how would any man know she was there >_> Yes we see him moving slower like we see Kratos lifting light things and Samus at human speeds, doesn't take away there better feats. Fact is we see it, therefore it was done. Cutscenes don't lie.
-Ah but it is. Nope you've already admitted that it froze after, not letting you contradict yourself again. 2k aint going no where just because you say 'it doesn't crush'
-Proof it wasn't frozen in the air, when he pushed it off hit fell back to the ground, which wouldnt happen it it was frozen in the air.
-And besides the one instant how many were dangerous to Dante? But he 'can' get shot by bullets, he has two options; use his amazing speed to dodge something or take it as there will be no negative consequence for him. You have the power to take bullets like a summer breeze, use it. Cutscenes don't lie, pauseintime speed is his feat.
-Ok he has human RT, big deal. Ohh so we don't see him stop the Savior, push it off, hold back Nero's DB, move at pauseintime speeds with Virgil and Alastor, evade Dagon and Nero faster then the eye can comprehend, catch a bullet in his teeth, evade a bullet 0.01 and run fast enough to create heat. Lets look at Kains 'consistency'; He has human RT and managed to overpower Raz, attack speed is human, movement speed is human. He has less consistency to none.

Theres no >>> here, only the fact I have more sources and that your own source gives a predicted fighting regime where a guy only has to hit 4 blinking lights that dont move. Even my source points out that percieving stationary things is easier. And thats for a martial artist as well, not for Dante, Dante has no training of the sort.

He never held it up and if he held it, the ground wouldnt be able to hold his weight as the energy according to you stops at Dante (it wouldnt). And no, position says hes hardly on top of Dante even at full extended arm, looks like he hardly scraped Dante before he lost all momentum and froze.

Its an assumption on every event hes lost in. And its a BS reason for all his bad showings. Thats a stupid question as I dont think I have ever been fired on at all, ive never been shot at all either.....I should like to think I could predict a young women whos just walked up behind me, especially if I am supposed to have even better senses than a human. You see similiar things in most fictions involving guns, transporter, James bonde and countless video games have people predicting a shot behind them and moving.

He can lift 50 ton sure, if he can push 100 then any feat involving a motion like a punch or a swing or ofc a push, the pushing is his strength. If hes going to lift something then sure, we use that.

Ofc it could have scraped, especially when it stops almost instantly when Saviour is frozen. That kind of momentum from such a heavy object should have kept it going but the fact it froze means it stopped just shy of crushing Dante, fortunaltey it only scraped hence why the ground isnt damaged and Dante is not even pushed into the gravel. And I lold, scraping from 2000 tonnes like you belive it is would certainly at those speeds hit the ground and Dante with a good amount of force.

Overhyping you are, taking whats a martial artist reacting to lights in predictable areas and assuming A: Dante has martial arts techinque and B: kains going to be a stationary target that Dante just knows is going to appear in front of him to be hit.

No it cant, its a short range nun-chuck weapon and since when has it frozen mist? I dont emember this. And "dimension cutter" has resulted to just cutting objects. lol no, how have they already won? because you think I am wrong or based on a appeal to popularity fallacy? based on the amount of those the oppoistion has made against me your credability in a real argument would have kicked you from the argument, the fallacies are piled too high.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_time
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_Box
-The answerbag perception and Car driving school in the other thread.
-yes he would, lol, she would get "shoot" off and he would have dodged her aim.
-Cutscenes dont but you do, your bias for Dante also makes you forget his large majority of slow feats and skills and Kratos has pretty consistent high strength in cutscenes.
-Thats because he unbalanced it, the whole of Saviour was still propped up and was not fighting against gravity.
-Pausetime is a action animation for lulz which is contradicted by a vast number of actual storyline feats or poor showings. Its even contradicted by the same video unless apprently he can only move quickly when his opponents are in the air.
-Humans could not do that, even your trained martial artist takes that long to react to predictable and consistent flashing lights, and he has already percieved the objects he has to hit. Kain disapears and can appear anywhere within the fight. Dante at 0.5 cannot hit at 0.2. No we dont see him push off the saviours weight only a loose frozen Saviour. Anyone would catch a bullet on their teeth if their mouth was more or less closed and their bones were durable. lol everyone creates heat when they run. Dantes reaction time is arguably below human as he was beaten by blows under 0.2 consistently, predictable ones that dont even require reaction time.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It is understood. To invade someone's mind allows the possibility to be kicked out if you are not strong enough. Justice is a telekinetic, his powers are used through his mind, naturally creating a powerful one. And even some non-psychic characters have demonstrated an ability to notice their mind was being invaded.

It won't do any good. Each duplicate is it's own thinking person, he can command it to make duplicates, but it won't grant him control over it's duplicates. The original may also be the only one who can make duplicates.

Blood Shower is a spell. Fury is immune to magical attacks. The other blood drain is surely singular, am I correct?

Kicked out if the opponent has the resistances and your not strong enough. Magneto has incredible mental powers to create magnetic fields, he still has to wear a specially designed helmet to stop Xaviour. So no, having Tk is not enough of a techinque to suddenly avoid mind control, rarely has in games.

If the original is the one who amkes duplicates and nanites according to your video dont take over immediatley (assuming they do anyway, their robots so chances are their waiting for a specific mental order) then Kain has plenty of time to screw fury.

Yeh, it can hit more than one target although I cant prove it yet, cant find a vid of it happening meh. Even if one target, Kain destroying the original would give him the win.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Nope! You do not understand Multiple Man, only the original can will other duplicates. He can get the blood, nothing is going to put him down.

She's immune, Marvel magic shits on LoK magic.

Darkseid has the Omega Effect in the game, it's his trademark ability. Dark Kahn can use it too.

If Kain gets the blood, he will get most of hte physical/mental powers.

Yeh but if shes not taken that much magic then its useless to claim thus. "magic immunity" is a no limit fallacy in this case, unless your claiming Living tribunal couldnt create magic enough to harm her.

Darksied, but not necesserily Dark Kahn? can you show me Kahn doing this plz?

No it cant, its a short range nun-chuck weapon and since when has it frozen mist?

lol no, how have they already won? because you think I am wrong or based on a appeal to popularity fallacy?

the fallacies are piled too high.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Cause freezing water vapour is so difficult. He made no appeal to popularity fallacy, and stop using that as a crutch. Fact is, Kain wouldn't even make it off the set of the view, and the options to each character in this thread for beating Kain and his featless magic are near endless. The entire thread reeks of humour, and what makes it funniest is you're actually trying to debate in Kain's favour, in the face of obvious spite.

You have no room to accuse anyone of piling up fallacies.

I dont know, I have never tried freezing mist....

He did, you obviously dont know what one is. And the options for them is to just die against his quicker, more powerful abilities. obvious spite according to you who unlike me has not completed the games in the first round, including Kains...hypocrite.

You have no room to accuse me of making any fallacies at all when yours are so numerous.

He does have the powers of Darksied, Omega effect anyone? Kain needs to get the soul of the opponent to even get the powers, your just speculating, but I'm sure you have physical evidence that says otherwise. Wolverine can't die from blood loss anyway so blood shower will be useless on Nanite Nick.

honestly I doubt you read comics to know that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kicked out if the opponent has the resistances and your not strong enough. Magneto has incredible mental powers to create magnetic fields, he still has to wear a specially designed helmet to stop Xaviour. So no, having Tk is not enough of a techinque to suddenly avoid mind control, rarely has in games.

If the original is the one who amkes duplicates and nanites according to your video dont take over immediatley (assuming they do anyway, their robots so chances are their waiting for a specific mental order) then Kain has plenty of time to screw fury.

Yeh, it can hit more than one target although I cant prove it yet, cant find a vid of it happening meh. Even if one target, Kain destroying the original would give him the win.

Magneto doesn't have TK, he has magnetic field manipulation. It is incredibly different and does not speak totally for the strength of his mind. Justice easily has the strength as Kain has never TK'd more than, what, say, a normal human? 200 pounds max, and that is rather generous for humans in that condition.

The Nanites as a whole have their own consciousness. This is how they were able to discover that they can share powers of those they infected and learned to override their human controllers. None of this leaves Kain any time to screw Fury over. He can't do anything at all. Duplication is effortless and very fast.

That video does not support your point of the Nanites taking over immediately. The Fold's consciousness existed long before it made those four villains turn on the heroes, it merely knew better than to risk itself by exposing its existence too early. Besides, Nanite Nick Fury is already infected anyway.

If you cannot prove it, how does it hit more than one target? Kain also has to know which one is the original in order to destroy it. He must also deal with the duplicates that the original created, Dark Khan, and whatever that third person's name is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no >>> here, only the fact I have more sources and that your own source gives a predicted fighting regime where a guy only has to hit 4 blinking lights that dont move. Even my source points out that percieving stationary things is easier. And thats for a martial artist as well, not for Dante, Dante has no training of the sort.

He never held it up and if he held it, the ground wouldnt be able to hold his weight as the energy according to you stops at Dante (it wouldnt). And no, position says hes hardly on top of Dante even at full extended arm, looks like he hardly scraped Dante before he lost all momentum and froze.

Its an assumption on every event hes lost in. And its a BS reason for all his bad showings. Thats a stupid question as I dont think I have ever been fired on at all, ive never been shot at all either.....I should like to think I could predict a young women whos just walked up behind me, especially if I am supposed to have even better senses than a human. You see similiar things in most fictions involving guns, transporter, James bonde and countless video games have people predicting a shot behind them and moving.

He can lift 50 ton sure, if he can push 100 then any feat involving a motion like a punch or a swing or ofc a push, the pushing is his strength. If hes going to lift something then sure, we use that.

Ofc it could have scraped, especially when it stops almost instantly when Saviour is frozen. That kind of momentum from such a heavy object should have kept it going but the fact it froze means it stopped just shy of crushing Dante, fortunaltey it only scraped hence why the ground isnt damaged and Dante is not even pushed into the gravel. And I lold, scraping from 2000 tonnes like you belive it is would certainly at those speeds hit the ground and Dante with a good amount of force.

Overhyping you are, taking whats a martial artist reacting to lights in predictable areas and assuming A: Dante has martial arts techinque and B: kains going to be a stationary target that Dante just knows is going to appear in front of him to be hit.

No it cant, its a short range nun-chuck weapon and since when has it frozen mist? I dont emember this. And "dimension cutter" has resulted to just cutting objects. lol no, how have they already won? because you think I am wrong or based on a appeal to popularity fallacy? based on the amount of those the oppoistion has made against me your credability in a real argument would have kicked you from the argument, the fallacies are piled too high.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_time
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_Box
-The answerbag perception and Car driving school in the other thread.
-yes he would, lol, she would get "shoot" off and he would have dodged her aim.
-Cutscenes dont but you do, your bias for Dante also makes you forget his large majority of slow feats and skills and Kratos has pretty consistent high strength in cutscenes.
-Thats because he unbalanced it, the whole of Saviour was still propped up and was not fighting against gravity.
-Pausetime is a action animation for lulz which is contradicted by a vast number of actual storyline feats or poor showings. Its even contradicted by the same video unless apprently he can only move quickly when his opponents are in the air.
-Humans could not do that, even your trained martial artist takes that long to react to predictable and consistent flashing lights, and he has already percieved the objects he has to hit. Kain disapears and can appear anywhere within the fight. Dante at 0.5 cannot hit at 0.2. No we dont see him push off the saviours weight only a loose frozen Saviour. Anyone would catch a bullet on their teeth if their mouth was more or less closed and their bones were durable. lol everyone creates heat when they run. Dantes reaction time is arguably below human as he was beaten by blows under 0.2 consistently, predictable ones that dont even require reaction time.

Kicked out if the opponent has the resistances and your not strong enough. Magneto has incredible mental powers to create magnetic fields, he still has to wear a specially designed helmet to stop Xaviour. So no, having Tk is not enough of a techinque to suddenly avoid mind control, rarely has in games.

If the original is the one who amkes duplicates and nanites according to your video dont take over immediatley (assuming they do anyway, their robots so chances are their waiting for a specific mental order) then Kain has plenty of time to screw fury.

Yeh, it can hit more than one target although I cant prove it yet, cant find a vid of it happening meh. Even if one target, Kain destroying the original would give him the win.

If Kain gets the blood, he will get most of hte physical/mental powers.

Yeh but if shes not taken that much magic then its useless to claim thus. "magic immunity" is a no limit fallacy in this case, unless your claiming Living tribunal couldnt create magic enough to harm her.

Darksied, but not necesserily Dark Kahn? can you show me Kahn doing this plz?

Nope! Magneto is naturally resistant to telepathy through willpower and his control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Let it be known that Magneto can affect a lot more than metal, magnetism is not his only power.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5811/maggoestelepathicallyagainstx1.jpg

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2884/magreflectspsychicpowerandreve.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5716/magelectromagneticjamspsionics.jpg

No, the duplicates can think for themselves the minute they're made. Many of his duplicates have gone on to live their own lives and have their own needs and wants. The original just has the power to bring them back inside when he's close enough to them.

Living Tribunal is a cosmic entity, they have cosmic powers not magical powers, LT can just step on her or blast her thank you!

Now as for the Omega argument, at first you weren't worried about it and claimed Kain could go all spirit on it, and you accepted it as a part of Kahn's moveset. Now that you know that he'll still get hit and ****ed up it's like "Hey! Prove that Kahn has it!"

That red energy surrounding Superman while he's being kept down is Omega Energy. Kahn has the Omega Effect.
YouTube video

Originally posted by Burning thought

Yes he held it and yes the ground would support him. 'pushed him back and down' plus you've said it stopped after and im gonna hold you to it.

Besides the Virgil fight when has he lost? Nope just what the mind tell us. >_> wasn't telling you to go jump a bullet, but again even if she announced that she was to shoot him it would be impossible for a human to evade correctly and effortlessly. 1. People like James bond who are trained would be between human and pro reactions (0.15 ish). And 2. Doubt any did in a way Dante did.

We always take a characters strength by what they lift. And by saying Kain can lift 50 and push 100 and going for the 100, the same can be applied for any characters lift feat ie. Doubling Links pillar lift strength. Either way its not going to help.

Stopping instantly? Fist makes contact with target. Fist stops moving. How can go any further with Dante holding it back? It can't. Again not letting you go back on saying it stopped after ^^ Who said I believe it scraped him? It did and we see it but what does that mean...... Dante stopped that Saviors punch~ Simple 1+2 situation.

Im giving them a pat on the back for providing us with the perfect evidence for human RT especially in a fight situation. *pats fight science on the back* you're arguing the methods that they used, the method of professionals in that area. Ok ok A: XD oh come on.... actually I will address this quick. Master of 11 different fire arms, 7 different sword styles (master of one is hard enough) 3 other types of hard to learn weapons and gauntlets that focus on his h2h skills shown in the DMC3 opening/Gilgamesh cutscene and even his Royalguard style is said to be focused on Aikido to demonic levels. B: What Kain does has nothing to do with finding out Dantes RT. Thats step 2.

''Cause freezing water vapour is so difficult.''-SP. <- Basically. A few of Yamatos attacks involve cutting through dimensions. I don't need ''a appeal to popularity fallacy'' for this, a Demon that would make Sonic ashamed of his speed, a Spartan that screams (literally) of raw power and Blacklight who was still partially alive after taking over 300 terajoules and on one team against a 50 tonner with some magic. If all of KMC apart from me supported Kain in this, they would all lose.
-'Mean RT for college-age individuals is about 160 milliseconds to detect an auditory stimulus, and approximately 190 milliseconds to detect visual stimulus.'
-Vision: 0.15. Comparison: 0.19 Movement: 0.33 -From number comparison task.
-'AH4 Part I total scores correlated &#8722;.31 with simple reaction time, &#8722;.49 with four-choice reaction time, and &#8722;.26 with intraindividual variability in both reaction time procedures. The correlation between AH4 scores and the difference between simple and four-choice reaction time was &#8722;.15.' - in relation to IQ.
^ We've got 0.19 for general RT, 0.15/19/33 for the number comparison task, a few numbers in relation to IQ and fight science's 0.2. Dont think the IQ one or the number comparison one is relevant but just for you ill add them all; Mode= 0.2. Mean= 0.265 (0.212 without the IQ test) Median= 0.2. Sorry about that >.> but even without just jumping on the obviously correct fight science, the average numbers from all the links are 0.2. To blow anything else out of the water the master did it in 0.1, not much more needs to be said.
-Missed the point completely, that example was that A has a gun pointed 4m from B's head, B knows that A will shoot but is ordered (by the cruel experimenter :3) not to move until the shot is fired. B has to react to the gunshot and move out of the way. Human RT of 0.2 will get him killed and you thought he had 0.5? Hell a master with 0.1 thats facing the attacker would still get shot with only 0.001 seconds to move his head/body/act.
-No ive accepted the feats, good and bad. And the cutscenes show what he can do, if you believed the cutscenes then you would know. Well Kratos struggled to get out of the grip of a physically weak boss but i digress.
-Actually we see it leaning down then we see the whole thing move when he pushes it.
-You cant counter a cutscene by saying hes done worse. C'mon you're a seasoned debater here. Fact: Dante and Vergil fought so fast that the world around them seemed to stop. Your only counter to this is hes done worse/its only an animation/the rain was held in place by an unknown force. He's not always going to move at that speed, and from what the cutscene that doesnt lie shows, he fought at that speed/no/no.
-What, 0.1? Twice as fast as Kains 0.2? Evident by your own link and mine what a humans real RT is. Dont fool yourself, and by the fact that a master=avrgx2, if a person did have 0.5 (lol no, all the evidence is against you) a pro would be 0.25 and Dante above this. Either way if you go by the wrong 0.5 for average or real 0.2 average for humans, Dante will still be above 0.2.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No we dont see him push off the saviours weight only a loose frozen Saviour.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Anyone would catch a bullet on their teeth if their mouth was more or less closed and their bones were durable.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol everyone creates heat when they run.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dantes reaction time is arguably below human as he was beaten by blows under 0.2 consistently, predictable ones that dont even require reaction time.

Originally posted by BloodRain

So what youre saying is that 'anyone' in the world that have been hit by anything 0.2+ that means they're below the human average? The laws of the universe are against you..

Yeah remember that rocket that chick shot at him in DMC3? He jumped on it and started surfing it basically. That rocket was shot at sub-human speeds. Probably like 1 meter per hour since Dante has below human reaction speed.

Well duh, everyone knows that any human can do that..

>_> <_<