Darth Maul vs Kas'im

Started by Red Nemesis11 pages
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
there is a difference between memorization, and understanding.

And could you please tell us what that is?

edited

Red Nemesis
I would say that the various accolades Kas'im receives from people that are not Bane (especially from the leaders of the Brotherhood, whose names I cannot remember) suggest that Bane's estimation of Kas'im is not inaccurate.

?
Bondara's skills were also heralded by Qui-Gon Jinn, someone else who was not Darsha Assant. But that did not lend credence to her assessment of Bondara's skills.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Bondara and Kas'im are both heralded and felated by their peers and students for their awe-inspiring skills with the lightsaber.

The point of this remains untouched: Kas'im and Bondara were both highly skilled duelists, but not necessarily to the extent that those students believed.

Or are there other statements from the Brotherhood corroborating Bane's exact assessment of Kas'im's ability?

RN
I am not particularly concerned with Bane at this point.

You should be. A huge percentage of your pro-Kas'im argument comes from Bane's assessments.

Originally posted by Gideon
The fact that he was able to competently stand against Kas'im does not mean that he is a Master of any specific form. As the narration concluded, Bane was winning solely because he was the more powerful Force user.

Not exactly, his experience and overall knowledge played a large part.

Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.

Thus, Bane was aware of every technique a Master can use. And if that's not Mastery, I would have you define it.

Shoes
Not exactly, his experience and overall knowledge played a large part.

Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.

Thus, Bane was aware of every technique a Master can use. And if that's not Mastery, I would have you define it.

With a double-bladed lightsaber? Which would be, what? Jar'Kai?

Originally posted by Shoes

Thus, Bane was aware of every technique a Master can use. And if that's not Mastery, I would have you define it.

there is a difference between memorization and understanding. 😂

Originally posted by Gideon
With a double-bladed lightsaber? Which would be, what? Jar'Kai?

So? From what I understand, there is no difference if you achieve Mastery over a form with a single-hilted lightsaber, or one of the double-bladed variety. Feel free to correct me.

Shoes
So? From what I understand, there is no difference if you achieve Mastery over a form with a single-hilted lightsaber, or one of the double-bladed variety. Feel free to correct me.

This is an area I have trouble with as well. As I understand it, Jar'Kai is but one form.

it doesnt take some mentally impaired eu author or george lucas to tell you that that is incorrect shoes, unless im misunderstanding what youre saying in which case i apologize.

any time you are using a duel sided weapon instead of a single sided weapon, every aspect of the fighting style becomes vastly different, even if it still falls under the same form...

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
there is a difference between memorization and understanding. 😂

What is that difference, exactly?

With a double-bladed lightsaber? Which would be, what? Jar'Kai?

I was under the impression that Kas'im was teaching Bane the forms with all of the various weapon variants. For instance, Bane knows how to teach Zannah how to use a double blade, even though he himself uses only a single hilt. He is also provided experience fighting against non-conventional weapons like the lightwhip.

So a specific form name might be irrelevant here.

Gid
You should be. A huge percentage of your pro-Kas'im argument comes from Bane's assessments.

I see now where this is going. It took me a while, but now it has clicked. You want to dispute the various accolades because they come from Bane. I suppose that this will be fairly difficult for you if you haven't got a book, because I was under the impression that these statements were coming from the narrator.

This may be very important.

Or are there other statements from the Brotherhood corroborating Bane's exact assessment of Kas'im's ability?

The one I'm thinking of specifically is the one where Kas'im is sent off to fight Bane by [Kopecz?] the leader of the Brotherhood. At that point I thought there were mad props offered to him.

Okay, then let me ask you this. If Kas'im disconnected his lightsabers and engaged Bane using only Djem So, would it have made any difference? In short, is it the weapon, the form, or both that make a difference?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
[B]What is that difference, exactly?

i already answered this. 😕

Originally posted by Shoes
Okay, then let me ask you this. If Kas'im disconnected his lightsabers and engaged Bane using only Djem So, would it have made any difference? In short, is it the weapon, the form, or both that make a difference?

both

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i already answered this. 😕

Then you wont have any trouble quickquoting it, will you?

god damn ninjas!

🥷

Edit two:
SO then could you explain how it is that Bane memorized these forms and has been told that he is "beyond sequences" now?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
there is a difference between memorization, and understanding.

blaxican is very proficent in computers, i am not. recently i was having problems getting a game i bought to install on my computer and when i asked him what to do he told me to go to the website for the video card i own and download the latest drivers, which i did, and now the game runs.

i have no idea what a driver is, nor what it does, or why, but i remember what to do if the same problem arises so ill do what he told me to do. thats the difference between a memorization and understanding.

RN
I see now where this is going. It took me a while, but now it has clicked. You want to dispute the various accolades because they come from Bane. I suppose that this will be fairly difficult for you if you haven't got a book, because I was under the impression that these statements were coming from the narrator.

This may be very important.

Bingo.

But you need to understand, right off the bat, that most of the Star Wars novels, PoD included, run through the perspective of a character.

It is not a completely omniscient narrator, otherwise the narrator would have said quite conclusively as to whether or not Kas'im was the greatest duelist in history, rather than a "perhaps."

It all comes from Bane's perspective. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but it's not absolute.

RH is correct on the matter. It's the omniscient narrator that attributes Kas'im with mastery of all seven forms, not Bane. Likewise with Anoon, it's the omniscient narrator that attributes him to being the most skilled lightsaber practitioner in the order at the time.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo.

But you need to understand, right off the bat, that most of the Star Wars novels, PoD included, run through the perspective of a character.

It is not a completely omniscient narrator, otherwise the narrator would have said quite conclusively as to whether or not Kas'im was the greatest duelist in history, rather than a "perhaps."

It all comes from Bane's perspective. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but it's not absolute.

In this case it will actually be worthwhile to check out the phrasing in RoT, as well. There we get to see a more experienced Bane reminiscing (in combat) about Kas'im. That might be the best idea we've got.

Overall, however, I think you're fighting an uphill battle to toss out Bane's thoughts on Kas'im as too biased to be of use. You'd have to show that Bane is either incompetent (unlikely, based on his showings) or too awed by his mentor to be objective (also unlikely, mostly because of his own musings during their battle).

A truly omniscient narrator wouldn't deal in possibilities, probabilities, or the like, since he'd know the answer.

The line regarding Kas'im being "perhaps the greatest swordsmen ever" or something to that effect is clearly not omniscient; the book is written from various perspectives and Bane's is one of them.

The line regarding Bondara's level of skill is also from a character's perspective since subsequent material has retconned Bondara from being the greatest to one of the greatest.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
In this case it will actually be worthwhile to check out the phrasing in RoT, as well. There we get to see a more experienced Bane reminiscing (in combat) about Kas'im.

Where is this?