HOM Wanda vs. Thanos w/ IG

Originally posted by Black bolt z
ODG you have just been SERVED!

No quan their purpose never changed.You said they weren't able to "stop time and that stuff" before...yes...they were.That just wasn't known.So when their true power was reveled they were used differently.Thats it.Nothing else.Thanos changed the way they were used and thats the most change they ever got.

ODG I see your still equating size to power.Somehow you think a bigger blast nullifies things to a greater extent.Guess what? That doesn't happen.Their power levels change because naturally it takes more power to nullify a bigger area but thats all that changes.The potency(the extent to which things are nulified)doesn't change.It's not that hard to comprehend.

And nice job ignoring all mr. masters said NOW and just focusing on what he said THEN!!!Man...you are worse then quan sometimes.

I've been served the rantings of someone who is trying to project his self-proclaimed victories over a different debater onto me as if we were the same person. When he's switched his position 180 degrees.

This is true.

Power =/= size. There is a word for what you're doing. It's called "straw-manning." A marble-sized sphere is an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of the UN's power. A Multiverse-destroying/recreating blast is exponentially more power to deal with. Dealing with the former =/= dealing with the latter. This is simple. Feign ignorance for all I care.

I posted a step-by-step breakdown and scans. How did I ignore him? 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Prove what wrong? You acknowledging the UN could collapse the Multiverse with the UN prove that the UN didn't collapse the Multiverse? I still don't get it.

The UN never needed to collapse and/or recreate the Multiverse to fix it
the UN only needed to strike Abraxas to fix the Multiverse.

Because, it was Abraxas that began and continued to collapse realities
leading to Multiversal destruction.

When the UN hits Abraxas, all of his past actions are erased from ever having been
therefore the Multiverse returns to normal.

Simple. 🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

What's a more powerful manifestation of the UN's power? An atom-sized sphere or a Multiverse-sized blast that nullfiies and recreates? Simple question.

I don't know, since I have no idea when the UN shot an "atom sized" sphere.

What I do know,
is that Quasar shot a concentrated sphere that nullifies space-time
as efficiently as any sized sphere.
This concentrated sphere engulfed the area between Quasar and Magus,
and then even engulfed Magus' stronghold which was considerably large,
then Magus' incomplete IG powered up and Magus was unaffected by the UN
then Magus reversed the Multiversal/Universal/Galactic/Global nullifying energies of the UN
back on Quasar.
(that's the Quasar book interpretation)

In the Starlin interpretation:

Starlin just skips to the goods,
the UN is shot, and Magus with a thought
controls it's Multiversal/Universal/Galactic/Global nullifying energies.

Starlin even states in the writer narration panels as he compares the UN vs the incomplete IG:

"a hero (Quasar) far from home learns that the word Ultimate (in UN)
means little in this current contest of champions"

nuff said ... yawn

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

How about you unruffle your feathers over having to prove that you were genuine about your complete 180 degree turn-around?

Gibberish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The persistent obnoxiousness evinces an insecurity I haven't seen rivaled by any other poster. You're the one flip-flopping your position to suit your arguments, with a blustering sense of self-accomplishment. Exactly how accomplished are you supposed to feel when you realize you've been wrong this entire time?

More gibberish. And my understanding now of the on topic scenario
differs from the other poster you're relying on to derail your need to address my point.

I agree it wasn't the Multiverse that Reed wacked,
but our complete perspective on the what/how/why are not the same.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You haven't addressed a single one of the scans I posted.
So it ain't my fault this is going nowhere fast.

What is there to address?
You popping up scans from like 3 to 4 years ago to use as ammo now?
And not even to prove your point,
but to attempt to show us how I change my interpretation.
But what the F are you proving concerning your opinion?
Jack shit that's what.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The UN never needed to collapse and/or recreate the Multiverse to fix it the UN only needed to strike Abraxas to fix the Multiverse.

Because, it was Abraxas that began and continued to collapse realities leading to Multiversal destruction. When the UN hits Abraxas, all of his past actions are erased from ever having been therefore the Multiverse returns to normal.

Simple.

You've ignored the scans again. But I suppose I can move onto the deconstruction. That begins with pointing out a very simple gaping hole in your logic. If the UN nullifies the past events Abraxas wrought, the Fantastic Four and the Watcher wouldn't remember anything, Franklin's powers wouldn't have been burned out, because Galactus would never have been restored from his star-form, Surfer wouldn't be zipping about Manhattan and would be among the stars (as he was before he was summoned by Reed), and Valeria would still be with Roma and not inside Susan's womb.

Actually... that's five gaping holes. Y'see, I've already pointed this out before. Your reliance on the purple prose that the UN nullifies everything, the past, present and future of what it nullifies isn't reliable. Frankly, it's nice in theory and maybe the UN can do it. But not once has the UN actually done that. Suggesting it did here, against Abraxas, when you have all those plot holes? It doesn't wash. It's that simple.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I've been served the rantings of someone who is trying to project his self-proclaimed victories over a different debater onto me as if we were the same person. When he's switched his position 180 degrees.

This is true.

Poppycock!

You're the one that's bringing up a debate
from about 4 years ago to vainly attempt to bring posters' character down.
That shit is not only laughable but childish.

Who gives a shit what my stance was years ago or even last week/

Deal with the matter at hand.

"Oohh he changed his mind, he's flipping flop flupping googoogaga"

Gte the F out her with this nonsense.

^ I don't have to try very hard for you to demonstrate your insecurities here. You're free to flip-flop your positions, but acting like nothing has changed and you can front this undeserved sense of self-accomplishment and superiority when you were wrong this entire time is silly.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know, since I have no idea when the UN shot an "atom sized" sphere.

What I do know, is that Quasar shot a concentrated sphere that nullifies space-time as efficiently as any sized sphere. This concentrated sphere engulfed the area between Quasar and Magus, and then even engulfed Magus' stronghold which was considerably large, then Magus' incomplete IG powered up and Magus was unaffected by the UN then Magus reversed the Multiversal/Universal/Galactic/Global nullifying energies of the UN
back on Quasar. (that's the Quasar book interpretation)

Well, by your argument, if someone can manipulate an atom-sized sphere, they can manipulate a Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast. So, confronted with that -- what's a more powerful manifestation of the UN's power? An atom-sized nullification sphere or a Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast?

The nullification sphere never engulfed Magus' stronghold. They were never directly applied to Magus or his stronghold. They were only applied against Quasar. Read the scans:

Pay attention to the circumference of the sphere. The sphere is positioned right in front of Quasar. As it expands, its circumference expands proportionately. Accordingly, if the diameter of the sphere has only grown to engulf Quasar, the circumference of the sphere only expanded several feet. It never expanded so far to Magus or his stronghold. You've misinterpreted the events on-panel. And as you are aware, in Starlin/Lim's depiction, only Quasar's form is nullified. There isn't a scintilla of evidence that suggests the nullification sphere encompassed Magus' stronghold or Magus there either.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In the Starlin interpretation:

Starlin just skips to the goods, the UN is shot, and Magus with a thought controls it's Multiversal/Universal/Galactic/Global nullifying energies. Starlin even states in the writer narration panels as he compares the UN vs the incomplete IG:

"a hero (Quasar) far from home learns that the word [b]Ultimate (in UN) means little in this current contest of champions"

nuff said ...[/B]

Prove Magus manipulated the energies. You can't. He may very well have fired the UN for Quasar and made it nullify Quasar. Or warped space such that Quasar was positioned into the nullification sphere. I don't use outdated stories where an opponent deals with an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of the UN's power. I recognize that the UN produced an exponentially more powerful blast. And that blast far outstripped anything the IG ever pulled off. Nuff said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You've ignored the scans again.

😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

But I suppose I can move onto the deconstruction.

🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

That begins with pointing out a very simple gaping hole in your logic. If the UN nullifies the past events Abraxas wrought,

1: the Fantastic Four and the Watcher wouldn't remember anything,
2: Franklin's powers wouldn't have been burned out, because Galactus would never have been restored from his star-form,
3: Surfer wouldn't be zipping about Manhattan and would be among the stars (as he was before he was summoned by Reed),
4: and Valeria would still be with Roma and not inside Susan's womb.

Negative.

First, you're trying to re-define the UN's history and effect upon being fired.
No mater what reasoning you use,
it's known since the beginning of the UN's inception
that it erases the past actions of the target it hits.

There's no arguing this, the 3 Handbook bios (across years) of the UN states this clearly,
on panel this has been stated clearly.

1: Reed & the Watcher remember because the story had to end with an explanation.

2: And yet Franklin still has his powers,
besides that Galactus would never have returned to his star form
since Abraxas was never freed.
An inconsistency by the writer no doubt, but that's comics for ya,
this is why we have these forums, to stamp what is supposed to be
without the necessary PIS/CIS to complete/end a story.

3: Don't blame me for writer inconsistencies mr technical.

4: Reality was restructured.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Actually... that's five gaping holes.

❌

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Y'see, I've already pointed this out before. Your reliance on the purple prose that the UN nullifies everything, the past, present and future of what it nullifies isn't reliable. Frankly, it's nice in theory and maybe the UN can do it. But not once has the UN actually done that. Suggesting it did here, against Abraxas, when you have all those plot holes? It doesn't wash. It's that simple.

The UN only nullifies the past deeds of its target.

I disagree with the rest that implies the UN does not erase the past
since it contradicts on panel and handbook corroborated facts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

^ I don't have to try very hard for you to demonstrate your insecurities here. You're free to flip-flop your positions, but acting like nothing has changed and you can front this undeserved sense of self-accomplishment and superiority when you were wrong this entire time is silly.

Still riding this all it's not worth, so still more gibberish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Well, by your argument, if someone can manipulate an atom-sized sphere, they can manipulate a Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast. So, confronted with that -- what's a more powerful manifestation of the UN's power? An atom-sized nullification sphere or a Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast?

Again, an atom sized sphere has nothing to do with what Magus controlled,
but if you're just generalizing to make a point, I'll play.

The UN's sphere of nullification is at the same level of ability to nullify at any scale.
So this, and yes even by logic means,
that the sphere is just as potent when erasing an atom or reality.

It's like MJJ 238 for instance, his warp only spread across one alternate reality
but the power within that warp was greater than the power of Matrix/Merlyn,
and Merlyn has toyed with the prime Multiverse,
he's created an Omniversal nexus, he's created the Celestial Nullifier
he's manipulated the life-force of the entire Omniverse
by placing it within individual tiny crystals which the CN then uses to erase realities.

And yet, the guy who's power only reached a universal scale was beyond him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The nullification sphere never engulfed Magus' stronghold. They were never directly applied to Magus or his stronghold.
They were only applied against Quasar. Read the scans:

Wrong.

Read the scan yourself:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Pay attention to the circumference of the sphere. The sphere is positioned right in front of Quasar. As it expands, its circumference expands proportionately. Accordingly, if the diameter of the sphere has only grown to engulf Quasar, the circumference of the sphere only expanded several feet. It never expanded so far to Magus or his stronghold. You've misinterpreted the events on-panel. And as you are aware, in Starlin/Lim's depiction, only Quasar's form is nullified. There isn't a scintilla of evidence that suggests the nullification sphere encompassed Magus' stronghold or Magus there either.

I disagree. You're right concerning Starlin's depiction,
but the Quasar book shows us more of what happened.
And it definitely shows a null sphere far greater than simply overwhelming Quasar's body.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Prove Magus manipulated the energies. You can't.

You must've smoke some good shit to dare say this.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

He may very well have fired the UN for Quasar and made it nullify Quasar.
Or warped space such that Quasar was positioned into the nullification sphere.

So now Magus fired the UN? 😆

There is zero evidence that Magus warped space.

Simple and put, from the same scans you posted:

Quasar fires the UN at Magus,
Magus with a thought completely controls the power of the UN.

No need to add self illusion-ed fallacy to the feat.

Starlin clearly states:

"a hero (Quasar) far from home learns that the word Ultimate (in UN) - scan you left out
means little in this current contest of champions" - scan right above

Nuff Said!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I don't use outdated stories where an opponent deals with an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of the UN's power. I recognize that the UN produced an exponentially more powerful blast. And that blast far outstripped anything the IG ever pulled off. Nuff said.

Whatever.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Negative. First, you're trying to re-define the UN's history and effect upon being fired. No mater what reasoning you use, it's known since the beginning of the UN's inception that it erases the past actions of the target it hits.

There's no arguing this, the 3 Handbook bios (across years) of the UN states this clearly, on panel this has been stated clearly.

When Korvac was nullified, his past actions were not erased. When Quasar was nullified, his past actions were not erased. Remember when you talked about that alternate UN in Paradise X? That alternate Death was nullified. But her past actions weren't either. Sorry, but you're relying on flowery purple prose whilst ignoring clear on-panel reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
1: Reed & the Watcher remember because the story had to end with an explanation.

2: And yet Franklin still has his powers, besides that Galactus would never have returned to his star form since Abraxas was never freed.
An inconsistency by the writer no doubt, but that's comics for ya,
this is why we have these forums, to stamp what is supposed to be
without the necessary PIS/CIS to complete/end a story.

3: Don't blame me for writer inconsistencies mr technical.

4: Reality was restructured.

The UN only nullifies the past deeds of its target. I disagree with the rest that implies the UN does not erase the past since it contradicts on panel and handbook corroborated facts.

1: Poor excuse. Reed, Johnny, Namorita, Ben Grimm, the Watcher and Franklin all remembered also. They were there at the end reflecting on what happened: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/UltimateNullifier12.jpg

2: Franklin exhausted his powers for years. Abraxas didn't free himself, Reed did so by turning Galactus into a star. Had he nullified Abraxas completely, Galactus still would have been a star as that occurred through Reed's actions in Galactus the Devourer. This isn't an inconsistency of the writers. It's just another gaping hole in your argument that is dispositive proof of your thesis.

3: I don't blame you for anything. Again, had Abraxas' past actions been completely nullified, Surfer shoulda been gliding the spaceways (where he was before being summoned by Reed). But he wasn't (he was in Manhattan airspace), so Abraxas' past actions were not completely nullified. Don't project the excuse of writer's mistake onto your argument's deficiencies.

4: Yes, reality was restructured. By the UN. Had Abraxas' past actions been completely nullified, Valeria would have been at Roma's side. But she was cast into Susan's womb. This is yet, another gaping hole in your entire argument.

It's plainly obvious that Abraxas' past actions (and their consequences) were not completely nullified. Accordingly, your hypothesis that Reed accomplished the destruction/recreation of the Marvel Multiverse via only the nullification of Abraxas and his past actions is disproved. On-panel. As for your reliance on Handbooks:

Originally posted by Mr Master
ON PANEL>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bio

[QUOTE=9002676]Originally posted by Mr Master
[B]

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

Crawl back into your crevice of bull shit [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still riding this all it's not worth, so still more gibberish.

Again, an atom sized sphere has nothing to do with what Magus controlled, but if you're just generalizing to make a point, I'll play.
The UN's sphere of nullification is at the same level of ability to nullify at any scale. So this, and yes even by logic means, that the sphere is just as potent when erasing an atom or reality.

Still posturing, and still wrong. To each his own. doped

Potency wasn't being questioned. I understand an atom-sized sphere will nullify an atom as similarly as a Multiverse-sized sphere will nullify a Multiverse. I'm asking whether an atom-sized nullification sphere is just as powerful a manifestation of the UN's power as a Multiverse-sized blast that nullifies and recreates it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wrong. Read the scan yourself:

I disagree. You're right concerning Starlin's depiction, but the Quasar book shows us more of what happened. And it definitely shows a null sphere far greater than simply overwhelming Quasar's body.

I did read the scan. I also read where Quasar can't judge the sphere's distance because of its intense whiteness and where he "thinks" maybe the sphere engulfed Magus' stronghold. But it clearly didn't. Because the diameter (and accordingly the circumference) of the sphere grew only several feet to engulf Quasar and that's all we see.

And clearly, in Infinity War #5 itself, the main book as we all know, only Quasar's form is nullified. There's no "null sphere far greater than simply overwhelming Quausar's body" in this scan:

Originally posted by Mr Master
You must've smoke some good shit to dare say this.

So now Magus fired the UN?

There is zero evidence that Magus warped space.

Simple and put, from the same scans you posted:

Quasar fires the UN at Magus, Magus with a thought completely controls the power of the UN.

No need to add self illusion-ed fallacy to the feat.

You're projecting your own half-assed assumptions onto me.

Because in that scan there, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MAGUS MANIPULATED THE UN'S ENERGIES DIRECTLY. Show me any evidence that suggests the energies were manipulated, rather than the UN itself being manipulated. All we know is that Magus turned the UN back onto Quasar. Those are Magus' own words. It's just as arguable that Magus fired the UN onto Quasar as it is that Magus manipulated the energies directly as it is that Magus warped Quasar into the sphere's path. All those possibilities could be described as turning the UN back upon Quasar.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Starlin clearly states: "a hero (Quasar) far from home learns that the word [b]Ultimate (in UN) - scan you left out means little in this current contest of champions" - scan right above

Nuff Said! Whatever. [/B]

Yes. Having the ultimate weapon didn't mean squat when (i) Quasar was purposefully limiting its power (the full extent he isn't even aware of) to an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of it's true power, i.e., marble-sized sphere, AND (ii) wasn't even aware of the reactivation of, nor contending with, the IG's power.

I mean... reverse the positions. Suppose Magus was straining to use the IG (assume perhaps that Warlock was disrupting his control from within the Soul Gem) against Reed. Magus doesn't know the full extent of the IG's power. But he tries to limit the IG's power to a miniscule manifestation, e.g., tiny expanding fireball. He's trying to burn Reed up. But he doesn't know Reed has a functional UN. And before Magus burns Reed up with a tiny fireball, Reed manages to activate the UN and he instantly nullifies Magus' tiny fireball. Did the UN wtfpwn the IG there? Semantically speaking, sort of. Realistically speaking, f@ck no. Yet... that's essentially your argument.

But if you really think dealing with an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of power = dealing with an exponentially more powerful manifestation, then since Maelstrom up to a single IG blast, he must be completely immune to the IG's full power. Do you think that? Or is it nuff said? I await your response.

😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

When Korvac was nullified, his past actions were not erased. When Quasar was nullified, his past actions were not erased. Remember when you talked about that alternate UN in Paradise X? That alternate Death was nullified. But her past actions weren't either.

Korvac was never nullified in 616.
An alternate Korvac was nullified in a What If, and that entire reality as well,
it was all erased from ever being.

You really expect a writer to remake Quasar's entire history
to accommodate another story's plot? Ever heard of necessary PIS?

Death was nullified in Paradise X and the concept of Death across that entire reality.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Sorry, but you're relying on flowery purple prose whilst ignoring clear on-panel reality.

Sorry, but you're relying on flowery purple prose whilst ignoring clear on-panel reality.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

1: Poor excuse. Reed, Johnny, Namorita, Ben Grimm, the Watcher and Franklin all remembered also.
They were there at the end reflecting on what happened:

That's nice, doesn't change anything.
The writer gave us a happy ending
with the FF evidently confused about what really happened.

Heck,Ben thought it was a nightmare,
Namorita didn't give any indication she knew wtf happened,
Johnny alludes to hinting at something but nothing concrete.
Franklin understands, and the Watcher seems to remember.

In the end, this all just one big PIS conclusion imo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

2: Franklin exhausted his powers for years. Abraxas didn't free himself, Reed did so by turning Galactus into a star. Had he nullified Abraxas completely, Galactus still would have been a star as that occurred through Reed's actions in Galactus the Devourer. This isn't an inconsistency of the writers. It's just another gaping hole in your argument that is dispositive proof of your thesis.

I disagree.

This isn't an your mis-interpretation.
It's just another gaping hole in your argument that is dis-positive proof of your thesis.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

3: I don't blame you for anything. Again, had Abraxas' past actions been completely nullified, Surfer shoulda been gliding the spaceways (where he was before being summoned by Reed). But he wasn't (he was in Manhattan airspace), so Abraxas' past actions were not completely nullified. Don't project the excuse of writer's mistake onto your argument's deficiencies.

I disagree, you're looking at this from your logical perspective and not taking into consideration that this kinda crap happens in comics all the time.

Don't project your misunderstanding onto your argument's deficiencies.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

4: Yes, reality was restructured. By the UN. Had Abraxas' past actions been completely nullified, Valeria would have been at Roma's side. But she was cast into Susan's womb. This is yet, another gaping hole in your entire argument.

Abraxas' past actions were nullified because that's what the UN does.
This is yet, another gaping hole in your entire argument.

Reality being restructured with that miniscule nearly insignificant occurrence in another issue.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

It's plainly obvious that Abraxas' past actions (and their consequences) were not completely nullified. Accordingly, your hypothesis that Reed accomplished the destruction/recreation of the Marvel Multiverse via only the nullification of Abraxas and his past actions is disproved. On-panel. As for your reliance on Handbooks: Crawl back into your crevice of bull shit

Gobbledygook. You haven't proven anything, like anything at all.
Crawl back into your crevice of bull shit

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Still posturing, and still wrong. To each his own. doped

Still posturing, and still wrong. To each his own. doped

See, easy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Potency wasn't being questioned. I understand an atom-sized sphere will nullify an atom as similarly as a Multiverse-sized sphere will nullify a Multiverse. I'm asking whether an atom-sized nullification sphere is just as powerful a manifestation of the UN's power as a Multiverse-sized blast that nullifies and recreates it.

Yes it is. The only difference is the scope of the sphere.

This is why Quasar said, "or the nullification sphere will mushroom out of control"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I did read the scan. I also read where Quasar can't judge the sphere's distance because of its intense whiteness and where he "thinks" maybe the sphere engulfed Magus' stronghold. But it clearly didn't. Because the diameter (and accordingly the circumference) of the sphere grew only several feet to engulf Quasar and that's all we see.

I disagree, it clearly did not just overwhelm Quasar after it was shot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And clearly, in Infinity War #5 itself, the main book as we all know, only Quasar's form is nullified. There's no "null sphere far greater than simply overwhelming Quausar's body" in this scan:

I agree, and I already pointed that out.

Love how you call it the "the main book" now when it suits you,
but you enjoy using alternate books like Quasar coincidentally 🙂 to devalue Thanos' omnipotence.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You're projecting your own half-assed assumptions onto me.

You're projecting your own half-assed assumptions onto me.

Gibberish complimenting gibberish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Because in that scan there, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MAGUS MANIPULATED THE UN'S ENERGIES DIRECTLY. Show me any evidence that suggests the energies were manipulated, rather than the UN itself being manipulated.

facepalm ... Seriously, let's wait for your high to subside before we proceed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

All we know is that Magus turned the UN back onto Quasar. Those are Magus' own words. It's just as arguable that Magus fired the UN onto Quasar as it is that Magus manipulated the energies directly as it is that Magus warped Quasar into the sphere's path. All those possibilities could be described as turning the UN back upon Quasar.

This is just more of your self-illusion speculation which is completely unsupported.

Therefore its more gibberish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Yes. Having the ultimate weapon didn't mean squat when [b](i) Quasar was purposefully limiting its power (the full extent he isn't even aware of) to an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of it's true power, i.e., marble-sized sphere, AND (ii) wasn't even aware of the reactivation of, nor contending with, the IG's power. [/B]

Bull shit

Quasar NEVER limited the power of the UN, now you're lying.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I mean... reverse the positions. Suppose Magus was straining to use the IG (assume perhaps that Warlock was disrupting his control from within the Soul Gem) against Reed. Magus doesn't know the full extent of the IG's power. But he tries to limit the IG's power to a miniscule manifestation, e.g., tiny expanding fireball. He's trying to burn Reed up. But he doesn't know Reed has a functional UN. And before Magus burns Reed up with a tiny fireball, Reed manages to activate the UN and he instantly nullifies Magus' tiny fireball. Did the UN wtfpwn the IG there? Semantically speaking, sort of. Realistically speaking, f@ck no. Yet... that's essentially your argument./B]

Negative. ... That's your misconstrued view of my argument,

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

[B]But if you really think dealing with an infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of power = dealing with an exponentially more powerful manifestation, then since Maelstrom up to a single IG blast, he must be completely immune to the IG's full power. Do you think that? Or is it nuff said? I await your response.

More nonsense, the manifestation of power is the same at any scale concerning the UN,
so your setting does not work.

The UN and IG are different.

The IG REALLY does react with less power according to the wielder's experience/will,
Thanos, in terms of handling the IG, was in his infancy stage.

The UN, no matter what, by accident, can erase a Reality in anyone's hands.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Korvac was never nullified in 616. An alternate Korvac was nullified in a What If, and that entire reality as well, it was all erased from ever being.

You really expect a writer to remake Quasar's entire history to accommodate another story's plot? Ever heard of necessary PIS?

Death was nullified in Paradise X and the concept of Death across that entire reality.

IIRC, Galactus shot Korvac in 616. I'm not speaking about the What If? story.

You really expect me to be convinced that the UN erases the entire past of its target, when it fact, ALL of its targets haven't had their past actions completely wiped? At all? Ever heard of "you're wrong?"

Death's past actions weren't nullified in Paradise X. Only the concept of Death from that moment forward. Nice try.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's nice, doesn't change anything. The writer gave us a happy ending with the FF evidently confused about what really happened.

Heck, Ben thought it was a nightmare, Namorita didn't give any indication she knew wtf happened, Johnny alludes to hinting at something but nothing concrete. Franklin understands, and the Watcher seems to remember.

In the end, this all just one big PIS conclusion imo.

The comic plainly shows us that Abraxas' past actions weren't completely erased. Stop feigning ignorance. It's irresponsible to ignore that your entire thesis is utterly disproved. Crying PIS doesn't remedy your argument's glaring deficiencies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree. This isn't an your mis-interpretation.

I disagree, you're looking at this from your logical perspective and not taking into consideration that this kinda crap happens in comics all the time.

Abraxas' past actions were nullified because that's what the UN does.

Reality being restructured with that miniscule nearly insignificant occurrence in another issue.

Gobbledygook. You haven't proven anything, like anything at all.

You can disagree all you want. There are five instances of clear on-panel proof that Abraxas' past actions weren't nullified.

My "logical perspective" wholly considers that that you're simply injecting that the writers screwed up your version of events. That isn't what happened. You tried to project you theory onto the comic's events and are proven wrong by the actual comic itself.

Again, feign ignorance, cry PIS, blame writers. Your version of events doesn't align with past comics concerning the UN and doesn't even align here in Abraxas. Furthermore, consider this:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Clueless as ever ey my boy,

The ONLY way to Banish Abraxas was to Erase and Create a NEW Multi-verse in which Abraxas never manifested in.

Here Roma says it:

"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

"But THIS Time, THIS Day can END ONLY ONE WAY"

Reed says, "Yes.... God help me, I can see that now"

Here when Reed uses the UN, Abaxas and Reed say to each other:

Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do, You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"

So you see, it's quite clear that Abraxas himself KNEW, the ONLY possible way to get rid of him, (even if he used it himself), was with the Ultimate Nullifier.

Will you PLEASE READ a COMIC BOOK before posting.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes it is. The only difference is the scope of the sphere.

This is why Quasar said, "or the nullification sphere will mushroom out of control"

I disagree, it clearly did not just overwhelm Quasar after it was shot.

I agree, and I already pointed that out.

Love how you call it the "the main book" now when it suits you, but you enjoy using alternate books like Quasar coincidentally to devalue Thanos' omnipotence.

So nullifying an atom is as powerful a feat as nullifying AND RECREATING the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly? laughcry

The reason he said that, was because he understood the dangers of not reigning in the UN's power. 😐

You can disagree all you want. That's simply what happened on-panel actually. Pay careful attention to the diameter of the sphere. It grows right in front of Quasar. By the time Quasar is wondering if its engulfed Magus' stronghold, "-- I think," it's only reached up to his neck. This is simple geometry.

And it stands to disprove your argument. Which I point out again. doped

It is the main book and Starlin scripted it. We should be paying attention to what he wanted Ron Lim to draw. And Ron Lim didn't draw and Starlin didn't write that Magus' stronghold was engulfed. At all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish complimenting gibberish.

facepalm ... Seriously, let's wait for your high to subside before we proceed.

This is just more of your self-illusion speculation which is completely unsupported.

Therefore its more gibberish.

Bull shit

^ All this simply amounts to is: "Nuh uh!" Fierce rebuttal right there. kinda

Originally posted by Mr Master
Quasar NEVER limited the power of the UN, now you're lying.

Negative. ... That's your misconstrued view of my argument,

More nonsense, the manifestation of power is the same at any scale concerning the UN, so your setting does not work.

The UN and IG are different.

The IG REALLY does react with less power according to the wielder's experience/will, Thanos, in terms of handling the IG, was in his infancy stage.

The UN, no matter what, by accident, can erase a Reality in anyone's hands.

Yes, he pretty much did. Because he didn't want to nullify the universe, just Magus. 😬

It is your argument and you can't divorce how effectively I've revealed your double-standards. Again: reverse the positions. Suppose Magus was straining to use the IG against Reed (also assume that Magus himself is endangered by unleashing IG's full power). Also, Magus doesn't even know the full extent of the IG's power. He tries to limit the IG's power to a miniscule manifestation, e.g., tiny expanding fireball. He's trying to burn Reed up. But he doesn't know Reed has a functional UN. And before Magus burns Reed up with a tiny fireball, Reed manages to activate the UN and he instantly nullifies Magus' tiny fireball. Did the UN wtfpwn the IG there? F@ck no. Same thing here.

You're. Using. A. Double. Standard. Magus wtfpwned infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of UN's power, i.e., marble-sized sphere. Maelstrom wtfpwned infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of IG's power, i.e., single hand-blast. You think the former suggests "IG > UN" but refuse to admit that the latter suggests "Maelstrom > IG" even though it's the same painfully shallow logic? Double. Standard. Nuff. Said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
IIRC, Galactus shot Korvac in 616. I'm not speaking about the What If? story.

BTW, on this, you were right, I was incorrect as the UN's rays never hit Korvac. I thought they did. In any case, we are left with the other times the UN has nullified its targets and hasn't nullified all of their past actions.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

IIRC, Galactus shot Korvac in 616. I'm not speaking about the What If? story.

And Korvac was not nullified.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You really expect me to be convinced that the UN erases the entire past of its target, when it fact, ALL of its targets haven't had their past actions completely wiped? At all? Ever heard of "you're wrong?"

Believe it, cause that's what it does.
Any writer who overlooks this cause of plot constriction is not my problem.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Death's past actions weren't nullified in Paradise X. Only the concept of Death from that moment forward. Nice try.

Everyone that was in Death's realm came back to life,
so yea, what Death did, make all die because she existed prior, was changed.

Nice try.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The comic plainly shows us that Abraxas' past actions weren't completely erased. Stop feigning ignorance. It's irresponsible to ignore that your entire thesis is utterly disproved. Crying PIS doesn't remedy your argument's glaring deficiencies.
You can disagree all you want. There are five instances of clear on-panel proof that Abraxas' past actions weren't nullified.

My "logical perspective" wholly considers that that you're simply injecting that the writers screwed up your version of events. That isn't what happened. You tried to project you theory onto the comic's events and are proven wrong by the actual comic itself.

Abraxas was collapsing the Multiverse,
and then when Abaraxas was nullified the Multiverse went back to normal.
It's irresponsible to ignore that your entire thesis is utterly disproved.
Any other personal angsts you have towards me are considered gibberish by me,
so don't waste your time on telling me "stop feigning" whatever.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Again, feign ignorance, cry PIS, blame writers. Your version of events doesn't align with past comics concerning the UN and doesn't even align here in Abraxas.

I disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Furthermore, consider this:

Good lord, you're not gonna let that go are ya? 😆

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You're. Using. A. Double. Standard. Magus wtfpwned infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of UN's power, i.e., marble-sized sphere. Maelstrom wtfpwned infinitesimally miniscule manifestation of IG's power, i.e., single hand-blast. You think the former suggests "IG > UN" but refuse to admit that the latter suggests "Maelstrom > IG" even though it's the same painfully shallow logic? Double. Standard. Nuff. Said.

I disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

BTW, on this, you were right,
I was incorrect as the UN's rays never hit Korvac. I thought they did.

😛

BTW, we could have an interesting and thought provoking debate full of facts/possibilities and whatnot,
but you must cease from this ever present personal character bash to get your point across.

Whether you care or not I think you're a wonderful additon to the forum,
you can definitely argue your ass off (right or wrong) and you do it in such a sweet reading style,
but damn your need to attack the poster is unnecessary. (reminds me back in the days)
nowadays I only bite back instead of first.

I remember you gave me further insight into my age long debate with another concerning the "Here Comes Tomorrow" Jean holding a Universe bull shit
Yea sure I was on the right path but you basically concluded the clincher with more detailed reasoning.

Basically, let's discuss/argue whatever,
but let's do it in the manner that our knowledge & status in the forum demands,
like professionals I suppose.

I know some posters deserve what's coming to them,
but I don't think this is where we stand. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Believe it, cause that's what it does. Any writer who overlooks this cause of plot constriction is not my problem.

Everyone that was in Death's realm came back to life, so yea, what Death did, make all die because she existed prior, was changed.

You mean every writer that's ever had the 616 UN nullify something on-panel? Actually... overlooking this fact is your problem. kinda

No. Every single being that ever died throughout the history of that alternate universe did not come back to life. Also, everyone remembered Death getting nullified and worked to resolve the crisis ending death created. So no, every past action of Death was not nullified. Nice try. I can also reference the Black Celestial Arc, since although that Galactus and his universe were nullified, the FF and Thor remember those events. Even Starhawk was aware of those events years later in a completely different storyline. On-panel > bios and flowery purple prose.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas was collapsing the Multiverse, and then when Abaraxas was nullified the Multiverse went back to normal.

Any other personal angsts you have towards me are considered gibberish by me, so don't waste your time on telling me "stop feigning" whatever.

I disagree.

The Multiverse was nullified. As Reed warned from the start when the UN came into play. And, while not for the same reason Abraxas wanted to fire it, Reed ultimately resolved the crisis by firing the UN and nullifying the Multiverse. That's called dramatic irony.

Seriously. Stop feigning ignorance of the five gaping holes in your argument that Abraxas and his past actions were nullified. It's on-panel. You can disagree with them being on-panel and disproving your argument all you want. Your prerogative.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good lord, you're not gonna let that go are ya?

I disagree.

^ In other words, "Nuh uh." You can continue to deflect from my reversing the tables on you by switching the circumstances equally in a hypothetical that reveals double-standards. It's still there. If Reed nullified a tiny fireball from an unaware Magus struggling to limit the power output of a dangerous IG, would that mean the UN wtfpwned the IG? F@ck no. Same applies here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
BTW, we could have an interesting and thought provoking debate full of facts/possibilities and whatnot, but you must cease from this ever present personal character bash to get your point across.

Whether you care or not I think you're a wonderful additon to the forum, you can definitely argue your ass off (right or wrong) and you do it in such a sweet reading style, but damn your need to attack the poster is unnecessary. (reminds me back in the days) nowadays I only bite back instead of first.

I remember you gave me further insight into my age long debate with another concerning the "Here Comes Tomorrow" Jean holding a Universe bull shit Yea sure I was on the right path but you basically concluded the clincher with more detailed reasoning.

Basically, let's discuss/argue whatever, but let's do it in the manner that our knowledge & status in the forum demands, like professionals I suppose.

I know some posters deserve what's coming to them, but I don't think this is where we stand.

^ "Do as I say, not as I do?" 😛

We can agree to disagree or continue discussing this. Facts and scans are there. As are your's. But at this point, I sharply disagree with your rhetoric. The proof is there. I've proven that the UN hasn't completely wiped out the past actions of its target. I've also proven that Abraxas' past actions weren't completely wiped out. Suggesting that Reed resolved the crisis by wiping out Abraxas and his past actions only is wrong.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. You essentially typed a response that you pretend remedies your double-standard. Maelstrom had to deal with a miniscule manifestation of the IG's power. That's why you can't use that feat to suggest he could handle the IG's full power. In the same way, Magus had to deal with a miniscule manifestation of teh UN's power. That's the same reason you can't use that feat to suggest another IG-wielder could handle the UN's full power.

Ig-wielder can't pwn a Multiverse-destroying/recreating blast after Abraxas revealed its true utility and full power. Sorry, but manipulating a marble-sized sphere =/= manipulating a Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast.

UN recreates that which it nullifies now. Pretending like this isn't a complete revelation that was never discovered until Abraxas is futility.

Because Maelstrom survived and left doesn't mean anything. We saw Thanos defeat someone of a higher power level than Maelstrom at that point so you don't have a point. We also saw Magus who just acquired the gems to be able to pwn the un with but a thought minus a key component, the reality gem. I mean come on.

The un's power level doesn't change is the whole huge error of your argument here. If you proved the power level changed then we can talk but it's energies were manipulated and made no mention of this only occurring due to the size of the blast.

You have to prove the ig wielder can't pwn it with a thought because we already saw someone do so immediately without the reality gem. You made a claim and you have to prove it since we have already seen it on panel done so quickly and easily.

It recreating doesn't change the fact it's main function is nullification. You seem to think it can nullify the ig user but we have seen otherwise. Magus had them what for a few moments at best minus the reality gem and it was a piece of cake. The funny thing is it takes time to adjust to this level of power and even without a key functioning component Magus did so immediately.