Pokemon v.s. Final Fantasy, with less speculation!

Started by ScreamPaste37 pages

Originally posted by Nephthys
By making blatantly false claims? Yes, clearly that shows omniscient, truthful facts. 😐

No, I don't. Just the mere possibility destroys your argument.

Find me a blatantly false claim? You can't, for one.

And no, that is not how it works. You cannot claim a midget appeared from nowhere and blew up the castle by ejaculating form his ears is somehow a more likely scenario than up being this way.^

You need to support your theory. Support that Nintendo is ****ing with us, or accept the dex is canon.

I intentionally don't use shit like that Tyranitar entry. Not because it's hyperbole, but because it's closer to a no-limit fallacy. None of those are needed anyway.

But thats my point. It proves that the pokedex is a fallible thing capable to being wrong. If its wrong with that entry, what makes it right the other 400+ times? We don't know. You just have to trust in it. That isn't enough for me, you need hard empirical facts before making a claim, and the pokedex is not full of facts.

@Scream

Find me a blatantly false claim? You can't, for one.

I wasn't talking about you. Re-read what I said.

And no, that is not how it works. You cannot claim a midget appeared from nowhere and blew up the castle by ejaculating form his ears is somehow a more likely scenario than up being this way.^

You need to support your theory. Support that Nintendo is ****ing with us, or accept the dex is canon.

Well, technically up isn't that way. Up is a word based on your subjective position with regards to gravity. So while for you up is ^, on the other side of the world up its V.

And I'm not saying they are, but not everything in universe is absolute fact and there are tons of examples of things where ther makers try to decieve you.

Really it just boils down to this:
Humans made the Pokedex.
Humans can be wrong.
The Pokedex can be wrong becuase all it is, is from humans.
QED.

And I don't even come close to giving a crap about what the makers were trying to convey. If they were trying to make the pokedex entries absolute fact, then don't make it absolute fact according to in-universe characters, who are fallible. Seriously, if thats waht they were trying to do then they failed. 😬

That would only prove its incorrect on the things we know are incorrect anyway. 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Would have been faster if not for a pokedex entry nullifying the feat.

you and i have already discussed in detail why thats not true lol.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
you and i have already discussed in detail why thats not true lol.
Is m00t, pokedex nerfed it. >|

Sorry for leaving the topic, I left it cuz is boring. I don't like to leave a discussion, so my apologies.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
If it wasn't meant to show speed why are you using it to show a reaction feat?

Except YOU are the one making these sort of claims, NOT ME. I am not making any claims about any reaction feats, I'm just being rational on what the scene truly shows and represents. I'm not using the scene as evidence of the bullet's speed, you are doing it and even claiming is slower than normal bullets. The burden of proof would be on you. I mean, you are quantifying its speed by using the scene as "Evidence" of it, which is not. That scene wasn't made to show and to specify that bullet's speed.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Distance and speed are highly important to the feat. If you were somehow able to shoot a bullet over 200 meters with it only moving at a speed of 1 meter per second you could easily dodge it. Or tank it, for that matter.

You're being ridiculous now. The properties of "speed" and "distance" are things you are speculating, you are not going to convince anyone besides yourself about those bold claims and personal interpretations. You are putting, suggesting and presenting elements which are not there. You brought that kind of information from the Ultimania? 'Cuz that Sniper Rifle's bullet or whatever that thing is, it hasn't been stated nor specified to be slower than normal bullets nor its current speed nor the whole distance between two places in that scene. NOTHING of what you suggest is presented and specified, why should I take your claims as evidences? They clearly aren't, they aren't backed up with anything, none of them. That's circular reasoning. It is more logical to assume, that is not really important, because it's a simple bullet.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I doubt everything we use as feats around here are meant to be precisely calculated like we do, but we have to. It helps to measure how good a feat is. Otherwise we'd have people basing strength feats on what size something is and other stupid stuff. "That lead block is only one square inch. But that feather is huge! Clearly the feather lifter is stronger."

We don't have to and sure it helps to "measure"... 🤨 but it depends, and in THIS case made up "measurements" are irrelevant. If you want to speculate on something that's your decision as long as you know how to use a logical reasoning, but your claims holds no weight in anything, at least not in THIS case. The developers made that scene for plot's purposes, not to show to you what is the exactly speed of that bullet, less to assume that the bullet is even slower than normal, that's completely absurd. I don't know about what strength feats are you talking about, but as far as THIS scene goes, it doesn't matter either. I got your point, but you don't need analogies to be able to understand something that is presented before us and is simple and clean.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It makes perfect sense and you know it does. Something was about to happen, you admitted this. We never see Ultimecia put up a force field. You know that. The bullet hits the force field, stopping it from hitting Ultimecia. You know that. What you don't know is when that force field was put up.

We do see Irvine aiming and firing at her though. The bullet was fired, thus she puts the field protecting herself, THAT is what she did, otherwise she's dead. It is logical to assume she did it at moment Irvine fired, that's why she protected herself, they failed their mission and Squall decided to attack her directly. That's actually logic, I don't know why are you even arguing over this, it's like arguing that Ultimecia is a black woman. 😂 Squall even said that Irvine's aiming (despite that he was nervous) was perfect. You, however, are persisting in quantifying and making up the bullet's speed with random and irrelevant information for no apparent reason whatsoever, or maybe to disregard what Edea did, protecting herself from a shot. I know you hate the Final Fantasy characters, but denying and downplaying facts won't make them go away.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
They are my points. How would I not make sense of them?

Well, maybe for you they does, I don't know. ermm

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't recall saying you said it was a simple static charge. It isn't true, you know. You can't hold a charge of that magnitude while being weak to electricity and be unfazed. This is why I brought up static charge, the only reason we don't feel it is because it is relatively small.

It made me laugh too. I was just mocking your previous responses to the Ultimecia stuff. But do tell, in what way is Zeus granting them Thunder Armor my logic?

What magnitude? Are you going to measure that electricity? Sure, it seems strong, but Pikachu along with Swellow could stand it. They don't enjoyed it because you can see their faces and that shows it wasn't a weak attack. Ash's Pokemons are really strong, experienced and very well trained, keep that in mind. That is actually like many of Ash's strategies. Do not generalize the Pokemons, Swellow may be weak to electric attacks due he's an flying type Pokemon, but it doesn't mean it will be defeated just by one attack and that it would be ALWAYS weak to it, as it doesn't mean he's a weak Swellow, because he's a really strong one, not all the Swellows are the same. Oh, and since the Anime can't be used here because these are fights between games (some users still used it though to benefit themselves or maybe to show feats the Pokemons can't show in the games. The IRONY.) I do really think the games are inaccurate and inconsistent, is pretty obvious with those descriptions as most of them are hyperbole, you shouldn't take them serious really. Both sources are canon, but the ones that decides what's more important or not are the creators, not the fans.

Mocking? Or trolling? 😕 Forget it, it doesn't even matter.
Yeah, right? Zeus granting them Thunder Armor sounds so illogical as claiming that Edea put the field before the shot, that she has already her hand raised, that the bullet is slower than normal bullets, that she heard Irvine and Squall there and claiming that she was aware. Even claiming that you know what she was thinking (Sure! I would put up a field if I were her! (Sure, I would do a lot of things if I were a videogame character) with a completely lack of evidence and logic. But again, forget it... You hardly sound rational... I suppose this happens because you don't know anything about Final Fantasy, but still wanna argue about it and win at any cost without barely knowing about what you're talking about. I understand now why some of you guys never reach an agreement with other users and ends your discussions in pointless fan-boy fights.

After seeing all the Crisis Core cutscenes (because I don't plan on buying a PSP anytime soon) and since Cloud inherited Zack's abilities, I'm convinced he slaughters the entire Pokemon team besides Alakazam.

Zack is a bullet-timer and Cloud survived a Masamune stab and managed to throw Sephiroth to a wall. The Buster Sword is capable of busting down a vault door. Oh, I almost forgot that Zack tanked a fireball which is powerful enough to blow a hole in the wall. Really, to say Charizard or Blastoise can beat him is plain Pokemon fanboyism. Tyranitar can make earthquakes but Cloud can jump high can cut the Pokemon in half. Machamp is a problem but the Buster Sword has better range than some four-armed 5'3 fighter who gets owned by giant birds.

Pretty sure we've done this dance to the exact same tune before, but whatever.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Except [b]YOU are the one making these sort of claims, NOT ME. I am not making any claims about any reaction feats, I'm just being rational on what the scene truly shows and represents. I'm not using the scene as evidence of the bullet's speed, you are doing it and even claiming is slower than normal bullets. The burden of proof would be on you. I mean, you are quantifying its speed by using the scene as "Evidence" of it, which is not. That scene wasn't made to show and to specify that bullet's speed. [/B]

Yes, I understand that you are trying to show what it really represents. And so am I, the interpretation of the scene determines the feat. But do tell, if the scene is not evidence of it, then what the hell is? And if there's no evidence, why even try to claim something using the scene?

Essentially you would have me assume it's as fast as an average bullet because it looks like a bullet and came from something the game calls a gun.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
We don't have to and sure it helps to "measure"... 🤨 but it depends, and in THIS case made up "measurements" are irrelevant. If you want to speculate on something that's your decision as long as you know how to use a logical reasoning, but your claims holds no weight in anything, at least not in THIS case. The developers made that scene for plot's purposes, not to show to you what is the exactly speed of that bullet, less to assume that the bullet is even slower than normal, that's completely absurd. I don't know about what strength feats are you talking about, but as far as THIS scene goes, it doesn't matter either. I got your point, but you don't need analogies to be able to understand something that is presented before us and is simple and clean.

All you're basically telling me is that the scene is nothing more than a plot point. Doesn't seem like anything more than a rant, really.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
We do see Irvine aiming and firing at her though. The bullet was fired, thus she puts the field protecting herself, THAT is what she did, otherwise she's dead. It is logical to assume she did it at moment Irvine fired, that's why she protected herself, they failed their mission and Squall decided to attack her directly. That's actually logic, I don't know why are you even arguing over this, it's like arguing that Ultimecia is a black woman. 😂 Squall even said that Irvine's aiming (despite that he was nervous) was perfect. You, however, are persisting in quantifying and making up the bullet's speed with random and irrelevant information for no apparent reason whatsoever, or maybe to disregard what Edea did, protecting herself from a shot. I know you hate the Final Fantasy characters, but denying and downplaying facts won't make them go away.

I'm not denying anything. You just want to say one thing that isn't any more logical than something else is more logical than the something else. Fact is, it just isn't.

Squall may simply have been comforting Irving. And Ultimecia's head still moved after the shot hit her field, she did not know where the bullet was coming from.

Ultimecia could in fact be black. You don't know who her parents are, do you?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What magnitude? Are you going to measure that electricity? Sure, it seems strong, but Pikachu along with Swellow could stand it. They don't enjoyed it because you can see their faces and that shows it wasn't a weak attack. Ash's Pokemons are really strong, experienced and very well trained, keep that in mind. That is actually like many of Ash's strategies. Do not generalize the Pokemons, Swellow may be weak to electric attacks due he's an flying type Pokemon, but it doesn't mean it will be defeated just by one attack and that it would be ALWAYS weak to it, as it doesn't mean he's a weak Swellow, because he's a really strong one, not all the Swellows are the same. Oh, and since the Anime can't be used here because these are fights between games (some users still used it though to benefit themselves or maybe to show feats the Pokemons can't show in the games. The IRONY.) I do really think the games are inaccurate and inconsistent, is pretty obvious with those descriptions as most of them are hyperbole, you shouldn't take them serious really. Both sources are canon, but the ones that decides what's more important or not are the creators, not the fans.

Why would I measure the electricity? It's enough to make it into a sort of "armor", which is a hell of a lot.

As for the rest of your post, you're still trying to say an inconsistent TV show is consistent. It isn't, practice what you preach and face the facts.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Mocking? Or trolling? 😕 Forget it, it doesn't even matter.
Yeah, right? Zeus granting them Thunder Armor sounds so illogical as claiming that Edea put the field before the shot, that she has already her hand raised, that the bullet is slower than normal bullets, that she heard Irvine and Squall there and claiming that she was aware. Even claiming that you know what she was thinking (Sure! I would put up a field if I were her! (Sure, I would do a lot of things if I were a videogame character) with a completely lack of evidence and logic. But again, forget it... You hardly sound rational... I suppose this happens because you don't know anything about Final Fantasy, but still wanna argue about it and win at any cost without barely knowing about what you're talking about. I understand now why some of you guys never reach an agreement with other users and ends your discussions in pointless fan-boy fights.

Irving's rifle have a scope on it?

Quit ranting, bro.

That fire attack was stronger the what Charizard or Blastoise can do. Tyranitar is kinda slow with there people so its really Alakazam and Machamp to worry about.

I find it ironic that theres probably more speculation in this thread than the last one. 🙁

Originally posted by BloodRain
That fire attack was stronger the what Charizard or Blastoise can do. Tyranitar is kinda slow with there people so its really Alakazam and Machamp to worry about.

What fire attack?

The one Sin posted in the other thread.

May as well just find it; YouTube video 6:20, small fire creating a 5-10m hole through some thick metal.

That's not stronger than Charizard. 😬 He melts 10,000 ton glaciers.

Instant damage wise. Charizards is hot fire not more destructive then that in one hit. And that was a small fire ball too.

Heat is pretty damn destructive. As in, the heat from Charizard would likely melt that entire wall as opposed to making the 5 - 10 meter hole.

Not as instant as that though. Melting heat to explosive force. This fire can be charged too or even use a stronger materia.

At Charizard's levels of heat, probably as instant, or at least close to it.

His flames are close to that blast, when they can charge, use Firaga etc. FF guys are able to take these hits too.

Well, they don't take the heat. Just the force, like you said.

Arguing fictional fire versus fictional fire allows for them to do unusually destructive things. By feats, power scaling, and statements, all arrows point to Charizard's fire being >>>>.

I've personally had a magnesium flame held to my ear, and my ear is still mostly whole. Magnesium is pretty freakin' warm. Interestingly, most fires that do awesome shit in fiction aren't as hot as magnesium. It's all about heat conduction, and it's fair to assume that a pair of fictions respectively capable of time travel and teleportation also contain super-conductive magic fire.