Pokemon v.s. Final Fantasy, with less speculation!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, therefore you cannot order your blastoise to hose down people's cars out of spite because doing so would require a system of legal penalty. 😐

What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

It's best to look at the Pokemon's powers like you would look at Cloud's materia. Pokemon never use it in cutscenes in the game but they still posses the ability to use it. And the pokedex, despite how inconsistent and stupid in terms of what it does, is about the only canon you can get. But on a related note, Team Final Fantasy take it?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's best to look at the Pokemon's powers like you would look at Cloud's materia.

Cloud's Materia is absolutely up to the player to decide, you don't know what Materia Cloud can use from canon. I don't know what are the rules for this thread either, maybe non-canon elements are allowed, if that's the case, my apologies for interrupt.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Pokemon never use it in cutscenes in the game but they still posses the ability to use it. And the pokedex, despite how inconsistent and stupid in terms of what it does, is about the only canon you can get. But on a related note, Team Final Fantasy take it?

But I didn't said anything about cutscenes here. I never said the Pokedex wasn't canon either. Hell, Blastoise passing through steel with his attack does not have any relevance inside battles either. You can't even know if that makes any difference inside battles, it's totally inconsistent.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
What Scream said.

A sword is an item, wouldn't you agree?

Then clothes are an item. That means Embargo prevents the use of clothes. That just puts Ultimecia at an advantage. She uses her naked body to cancel Alakazaam's psychic powers and watch as his body falls apart.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
I believe only Onix was described as harder than diamond.

Meowth splashed water at it and defeated it with Fury Swipes. Somebody said anime feats are canon and this is a Meowth feat. That means Lulu can use water and then beat Onix to death with a Moogle doll.

Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

YouTube video

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well... I hadn't a Game Boy Advance... I can play games now that I got a Game Boy Advance Emulator, so... I could play Pokemon. Actually, I love Pokemon. Either way, you should play Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX, in my opinion, they are the best ones.

It is not a move you can use outside of battle...? But, wasn't that a description of Blastoise's attack? If you can't use that attack outside battle, then how comes is canon? How comes he CAN DO IT? And if you can use it in the battles, how comes when you attack, you can't automatically kill? You can kill Pokemons with it, right? Automatically. I mean, that's common sense. Hell, if that water can pass through STEEL, then it would literally disintegrate a Pokemon. Aren't you guys taking these 'descriptions' too serious? Come on... Blastoise can't do that.

Anime is the best source you can use, you have all the evidence there. Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your mind, just saying.
It is easier to bring evidence from Blastoise when you can see all what he does, all of what he can deal or take, in live motion.

Oh, I almost forgot. You don't need to use Dissidia. Ultimecia can stop time. She did it in Final Fantasy VIII while manipulating Edea.

I'm afraid I cannot do that.

It's not a move you can use outside of battle in the game, yeah. You really think Pokemon have this inability to use moves unless in a battle? Even the anime that you think is accurate lets them use moves outside of battle.

No, you can't kill Pokemon in a game designed to be played by children as well. Pokemon can easily die in battle, but that's why battling is a sport and not a fight to the death. It is just like boxing, if you keep beating on the other guy for long enough, you will kill him.

Pokemon are hax, dude. You're just ignoring that.

Anime has much weaker showings of Pokemon.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

Well, yeah, they could. But what does that have to do with anything? Or it doesn't mean that it's inconsistent, it only means that Pokemon are much more durable than you think.

I love how the Pokemon and Pokedex is still a topic of discussion.

The Pokedex is in complete canon to the series. What it says, however stupid and clearly exaggerated it is, is true. One can argue, sure. Won't get you anywhere. I call bull crap on the pokedex in all honesty but it doesn't matter. Pokemon is silly like that.

And still, the Final Fantasy side wins. Not like anyone is arguing against the FF character's ability over time. And once Alakazam is out of the picture, Pokemon has no chance. At all.

scooter

Its basically a matter of them showing it, they've shown a lot of pokemon do the feats from the pokedex, but they just haven't found a relevant way to show others.

Like I wouldn't know any relevant way to show a machamp moving a mountain ermm

Oh, I almost forgot. You don't need to use Dissidia. Ultimecia can stop time. She did it in Final Fantasy VIII while manipulating Edea.

Out of curiosity, when was this?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

YouTube video

In that case, Cloud beats Charizard because he got superior speed and Blastoise loses because Hydro Pump isn't that strong.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that? What cars?
If that were one of Blastoise's canon abilities, then the game itself could make you to use it to unblock some ways along the adventure, I suppose. But if it can't be used outside of battle at all, it means it's Gameplay. If it can't kill Pokemons and anything at all with water passing through steel, it means is inconsistent. If cannot do anything it means that description is vague without logic and ridiculous. Like Machamp moving a mountain, without any reason whatsoever and without anything to back it up.

I never said the Pokedex wasn't canon either. Hell, Blastoise passing through steel with his attack does not have any relevance inside battles either.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Some people said Anime was inaccurate, I said Anime is the best source to bring evidence about Pokemon's true abilities.
In this video, Charizard melts a rock with his fire breath, see? They are actually pretty powerful here and it can be backed up. You don't need exaggerated, inconsistent, illogical, ridiculous and without sense descriptions from a game to prove their abilities. We can also see Blastoise. The game doesn't provide any type of evidence whatsoever. Yeah, 'Pikachu blinks and he destroys the universe' Only fan-boys can be convinced if you tell them that.

YouTube video

Charizard > Cloud.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Charizard > Cloud.

Without materia, maybe. With, no comparison. At all. 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lolwtf? What do you mean without anything to back it up. The [b]pokedex says it can. That's that. 😐 And how is it inconsistant if it doesn't kill pokemon? Punching through steel is NOT a high end attack in the pokeverse. 😐 Machamp, again, can move a mountain with one arm, and punches 1000 times in two seconds. It doesn't kill other pokemon either, know why? Pokemon are hax.
Lolwut? No. It is consistant, and it's relevant, it tells us how fast and how powerful his water jets are. 😐
When did anyone say pikachu blinks and destroys the universe? We said, blastoise water jets can punch through thick steel. This is in the pokedex, therefore, true. 😐

Charizard > Cloud. [/B]

YouTube video

YouTube video

YouTube video

Cloud > Charizard

Lol Sin, did you really try to use KH2 Cloud?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's not a move you can use outside of battle in the game, yeah.

Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You really think Pokemon have this inability to use moves unless in a battle?

What do you mean by inability? That's not a move.
Blastoise, hiding himself in his shell, IS a move.
Can be called move and can be backed up as one of his moves.
Breaking steel with water isn't any move, it can't be backed up as either a move or description. That's not even a Gameplay element! Because you can't do nor see that even in Gameplay battles. Is irrelevant. Still you want to use it as pure evidence? Nah... We are smarter than this, man. Hell, I'm even giving you a hand with a video, guys.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Even the anime that you think is accurate lets them use moves outside of battle.

Lmao, that isn't something I think, is a fact. From the Anime you can bring whatever evidence you want, we can't say the same about the games. And who cares if Pokemon originates from a game? Who cares if a game was there first? That does not mean the Anime is less accurate when we can clearly see it's more accurate, unless you are disagreeing with the own creators. It's live motion, you have more than cutscenes there, mate. You can't ask for more, I envy you, actually.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, you can't kill Pokemon in a game designed to be played by children as well.

Huh? You're losing completely my point here.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon can easily die in battle, but that's why battling is a sport and not a fight to the death. It is just like boxing, if you keep beating on the other guy for long enough, you will kill him.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, honestly. What you say here even supports what I was saying. If Blastoise can pass through steel with water (I'm using logic), then a Pokemon would die after receiving that attack, I don't think Pikachu is harder than steel, you know, even if Blastoise doesn't want to kill it, his description states his water passes through steel. Either way, water, it doesn't matter how powerful is or can be, it can't pass through steel.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon are hax, dude. You're just ignoring that.

So Caterpie's body is/can be harder than pure steel? Caterpie is just an insect. Are you joking or something? I never said Pokemons weren't stronger. They are indeed very powerful. But they aren't Gods.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Anime has much weaker showings of Pokemon.

I don't think so. Look at Charizard, you can back the claim that he can melt a rock now. That seems weak to you? I don't know what to think, are you a Pokemon fan-boy? I'm asking, don't be offended, it's okay if you are.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, yeah, they could. But what does that have to do with anything?

It means you can back the claim that Charizard can melt rocks now if he focus his fire breath to it, as ScreamPaste suggested before, if I am not mistaken. This is evidence, I can't argue against evidence, you know? Because that's evidence. I saw Blastoise (Don't remember well) destroying rocks or something with his cannons I think, but not passing through steel!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Out of curiosity, when was this?

Watch this around 4:55.

YouTube video

I think that she did it in there. Unless that's some sort of paralysis. I personally think that she manipulated time. She's a Sorceress known capable of controlling time and space Magic after all. Make your own conclusion, this scene is never explained.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
When did anyone say pikachu blinks and destroys the universe?

Anyone has said that. It was just an example. Relax.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
What do you mean without anything to back it up.

Without evidence. You know, you are even claiming it's canon. I think I'm starting to doubt it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Machamp, again, can move a mountain with one arm, and punches 1000 times in two seconds.

I can accept the claim that Hitmonlee can deal quick kicks, because there's evidence, but Machamp moving a mountain...? I never saw something like that. Why he would want to move a mountain anyway? 🤨

Watch this around 4:55.

I think that she did it in there. Unless that's some sort of paralysis. I personally think that she manipulated time. She's a Sorceress known capable of controlling time and space Magic after all. Make your own conclusion, this scene is never explained.

Huh, that does look like paralysis. Squall was moving after everyone else was after all, but I can see your point with her themes etc. Interesting though....

I can accept the claim that Hitmonlee can deal quick kicks, because there's evidence, but Machamp moving a mountain...? I never saw something like that. Why he would want to move a mountain anyway?

It could be hyperbole.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?

Blastoise, hiding himself in his shell, IS a move.
Can be called move and can be backed up as one of his moves.

Breaking steel with water isn't any move, it can't be backed up as either a move or description.

That's not even a Gameplay element! Because you can't do nor see that even in Gameplay battles. Is irrelevant. Still you want to use it as pure evidence? Nah... We are smarter than this, man. Hell, I'm even giving you a hand with a video, guys.

Lmao, that isn't something I think, is a fact. From the Anime you can bring whatever evidence you want, we can't say the same about the games. And who cares if Pokemon originates from a game? Who cares if a game was there first? That does not mean the Anime is less accurate when we can clearly see it's more accurate, unless you are disagreeing with the own creators. It's live motion, you have more than cutscenes there, mate. You can't ask for more, I envy you, actually.

If Blastoise can pass through steel with water (I'm using logic), then a Pokemon would die after receiving that attack, I don't think Pikachu is harder than steel, you know, even if Blastoise doesn't want to kill it, his description states his water passes through steel.

Either way, water, it doesn't matter how powerful is or can be, it can't pass through steel.

So Caterpie's body is/can be harder than pure steel? Caterpie is just an insect. Are you joking or something? I never said Pokemons weren't stronger. They are indeed very powerful. But they aren't Gods.

I saw Blastoise (Don't remember well) destroying rocks or something with his cannons I think, but not passing through steel!

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because it is NOT a move. It's just some vague, illogical, without any sense, inconsistent, ridiculous description about Blastoise's water cannons. Hell, that's literally PURE hyperbole in all sense. How come all of you are denying it?

What do you mean by inability? That's not a move.
Blastoise, hiding himself in his shell, IS a move.
Can be called move and can be backed up as one of his moves.
Breaking steel with water isn't any move, it can't be backed up as either a move or description. That's not even a Gameplay element! Because you can't do nor see that even in Gameplay battles. Is irrelevant. Still you want to use it as pure evidence? Nah... We are smarter than this, man. Hell, I'm even giving you a hand with a video, guys.

Lmao, that isn't something I think, is a fact. From the Anime you can bring whatever evidence you want, we can't say the same about the games. And who cares if Pokemon originates from a game? Who cares if a game was there first? That does not mean the Anime is less accurate when we can clearly see it's more accurate, unless you are disagreeing with the own creators. It's live motion, you have more than cutscenes there, mate. You can't ask for more, I envy you, actually.

Huh? You're losing completely my point here.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, honestly. What you say here even supports what I was saying. If Blastoise can pass through steel with water (I'm using logic), then a Pokemon would die after receiving that attack, I don't think Pikachu is harder than steel, you know, even if Blastoise doesn't want to kill it, his description states his water passes through steel. Either way, water, it doesn't matter how powerful is or can be, it can't pass through steel.

So Caterpie's body is/can be harder than pure steel? Caterpie is just an insect. Are you joking or something? I never said Pokemons weren't stronger. They are indeed very powerful. But they aren't Gods.

I don't think so. Look at Charizard, you can back the claim that he can melt a rock now. That seems weak to you? I don't know what to think, are you a Pokemon fan-boy? I'm asking, don't be offended, it's okay if you are.

It means you can back the claim that Charizard can melt rocks now if he focus his fire breath to it, as ScreamPaste suggested before, if I am not mistaken. This is evidence, I can't argue against evidence, you know? Because that's evidence. I saw Blastoise (Don't remember well) destroying rocks or something with his cannons I think, but not passing through steel!

Do you even realize what your argument is? You are saying the authority on Pokemon is inaccurate.

Inability means lacking in ability. As in, not able to do something. So now it has to be a move for a Pokemon to do it? 'cause that's pretty illogical.

Explain to me how you can actually believe that the anime is more accurate.

I got your point just fine. Pokemon are hax, you are ignoring this.

Yes.

Yeah, but the game Charizard is much more powerful. It melts 10,000 ton glaciers. Anime Charizard is pathetic by comparison. Yes, I am a Pokemon fanboy. Is it really difficult to tell?

But you have seen the Pokedex say it can. The Pokedex is accurate information.

And yeah guys, the Pokedex is totally nothing but Hyperbole. 'cause the only good Encyclopedias are filled with nothing but good old fashioned exaggeration.

well 2br - wikipedia is actually, by comparison, just as accurate (or rather inaccurate) as most if not all world encyclopaedia's 😉

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Do you even realize what your argument is? You are saying the authority on Pokemon is inaccurate.

I'm using logic here. You seem to ignore my points, you are not even replying to them, you're repeating yourself. What? It wasn't you who called the Anime inaccurate? That isn't the authority on Pokemon too? Or the Anime is non-canon?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Inability means lacking in ability. As in, not able to do something.

I don't get it. I can understand though, that the only argument you have to back those claims, is that the game was before the Anime, therefore that Pokedex is evidence. That's all you've got to cover your argument. You can't back the claim that Machamp can move mountains with his arm, you simply can't. Because that never happened even in the games. Or you can see a Machamp moving a mountain at some part of the games?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So now it has to be a move for a Pokemon to do it? 'cause that's pretty illogical.

I never said that. But you can't show he can do it, that's the point. You don't know how he can do it either. Plus, you lack evidence, simple as that.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Explain to me how you can actually believe that the anime is more accurate.

Explain why you believe the game is more accurate when you don't even have evidence should be the main question. You surely say the Anime is inaccurate, because we can't see Machamp moving mountains, right? But we can't see Machamp moving mountains in the games either. Th Anime shows how they fight, the game doesn't, not even a bit.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon are hax, you are ignoring this.

I'm not ignoring absolutely anything. Mate, are you conveniently repeating yourself here? Because that isn't helping to reach an agreement, at all. I think Pokemons are powerful.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yes.

Yes what?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, but the game Charizard is much more powerful. It melts 10,000 ton glaciers. Anime Charizard is pathetic by comparison. Yes, I am a Pokemon fanboy. Is it really difficult to tell?

Really? Well show me a Charizard melting a glacier, then. The Pokedex also says he can melt rocks, but that's already backed up with a video. So I can't argue against that. You're a Pokemon fan-boy? Oh, that's cool. But please, try to be rational even if you're a fan-boy.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
But you have seen the Pokedex say it can. The Pokedex is accurate information.

And yeah guys, the Pokedex is totally nothing but Hyperbole. 'cause the only good Encyclopedias are filled with nothing but good old fashioned exaggeration.

Inaccurate information, you mean. Because we have nothing to rely on. Just in some vague descriptions like I said. That can't be backed up with any sort of evidence whatsoever. Don't misunderstand, I'm not disagreeing with 'canon', I'm just using logic to analyse canon. I have doubts, you know?

Originally posted by ares834
If Catarpie can tank a blast from Blastoise than he is indeed harder than steel

Then you're making things up. I guess I have checked and it doesn't says Caterpie is harder than steel. The game disagrees with you.
The logical reasoning here would be, if Caterpie can take a blast from Blastoise's water cannons, then he's not harder than steel.