I'm simply pointing out the change in fighting style. Do any of you disagree with the fact that Cloud could not do Advent Children stuff in FF7?
Yes, he could. Second Class Zack and Turks were easily bullet-timing in the Before Crisis Era. FFVII Cloud is far above those people raching a certain point in the game.
It's just difficult to show with VII's cutscenes. But not with IX's.
The fighting style changed to the newer version. That's why Cloud get's a ton of new feats.
VII has been retconned, there's raelly all there is to It. It's the only verse contextually showing feats with better substance. Whatever the style.
You are, again, taking style over substance.
But that doesn't mean Cloud got so much stronger between the events of FF7 and Advent Children
He got canonicaly at least twice as powerful. Sephiroth stated It himself.
AC/C Cloud > EoG FFVII Cloud
It's why he could fight Sephiroth's transcended form to a stalemate for more than 12 hours(all stated in the Reunion Files).
hat he went from not being able to do that to being able to do that.
He could always do that in the creator's minds. It's why the newer games show It.
It means the style originally used to portray characters (used with all old characters such as Beatrix and Zidane and Squall and Cloud) was removed and replaced with an updated version.
See, now this is what kills you.
You assume, if Beatrix was put in the same style, she'd get simmilar feats.
And you can't prove that by any means. I mean, what Cloud did in AC and DoC proved he has much greater physical strenght than Bea, butn It didn't need any CG.
Cloud simply sliced the Omega Weapon, nothing to do with style here.
Cloud traded blows with AC/C Sephiroth. Who decapitaded jenova in his weakest form. No style required here.
Here's the problem. Beatrix never got the upgrade. She isn't in any new movies or games. So how can we logically decide if she can beat Cloud or not? You go back to the roots. If she can beat Cloud in FF7 form, (since, again, Cloud didn't get a strength upgrade from FF7 to Advent Children, he got a style upgrade)
He did canonicaly get stronger in AC. But the point is, in the Compilation, people such as the Turks were easily dodging bullets and Sephiroth's weakest incarnation was flying through continents and stuff.
FFVII Cloud is stronger than Zack, who can dodge omnidirectional bullet fire.
FFVII has been retconned, so even FFVII Cloud has that power relying on powerscaling(which your character seems to rely on since you haven't presented a single feat).
then it logically stands that she can beat Cloud's Advent Children form. Unless it can be shown that there was a significant strength increase from FF7 to Advent Children, but I don't think there is.
Then you haven't really seen the movie. Sephiroth himself states Cloud grew stronger, and he's been training for two years now(where did you think his new move came from?). It's rather obvious that AC Cloud is stronger than his past self, in the context of the story and not your alaysis of style.
I never specified, but I'm thinking of just specifically making it FF7 Cloud.
That still won't help your case. FFVII Cloud was still above casual bullet-timers and has ridiculous tanking feats. Not to mention hurts Weapons, tades blows with Sephiroth and defeated Jenova DEATH all alone.
In the end, friend, you're taking style over substance. Even if you assume Beatrix was made again now, you'd have to prove she'd get as good a feats as Cloud and not say...Lightning, Vaan, or characters such as the Turks.
Originally posted by TacDavey
You all seem to be misunderstanding my points here. I am not assuming Beatrix can leap buildings and cut skyscrapers. Nor did I ever claim that Lightning could do that, nor did I ever claim that being newer means you are as strong as Cloud.I'm simply pointing out the change in fighting style. Do any of you disagree with the fact that Cloud could not do Advent Children stuff in FF7? The fighting style changed to the newer version. That's why Cloud get's a ton of new feats. But that doesn't mean Cloud got so much stronger between the events of FF7 and Advent Children, that he went from not being able to do that to being able to do that. It means the style originally used to portray characters (used with all old characters such as Beatrix and Zidane and Squall and Cloud) was removed and replaced with an updated version.
Here's the problem. Beatrix never got the upgrade. She isn't in any new movies or games. So how can we logically decide if she can beat Cloud or not? You go back to the roots. If she can beat Cloud in FF7 form, (since, again, Cloud didn't get a strength upgrade from FF7 to Advent Children, he got a style upgrade) then it logically stands that she can beat Cloud's Advent Children form. Unless it can be shown that there was a significant strength increase from FF7 to Advent Children, but I don't think there is. [/B]
You're under the assumption that were FFIX to reboot, it would be similar to FFVII's feats.
FFX (Also X-2), FFXII, and FFXIII disprove the notion that FFIX would be similar.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
After the battle with Beatrix, when they are stronger.
Stronger in gameplay terms perhaps. Gameplay/Story segregation ftw!
Originally posted by NemeBro
Kuja can raze planets with one specific attack, that... Killed the party when he actually used it.Oh.
😬
It was never proven that he killed them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It was never proven that he killed them.
The screen fades when they are hit by it, ending the battle, and they proceed to fight the universal abstract concept of death itself.
Yeah, it's pretty fair to say they didn't tank it.
Not that it matters, Kuja can't just DBZ planet bust, it took prolonged blastin'.
Shit, at least go for good FFIX arguments, like how Zidane at full power is said to be superior to Kuja, who was able to tank Bahamut's Mega Flare like it was nothing, gosh.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The screen fades when they are hit by it, ending the battle, and they proceed to fight the universal abstract concept of death itself.Yeah, it's pretty fair to say they didn't tank it.
Not that it matters, Kuja can't just DBZ planet bust, it took prolonged blastin'.
Shit, at least go for good FFIX arguments, like how Zidane at full power is said to be superior to Kuja, who was able to tank Bahamut's Mega Flare like it was nothing, gosh.
They were fighting inside a dimension formed from the abstract parts of the collective consciousness of the planet. Them being dead is hardly the most likely explanation for what happened.
Oh well ok, if you insist.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The screen fades when they are hit by it, ending the battle, and they proceed to fight the universal abstract concept of death itself.Yeah, it's pretty fair to say they didn't tank it.
Not that it matters, Kuja can't just DBZ planet bust, it took prolonged blastin'.
Shit, at least go for good FFIX arguments, like how Zidane at full power is said to be superior to Kuja, who was able to tank Bahamut's Mega Flare like it was nothing, gosh.
Kuja never received a Mega Flare directly to his body. He rode on his Silver Dragon and escaped in time once an attack impacted and exploded near where he was standing. As for the Final Fantasy IX party, yeah, they've died.
Considering they, you know, had to be revived by Kuja.
But why does that even matter, that's way after Beatix owns them.
It's not like you're implying the FFIX part has planet-wrecking durability. Which is strange because when they're hit by Ultima, nothing is destroyed.
Anyway, I really need some Beatrix feats. I've shown tonnes for Cloud and have nothing to compare against.