I do not recall Cloud ever having to climb a pole. I thought it was "a golden shiny wire of hope." Unless we're thinking of two different minigames.
Not that it would matter. Climbing 50 meters is pretty freaking impressive. I couldn't do it.
That said, Cloud can slice through metal. Have not seen Beatrix do so.
Edit: Has anyone ever calced the weight of Cloud's sword? mmm
Originally posted by TacDavey
That just isn't true, though. As I pointed out, Cloud had to climb a metal pole in FF7. If he was suppose to be able to do Advent Children feats, he should have been able to run up it or even cut through the wall. That would not have been hard to animate at all. In fact, it would have been easier than animating a climb sequence.
Why are you taking these little moments in the game(and minigames which are there for diversity), which are mostly there for humor and to diverge from the gritty storyline as face evidence of what a character can do?
Cloud wanted to charge in Don Corneo's mansion to save Tifa, but the game made you do this whole convoluted mission to look like a girl because It's fun.
They think the same about a climbing sequence. And Cloud can easily slash through metal as well, **** he slashed Jenova frickin' DEATH which is a part of the body that tanked the impact and explosion that produced the Northern Crater.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I do not recall Cloud ever having to climb a pole. I thought it was "a golden shiny wire of hope." Unless we're thinking of two different minigames.Not that it would matter. Climbing 50 meters is pretty freaking impressive. I couldn't do it.
That said, Cloud can slice through metal. Have not seen Beatrix do so.
Edit: Has anyone ever calced the weight of Cloud's sword? mmm
Originally posted by Enfathiel
Why are you taking these little moments in the game(and minigames which are there for diversity), which are mostly there for humor and to diverge from the gritty storyline as face evidence of what a character can do?Cloud wanted to charge in Don Corneo's mansion to save Tifa, but the game made you do this whole convoluted mission to look like a girl because It's fun.
They think the same about a climbing sequence. And Cloud can easily slash through metal as well, **** he slashed Jenova frickin' DEATH which is a part of the body that tanked the impact and explosion that produced the Northern Crater.
It wasn't a mini-game at all. I think it's a short time after the mansion where Cloud has to climb up out of the slums. At the start, he climbs a pipe to get to the top of a wall. No mini game, it was all story. If what you're saying is true, and Cloud was suppose to be able to perform Advent Children feats, he should have been able to just run right up the wall. Or jump it. Both options would have been easier to animate. Yet they didn't.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It wasn't a mini-game at all. I think it's a short time after the mansion where Cloud has to climb up out of the slums. At the start, he climbs a pipe to get to the top of a wall. No mini game, it was all story. If what you're saying is true, and Cloud was suppose to be able to perform Advent Children feats, he should have been able to just run right up the wall. Or jump it. Both options would have been easier to animate. Yet they didn't.
Same difference really. And he could obviusly do that. You can't just ignore how low-tier people in FFVII can easily block/dodge bullets and solo summons such as Bahamut/Ifrit.
And same difference, the plot created a subplot for you going around dressign up as a girl in the story It'self. Why not one for climbing instead of him just leaping 50 meters up in the air?
Also, you're assuming FFVII is homegenuous in his power. He only really acheives a level comparable to people such as EoS Zack or FFVII Sephiroth after the Lifestream Sequence.
Of course, he's much stronger in AC/C, as stated by Sephiroth.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
Same difference really. And he could obviusly do that. You can't just ignore how low-tier people in FFVII can easily block/dodge bullets and solo summons such as Bahamut/Ifrit.And same difference, the plot created a subplot for you going around dressign up as a girl in the story It'self. Why not one for climbing instead of him just leaping 50 meters up in the air?
Also, you're assuming FFVII is homegenuous in his power. He only really acheives a level comparable to people such as EoS Zack or FFVII Sephiroth after the Lifestream Sequence.
Of course, he's much stronger in AC/C, as stated by Sephiroth.
But it wasn't a mini game. You didn't even have to press any buttons. So your comparison to the dress up mini game is flawed. Why would they go out of their way to make extra animation so they could make a character do something they had always intended that he didn't have to do? It makes absolutely no sense.
You think the life stream incident made Cloud go from not being able to run up walls to being able to? That's a SIGNIFICANT leap in power. You have to back that one up.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not to mention the developers of FF VII were not trying to make a silly cartoon. Would have failed if they literally let Cloud run up a wall or use a super jump.But that would be hilarious.
Silly? That's what they had him do in Advent Children, and according to Enfathiel that's what they always intended him to be able to do.
Originally posted by TacDavey But it wasn't a mini game. You didn't even have to press any buttons. So your comparison to the dress up mini game is flawed. Why would they go out of their way to make extra animation so they could make a character do something they had always intended that he didn't have to do? It makes absolutely no sense.
You know, for one post this instance to prove your point.
For second, why not, It's certainly more fun thatn seeing the guy jump up. And Cloud has never leapt over 50 meters in the air. That's too high even for him and he can't fly. For third, only AC/C, the strongest incarnation of the character, is seen pseudo-flying. And only top-tiers like Genesis or Sephiroth as well.
Cloud's power isin't static throught out VII, and that's something you are ridiculously impying.
Originally posted by TacDavey You think the life stream incident made Cloud go from not being able to run up walls to being able to? That's a SIGNIFICANT leap in power. You have to back that one up.
Lol. To begin with, the Cloud that cimbed the Slums was nowhere near close to Cloud at the end game. That right there destroys your entire premise.
For second, learn something about FFVII, is that mako is one of the powe-rsources for top-tiers, and Cloud had just absorbed a ton more for spending an entire day in pure lifestream current(something that killed CC Sephiroth).
For third, the party gradually gets stronger as the game goes, you're saying that because FFVII can't jump very high we should discredit every single compilation feat. Which is, of course, ridiculous.
Some of Cloud's best feats are in the original game. Like fighting Weapons, tanking a slash from Sephiroth, dodging lightning, defeatign Jenova DEATH alone, surviving the Northern Crater's explosion, a day in the lifestream...
These are fats his stronger self in AC/C has not shown, yet do we just assume he can't do them?
Originally posted by TacDavey Silly? That's what they had him do in Advent Children, and according to Enfathiel that's what they always intended him to be able to do.
If you notice, a weakened Cloud in the movie dosen't move like he does against Sephiroth in the end.
Because a weaker version of Cloud can't do what a stronger version of Cloud does, you say all his feats are null?
Please. No one will buy that.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Silly? That's what they had him do in Advent Children, and according to Enfathiel that's what they always intended him to be able to do.
Yes silly. In fact, if you're not drawn in by it, the scenes from Advent Children are very silly.
But of course, since I'm talking to someone who thinks Cloud should be as strong as he was 2 years agao, I can't be surprised. Time skips usually mean the characters get stronger. If we go by Crisis Core, even they don't do the silly things being done in Advent Children. Or at least, as noticiable.
However, since you made the thread, I fail to see why Advent Children matters at all. Just say "Cloud when he battled Safer-Sephiroth." This is before AC, before the time skip and Cloud's subsequent powering up, but considers CC to be in full canon because it was a modern depiction of a time before said time skip.
Or you can ignore that and let it just be Cloud minus whatever feats you don't like vs Beatrix. In which case, Cloud will always lose to bias. 🙂
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yes silly. In fact, if you're not drawn in by it, the scenes from Advent Children are very silly.But of course, since I'm talking to someone who thinks Cloud should be as strong as he was 2 years agao, I can't be surprised. Time skips usually mean the characters get stronger. If we go by Crisis Core, even they don't do the silly things being done in Advent Children. Or at least, as noticiable.
However, since you made the thread, I fail to see why Advent Children matters at all. Just say "Cloud when he battled Safer-Sephiroth." This is before AC, before the time skip and Cloud's subsequent powering up, but considers CC to be in full canon because it was a modern depiction of a time before said time skip.
Or you can ignore that and let it just be Cloud minus whatever feats you don't like vs Beatrix. In which case, Cloud will always lose to bias. 🙂
Exactly. If you don't want Cloud with Post-Crisis feats, just say Meteor Crisis Cloud.
That'll restrict Cloud of some of his best feats(Cutting crystalized mako, matching transcended Sephiroth, one-shoting Kadaj...), but It won't restrict the ones from FFVII or the ones from BC, CC, and DoC done by weaker people.
After all, even speed fodder, such as Azul in metamorph form, is faster than the eye can see.
And again, The Legend and Tseng were easily bullet-timing in their time. And, of course, Zack who is a weaker version of end of FFVII Cloud dodging bullets omnidirectionally.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Zack > Cloud.uhuh
Zack is comparable to FFVII Cloud probably up to the point of the Lifestream Sequence or Lifestream battle. After that Cloud gets a shit-ton of mako and a personality boost, they become incomparable.
Not to mention AC/C Cloud who one-shot a FFVII Sephiroth level opponent(Kadaj) and crossed blades with the strongest being in the universe.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Zack > CloudFACT.
uhuh
BTW I know Cloud is stronger, but...Cloud had no personality during AC. Stupid movie rewinding Cloud back to emoness ><
Well you are correct on that. Zack is genrally a much more likeable character than Cloud. I like both really(favorite duo aside from Cloud/Dante) but I find Cloud a bit more interesting because of his metal issues.
It's also true that AC/C did that with little to no explanation. You'd need to read Case Of Tifa to undetstand why that happened.
Since AC/C is practically "Case Of Cloud" but concealed.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
You know, for one post this instance to prove your point.For second, why not, It's certainly more fun thatn seeing the guy jump up. And Cloud has never leapt over 50 meters in the air. That's too high even for him and he can't fly. For third, only AC/C, the strongest incarnation of the character, is seen pseudo-flying. And only top-tiers like Genesis or Sephiroth as well.
More fun? Why is it more fun watching someone climb something rather than run up a wall? You have a pretty weird view on what is fun. And again, it took MORE time to make Cloud do something he wasn't suppose to have to.
I have no doubt that Cloud's strength increases throughout the game and Advent Children. What I disagree on is the idea that, at some point, he grows so much stronger that he transforms from someone who had to climb a pole to someone who could run up walls and cut buildings in half. That's like going from Krillin to Goku stage four. It's a whole different league in terms of power.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
Cloud's power isin't static throught out VII, and that's something you are ridiculously impying.
Not true, as I said above.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
Lol. To begin with, the Cloud that cimbed the Slums was nowhere near close to Cloud at the end game. That right there destroys your entire premise.
What premise?
Originally posted by Enfathiel
For second, learn something about FFVII, is that mako is one of the powe-rsources for top-tiers, and Cloud had just absorbed a ton more for spending an entire day in pure lifestream current(something that killed CC Sephiroth).
Again, I have no dount Cloud got stronger. The strength jump you are claiming he made is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
For third, the party gradually gets stronger as the game goes, you're saying that because FFVII can't jump very high we should discredit every single compilation feat. Which is, of course, ridiculous.
That isn't what I'm saying at all. Read back over my argument if you are confused.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
Some of Cloud's best feats are in the original game. Like fighting Weapons, tanking a slash from Sephiroth, dodging lightning, defeatign Jenova DEATH alone, surviving the Northern Crater's explosion, a day in the lifestream...
Good. Then I have no problem debating those points.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
These are fats his stronger self in AC/C has not shown, yet do we just assume he can't do them?
No. Why would we? This makes no sense.
Originally posted by Enfathiel
If you notice, a weakened Cloud in the movie dosen't move like he does against Sephiroth in the end.Because a weaker version of Cloud can't do what a stronger version of Cloud does, you say all his feats are null?
Please. No one will buy that.
Again, not what I'm saying at all.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yes silly. In fact, if you're not drawn in by it, the scenes from Advent Children are very silly.But of course, since I'm talking to someone who thinks Cloud should be as strong as he was 2 years agao, I can't be surprised. Time skips usually mean the characters get stronger. If we go by Crisis Core, even they don't do the silly things being done in Advent Children. Or at least, as noticiable.
They certainly do far more than the original FF7 did. And again, I am not claiming that Cloud is the same strength as he was in FF7. But the leap in strength you all are talking about is astronomical.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
However, since you made the thread, I fail to see why Advent Children matters at all. Just say "Cloud when he battled Safer-Sephiroth." This is before AC, before the time skip and Cloud's subsequent powering up, but considers CC to be in full canon because it was a modern depiction of a time before said time skip.Or you can ignore that and let it just be Cloud minus whatever feats you don't like vs Beatrix. In which case, Cloud will always lose to bias. 🙂
I could, though I was trying to avoid making special rules like that.
Originally posted by TacDavey More fun? Why is it more fun watching someone climb something rather than run up a wall? You have a pretty weird view on what is fun. And again, it took MORE time to make Cloud do something he wasn't suppose to have to.
I don't know. Why would we take more time to gather women's clothing instead of just charging in Corneo's mansion like Cloud wanted?
The japanese are wierd, man.
Originally posted by TacDavey I have no doubt that Cloud's strength increases throughout the game and Advent Children. What I disagree on is the idea that, at some point, he grows so much stronger that he transforms from someone who had to climb a pole to someone who could run up walls and cut buildings in half. That's like going from Krillin to Goku stage four. It's a whole different league in terms of power.
Cloud could always vut incredibly durable stuff. Even as a kid with no mako enhancements or Jenova cells he pierced Before Crisis Sephiroth completely and wieldd the Buster Sword(something only a SOLDIER was supposed to be able to do). And then again, defeating Jenova Death alone means he broke he durability. That's FAAR above building level. So is piercing CC Sephiroth completely.
And the other part of you post is non-valid. Cloud is only seen flying over Midgar in his top-strongest incarnation yet.
Why would a far weaker Cloud than end of game Cloud(in turn far weaker than AC/C Cloud) not being able to do AC/C Cloud stuff be contradictory?
He's only shown jumping high and pseudo-flying in his strongest incarnation. Not even Second Class Zack showed something simmilar. Heck, not even CC Seph and Genesis - which makes sense them being weaker than AC/C Cloud.
Originally posted by TacDavey What premise?
The premise that Cloud's jumping power is inconsistant.
Originally posted by TacDavey Again, I have no dount Cloud got stronger. The strength jump you are claiming he made is ridiculous.
You are arguing that an astronomicaly weaker version of AC/C Cloud couldn't do AC/C Cloud stuff is contradictory.
There is no logic there.
Originally posted by TacDavey That isn't what I'm saying at all. Read back over my argument if you are confused.
It kinda is. Because FFVII Cloud had to climb a pole at a determined point, all latter compilation feats are fruits of changes in style, not ability to show substance better.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I have no doubt that Cloud's strength increases throughout the game and Advent Children. What I disagree on is the idea that, at some point, he grows so much stronger that he transforms from someone who had to climb a pole to someone who could run up walls and cut buildings in half. That's like going from Krillin to Goku stage four. It's a whole different league in terms of power.
Hey, Tac, I think most of us provided enough reasons to think that Cloud would likely win. I honestly don't see how Beatrix has a chance. Want to elaborate on that, or you don't think she could win as you stated earlier on page number 2? I remember you said that for you Cloud would win, look:
''I never said Beatrix was stronger than Cloud. In fact, I think Cloud would win. The difference is I actually have good reasons to think Cloud would win''.
So, what are your reasons exactly?