Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
Just because Maul is better than Qui Gon and Mace is better than Qui Gon, that doesn't mean that Maul is equal to Mace. Maul could be just be a little bit better than Qui Gon, and Mace could be on a whole different plane, or vice versa.
ROTS Windu is far better than Maul. TPM Maul is far better than Qui Gon.
Originally posted by Shoes
This conflicts with your response to this:If Maul did come close to beating him (which I highly doubt), it's feat that even Windu could barely manage, even with Vaapad and the superconducting loop, meaning Maul > Qui-Gon, Maul = Mace, Maul = Sidious.
No, because no where did I say Maul was Sidious's equal. I was just pointing out hes one of the few who could even spar Sidious.
And I pointed it out because people keep go on about a temporarily angered padawan Obi1 almost besting Maul. Well my point was that a temporarily Enraged Maul is in another league.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He's better, but he's not FAR better. If that was so, Qui-Gon would have been dead around the same time Obi-Wan took a 4-storey plunge over the side, but Maul gets backhanded for it. He's not FAR better.
This.
Also: Mace==Qui Gon < Maul is an ABC if I ever saw one.
Still waiting on that quote that says Mace==QGJ around the time of TPM.
I believe the quote everyone is referring to was speaking about their past, before Mace was on the council.
I know it isn't true, in any event, for any incarnation of Mace beyond TPM, and since it was later incarnations of Mace that fought Grievous, nothing here helps Maul.
Originally posted by truejediThe quote was of circa TPM.
This.Also: Mace==Qui Gon < Maul is an ABC if I ever saw one.
Still waiting on that quote that says Mace==QGJ around the time of TPM.
I believe the quote everyone is referring to was speaking about their past, before Mace was on the council.
I know it isn't true, in any event, for any incarnation of Mace beyond TPM, and since it was later incarnations of Mace that fought Grievous, nothing here helps Maul.
Though for the life of me I cannot remember where the quote is even though I remember reading it before.
Iv read it on wookipedia. But no idea where the original source is from.
Still since GG got tooled by Fisto I think the argument should be prooving GG can stand up to a Sith Lord (One of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history) and not vice versa.
Unless your all claiming here that Fisto > Maul. If so id love to see the reasoning behind that assumption.
In TPM, Maul was the far superior duelist and fighter - especially when it came to Obi-Wan vs Maul. Jinn stated that that Maul had a "Jedi's focus" when it came to fighting or something of the sort. Obi-Wan got knocked on his ass three times and Force pushed over the edge. That is a serious testament to Maul's abilities in combat. Not only did he kill 2 Masters (Anoon and Jinn), if he didn't get arrogant, Obi-Wan could have been a victim too.
Originally posted by Shoes
Re-read TPM. Maul wasn't even breaking a sweat.
And it was made clear he was more than a match for both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan combined.
Not to mention on Tatooine Qui-Gon JUST managed to survive by the skin of his teeth.
So Yeah, Maul was far better a warrior than Qui Gon.
Look we are talking about a guy whose perfected his Form Juyo(the deadliest Form) which also means hes a High Level Master of multiple other forms, whose mastered not only a regular lightsaber but also the unorthodox but deadly Double bladed weapon, who was put through the most vigourous training by Sidious, whose physical and force assisted abilites were pushed to their limit and who combined martial arts into his fighting style.
I mean seriously GG wuldnt stand a chance against Maul!
Especially now that we have it T-Canon confirmed that Fisto and Kolar are both far superior in lightsaber combat to Greivous. And I haven't seen anything from either of those 2 to make me believe they would be a match for Maul.
I have to disagree with you on one point Power. GG does stand a fighting chance due to his exosketal armor. One small mistake (like when Maul had his weapon sawed in half), then GG has a chance of killing Maul. But I don't think Maul would make that mistake.
Does that however mean that Maul is superior to Fisto and Kolar? If so, who on the Council can defeat him? The only one possible in my opinion is Mace due to his strength in the Force. Mace would have to heavily rely on the Force because Maul would hold nothing back. In short, Maul was a weapons master - a perfect killing machine.
Good points Truculent. Yeah your right saying GG has no chance was a bit on top.
On the Council by ROTS theres at least 3 who would defeat Maul in Saber combat. Yoda, Mace and Anakin.
And theres the possibility of Obiwan being a 4th. Simply because his Soresu defences would hold.
However as off TPM time, I only see Yoda as the one who would defeat Maul in a Saber fight without any doubt. But I think Mace vs. Maul at this point in time could actually be a pretty good fight. With shatterpoint perhaps giving Mace the edge. Although its hard to tell because we dnt really know how far Mace was into his development of Vapaad at this point in time. A Superconducting Loop would completely change things.
But apart from those big 2 I dnt see anyone else off the Jedi council defeating Maul at the time of TPM.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He's better, but he's not FAR better. If that was so, Qui-Gon would have been dead around the same time Obi-Wan took a 4-storey plunge over the side, but Maul gets backhanded for it. He's not FAR better.
After minutes of rest and meditation from Qui Gon, Maul killed him in no more than 30 seconds. I'd say him being "far better" is completely justified.
Originally posted by Darth MartinNo, he's not. He's superior, unquestionably so. The narrative and the results make that clear.
After minutes of rest and meditation from Qui Gon, Maul killed him in no more than 30 seconds. I'd say him being "far better" is completely justified.
Maul handed Qui-Gon his ass for three reasons: 1.) Youth/stamina. No matter how skilled one may be, if you can't catch your breath or rest your muscles, you're f*cked. Unless Qui-Gon took a senzu bean while he was meditating, I very much doubt he recovered from the duel's first phase.
2.) The reactor room. Qui-Gon's Ataru played against him in that little chamber. Maul's acrobatics and Juyo were situated perfectly here. There's a reason Maul chose that place as the arena.
3.) Preparation. Maul had selected that area, with it's tall, narrow walkways, and little circular rooms to use against the Jedi. I could be the greatest gunslinger in the West, but if my opponent has the gift of preparation, there's a good chance I'm gonna firing at his hidden iron breastplate.
Maul's youth/stamina is all him, no variables there. But prep. time and clever choice of arena/fighting style is gonna give him the edge over Qui-Gon any day. In a 1-on-1, no variables or established advantages, Maul>Qui-Gon. Hell, Maul>>Qui-Gon. But NOT Maul>>>>>>Qui-Gon.
1.So Yoda, Sidious, Tyranus...... Age isn't the best excuse for a Force practitioner. Especially one as reknowned as Jinn. 😬
2.Heard this before. I don't buy it either. He does Ataru, granted, but he doesn't hop around like fellow users Yoda and Sidious. He had enough space to fight. Maul had a double bladed lightsaber and he was just fine.
3.Qui Gon Jinn had minutes of battle meditation and resting to catch his breather. He even initiated the fight by charging at Maul. He got owned.
Originally posted by Lord LucienIf that's what you see as "far better" then I'd disagree too.
But NOT Maul>>>>>>Qui-Gon.
I'm reading a lot of assumptions and no quotes. I've seen at least one fallacy. TPM novelization does not portray Maul as "far superior"
Read: p. 300:
"(QGJ) was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. QGJ might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty. ...
...Stroke for stroke, QG and Darth Maul battled about the rim of the melting pit, locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither."