Darth Maul vs. General Grievous

except for the parts where he didnt

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Maul is quite obviously the superior fighter. He kicked both of there asses throughout the entire duel.

MARTIN

THE NOVEL AGREES WITH YOUR SHIT

WHAT ARE YOU DOING

The Sith Lord was supple and quick, and he worked his way between the Jedi with confidence and ease, whipping his two-ended lightsaber back and forth between them, more than holding his own against their efforts to bring him down. He was skilled, Anakin saw-more skilled, perhaps, than the men he faced. And he was confident in a way that was disturbing. He would not be overcome easily.

Why are writing in caps? It's disturbing me.

I was merely defending myself verbally against the other posters. They do contradict in some areas. When they do, film is generally considered the superior cannon.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Why are writing in caps? It's disturbing me.

I was merely defending myself verbally against the other posters. They do contradict in some areas. When they do, film is generally considered the superior cannon.

MARTIN

THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION

YOU MUST GO BY THE BOOK

GTFO

Could of swore I read a qoute about Maul's clothes being ripped fromn lightsaber grazings.

In addition to this being irrelevant, red herring.

But enough about Maul.

Let's talk Grievous.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Apparently there is:

i dont see a contradiction anywhere there.

There is no contradiction. The novel is as canon as the movie, unless one directly contradicts the other. These do not. Darth Martin, your interpretation of the lightsaber fight and who was superior is meaningless in the face of a canon source.

If your opinion contradicts with canon, who do you think wins? humor me by guessing.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
On film, Maul is never shown to be overwhelmed(facial expression).

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Wow... that's... that's just awful.

Originally posted by truejedi
I'm reading a lot of assumptions and no quotes. I've seen at least one fallacy. TPM novelization does not portray Maul as "far superior"

Read: p. 300:
"(QGJ) was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. QGJ might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty. ...
...Stroke for stroke, QG and Darth Maul battled about the rim of the melting pit, locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither."

Wasnt this after Maul took a huge hit and fell flat on his back??
Read earlier in the novel. Maul held both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at Bay.
And Qui-Gon knew it was actually Maul who was in control of the fight. So he was at least a match, possibly superior to both of them combined, which means he was of course FAR superior to Qui-Gon alone.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wasnt this after Maul took a huge hit and fell flat on his back??
Read earlier in the novel. Maul held both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at Bay.
And Qui-Gon knew it was actually Maul who was in control of the fight. So he was at least a match, possibly superior to both of them combined, which means he was of course FAR superior to Qui-Gon alone.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, he's not. He's superior, unquestionably so. The narrative and the results make that clear.

Maul handed Qui-Gon his ass for three reasons: 1.) Youth/stamina. No matter how skilled one may be, if you can't catch your breath or rest your muscles, you're f*cked. Unless Qui-Gon took a senzu bean while he was meditating, I very much doubt he recovered from the duel's first phase.

2.) The reactor room. Qui-Gon's Ataru played against him in that little chamber. Maul's acrobatics and Juyo were situated perfectly here. There's a reason Maul chose that place as the arena.

3.) Preparation. Maul had selected that area, with it's tall, narrow walkways, and little circular rooms to use against the Jedi. I could be the greatest gunslinger in the West, but if my opponent has the gift of preparation, there's a good chance I'm gonna firing at his hidden iron breastplate.

Maul's youth/stamina is all him, no variables there. But prep. time and clever choice of arena/fighting style is gonna give him the edge over Qui-Gon any day. In a 1-on-1, no variables or established advantages, Maul>Qui-Gon. Hell, Maul>>Qui-Gon. But NOT Maul>>>>>>Qui-Gon.

What the f*ck is a senzu bean, and where can I get one/some?

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
We already know that Maul is better than QGJ. What we're discussing is exactly how much better he is.

I know. And the fact that he was more than a match for both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan put together shows Maul was MUCH better than Qui-Gon. Also the fact that Qui-Gon alone wasnt lasting very long against Maul on Tatooine.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
TPM obiwan wouldn't have helped out that much.

Really?? He looked like he was helping out quite a lot. Qui-Gon was the first to get hit flat on his ass. Without Obiwan there he would have likely died then. The novel mentions Obiwan as having more energy and stamina than Qui-Gon(though not yet his equal).

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
He was only a padawan,

A fully trained padawan.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
and a nooby one at that.

So Yoda Knighted a nooby??

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
He really didn't have much skill

So you dnt need much skill to be Knighted??

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
and the fact that he defeated a killing machine like Maul was really just a fluke.

I wuldnt call it Fluke. It was Maul's Overconfidence that lead to his Clumsy downfall. But Maul certainly dominated the Saber fight.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
QGJ alone would only be set back a tiny bit w/o support from Obi.

Really?? So on Tatooine Qui-gon wasnt about to get murdered???

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wasnt this after Maul took a huge hit and fell flat on his back??
Read earlier in the novel. Maul held both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at Bay.
And Qui-Gon knew it was actually Maul who was in control of the fight. So he was at least a match, possibly superior to both of them combined, which means he was of course FAR superior to Qui-Gon alone.

Read: p. 300:
"(QGJ) was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. QGJ might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty. ...
...Stroke for stroke, QG and Darth Maul battled about the rim of the melting pit, locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither."

Nope, this came after QGJ had a moment to catch his breath and went back to fighting maul before kenobi could arrive. This is during the time you contended QGJ was getting dominated.

The paragraph after the above quote (P. 301) mentions that QGJ simply didn't have the stamina to compete with Maul.

Originally posted by truejedi
[b]

Read: p. 300:
"(QGJ) was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. QGJ might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty. ...
...Stroke for stroke, QG and Darth Maul battled about the rim of the melting pit, locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither."

Nope, this came after QGJ had a moment to catch his breath and went back to fighting maul before kenobi could arrive. This is during the time you contended QGJ was getting dominated.

The paragraph after the above quote (P. 301) mentions that QGJ simply didn't have the stamina to compete with Maul. [/B]

This was after Maul fell 2 stories landing flat on his back. A hit that Qui-Gon was only able to get because Maul took a second to dispose of Obiwan.

And this paragraph above shows the environment was limiting Mauls mobility with his double bladed weapon, and NOT limiting Qui-Gon's Ataro.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, he's not. He's superior, unquestionably so. The narrative and the results make that clear.

Maul handed Qui-Gon his ass for three reasons: 1.) Youth/stamina. No matter how skilled one may be, if you can't catch your breath or rest your muscles, you're f*cked. Unless Qui-Gon took a senzu bean while he was meditating, I very much doubt he recovered from the duel's first phase.

2.) The reactor room. Qui-Gon's Ataru played against him in that little chamber. Maul's acrobatics and Juyo were situated perfectly here. There's a reason Maul chose that place as the arena.

3.) Preparation. Maul had selected that area, with it's tall, narrow walkways, and little circular rooms to use against the Jedi. I could be the greatest gunslinger in the West, but if my opponent has the gift of preparation, there's a good chance I'm gonna firing at his hidden iron breastplate.

Maul's youth/stamina is all him, no variables there. But prep. time and clever choice of arena/fighting style is gonna give him the edge over Qui-Gon any day. In a 1-on-1, no variables or established advantages, Maul>Qui-Gon. Hell, Maul>>Qui-Gon. But NOT Maul>>>>>>Qui-Gon.

As someone has already mentioned, Qui-Gon's bio in TNEGTC even sights poorer stamina (due to old age) as the main reason behind his defeat at the hands of Maul.

Originally posted by truejedi
oh, and still waiting on the Mace quote.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
What the f*ck is a senzu bean, and where can I get one/some?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This was after Maul fell 2 stories landing flat on his back. A hit that Qui-Gon was only able to get because Maul took a second to dispose of Obiwan.

Definitly not directly after, like you are trying to imply. This is the final confrontation.

And this paragraph above shows the environment was limiting Mauls mobility with his double bladed weapon, and NOT limiting Qui-Gon's Ataro.

I never claimed that. Strawman much?

In any fight - especially a swordfight, you have to control the situation. Maul exactly that. Watch MMA fighters, they 'stalk' their opponents and lure them into their trap. Maul did exactly that - controlled the fight, 'stalked,' lured and finally killed Jinn.