Mace v Anakin

Originally posted by Q99
1.Anakin, Dooku, and Obi-Wan have their advantages and disadvantages compared to each other, as I see it, and Palpatine or Yoda or Mace would beat any of them.
2.Why Tyranus over Anakin at all, though? I don't know of anything to put him over Anakin, or to think he'd win the majority. He may be refined, but Anakin had more power he could handle by RotS. It wasn't a lucky shot or anything, he was just overpowered.
3.I mean, am I missing some showings of his? I can't think of what'd put him on a level with Mace.

1.I do think Yoda, Palpatine, and Mace would take a majority against any of those 3. But, you can't group Tyranus with Kenobi. He's far superior to him.
2.In a 7/10 system you lose 3 matches. I believe Tyranus would be favored and what was seen onscreen accounted for one of those losses. Tyranus is alot more refined with a blade and is much superior in Force mastery. Define power? Somne argue Anakin's strikes were to strong for him because of Djem So. Kinda shaky argument when Tyranus spars with the onslaught that is Grievous.

IMO it was a combination of confusion with Sidious and Anakin's explosion? Let Tyranus face off with no Sidious or Kenobi there from the start and my money is on the Sith Lord. I know I'm in the minority in this argument so I expect a bunch of negative feedback.
3.What would put who on Mace's level?

Originally posted by truejedi
I didn't see Dooku put up a decent fight against Yoda in the force, Yoda was casually dismissing everything Dooku threw at him.

From the Force to sabers, Yoda controlled the entire battle.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
1.So you think Mace would fair much better than Dooku did against Yoda??
2.However in terms of Saber skills, Power and Mastery of the Force... Yes I definetely do see Dooku in Mace's league.
3.Iv never seen Mace own the likes of Ventress, Bulq, Vos or Obiwan, or anyone similarly powerful with the Force like Dooku has on many many occasions.

1.Yes. I do think Mace would have lasted longer against Yoda seeing how I don't see him running away. Would he win? No. But he would last longer than Tyranus would as he's superior. Tyranus would never attempt combat in any form with Sidious, whatsoever.
2.Agreed. Tyranus is very much in Mace's league when it comes to lightsaber skill. Mace has a few x-factors in Vapaad and Shatterpoint.
3.I'm pretty sure he easily defeated Depa. He easily beat Grievous before his injury. Ventress? Mace would beat her too. Tyranus is a Sith. He's going to fight Jedi. Seeing as there are only two Sith(3 if you count
Ventress) and I don't see Mace fighting his own kind......

He would later go on to defeat the most powerful Dark Side wielder of the era in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Vaapad isn't fueled solely on the basis of the opposition's anger/hatred/rage. Remember that Mace's own inner darkness provides a hell of a boost as well. Vaapad will be a factor against any version of Anakin, be it LS, DS, or t3h zoNE Anakin.

Originally posted by Galan007
I personally feel that Mace is the superior swordsman by a fair margin, but that's just me.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
What makes you say this?

Oh, well if you mean that then, yeah, I agree. But as far as actual technique and skill, I don't think Mace is on a completely different level.

Tyranus was tooling Grievous.

Vapaad IS Mace's form. Its not an additional skill to his lightsaber ability. When you speak of Vapaad, you are speaking about his ability with a lightsaber.

It also gives him advantages in combat that other forms don't. Makashi can't form any kind of superconducting loop, can it?

Lol. It doesn't matter if it IS his form or not. The fact is that it gives him an advantage against Dooku so he could beat him, just like rock can beat paper. Y: DR is clear, Mace and Dooku are equals when it comes to skills with the saber. Argue with it all you want, but you would be arguing against canon.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Oh, well if you mean that then, yeah, I agree. But as far as actual technique and skill, I don't think Mace is on a completely different level.

Tyranus was tooling Grievous.

Equals or not, Tyranus would never attempt to fight Sidious.

My post was directed to TrueJedi, but you are correct. Nor would he fare as well since he lacks Vaapad.

Originally posted by ares834
Lol. It doesn't matter if it IS his form or not. The fact is that it gives him an advantage against Dooku so he could beat him, just like rock can beat paper. Y: DR is clear, Mace and Dooku are equals when it comes to skills with the saber. Argue with it all you want, but you would be arguing against canon.

Unfortunately the quote you are using comes directly from Dooku's thoughts. The same dooku that declared himself more powerful than Yoda on Geonossis.

His ego has gotten in the way of his better judgement.

Besides that, he has also not fought or sparred with Mace in many years. He is in no position to know what Mace is capable of at this stage in the game.

It actually isn't from Dooku's thoughts.

"Yoda whipped out his blade while trying to set Whirry gently down on the cobblestones below. "Wish to hurt you, I do not!"

"That's odd," Dooku remarked. "I intend to enjoy killing you."

As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light."

touche.

Well, I will take another tact. (oh, btw before I do, i think its funny that Dooku is still thinking he was going to beat Yoda. He was really a bit of an egotist.)

My second tact is this:

"Perhaps only Mace windu would have been his equal" doesn't necessarily mean mace would have merely been his equal. Just that among the Jedi, only Mace could have been. Perhaps mace, on equal ground, would have been more than equal to Dooku. (That word PERHAPS helps me a lot.)

Originally posted by Darth Martin
1.I do think Yoda, Palpatine, and Mace would take a majority against any of those 3. But, you can't group Tyranus with Kenobi. He's far superior to him.

I think they're quite noticeably above him and that'd be a very very significant majority.

Dooku's somewhat higher than Kenobi, sure, but that doesn't put him on their level.

I think part of why he did well against Obi-Wan is his style is well-suited to slipping past Kenobi's defense, but similarly he suffered a major disadvantage against Anakin, who beat him pretty darn badly. Sure, maybe if Kenobi wasn't there it would've been closer, but it wasn't exactly a down to the wire battle, and it looked to me more like Dooku was the one who got lucky in that fight, managing to do that to Kenobi so soon.

3.What would put [B]who on Mace's level? [/B]

Dooku. What feats does he have to put him in the same level?

Dooku seemed quite clearly inferior to Yoda across the board to me. Mace, not so much, especially in saber work.

Originally posted by ares834
It actually isn't from Dooku's thoughts.

"Yoda whipped out his blade while trying to set Whirry gently down on the cobblestones below. "Wish to hurt you, I do not!"

"That's odd," Dooku remarked. "I intend to enjoy killing you."

As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, [B]perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light." [/B]

"Though Yoda's junior by hundreds of years, Mace Windu was considered his equal in terms of ability, insight, and command." - from the Jedi Sourcebook.

From that quote one could gather that Mace = Yoda > Dooku. Feel me?

Originally posted by Q99
Dooku's somewhat higher than Kenobi, sure, but that doesn't put him on their level.

Granted, Kenobi is far superior to his AOTC self but that doesn't mean Tyranus' pwning of him in ROTS wasn't justified.

When it comes to these qoutes from books, we should hold more value to the narrative, rather than character's statements. Mace is known to be incredibly humble when it comes to fellow Jedi, saying that Kenobi and Depa are better than him. Anakin probably believed he was the most powerful out of everyone. His statements will reflect that.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think that line alone is enough to say Dooku was incontrovertibly Mace's equal... Especially when quotes like this also exist to counter it:

"Though Yoda's junior by hundreds of years, Mace Windu was considered his equal in terms of ability, insight, and command." - from the Jedi Sourcebook.

From that quote one could gather that Mace = Yoda > Dooku. Feel me?

Originally posted by Q99
I think they're quite noticeably above him and that'd be a very very significant majority.

Dooku's somewhat higher than Kenobi, sure, but that doesn't put him on their level.

I think part of why he did well against Obi-Wan is his style is well-suited to slipping past Kenobi's defense, but similarly he suffered a major disadvantage against Anakin, who beat him pretty darn badly. Sure, maybe if Kenobi wasn't there it would've been closer, but it wasn't exactly a down to the wire battle, and it looked to me more like Dooku was the one who got lucky in that fight, managing to do that to Kenobi so soon.

The novelization tells us that after Kenobi was thrown away, Anakin got mad and started winning---a Darker Anakin, drawing on strength. Then Dooku calms him down with some Dun Moch, and Light Anakin returns to losing. Shortly after, Anakin "decided to win" (this is Zone Anakin). He drew on his aggression and determination and focused it right and Dooku. And won. Quite handily(see what I did there!). Zone Anakin is the most powerful and dangerous form of Anakin there is. And without his immersion in to the Dark Side that Sidious or Vader has, Mace's Vaapad isn't going to have the same superconducting effect.

Originally posted by Q99
Dooku. What feats does he have to put him in the same level?

Dooku seemed quite clearly inferior to Yoda across the board to me. Mace, not so much, especially in saber work.

Originally posted by ares834
It says "was considered" which means some people in universe belived this... This does not make it a true statement.

Secondly, the excerpt you posted actually says "perhaps only Mace would have been Dooku's equal." Who are you to criticize validity?