Mace v Anakin

its true. perhaps oshaka and kit fisto and Cin drillig and the random chick from Cestus Deception,and Anakin,and Kolar would also have been Dooku's equals, now that we using the word perhaps

Also, Dooku didn't beat Kenobi in Sabers in ROTS, he took him out with the force. It wasn't a wtf pwn kinda thing.

Originally posted by Galan007
First off, the statement I posted doesn't say "Windu was considered BY MOST" -- it says "Windu was considered [Yoda's] equal." That is a blanket term if I've ever seen one. There is no speculation left to be had.

Secondly, the excerpt you posted actually says "perhaps only Mace would have been Dooku's equal." Who are you to criticize validity?

to be fair, considered is just as true as perhaps.

The way I see it there are three ways of interpreting the Y: DR quote.
1. Mace windu might be Dooku's equal.
2. Dooku might be Windu's equal.
3. Mace Windu is Dooku's equal, and perhaps no other Jedi is.
Personally, I interpret the quote as 3.

Originally posted by ares834
Considered does not mean its true. And ability in what? Diplomancy, saber combat, it does not say what.

And keep in mind that I am not trying to use the statement I posted as evidence. It was only a 'tool' used to demonstrate why your Dooku=Mace line of logic is flawed. A single line (and in your case, an inconclusive one at that) doesn't mean much.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

And where do you come off saying Mace is "not so much" inferior to Yoda. I'm curious. Don't tote some A>B>C crap like Mace>Dooku and Yoda>Dooku ergo Mace=almost Yoda? Where's the magnitude setting?

Mace was tied or beating someone who tied or beat Yoda.

Yea, I know, Vapaad (Vapaad's advantages against the dark side being why I rate him lower despite doing quite well against Palp's lightning), and yea, I know, 'A-B-C logic,' though I'll note just saying "ABC" doesn't mean we aren't getting useful comparison from the fights. The fights are where we get information to compare them in the first place.

Also, in the Clone Wars (both shows) I've been way more impressed with Mace in general.

Mace has fought with top-tier Sith, Dooku's boss, on even terms. Dooku has fought with top-tier Jedi and was clearly disadvantaged. From this, I get that Mace is most likely a top-tier Jedi himself and that Dooku was most likely not a top-tier Sith.

Though I'll mentioned even though I'm using the duels as examples, that's just because they're easy to bring up. The biggest reason I don't think Dooku is a top-tier force user on their level is because I haven't seen any feats that'd put him there.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, in the Clone Wars (both shows) I've been way more impressed with Mace in general.

It's true, Dooku doesn't have a lot of Force-credentials to his name. But the in-mythos battles don't play out like we make them here. There is no "saber only" fights. And if every duel that Dooku has been in that cemented him as being tier with Mace (before Dooku was a Sith) has been done without any offensive/defensive Force powers... then Dooku and everybody he's ever faced are f*cking retarded.

I'll say this, in case it hasn't been. Dooku (in some source I don't remember) was, as a Jedi Master, the only Jedi besides Yoda able to stymie Mace. Since then, Dooku has increased his power when joining the Sith, and Mace has perfected Vaapad. In any strict, no-holds/variables duel between them, Mace will win with his shatterpoint and Vaapad's advantage over Tyranus.

And we can't be using the TV shows as the lone source of our feats. The cartoon was hideously exaggerated (yet awesome), and as far as I'm aware, the CGI have butchered any sense of feasibility. Not to mention, Sidious isn't exactly popping any caps any b*tches asses on TV and we know him for a fact to be>>>anyone who isn't Yoda or doesn't have Vaapad.

Tyranus was #2 Sith for a reason, and he was top-tier Jedi Master for a reason too. His saber skills (as we nerds all know are runner-up only to Sidious, Mace, Yoda, and Anakin [Zone Anakin I might add]) beat through the defenses of the greatest defensive swordsman in the galaxy. A couple times. Obi-Wan is f*cking amazing, but he's just not up there with ^ them lot.

Mace ROFLcopter, Vaapad>Tyranus FTW.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
1.The cartoon was hideously exaggerated (yet awesome),
2.His saber skills beat through the defenses of the greatest defensive swordsman in the galaxy. A couple times.

1.Which one?
2.When?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
1.Which one?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
2.When?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Both, probably. I've refused to watch the CGI. The cartoon was amazing but the Force powers Jedi used in that were on the scale of the gods.

The CGI is surprisingly good at times, much better than I expected.

It's not over the top in the same way. It's Grievous is closer to movie Grievous, though still with plenty of badass moments, for example.

Also some nice clone episodes.

I was disappointed by the animation. Seemed too cornered, and straight-edged. Nothing smooth about it. Toy Story's is superior. The stories are geared towards traditional weekly arcs. Bad guys lose. The likes of Dooku, Grievous, and Ventress go from being f*cking badass in the movies/cartoon to being... you know, cartoonish.

I think it was the lack of dialogue in the cartoon that made it great. Not as many silly moments designed for comic relief. I've seen Jar Jar in the CGI. He was conspicuously absent from the cartoon. Wonder why.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I was disappointed by the animation. Seemed too cornered, and straight-edged. Nothing smooth about it. Toy Story's is superior.

True, but weekly TV show budget, and it gets better.

The stories are geared towards traditional weekly arcs. Bad guys lose. The likes of Dooku, Grievous, and Ventress go from being f*cking badass in the movies/cartoon to being... you know, cartoonish.

They do get their badass moments. Grievous gets to kill Jedi and all that.

Quality varies a bit. Some episodes are eh, some are pretty good.

I think it was the lack of dialogue in the cartoon that made it great. Not as many silly moments designed for comic relief. I've seen Jar Jar in the CGI. He was conspicuously absent from the cartoon. Wonder why.

He's pretty rare in the CGI, not a regular.

And the CGI does a very important thing that the movies didn't (to me at least): Make Anakin likable as a person. Here's a guy who you can look up to as a hero of the republic and it'd be a great tragedy if he fell, while at the same time showing some of the darkness that'll lead to what happens.

Anakin always did lack depth to his character. RotS novelization corrected that.

Also: Clone Wars Gambit, Stealth, is correcting that in a big way.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
1.Both, probably. I've refused to watch the CGI. The cartoon was amazing but the Force powers Jedi used in that were on the scale of the gods.
2.AotC. Granted, Kenobi wasn't the Soresu master yet. Dooku Force-flicked him away in RotS.

I don't know how people can rate Sidious as one of the best Swordsman in terms of actual skill. As far as I know he has no other feats except killing Tiin, Kolar and Fisto which was really a display of much superior force-power, since they were simply overwhelmed by his speed and not skill. Apart from that he really hasn't beaten anyone (correct me if I'm wrong here) and by RotS hasn't touched a lightsaber for over 10 years.
In his fight with Mace it was once again his superior speed that made it an even fight but once the superconducting loop started to kick in and Mace matched the emperor's speed, "The fighting was effortless for him now" (RotS novel) because it now came down to skill only and Sidious effin' sucked. 😐

In case of Dooku there is no superior speed that could be evened up by vapaad and so it all comes down to actual skill with the lightsaber. Hence, they are equals.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And if every duel that Dooku has been in that cemented him as being tier with Mace (before Dooku was a Sith) has been done without any offensive/defensive Force powers... then Dooku and everybody he's ever faced are f*cking retarded.

Wait, I don't understand. So every fight Dooku has ever been in... was PIS?

I'll say this, in case it hasn't been. Dooku (in some source I don't remember) was, as a Jedi Master, the only Jedi besides Yoda able to stymie Mace.

Qui-Gon

Since then, Dooku has increased his power when joining the Sith

How so?

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
I don't know how people can rate Sidious as one of the best Swordsman in terms of actual skill. As far as I know he has no other feats except killing Tiin, Kolar and Fisto which was really a display of much superior force-power, since they were simply overwhelmed by his speed and not skill. Apart from that he really hasn't beaten anyone (correct me if I'm wrong here) and by RotS hasn't touched a lightsaber for over 10 years.
In his fight with Mace it was once again his superior speed that made it an even fight but once the superconducting loop started to kick in and Mace matched the emperor's speed, "The fighting was effortless for him now" (RotS novel) because it now came down to skill only and Sidious effin' sucked. 😐

In case of Dooku there is no superior speed that could be evened up by vapaad and so it all comes down to actual skill with the lightsaber. Hence, they are equals.

Reading that wasn't even worth the calorie I burned from moving my eyes across the screen.

Originally posted by Shoes
Wait, I don't understand. So every fight Dooku has ever been in... was PIS?

Originally posted by Shoes
[b]Qui-Gon[/B]

Originally posted by Shoes
How so?