Superman Vs Captain Marvel

Started by cdtm18 pages

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree with Pr; whatever Superman did was ambigious. His eyes glowing red, while typically an indicator of heat vision, doesn't always equal heat vision. Considering we don't see actual beams of heat striking Adam, just movement lines, I think it's just as likely, if not more so, that Superman simply struck him. Conversely, we do see smoke wafting off of Adam's body, which could either be from the crater like impact he made, or the aftermath of heat vision.

Adam certainly didn't "scream like a *****", and once he got to his feet, seemed no worse for the wear.

The two lines going towards his chest are out of place for movement lines.

Who draws them leading right up to the chest like that? I think they're meant to be hv.

Plus, Supes was holding the woman just before the attack. He "could" have dropped her and punched him, I guess.

And not to nitpick, but even Adams pain dialog is off for being hit by a punch, instead of burned.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course not.

But when his statements are supported by feats and are mentioned time and time again with more evidence supporting them than dismissing them, they cease to be just nice compliments and start becoming valid points.


What feat indicates that he is superman's equal? Needing to amp himself temporarily to match superman twice or failing to onepunch superman with weakness exploitation while he himself has been onepunched by a beaten j'onn or shouting in pain in their handshake. Yes jake he has always started his fights with a suckerpunch, in first eclipso fight superman was fighting JLI when he attacked him from behind, in superman/batman he started with a speeding suckerpunch to head, in virtue and vice he suckerpunched after gaining momentum etc. The only exceptions are Man of steel 102 and POS 46 where superman was trying to calm him down and marvel was frothing from mouth.

Originally posted by cdtm
The two lines going towards his chest are out of place for movement lines.

Who draws them leading right up to the chest like that? I think they're meant to be hv.

It could be HV, but the lack of coloring makes it suspect.

Artistic error? Perhaps. I can see why it would be considered ambiguous.

Either way, Adam endured an attack from Superman, stood up, and wasn't explicitly injured or hurt outside of his initial exclamation.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I am.

I'm nervous to see how Geoff re-introduces Billy to the new continuity, but also excited. My primary fear is that he's going to wind up introducing Black Adam and letting his love for Teth go too far *cough*likeSinestro*cough*. At this point, I'd rather Cap just stand on his own with no CM3 or Mary Marvel and no team affiliations.

Hopefully.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It could be HV, but the lack of coloring makes it suspect.

Artistic error? Perhaps. I can see why it would be considered ambiguous.

Either way, Adam endured an attack from Superman, stood up, and wasn't explicitly injured or hurt outside of his initial exclamation.

It's going to take a lot from either man to hurt the other, imo. Even in that fight they were hitting each other without it seeming to do any significant damage.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What feat indicates that he is superman's equal? Needing to amp himself temporarily to match superman twice or failing to onepunch superman with weakness exploitation while he himself has been onepunched by a beaten j'onn or shouting in pain in their handshake. Yes jake he has always started his fights with a suckerpunch, in first eclipso fight superman was fighting JLI when he attacked him from behind, in superman/batman he started with a speeding suckerpunch to head, in virtue and vice he suckerpunched after gaining momentum etc. The only exceptions are Man of steel 102 and POS 46 where superman was trying to calm him down and marvel was frothing from mouth.

When he has amped twice? He's only amped explicitly once, and that was when they arm wrestled and considering Cap has never had to use Atlas' strength to hang with Superman physically before it really doesn't mean jack. Further more, his powerset compliments itself. Is Superman stronger than Hercules? Yes. But while Hercules is the primary benefactor of Cap's strength, the Power of Zeus and Stamina of Atlas work in conjunction in contributing to Cap's overall physical prowess, which, in totality, makes him equal to Superman. You want to say Superman's gotten better as time progressed? Yeah, so has Cap. Superman not getting one shotted by someone in his strength class with magically enhanced fists holding back is a high end feat and Cap being one shotted by J'onn is likewise a high end showing for the Martian while not being one of Cap's.

Superman would know who his equals are better than you and I, and considering he inhabited the same body as Captain Marvel and almost lost his Kryptonian cookies over the staggering level of power Cap weilded, that statement, coupled with the fact that it's not the first time he's said that, combined with the fact that Cap routinely matches Superman leads me and most people to think that barring some insane high end out of the norm circumstances, yeah, Superman and Cap are equals. The company and most of its writers agree. You can disagree with them and dislike it, but again, that's just the reality of the situation.

I generally view Cap the same way I view Darkseid or Orion. They're always going to be written as peers of Superman at least in some relative sense regardless of feats/amps, tbh.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
When he has amped twice? He's only amped explicitly once, and that was when they arm wrestled and considering Cap has never had to use Atlas' strength to hang with Superman physically before it really doesn't mean jack. Further more, his powerset compliments itself. Is Superman stronger than Hercules? Yes. But while Hercules is the primary benefactor of Cap's strength, the Power of Zeus and Stamina of Atlas work in conjunction in contributing to Cap's overall physical prowess, which, in totality, makes him equal to Superman. You want to say Superman's gotten better as time progressed? Yeah, so has Cap. Superman not getting one shotted by someone in his strength class with magically enhanced fists holding back is a high end feat and Cap being one shotted by J'onn is likewise a high end showing for the Martian while not being one of Cap's.

Superman would know who his equals are better than you and I, and considering he inhabited the same body as Captain Marvel and almost lost his Kryptonian cookies over the staggering level of power Cap weilded, that statement, coupled with the fact that it's not the first time he's said that, combined with the fact that Cap routinely matches Superman leads me and most people to think that barring some insane high end out of the norm circumstances, yeah, Superman and Cap are equals. The company and most of its writers agree. You can disagree with them and dislike it, but again, that's just the reality of the situation.


So if we go by character statements then almost everyone in JLA is more powerful than entire league. So when cap catches someone's fists he surrounds his hands with lightning, eh? He was sweating profusely when he added atlas' stamina into his strength, it's safe to assume that his durability was lowered when he did that. So everything in which cap failed is a low showing for him while a high showing for others. Cap failing to ko superman is a high showing for superman once you show me him failing against BLUNT force of magic. It was due to magic that superman felt that way, he has held Spear of Destiny, absorbed an entire sun and never said "Whoa, its too much power". The same thing happened with Mjolnir due to magic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What feat indicates that he is superman's equal? Needing to amp himself temporarily to match superman twice or failing to onepunch superman with weakness exploitation while he himself has been onepunched by a beaten j'onn or shouting in pain in their handshake. Yes jake he has always started his fights with a suckerpunch, in first eclipso fight superman was fighting JLI when he attacked him from behind, in superman/batman he started with a speeding suckerpunch to head, in virtue and vice he suckerpunched after gaining momentum etc. The only exceptions are Man of steel 102 and POS 46 where superman was trying to calm him down and marvel was frothing from mouth.

It does seem like Cap usually hits Superman from behind.

But Power of Shazam 46 was awful for Cap. Even with the Chain Lightning excuse, he came off looking like a whiny kid.

Funny how Cap's best character portrayals usually come from outside his solo series, like JLA or Superman comics.

Originally posted by cdtm
It does seem like Cap usually hits Superman from behind.

But Power of Shazam 46 was awful for Cap. Even with the Chain Lightning excuse, he came off looking like a whiny kid.

Funny how Cap's best character portrayals usually come from outside his solo series, like JLA or Superman comics.

That's how I used to feel about Wonder Woman.

freeze breath, hv, more fighting experience, better fighting skill, and vibration through attack ability would give Superman the majority here.
No need to argue the strength debate.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cap can dodge and out race his own lightning. He has to stand still and allow the bolt to hit him to trigger the transformation to and from Billy Batson.

Not to mention that he can unleash lightning in expansive areas outside of yelling Shazam such as when he amps his fist or makes lightning fueled tackles.

If Cap dodges his own lightning then it hits nothing so what's the use? He can't make the lightning go anywhere but where he was standing when he said Shazam.

Plus I feel a little desperation here for CM. You obviously have him fighting in ways he never really has shown in a one on one situation. But I'll accept it.

The only time Cap really looked inferior to Superman in a fight was that first Eclipso one. In the second, it was painfully obvious that Cap was holding back and even so, perfectly capable of holding his own against Eclipso Superman. Superman requiring three sucker punches of Cap's to go down is an extremely good and high showing of Superman's resistence to magic, no doubt about it. But considering how well Cap has fared against Superman without explicitly amping his punches (which is a fairly new power of Cap's all things considered) or without bombarding him with Shazam bolts or lightning fueled quakes, it says a lot.

Again, CM can't bombard Supes with Shazam bolts or lightning fueld quakes (since Superman could just stay in the air). His best chance is to physically strike Superman with an amped fist. But Superman can slow him with the freeze breath.

You can't cling to these claims of Cap's obvious inferiority (which really doesn't exist) and in the same breath ignore the multiple claims of Kal's concession that "we're too evenly matched" or "You're more equal in my every way" or "I had no idea what kind of power you possessed, Billy". The reality of the situation is that 9 times out of 10, Captain Marvel is going to stalemate or hold his own against Superman if and when they clash. That's just how it is. Agree with it or not, but them's the breaks.
Your philosophy is wrong. This is not a comic fight where characters are shown not to be fighting at their best most of the time. So of course Superman would be shown to stalemate CM often. But in a forum fight is a different story. And Supes will own CM due to his extra versatility of HV, freeze breath, and of course vibrate through attack ability.

Case in point, you may feel that Superman is >>> Cap, but, really, the majority of comics don't support that at all.

That's because Superman wasn't fighting at his best. We didn't see any of Supes freeze breath tactics, HV tactics, pressure point and martial art ability, vibrate through attacks, etc. when they faced. All we seen over 99% of the time was man to man physical fighting between the two. Get the point?

Originally posted by h1a8

His advantages outweighs CM's advantages

We have for Superman:
4. Freeze breath to slow CM down

6. Blow breath, again to slow CM a little

Superman freezes CM to slow his speed down by at least 10% while using his extra skill to hit CM far more times than CM hits him. Also we have HV which would tax CM's health in the fight and blow breath which would slow CM down another 1-5%.

So you think freeze breath and blow breath will slow Marvel down for Supes, and yet in the other thread you dnt think Thor, with all his exotic powers and complete weather control and manipulation, could even deal with Supes speed??

Hmm interesting.. I might be sensing a bit of bias here 😛

^Don't pay him any attention darth. But he is actually right, freeze breath has incapacitated Bizarro, when did Thor used his weather control to slow down a speedster?

Originally posted by h1a8
You obviously have him fighting in ways he never really has shown in a one on one situation. But I'll accept it.

The level of irony in this statement is over 9000.

You do realize that essentially almost all your arguments for how a character fights is never how they actually fight on panel?

I'm not even going to bother with the numbers and percentages you literally just pulled out of nowhere.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^Don't pay him any attention darth. But he is actually right, freeze breath has incapacitated Bizarro, when did Thor used his weather control to slow down a speedster?

He used hurricanes to incapacitate Gladiator.

^ Ok. Can you give any scans?

It's not the real Gladiator so it doesnt matter.

Yeah, the real Gladiator was almost murdered by Masterson Thor.

No, carveriator would pwn both superman and thor at the same time.superdur durthor

Originally posted by abhilegend
^Don't pay him any attention darth. But he is actually right, freeze breath has incapacitated Bizarro,

He did!

No idea why he hv'd the ground beneath him first though. If it was to well up water, that would make sense, but he brought up fire instead.