Shadowcat should be maybe replace X-23. She was embued with the knowledge of Ogun was she not? And has had roughly a decade of training with the X-Men; under Wolverine, Cyclops etc.
Whereas X-23 has only been shown to have had one MA teacher or sensei, and though she is an exceptionally skilled fighter she relies more on slashing her opponents with her claws than engaging in H2H combat.
Originally posted by The Pict
I didn't see Mister X on the list?
Can anyone explain this? Or is he under a different name or something? He is one of Marvel's premier MA.
If we go for the whole bumping down people to fourth in order to distinguish them from the 3rd tier more clearly
I vote
Aquaman to fourth
Ares to fourth
Beta ray to fourth
Black bolt to fourth
Doom to fourth
Strange to fourth
Kalibak to fourth
Lobo to fourth
Loki to fourth
Namor to fourth
Nightcrawler to fourth
Thor to fourth
Strange to fourth
However I'm against Hercules to fourth.
He might know only one style (wrestling) but he is a master at that.
And of course against Superman to 3rd.
If all this guys get bumped down, then Clark has even more clearly no place in 3rd
Also for Majestros to 3rd
Originally posted by The Pict
Shadowcat should be maybe replace X-23. She was embued with the knowledge of Ogun was she not? And has had roughly a decade of training with the X-Men; under Wolverine, Cyclops etc.
Whereas X-23 has only been shown to have had one MA teacher or sensei, and though she is an exceptionally skilled fighter she relies more on slashing her opponents with her claws than engaging in H2H combat.Can anyone explain this? Or is he under a different name or something? He is one of Marvel's premier MA.
Kitty left the X-Men and went to school though. She let her training flat line, for a while she had the potential to be the second best fighter in the X-Men but not any more. She's possibly still one of the X-Men top 5, but not rival for X-23 IMO.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Kitty left the X-Men and went to school though. She let her training flat line, for a while she had the potential to be the second best fighter in the X-Men but not any more. She's possibly still one of the X-Men top 5, but not rival for X-23 IMO.
She wasn't gone for very long though. And her skills hardly diminished.
I bought her mini Shadow and Flame and the skills imparted to her by Ogun were still in sharp form. A group of skilled ninjas and assassins wanted her to lead them (after she fought them off)
I'm a big fan of both Kitty and Laura. And they are both incredibly skilled, but to me as Kitty has been training longer* (we only ever saw Laura run simulations that compared her to Wolverine, and being trained by one sensei before she was tricked into killing him) and under various masters of MA I assume she's a better martial artist.
I don't doubt Laura is a better fighter, but her skills seem more along the lines of swift assassination techniques (what she was originally created for) rather than engaging other fighters and improving her MA ability.
shrug Just my opinion of course. It would be nice to see what the writers of Marvel thought and had them sparring or some such in the future now that Kitty has returned.
*Edit: Including the knowledge and skills of Ogun on top of her own training.
Originally posted by The Pict
She wasn't gone for very long though. And her skills hardly diminished.I bought her mini Shadow and Flame and the skills imparted to her by Ogun were still in sharp form. A group of skilled ninjas and assassins wanted her to lead them (after she fought them off)
I'm a big fan of both Kitty and Laura. And they are both incredibly skilled, but to me as Kitty has been training longer* (we only ever saw Laura run simulations that compared her to Wolverine, and being trained by one sensei before she was tricked into killing him) and under various masters of MA I assume she's a better martial artist.
I don't doubt Laura is a better fighter, but her skills seem more along the lines of swift assassination techniques (what she was originally created for) rather than engaging other fighters and improving her MA ability.
shrug Just my opinion of course. It would be nice to see what the writers of Marvel thought and had them sparring or some such in the future now that Kitty has returned.
*Edit: Including the knowledge and skills of Ogun on top of her own training.
It's hard to say how long she was gone for with the sliding time scale of the X-Men, but it seems to me that the time she was gone was disproportional large for the window it took place in. She is in her mid to late twenties now, she was still a teen-ager when she left. Comics and their time scale, what are you going to do? The Power Pack were all the same age as Franklin Richards, now they are all in their late teens, early twenties and Franklin Richards is like eight... wtf. I thinking someone has been pulling a Dr. Venture.
Originally posted by The Pict
Shadowcat should be maybe replace X-23. She was embued with the knowledge of Ogun was she not? And has had roughly a decade of training with the X-Men; under Wolverine, Cyclops etc.
Whereas X-23 has only been shown to have had one MA teacher or sensei, and though she is an exceptionally skilled fighter she relies more on slashing her opponents with her claws than engaging in H2H combat.
Well, we've only seen one fleshy sensei, but there's also the matter that they were programming her with all of Logan's skills they could, trying to give her a carbon copy of his fighting ability.
She was raised in a bunker with nothing but fighting training, practically from birth, after all. That helps more than what Kitty's had.
Originally posted by Q99
Well, we've only seen one fleshy sensei, but there's also the matter that they were programming her with all of Logan's skills they could, trying to give her a carbon copy of his fighting ability.She was raised in a bunker with nothing but fighting training, practically from birth, after all. That helps more than what Kitty's had.
Kitty was stripped of all her knowledge, mystically de-aged and the retrained from infancy to adult hood in combat by the best swordsman who ever lived.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's hard to say how long she was gone for with the sliding time scale of the X-Men, but it seems to me that the time she was gone was disproportional large for the window it took place in. She is in her mid to late twenties now, she was still a teen-ager when she left. Comics and their time scale, what are you going to do? The Power Pack were all the same age as Franklin Richards, now they are all in their late teens, early twenties and Franklin Richards is like eight... wtf. I thinking someone has been pulling a Dr. Venture.
Is Kitty as old as that? I thought she was in her early twenties? I remember something about Xavier wanting to put her in the New X-Men team becuase she was in their age group. And fairly recently they were said to only be 3/4 years older than the likes of Prodigy and (particularly) Elixir. I honestly thought she was only gone for a couple of years. Besides wasn't some of her time away spent with Excalibur?
Originally posted by Q99
Well, we've only seen one fleshy sensei, but there's also the matter that they were programming her with all of Logan's skills they could, trying to give her a carbon copy of his fighting ability.She was raised in a bunker with nothing but fighting training, practically from birth, after all. That helps more than what Kitty's had.
Kitty was imbued with the skills of Ogun don't forget.
I know what you're saying but it appears that X-23 was trained to assassinate rather than fight.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Kitty was stripped of all her knowledge, mystically de-aged and the retrained from infancy to adult hood in combat by the best swordsman who ever lived.
Happened to me once.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Very well.Aquaman to fourth
Ares to fourth
Beta ray to fourth
Black bolt to fourth
Doom to fourth
Strange to fourth
Hercules to fourth
Kalibak to fourth
Lobo to fourth
Loki to fourth
Namor to fourth
Nightcrawler to fourth
Thor to fourthThe Question (Vic Sage) to second
😂
I knew this shit would happen eventually.
You all suck.
Originally posted by comicfan11
If we go for the whole bumping down people to fourth in order to distinguish them from the 3rd tier more clearlyI vote
Aquaman to fourth
Ares to fourth
Beta ray to fourth
Black bolt to fourth
Doom to fourth
Strange to fourth
Kalibak to fourth
Lobo to fourth
Loki to fourth
Namor to fourth
Nightcrawler to fourth
Thor to fourth
Strange to fourthAnd of course against Superman to 3rd.
If all this guys get bumped down, then Clark has even more clearly no place in 3rd
If ALL of these guys get bumped down to 4th tier, I'll gladly retract my proposal for Superman to 3rd tier. 🙂
Batdude123I knew this shit would happen eventually.
You all suck.
Third tier was getting crowded anyway 🙂
Originally posted by The Pict
I know what you're saying but it appears that X-23 was trained to assassinate rather than fight.
She was trained to take down a target- whether this is by stealth or head on, she'll go for the most efficient way.
When trying to kill Logan, Laura faced him head-on and did well.