Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When I read it, I thought the "and the men I left alive" was a reference to the last batch of Secret Survive left standing when the helicopter took off, not everyone prior to that. /shrug

Killing every Secret Service agent save two dozen would bring a sh1tstorm to Fury's camp (which hasn't happened). Phobos killing nearly every Secret Service agent would send him straight into the deep end of supervillain territory (which isn't even hinted at in the Siege epilogues or ongoing Secret Warriors series. Seriously? Those were innocent men. He'd be one of the most infamous villains in the Marvel U after that. You'd think Captain Rogers or Maria Hill would forgive that?

Phobos is just that good. And that was one of the points of the reveal at the end. He didn't fatally wound ANY of them. Because Phobos is just that good.

Against Phobos to second.

Weapons skill doesn't come into play in this thread IIRC, and frankly just because they're called the secret service doesn't mean they aren't glorified cannon fodder.

You must have missed half the thread since melee weapons do come into play here. So you can retract the entire basis for your first objection. Which is irrelevant anyway, since Phobos did go H2H.

And you also must have missed that despite them being cannon fodder, Phobos assaulted them with no powers, two swords and their own guns, without fatally injuring ANY of them. So you must have missed that were Phobos not holding back, he would have wrecked them with far more ease, and been untouched (much less unharmed).

And I must have missed where you were able to point out a single character who could do what Phobos did in the third tier. I also missed where you point out anybody in the third tier, much less the second tier, who could demolish a group of deomns blinf-folded. Oh that's right... I didn't miss it, you just couldn't respond.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Against Phobos to second.

Weapons skill doesn't come into play in this thread IIRC, and frankly just because they're called the secret service doesn't mean they aren't glorified cannon fodder.

I disagree with that statement just because they happen to be canon fodder doesn't make the feat any less impressive. Some canon fodder are better than others.

I couldn't see third tiers doing that.

Drax went through countless Annihilus bugs and nobody is bumping him up.

Originally posted by Bentley
Drax went through countless Annihilus bugs and nobody is bumping him up.

Not even all normal bugs, there were giant 100 foot monster bugs as well.

Originally posted by Bentley
Drax went through countless Annihilus bugs and nobody is bumping him up.

Hes not a 9 year old kid? He didn't do it without fatally injuring them?

And thats ode to his Martial Arts prowess or his Natural strength and durability?

Originally posted by Juk3n
And thats ode to his Martial Arts prowess or his Natural strength and durability?

Who Phobos? I don't think he has super strength.....hmmmm. Not sure if that would change anything.

Age and martial skills shouldn't be really related if you know the moves and can back them up. Drax went melee against hordes of bugs and has shown martial art skills, he should be by all means be compared to Phobos if we go by beating fodder. Does anyone know if Phobos has enhanced status?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When I read it, I thought the "and the men I left alive" was a reference to the last batch of Secret Survive left standing when the helicopter took off, not everyone prior to that. /shrug

Same here...

^ And... had, let's say, Deadpool been trying to send a message to J. Jonah Jameson for some stupid actions JJJ was responsible for as NYC Mayor... and he stormed his office and killed dozens of NYPD, and left only a few alive... you wouldn't think that would completely villainize Deadpool as an irredeemable super-villain, rather than anti-hero?

I'm not sure exactly how you assumed Phobos would jump off the deep end like this and do something even worse than the hypothetical situation I just outlined... and be completely given a free pass by all the heroes and the government?

If Phobos did really want to go all psycho on them, why didn't he just lop off their hands, arms, run them through with his sword, or shoot any of them in the head? There isn't even a mention of any of the Secret Service agents commenting on how they're all dying. They're just commenting on how they can't stop Phobos and some of the Secret Service agents are even giving him a chance to surrender since he's a kid. Why would you offer surrender to a kid that just slaughtered a few dozen of your men?

And taking the possible interpretations to their logical conclusion, what do you have? You can have (i) Phobos going absolute psycho and needlessly killing innocent people and taking an inexplicable turn into irredeemable super-villainry -- that hasn't had any consequences or been followed up since... or (ii) Phobos just demonstrating that within his small frame, he contains a surprising amount of pure bad-assery befitting the son of the God of War -- surprising only if you hadn't read the Ares miniseries anyway.

Exactly which situation makes more sense here? I think it's pretty obvious.

Hello. I am alive.

And I'm currently sifting through the last 12 pages for votes. Proposed changes update to come afterwards.

Notes:
-People should examine their older votes and see if they still stand now that a significant number of characters have been moved. Particularly on movements into/out of the third tier and particularly for the Superman vote - presumably people will be retracting their "For" votes.

-The voting system has been amended slightly, although for the most part a three-vote majority will generally apply.
Total Votes | Majority Needed
3-11 | 3-vote majority
12-16 | 4-vote majority
17-19 | 5-vote majority
20+ | 63% in favor/opposed

-The following additions will be made in the next update unless there's opposition.
Mister Majestic to third: 5 [comicfan, Ize, Jake, dmills, Omega] / 0
Kang to third: 3 [Jake, Omega, Bentley] / 0
Master Izo to uber: 3 [Ize, dmills, srank] / 0

-There is one top tier Marvel slot currently open. I will be counting affirmative votes for the contenders only, as a vote for one is essentially a vote against the other.

-"Write-in votes" of other characters are also acceptable but without additional support they'll probably end up being discarded, as with Sabretooth, X23 etc. Although I can also tally "No votes" indicating you think neither deserves the top tier spot.

-I should note that movement of either Canary down without replacement will simply result in a vacant DC top tier slot.

Proposed Additions' Entry Points
Nemesis (Charis Adrastea) to second tier: 2 [comicfan, Style] /
Kanto to second tier: 2 [Omega, comicfan] /
Mera to third: 1 [Omega] / 1 [comicfan]
Tombstone to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Juggernaut to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Faora to second:1 [Omega] /
Savant (BoP) to second: 3 [marwash, Pr, Q99] / 1 [Konton]
King Snake to third: 1 [marwash] / 1 [Phil]
Master Po to uber: 2 [Ize, srank] /
Magog to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] /
Shado to fourth: 2 [marwash, Omega] /
Seven Deadly Brothers to ???: Prep-Man
Phobos to second: 2 [ODG, Omega] / 4 [MM, iceman, Stiltman, SuperiorTech]
Phobos to third: 3 [iceman, Stiltman, SuperiorTech]
Batman 1 Million: 2 [Omega, Q99]

Proposed Changes
Moon Knight to second: 7 [Trackz, dmills, Ize, llagrok, Fake McCoy, Deadline, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, capt, endrict, Blanket, YFZ]
Gamora to uber: 9 [battlehammer, Spire, batdude, marwash, Ize, dmills, Q99, jalek, srank] / 7 [Kurupt, galactisishere, Tyrant, ODG, Blanket, Smurph, SuperiorTech]
Drakon to uber: 1 [Q99] / 3 [Juk3n, Pr, Konton]
Black Canary to second: 9 [Juk3n, Phil, Jake, Spire, Kurupt, MM, Omega, Pr, ODG] / 6 [X, batdude, marwash, srank, Konton, Q99]
Ares (Marvel) to second: 2 [ODG, comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Gorgon to uber: 2 [srank, Trackz] / 2 [AlmightyK, Juk3n]
Drax to second: 3 [dmills, AlmightyK, Bentley] / 2 [Kurupt, Battlehammer]
Superman to third: 11 [Battlehammer, Jake, srank, Style, Omega, twigg, Spire, Phil, batdude, Pr, ODG] / 10 [Ize, jugg74, Q99, dmills, comicfan, RAGE, Kurupt, Blanket, MM, marwash]
Nick Fury to third: 2 [Juk3n, Q99] / 3 [Ize, jalek, battlehammer]
Blue Devil to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] / 0
Katana to second: 1 [marwash]
Prodigy to second: 1 [Trackz] /
Question to second: 1 [MM] / 1 [marwash]
Hercules to fourth: 6 [Spire, marwash, batdude, Ize, dmills, MM] / 5 [ODG, Jake, comicfan, jalek, Kurupt]
Punisher to second: 12 [Kurupt, Q99, snoop, dmills, Trackz, jalek, ODG, Juk3n, YFZ, Deadline, Konton, MM] / 9 [Battlehammer, Phil, Style, comicfan, Omega, Kurupt, marwash, batdude, iceman]
Jason Blood to third: 1 [MM]
Ozymandias to third: 1 [MM]
Hawkman to third: 1 [MM]
Ares (DC) to fourth: 1 [MM]
Bane to second: 3 [Omega, batdude, Phil] / 0
Mongul Jr to fourth: 1 [Omega]
Forerunner to third: 1 [Omega]
Adam Warlock to second: 3 [Omega, Bentley, Q99] / 1 [ODG]

Nominations for the Marvel Top Tier slot:
Black Panther: 4 [comicfan, Trackz, Bentley, Darth Martin?, Rage?]
Psylocke: 6 [Ize, Konton, dmills, srank, Omega, marwash]
Gorgon: 2 [Juk3n, Phil]

P.S. I don't think I've missed any votes, but if I have or have made any mistakes then let me know/repost them.

Not going to do any hierarchy updating yet, so people have time to vote on these proposals.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Against Phobos to second.

Weapons skill doesn't come into play in this thread IIRC, and frankly just because they're called the secret service doesn't mean they aren't glorified cannon fodder.

though impressive I think it being blown up to a level I simply dont think it on.

to the rest of the thread

though this is not to say the feat is not impressive, also I keep seeing the no powers comment? how do you know he used no powers? like all gods and haft god they al posses a level of superhuman physical prowesses so why would it be assumed he was not using it?

If weapon skill is being factor in which I think is a very bad idea and should be seperate many people need to be moved and I would be changing my vote for against moon knight to second tier to for.

Madame Masque for second tier. She nearly took down 5 shield agents with her hands tied behind her back literially. A couple of the agents had their guns in their hands but Masque was still too fast for them. She was also stalemating Spider Woman in a scrappy fight.

Originally posted by Deadline
Madame Masque for second tier. She nearly took down 5 shield agents with her hands tied behind her back literially. A couple of the agents had their guns in their hands but Masque was still too fast for them. She was also stalemating Spider Woman in a scrappy fight.

Whitney got beaten by Pepper Potts.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Whitney got beaten by Pepper Potts.

I don't know much about Pepper Potts but if shes crap at h2h it contradicts everything else.

Battlehammer, withdraw your vote against Drax uhuh