LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

I doubt Scream is sore, he is likely just growing impatient.

No character of human size, no matter how strong they are, can stop something more than 600 times their own weight (to low ball) without some kind of anchor, period, unless they have a power that either anchors them or makes them a reality warper.

This seems to be lost on an opposition dead set on ignoring everything they can about the franchise up against their own favourite. According to Quanchi a little bit of skill lets you lift and throw many tons of weight. haermm ..Yeah, no.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What? You can't throw any gorons without the iron boots. That's a part of the game you can't get around the fact he needs gear to pull this off.

No. How many times must I say this? There are two things going on here:
1. Link needs the Iron Boots to weigh enough that he won't be pushed back by the Goron.
2. Link does not need the Iron Boots to lift the Goron off the ground and toss it.

You're still stuck on 1, while I have moved to the more impressive 2, where Link does not need the weight that the boots provide in order to throw a Goron. Forget the Iron Boots. They are not important after the Goron stops moving.

It's not when you consider he needed gear to do so. He needs gear to challenge any goron so like I said it's not a strength feat per say of anything Link can do to any goron without the necessary gear.

Once again:
1. He needed gear to STOP the Goron.

2. He did not need gear to THROW the Goron.

The sooner you understand this simple fact, the sooner we will finish this ridiculous thread.

Link doesn't have his gear on and isn't considered this superstrong character that's why he is so easily tossed aside. Link didn't have his boots or use his sword to damage Yeto but the character isn't that strong especially when we look at the struggle it has on him just to use and combat with the ball and chain out.

It seems you still do not understand physics. Yeto threw Link because Link was light. Yeto would have thrown anyone that weighed similar to Link, regardless of their strength. As I said, he would have thrown Kratos, too, because Kratos is also relatively light.

Stop saying Link is weak. We have repeatedly proven that he is not. Look at how easily he weilds the Ball and Chain.

Bo was able to best them in sumo wrestling because of the boots just like Link so it stands to reason that Bo could stop and throw them in ball form just like Link. If Link had done this without the item I'd say wow he's strong but since he cannot do so without it just like Bo it has everything to do with the gear not Link.

"It stands to reason." No. No, it does not. You cannot assume that because Bo wrestled a Goron, he is suddenly able to replicate all of Link's feats involving Gorons. Also, I have repeatedly proven that Link would have stopped the Goron in any case. And you're still ignoring point 2: Link picked up a Goron and threw it. That part still had nothing to do with the boots.

If I had iron boots on I couldn't effectively outwrestle a man with over 20 pounds my advantage in the real world so no it's not real world physics here.

Probably because you're aren't very strong.

Game play mechanics and he needs the boots which disqualifies it from his abilities or his strength on his own.

I once again direct you to point #2: Link picked up and threw the Goron, which had nothing to do with the boots.

The fact Bo needed the boots and nowhere does it seem he is abnormally strong. He runs at the mere sight of Link as the wolf so he doesn't even seem that brave but he was brave enough to defeat a goron in a wrestling match because of the boots which he points out.

Afraid of wolf =/= weak. That is an illogical conclusion. Zeus is obviously weak by that logic. Further, Bo won a wrestling match. This still doesn't mean that he could pull off all of Link's feats.

I'm saying the same character was overwhelmed just as Link can be killed by being overwhelmed and being impaled.

To which I'm saying that a handful of humans couldn't get done. Link wiped out a town, if you remember.

I don't care neither side has the ability to do so. Kain can't manipulate time with Moebius and start messing with the timeline. These tactics aren't allowed and this is the tp version.

You're taking away everything that makes these settings what they are, and stripping it down to mere preference and popularity. No fight can ever be fair.

Zeus was afraid of kittens he was afraid of Kratos because he just killed a god. The fear from the box helped but it didn't make him fear everyone just Kratos because of the scope of what he just achieved.

All the Fear in the world, centered on Zeus. Of course he was afraid.

It proves he's strong but nowhere near superhuman like because the opponent who wields it does so with one arm while Link needs his whole entire body to do so and it kills his mobility.

Because it's heavy, presumably. Heavy enough to shatter armor and boulders. Regardless, he didn't have any trouble when he first picked it up.

No, it doesn't. The game gives him the gear to do what he needs to through normal strength just like Bo.

Stop ignoring evidence. Or don't, it's not like I care at this point. It's clear to me that neither of us will back down, regardless of who's actually right.

I still believe the evidence points to Link's superhuman strength.

In this thread the soulreaver can kill him or anyone else's powerful attacks. There are no plot devices here and Ganondorf was already killed without the master sword in the friggin game. He came back after the mages destroyed him.

Once again, you're ignoring a rather crucial fact. He was stabbed before the Triforce of Power came into effect, and so was still vaguely Gerudo at that point.

And like I said before, since you're taking away everything that makes Ganondorf what he is, it comes down to simple preference.

Whether there is a cliff around or not the game makes it clear you cannot throw or stop a goron without the boots. he wasn't going to stop him whether that cliff was there or not.

The game makes it clear that the cliff was the only thing that kept Link from stopping the Goron. The Iron Boots were needed so that Link wouldn't be pushed off the cliff. If you'd actually watch the video, you'd see this.

But what the hell, we're getting nowhere. Nobody is going to back down, since we're all stubborn mules. This thread is entirely pointless and, again, comes down to nothing but personal preference, since we're stripping the characters down to nothing. Both sides are determined to win, but it's obvious nothing will ever be decided.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This. Quanchi would have Newton rolling in his grave. 😬

No character of human size, no matter how strong they are, can stop something more than 600 times their own weight (to low ball) without some kind of anchor, period, unless they have a power that either anchors them or makes them a reality warper.

This seems to be lost on an opposition dead set on ignoring everything they can about the franchise up against their own favourite. According to Quanchi a little bit of skill lets you lift and throw many tons of weight. haermm ..Yeah, no.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I disagree, I am not like them. For they are bending feats which do not exist, they use illogical fallacies and nonsense. Link and Ganon are not as powerful as they belive, but if you disagree with me about the Elder God then please argue it. What can they do to stop him? he is enormous afterall....

But as i said, them being "ignored" e.g. not used in an FMV does not mean Kain would not use them. The choice by the developers not to have Kain using a certain power does not actually change the fact that power is there.

You dodged my question and played a fallacy on titles, being a God is irrelevant. You did not answer how you feel towards Cronos vs a few thousand greek soldiers.

We dont actually know what he was recovering from, he was not dealt a wound in the Sarafan lord fight, the sword did not scratch him. And Blood omen 2 Kain is irrelevant in this thread, by the canon of Defiance Kain and your own rules.

Again, thats not evidence that he would not use them. Your using a couple of specific examples of fights where Kain simply chose not to use a certain power to argue Kain would not use them in this fight, this is called a hasty generalisation fallacy.

You should have put that in the OP I guess, "melee only", if its just a melee then LoK probably win with near to equel ease than with all their powers.

In terms of this debate yes it's ignored and the makers also ignored those abilities for the most part.

Cronos wins there but this isn't just about the elder god vs. shadow beatsts either. It's the elder god vs. multiple armies and boss characters along with Link and Ganondorf.

We see Sarafan Lord strike him with his sword and him fall back down. We know he was almost killed by the sarafan lord's battle. To suggest otherwise is living in a delusional world.

It's how he fights in character unlike you wanting to use abilities from previous games. he only gets the abilities from this game. It's stated right in the op this is just defiance so quit trying to use his abilities from other games I say it doesn't fly so it doesn't.

How so?

Originally posted by The Scenario
No. How many times must I say this? There are two things going on here:
1. Link needs the Iron Boots to weigh enough that he won't be pushed back by the Goron.
2. Link does not need the Iron Boots to lift the Goron off the ground and toss it.

You're still stuck on 1, while I have moved to the more impressive 2, where Link does not need the weight that the boots provide in order to throw a Goron. Forget the Iron Boots. They are not important after the Goron stops moving.

Once again:
[b]1. He needed gear to STOP the Goron.

2. He did not need gear to THROW the Goron.

The sooner you understand this simple fact, the sooner we will finish this ridiculous thread.

It seems you still do not understand physics. Yeto threw Link because Link was light. Yeto would have thrown anyone that weighed similar to Link, regardless of their strength. As I said, he would have thrown Kratos, too, because Kratos is also relatively light.

Stop saying Link is weak. We have repeatedly proven that he is not. Look at how easily he weilds the Ball and Chain.

"It stands to reason." No. No, it does not. You cannot assume that because Bo wrestled a Goron, he is suddenly able to replicate all of Link's feats involving Gorons. Also, I have repeatedly proven that Link would have stopped the Goron in any case. And you're still ignoring point 2: Link picked up a Goron and threw it. That part still had nothing to do with the boots.

Probably because you're aren't very strong.

I once again direct you to point #2: Link picked up and threw the Goron, which had nothing to do with the boots.

Afraid of wolf =/= weak. That is an illogical conclusion. Zeus is obviously weak by that logic. Further, Bo won a wrestling match. This still doesn't mean that he could pull off all of Link's feats.

To which I'm saying that a handful of humans couldn't get done. Link wiped out a town, if you remember.

You're taking away everything that makes these settings what they are, and stripping it down to mere preference and popularity. No fight can ever be fair.

All the Fear in the world, centered on Zeus. Of course he was afraid.

Because it's heavy, presumably. Heavy enough to shatter armor and boulders. Regardless, he didn't have any trouble when he first picked it up.

Stop ignoring evidence. Or don't, it's not like I care at this point. It's clear to me that neither of us will back down, regardless of who's actually right.

I still believe the evidence points to Link's superhuman strength.

Once again, you're ignoring a rather crucial fact. He was stabbed before the Triforce of Power came into effect, and so was still vaguely Gerudo at that point.

And like I said before, since you're taking away everything that makes Ganondorf what he is, it comes down to simple preference.

The game makes it clear that the cliff was the only thing that kept Link from stopping the Goron. The Iron Boots were needed so that Link wouldn't be pushed off the cliff. If you'd actually watch the video, you'd see this.

But what the hell, we're getting nowhere. Nobody is going to back down, since we're all stubborn mules. This thread is entirely pointless and, again, comes down to nothing but personal preference, since we're stripping the characters down to nothing. Both sides are determined to win, but it's obvious nothing will ever be decided. [/B]

Bo also defeated a goron with iron boots so tossing a goron once stopping his momentum due to the iron boots doesn't make me in awe of his strength in the game you need the gear to do so and it doesn't necessarily make you super strong by any means.

Kratos resisted Cronos' fingers crushing him because he is strong and he weighs a lot less but resisted anyways. Link cannot resist because he's nowhere near as strong as Kratos nor do his creators make him that way.

No, Link cannot stop the goron unless he has the boots on to do so. It's impossible further up the hill and gorons just inflict damage you don't stop him in his tracks without a cliff nearby. Bo defeated one and we saw Link wrestle one and for it to take time to do so further proving it's not really super strength but made possible only through the iron boots.

Afraid of the wolf equals not that brave but beating a goron in a match doesn't also suggest bravery. He was brave enough to challenge the goron but took off at the mere sight of a wolf.

Zeus doesn't fear everyone around him he fears Kratos because he just saw him kill Ares. That gives him reason to fear Kratos because he's a badass and can kill him whereas most characters in the game cannot.

When did he wipe out an entire town? Are you saying the twenty foes he faced with his bow and arrow from a distance away while getting the drop on most of them and comparing this to an army of vampire hunters engaging Link, himself?

Zant himself crushed Link on his own and had him at his mercy.

Yes, fights can be fair if you take away the you need this weapon to kill Dorf or you can't kill Kain unless you take away his soulreaver type of nonsense.

Zeus was afraid of Kratos because he had reason to be. Zeus didn't fear life but instead Kratos because he was very powerful and a threat to him.

Yes, it's heavy but lighter and easier to handle by the warrior who first wielded it than Link further proving he's not this elite superstrong character at all.

So? The triforce of power came into effect and he was killed right after by the mages so even with it he can be killed without the master sword in the actual game. The facts support me like always.

Yes, we won't see eye to eye on things here but I am trying to be as fair as possible. I am somewhat in the middle with a narrow Kain victory whereas both sides claim utter stompage here.

No Quanchi, no. He IS strong enough to perform the feat. He isn't HEAVY enough to perform the feat.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No Quanchi, no. He IS strong enough to perform the feat. He isn't HEAVY enough to perform the feat.

Sumo wrastling is extremely different from stopping and throwing a Goron rolling down a hill.

Kraots and cronos. Fictional universes don't adhere to laws of physics. Wow.

In short: Kratos would not be able to stop a Goron without being moved without the iron boots, either.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So without the iron boots he can't stop the momentum on his own meaning he isn't strong enough to perform the feat.

He is strong enough. See when he almost does it without them. See when he hits the Goron without breaking his arms.

Bo also defeated a goron with iron boots so tossing a goron once stopping his momentum due to the iron boots doesn't make me in awe of his strength in the game you need the gear to do so and it doesn't necessarily make you super strong by any means.

You really don't understand what I'm saying, do you? Forget the Iron Boots, Link tossed a Goron. Bo did not toss a Goron and whichever Goron he wrestled is gauranteed to be much smaller than Dangoro. We don't even know if he won that easily. He could have gotten lucky even with the boots.

Link did not need to boots to throw Dangoro, he only needed them to stop the charge. If you had tried something like that, it would have shattered your arms.

We don't know if Bo can do this, so stop assuming he can, and stop assuming that if he could, this somehow makes Link weak. Again, Bo could be an abnormally strong coward. He does indeed have freaking tusks on his face.

Kratos resisted Cronos' fingers crushing him because he is strong and he weighs a lot less but resisted anyways. Link cannot resist because he's nowhere near as strong as Kratos nor do his creators make him that way.

That is a completely different situation. Whether Cronos crushes Kratos or not has nothing to do with Kratos' weight. Cronos is applying downward force, and Kratos is applying upward force, bracing himself on the ground, etc. With Dangoro, all the force is going sideways, and that changes the equation completely. Link doesn't really have much ground to brace himself on, so he needs extra weight to generate enough friction to stop. I guarantee that Kratos would have gone flying if Cronos simply kicked him.

No, Link cannot stop the goron unless he has the boots on to do so. It's impossible further up the hill and gorons just inflict damage you don't stop him in his tracks without a cliff nearby. Bo defeated one and we saw Link wrestle one and for it to take time to do so further proving it's not really super strength but made possible only through the iron boots.

Evidence, stop ignoring it. It is impossible to go further up the hill there, since Link stops as soon as the Goron starts talking. The cliff is the only thing that allows the Goron to knock Link down, since there's not enough room to stop.

Again, Bo wrestling a small Goron pales in comparison to Link tossing a huge armored Goron over 20 feet.

Afraid of the wolf equals not that brave but beating a goron in a match doesn't also suggest bravery. He was brave enough to challenge the goron but took off at the mere sight of a wolf.

Goron wrestling is strictly non-lethal. He doesn't have to be brave to try a sport. Since he thought Link was a Wolfos or something, that was a decidedly life-threatening situation.

Zeus doesn't fear everyone around him he fears Kratos because he just saw him kill Ares. That gives him reason to fear Kratos because he's a badass and can kill him whereas most characters in the game cannot.

I don't even care about this.

When did he wipe out an entire town? Are you saying the twenty foes he faced with his bow and arrow from a distance away while getting the drop on most of them and comparing this to an army of vampire hunters engaging Link, himself?

Where did the army of vampires hunters come from? You said Link would be overwhelmed by a "handful" of normal humans and I disagreed. Regardless, yeah, I think that Link would still win since he got the drop on the hunters and has sniping equipment and bomb arrows.

Zant himself crushed Link on his own and had him at his mercy.

And Zant could likely defeat Kain based on feats. What's your point?

Yes, fights can be fair if you take away the you need this weapon to kill Dorf or you can't kill Kain unless you take away his soulreaver type of nonsense.

Not really. Ganondorf's invulnerability is central to his character. Taking that away makes him cease to be Ganondorf. Anyway, I still don't see Kain winning that easily.

Zeus was afraid of Kratos because he had reason to be. Zeus didn't fear life but instead Kratos because he was very powerful and a threat to him.

k'

Yes, it's heavy but lighter and easier to handle by the warrior who first wielded it than Link further proving he's not this elite superstrong character at all.

That sentance just broke physics. It was not lighter for the Lizalfos, nor was it heavier for Link. It can't change its mass. Link still weilds the thing with ridiculous ease.

So? The triforce of power came into effect and he was killed right after by the mages so even with it he can be killed without the master sword in the actual game. The facts support me like always.

Wait. What? He was never killed. What are you talking about? The only thing I can think of is him being banished to the Twilight Realm, but that did not even come close to killing him. In fact, feeding on the Twili's hatred made him stronger.

Yes, we won't see eye to eye on things here but I am trying to be as fair as possible. I am somewhat in the middle with a narrow Kain victory whereas both sides claim utter stompage here.

I don't claim stompage at all. All I'm trying to do is the Link superstrength issue, which will give him and edge.

Originally posted by quanchi112

Size doesn't determine power. Kain defeated the elder god and he's not big at all.

In terms of this debate yes it's ignored and the makers also ignored those abilities for the most part.

Cronos wins there but this isn't just about the elder god vs. shadow beatsts either. It's the elder god vs. multiple armies and boss characters along with Link and Ganondorf.

We see Sarafan Lord strike him with his sword and him fall back down. We know he was almost killed by the sarafan lord's battle. To suggest otherwise is living in a delusional world.

It's how he fights in character unlike you wanting to use abilities from previous games. he only gets the abilities from this game. It's stated right in the op this is just defiance so quit trying to use his abilities from other games I say it doesn't fly so it doesn't.

How so?

Thats because Kains soul reaver seems to have the power to harm the Elder God as an entity, enough so for it to be defeated. Size "can" determine power if your a mouse in comparison to a titan, assuming ofc only physical force and no powers are involved.

oh I see, how can you say that when Cronos has never beaten an army? your being a hypocrite....this is pretty much the same thing for the Elder God, hes enormous and their a lot of tiny entities. If your making it so that they mostly only use melee abilities then its an even more quicker stomp.Link and Ganondorf have nothing on the Elder, even Screampastes versions.

And deal no damage to Kain, nothing says he nearly died, which is impossible in his own unvierse anyway. Kain was not scratched, you can see the sword and its energy strike through him but Kains healing factor or outright resistance somehow stopped it from dealing damage.

Not proven, sorry but your making a failure of logic again. You said Defiance characters, you never said anything about ignoreing powers and abilities from other games like they never happened.

Because physically in melee the Elder God would win by itself, Kain>Ganon, Raziel>Link etc etc, the biggest melee characters in TP would be Gorons and they would be crushed by the largest vampires and demons like Turel.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats because Kains soul reaver seems to have the power to harm the Elder God as an entity, enough so for it to be defeated. Size "can" determine power if your a mouse in comparison to a titan, assuming ofc only physical force and no powers are involved.

Same exact thing with the Master Sword and Ganondorf. It can damage him, along with the Silver Arrows. Are you just assuming that the Elder God can't be harmed by anything else or is there actual evidence to this claim? Until you get some evidence, that doesn't fly.

oh I see, how can you say that when Cronos has never beaten an army? your being a hypocrite....this is pretty much the same thing for the Elder God, hes enormous and their a lot of tiny entities. If your making it so that they mostly only use melee abilities then its an even more quicker stomp.Link and Ganondorf have nothing on the Elder, even Screampastes versions.

If Kain could do it, I don't see Link or Ganondorf having a ton of problems. But still, do you have any strength feats for the Elder God or are you still assuming that he's strong? Give a feat that proves he can do what you're claiming he can do, or you've got nothing. Cronos has feats to prove he's strong, EG currently does not.

And deal no damage to Kain, nothing says he nearly died, which is impossible in his own unvierse anyway. Kain was not scratched, you can see the sword and its energy strike through him but Kains healing factor or outright resistance somehow stopped it from dealing damage.

And yet you try to claim graphical limitation when Ganondorf got the same feat. I doubt there was a need to show a wound when Kain was so obviously defeated.

Not proven, sorry but your making a failure of logic again. You said Defiance characters, you never said anything about ignoreing powers and abilities from other games like they never happened.

He was doing the same for Ganondorf and Link this entire thread, if you didn't notice. Were not allowed to use OoT, or any other Zelda game for that matter. If it was allowed, Ganondorf would just set everyone on fire from half a mile away and call it a day.

Because physically in melee the Elder God would win by itself, Kain>Ganon, Raziel>Link etc etc, the biggest melee characters in TP would be Gorons and they would be crushed by the largest vampires and demons like Turel.

Evidence suggests otherwise.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Sumo wrastling is extremely different from stopping and throwing a Goron rolling down a hill.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If this were true, Kratos wouldn't be able to stand on the ground, for he qwould float away, because the laws of physics don't matter. His strength feats mean nothing, because nothing is heavy, because the laws of physics don't matter. Infact, he cannot excist, because his molecules cannot hold together, because the laws of physics don't matter... OHWAIT: More likely is that his devs just don't know or don't care how physics work, and having to walk back 100 miles everytime you're hit isn't fun. IE, PIS.

In short: Kratos would not be able to stop a Goron without being moved without the iron boots, either.

Originally posted by The Scenario
He is strong enough. See when he almost does it without them. See when he hits the Goron without breaking his arms.

You really don't understand what I'm saying, do you? Forget the Iron Boots, Link tossed a Goron. Bo did not toss a Goron and whichever Goron he wrestled is gauranteed to be much smaller than Dangoro. We don't even know if he won that easily. He could have gotten lucky even with the boots.

Link did not need to boots to throw Dangoro, he only needed them to stop the charge. If you had tried something like that, it would have shattered your arms.

We don't know if Bo can do this, so stop assuming he can, and stop assuming that if he could, this somehow makes Link weak. Again, Bo could be an abnormally strong coward. He does indeed have freaking tusks on his face.

That is a completely different situation. Whether Cronos crushes Kratos or not has nothing to do with Kratos' weight. Cronos is applying downward force, and Kratos is applying upward force, bracing himself on the ground, etc. With Dangoro, all the force is going sideways, and that changes the equation completely. Link doesn't really have much ground to brace himself on, so he needs extra weight to generate enough friction to stop. I guarantee that Kratos would have gone flying if Cronos simply kicked him.

Evidence, stop ignoring it. It is impossible to go further up the hill there, since Link stops as soon as the Goron starts talking. The cliff is the only thing that allows the Goron to knock Link down, since there's not enough room to stop.

Again, Bo wrestling a small Goron pales in comparison to Link tossing a huge armored Goron over 20 feet.

Goron wrestling is strictly non-lethal. He doesn't have to be brave to try a sport. Since he thought Link was a Wolfos or something, that was a decidedly life-threatening situation.

I don't even care about this.

Where did the army of vampires hunters come from? You said Link would be overwhelmed by a "handful" of normal humans and I disagreed. Regardless, yeah, I think that Link would still win since he got the drop on the hunters and has sniping equipment and bomb arrows.

And Zant could likely defeat Kain based on feats. What's your point?

Not really. Ganondorf's invulnerability is central to his character. Taking that away makes him cease to be Ganondorf. Anyway, I still don't see Kain winning that easily.

k'

That sentance just broke physics. It was not lighter for the Lizalfos, nor was it heavier for Link. It can't change its mass. Link still weilds the thing with ridiculous ease.

Wait. What? He was never killed. What are you talking about? The only thing I can think of is him being banished to the Twilight Realm, but that did not even come close to killing him. In fact, feeding on the Twili's hatred made him stronger.

I don't claim stompage at all. All I'm trying to do is the Link superstrength issue, which will give him and edge.

Bo taught him the skills needed to do so and Link didn't toss any goron easily out of the ring while wrestling one.

Bo told him what he needed to know and gave him what he needed. The game makes it clear you need the gear and the sumo training to be able to best them.

No one else in the game shattered their arms and Bo the only other person who bested a goron did so with the boots and Link did so with the boots. It all adds up while you want to pretend this was impossible outside Link which it wasn't because Bo originally did so.

it doesn't matter as he couldn't resist it based on the law of physics with regards to his size. Kratos resisted because he's strong whereas Link isn't he needed the boots whereas Kratos relied on his own strength.

Go up the hill and you'll toss more gorons and you can't toss them without the boots. Link can't toss any in a wrestling match so the only reason he was able to do so was because they rolled at him in a ball.

I said if he was overrun the same attack would kill him. I am not getting into a could link fight off the forces that killed him kind of minidebate.

So there was no risk of injury against a goron? Really? The point is a much smaller creature sent him off into the darkness due to fear whereas the gorons didn't scare him at all.

These characters aren't going to sit in their battle stations and let Link pick them off. It's not as easy for link to destroy people with his arrows when people are running at him as opposed to standing still not even aware of him.

No, he couldn't. Zant has done nothing to suggest he could defeat Kain whatsoever.

Ganondorf wasn't invulnerable as we saw a sword pierce him, mages kill him, the wolf bites hurt him, arrows hurt him, and Link's sword kill him as well.

It was easier for the other character to handle than Link who could barely move while doing so.

He came back later through the hatred of the twilight zant. He said it brought him back. He was killed.

Link doesn't have superstrength by any means and any battle with any knight or anything had to do with his skills not a strength advantage.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats because Kains soul reaver seems to have the power to harm the Elder God as an entity, enough so for it to be defeated. Size "can" determine power if your a mouse in comparison to a titan, assuming ofc only physical force and no powers are involved.

oh I see, how can you say that when Cronos has never beaten an army? your being a hypocrite....this is pretty much the same thing for the Elder God, hes enormous and their a lot of tiny entities. If your making it so that they mostly only use melee abilities then its an even more quicker stomp.Link and Ganondorf have nothing on the Elder, even Screampastes versions.

And deal no damage to Kain, nothing says he nearly died, which is impossible in his own unvierse anyway. Kain was not scratched, you can see the sword and its energy strike through him but Kains healing factor or outright resistance somehow stopped it from dealing damage.

Not proven, sorry but your making a failure of logic again. You said Defiance characters, you never said anything about ignoreing powers and abilities from other games like they never happened.

Because physically in melee the Elder God would win by itself, Kain>Ganon, Raziel>Link etc etc, the biggest melee characters in TP would be Gorons and they would be crushed by the largest vampires and demons like Turel.

Because even with an entire army at his side he failed to defeat Zues and his army. Both armies don't consist of grunts they consist of powerful bosses and badasses so no one is soloing here.

Why is Kain out for 100 years if he wasn't damaged? Seriously.

They only use the abilities demonstrated from this game and this game alone.

No, the ig wouldn't as a few bosses while a force sent to kill him would take care of the eg. Imagine a lot of shadow beats reforming as well along with bosses attacking the eg.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If what you say is true why can't Link throw a goron out of the ring when he wrestles them since he's so strong? You just said you need to exceed the weight and the momentum coming at you to stop it which Kratos didn't in gow 3. You tripped all over yourself here. To think writers take into consideration physics when creating fictional universes based on magic is hilarious.

I wasn't aware something says he can't.

You need to be heavier, yeah, basic physics. It really doesn't matter how strong you are, if the object you are trying to stop is heavier than you are, you will move before it stops.

Find a scene of this Kratos feat. It's probably different than this.

And no, you cannot say all writers ignore physics just because Kratos' did. It is clear the TP developers WERE thinking about basic physics.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If what you say is true why can't Link throw a goron out of the ring when he wrestles them since he's so strong? You just said you need to exceed the weight and the momentum coming at you to stop it which Kratos didn't in gow 3. You tripped all over yourself here. To think writers take into consideration physics when creating fictional universes based on magic is hilarious.

Kratos had force coming from above. Link had force coming from the side. Compleely different, so he did not trip up. Find a scene where Kratos stops soomething coming at him from the side, and you will likely see him pushed backward.

In fact, just look at the scene where Pandora dies. The suction pulls Kratos toward it, despite his strength.

No one breaks their arms doing so. We didn't see anyone else attempt it so you can't say they couldn't do so.

Physics dictates that your arms would shatter. It's a huge rock rolling down a hill at you. You put up your arms, and that rock will break them.

Bo taught him the skills needed to do so and Link didn't toss any goron easily out of the ring while wrestling one.

It was the Goron Chief, who is also a skilled wrestler. And yes, Link did toss him a bit.

Bo told him what he needed to know and gave him what he needed. The game makes it clear you need the gear and the sumo training to be able to best them.

Yes, because otherwise Link is too light and tossable. This means nothing to Link's strength.

No one else in the game shattered their arms and Bo the only other person who bested a goron did so with the boots and Link did so with the boots. It all adds up while you want to pretend this was impossible outside Link which it wasn't because Bo originally did so.

You're still not listening.

1. Bo wrestled a Goron and won.
2. Bo did not stop a rolling Goron.
3. Bo did not pick up a throw a Goron.

1. Link wrestled a Goron Chief, and a very strong and skilled one.
2. Link stopped several rolling Gorons, one of which was massive and armored.
3. Link picked up and threw several Gorons, one of which was massive and armored.

Link has done things that Bo has not. Stop trying to pass this off as unimpressive when Link is clearly the only one to do something like this. Bo did not originally do this. He wrestled and won, that's it. He did nothing impressive ever again, especially not Link's strength feats.

it doesn't matter as he couldn't resist it based on the law of physics with regards to his size. Kratos resisted because he's strong whereas Link isn't he needed the boots whereas Kratos relied on his own strength.

You are not paying attention. Kratos did not need weight because he was dealing with force from above. If I drop a piano on you, it doesn't matter how heavy you are. Link needed weight because the force was from the side. There is a massive difference. If I threw the piano at you sideways, then it would matter how heavy you are.

Go up the hill and you'll toss more gorons and you can't toss them without the boots. Link can't toss any in a wrestling match so the only reason he was able to do so was because they rolled at him in a ball.

There's a cliff. It doesn't work.

I said if he was overrun the same attack would kill him. I am not getting into a could link fight off the forces that killed him kind of minidebate.

k'

So there was no risk of injury against a goron? Really? The point is a much smaller creature sent him off into the darkness due to fear whereas the gorons didn't scare him at all.

It's a sport. You're not afraid of baseball or football, are you? It's safe enough. On the other hand, there's a big wolf with claws and teeth and can kill you with a pounce, which is decidedly not safe. Bo is physically powerful coward.

These characters aren't going to sit in their battle stations and let Link pick them off. It's not as easy for link to destroy people with his arrows when people are running at him as opposed to standing still not even aware of him.

Link can snipe from out of their range via Hawkeye. He very well can pick them off before they realize he's there.

No, he couldn't. Zant has done nothing to suggest he could defeat Kain whatsoever.

He beat Link. But yeah, Zant is a reality warper, and faster than Kain with better magic; He very well could beat Kain.

Ganondorf wasn't invulnerable as we saw a sword pierce him, mages kill him, the wolf bites hurt him, arrows hurt him, and Link's sword kill him as well.

Do you not understand how this works?

No ToP = stabbed.
ToP= lolno i kill u

Divine Wolf bites empowered by ToC and Master Sword, and arrows never hurt him.

It was easier for the other character to handle than Link who could barely move while doing so.

Other character was a giant lizard who also had crap mobility. Everyone who has ever weilded that weapon had crap mobility and did so with difficulty.

He came back later through the hatred of the twilight zant. He said it brought him back. He was killed.

No. Watch it again.

YouTube video

"Your hatred bled across the void and awakened me. I drew deep of it and grew strong again."

Good luck killing him when he can pull stuff like that.

Link doesn't have superstrength by any means and any battle with any knight or anything had to do with his skills not a strength advantage.

And all that progress is lost because you won't listen to reason.

So a 30 ton lorry would knock Superman back even if he was prepared for impact?

As long as the force coming at you is below what you can take you can stop it as your whole body acts to resist/anchor against the incoming force.

Eg: -Guy twice your weight runs at you, can be stopped dead in their tracks if youre strong enough to stop the force.
-Supes ^, Maybe weighs 230lbs(?) and we all know how strong he is.
-Hulk, Weighs just over half a ton and is on the huge scale too/
-Hancock vs the train, a 190lbs guy vs a 1000+ tons in moving force.
-WolfLink&Midna vs Ganon, their weight together is about 160lbs vs a charging 10ton Ganon.
Etc. In all cases the lighter, strong target can stop the force going to them.

Weight isn't the only thing to take into account here. And if TPLinks whole body is on a GG scale he could replicate the feat without the Iron boots.
Even asked some people that are good in the area and they agree.

I applaud all of you for having the endurance to argue this again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well with this thread involved these other characters' weapons and attacks can hurt him so they can kill him.

Because even with an entire army at his side he failed to defeat Zues and his army. Both armies don't consist of grunts they consist of powerful bosses and badasses so no one is soloing here.

Why is Kain out for 100 years if he wasn't damaged? Seriously.

They only use the abilities demonstrated from this game and this game alone.

No, the ig wouldn't as a few bosses while a force sent to kill him would take care of the eg. Imagine a lot of shadow beats reforming as well along with bosses attacking the eg.

Ok, give me a move list from TP that can lead to EG actually being killed?

Zeus and the Titans were hardly an army, they were like 10-20 elite entities of power equel or beyond to the Titans each. Yet youve said a Titan could beat 2000 greek soldiers....yet they have never beaten an army, see how your being a hypocrite and saying something pretty silly at the same time? you dont have to have beaten an army to be able to beat one is my point.

He must have been spiritually harmed or that one of the many things the game has not revealed yet. We dont actually see Kain getting physically damaged however.

Fair enough, your rules. Kain still has a good deal of powers from blood TKing which is similiar to the bloodshower spell, he has time powers, lightning etc.

The Elder Gods flesh can take the weight of the ground above it as well as the ground it smashes through as it burrows into the Earth across the planet. I doubt the average TP creature has the feats required to even damage the EG, furthermore, what good is all of these things attacking the tiny portion of the EG they could cover when it can regenerate and multiply its limbs almost instantly? no use at all....

Originally posted by The Scenario
Same exact thing with the Master Sword and Ganondorf. It can damage him, along with the Silver Arrows. Are you just assuming that the Elder God can't be harmed by anything else or is there actual evidence to this claim? Until you get some evidence, that doesn't fly.

If Kain could do it, I don't see Link or Ganondorf having a ton of problems. But still, do you have any strength feats for the Elder God or are you still assuming that he's strong? Give a feat that proves he can do what you're claiming he can do, or you've got nothing. Cronos has feats to prove he's strong, EG currently does not.

And yet you try to claim graphical limitation when Ganondorf got the same feat. I doubt there was a need to show a wound when Kain was so obviously defeated.

He was doing the same for Ganondorf and Link this entire thread, if you didn't notice. Were not allowed to use OoT, or any other Zelda game for that matter. If it was allowed, Ganondorf would just set everyone on fire from half a mile away and call it a day.

Evidence suggests otherwise.

But they cannot defeat him. The Elder God is immaterial, the material does not hit him and Raziels spiritual reaver cannot harm him either. None of those weapons will be of any use, a huge squid having a tiny shaft of silver? or a minor sword stuck in its tentacle? one movement and it would crush most of them or bury them under the Earth. Chances are none of them will hit it.

Kain is beyond Link and Ganon combined in both the weapon and power department and he had the plot device that damaged the EG on several levels. Fortunaltey for the characters here, Quanchi has allowed them to harm EG as if it was a physical entity. The EG is burrowed beneath the world both in the deep places where rock is insanely dense and a high precentage metal and its smashed through rock to attack Raziel although I am basing its overall strength on its size.

No he has not, we actuallly see the sword go through Kain without harming him, its not the same as a sound that youve decided is Links sword striking Ganon. And I am talking about an FMV, not gameplay graphics.

No it really doesnt.... 😬

Originally posted by Burning thought

But they cannot defeat him. The Elder God is immaterial, the material does not hit him and Raziels spiritual reaver cannot harm him either. None of those weapons will be of any use, a huge squid having a tiny shaft of silver? or a minor sword stuck in its tentacle? one movement and it would crush most of them or bury them under the Earth. Chances are none of them will hit it.

But can you prove this? You've just said that they won't, is there anything to actually back that up? Has someone tried to hit the Elder God and failed?

[quote]
Kain is beyond Link and Ganon combined in both the weapon and power department and he had the plot device that damaged the EG on several levels. Fortunaltey for the characters here, Quanchi has allowed them to harm EG as if it was a physical entity. The EG is burrowed beneath the world both in the deep places where rock is insanely dense and a high precentage metal and its smashed through rock to attack Raziel although I am basing its overall strength on its size.

Again, lack of anything resembling evidence is hurting your argument. Ganondorf and Link are comparable to Kain separately, let alone together, though we are still working out just how much. As for the Elder God, does he even have feats?

No he has not, we actuallly see the sword go through Kain without harming him, its not the same as a sound that youve decided is Links sword striking Ganon. And I am talking about an FMV, not gameplay graphics.

I saw the sword go through and blood flew everywhere. Then Kain wakes up 200 years later and a woman tells him that the Cabal has been nursing him back to health for all that time and that he's too weak to take on any vampire. Then the tutorial starts and Kain is being treated like child.

Whereas Ganon has been struck across the chest with the Master Sword (in Wind Waker) and doesn't have a scar to show for it. And then OoT spoilers and he's no worse for the wear. Neither of them show damage when struck.

No it really doesnt.... 😬

There we differ.

So a 30 ton lorry would knock Superman back even if he was prepared for impact?

Unlike Link, Kain, or Kratos, Superman can in fact brace himself on thin air. His ability to fly helps him not move since he can use that as well.

Even without that you believe a 7x10^21 tonner cant stp a 30 ton lorry driving at him (without flying or anything, only normal bracing for impact) would knock him back only because its heavier then him?

All those examples can do it without that much effort.