LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Started by ScreamPaste85 pages

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are correct but to suggest this is possible at all and that these guys take physics into consideration is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read online.

Since when? Kratos gets pierced all the time and when does a sword fail to piece him or hurt him? Seriously, you just make things up. To even utter this is possible in some manner and could happen should reset your brain.

So being outweighed by this much means according to the laws of physics this is possible, right? Please say yes.


Actually, to suggest physics doesn't matter is one of them ost ignorant things ever. 🙂

Cosmic Comet already proved Kratos' durability, so that's done for me, but yeah, being heavy means that when yopu're in motion, you have a lot of energy, which you will conduct to other masses you contact, this causes them to move.

Being crushed between two masses of equal energy, or one mass of great energy, and another of such size that it cannot be moved by the energy of the other mass (IE, a planet) will not make you move, because you are trapped between a rock and a hardplace, so to speak. 😐 all of the energy moving through you ends up dispersing against the mass on the other side.

But uh yeah. If you're not durable, youwill be crushed if the forces exceed what you can withstand. This is not the case.

SO, you seem to think you understand physics, and claim Kratos not being crushed defies physics, then tell me, what law of physics does this particular feat break? Specify what law is being defied, please. 🙂

Originally posted by SovNarKom
Raziel tried to hit EG with the Spirit Reaver, and he failed.

Now we're getting somewhere. Granted, I don't know where, but thank you nonetheless. Any examples from a physical weapon?

Are you saying based on the laws of physics someone who outweighs you by thousands and thousands of pounds can stop you from crushing him? LOL.

Scream covered this. Suffice to say, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't mind that you haven't learned much in the way of physics, but don't act like you know them.


Yes, without the weight Link can't hang with them so this is only made possible through gear so it's not something he can do on his own so it isn't valid of him overpowering Kain whatsoever.

Hang with them? Again, the boots just make Link heavy, they did not assist in throwing Gorons.

No, because in the game you cannot stop any of them without the boots so he really can't resist any of them.

Because he's too light. What is so hard to understand about that? If it was upwards force, he wouldn't need them. Like here:

YouTube video

At 0:58, Link opens that massive door that has been closed for hundreds of years with no trouble, for instance. Pretty much all the boss doors are like this, too.


Yes, he taught him the art of the sumo and the only other technique he used to stop the gorons was the same one used against the goats which Bo knew so everything Link knew Bo knew first.

There is still nothing to suggest that Bo could stop a rolling Goron. You're simply assuming he can because he has the Iron Boots, but that's circular logic.


So despite Bo knowing the same tactic to stop a goat and besting a sumo with the iron boots we assume he can't stop one rolling down in ball form? What?????????

Your assuming he can simply because he knows the technique. We know that Bo can sumo a Goron, anything else is assuming, and you're still ignoring the fact that Dangoro is bigger than any other Goron in Twilight Princess.

A coin and something made of flesh and bone are two different things. Please don't try to twist my logic which applies to this example here with common sense.

To be honest, I doubt you know what you're talking about here. Kratos has enough durability to resist, just as a coin of block of wood has enough durability to resist you.

Link only resists them with the boots.

YouTube video

1:20

They wouldn't be standing there like in the game. The game set it up for you to take them all out without them knowing. On a battlefield it's much different. How many times in the game could Link take all his enemies out when the game didn't set you up for it?

If you're far enough away, all the time.

Kain obviously wouldn't want to match up against him because of the reality warping and because water is deadly to him. He'd send raziel after Zant more than likely.

HAHAHAHAHA

ZANT DEFEATS KAIN

Raziel can come back to life as many times as he wants as well. If Raziel takes his soul though he isn't coming back.

Looks to be an interesting matchup, then. Probably need to get rid of the Elder God to take out Raziel.

Zant does not have a chance of soloing by any means. The foes he'd face off against are far superior than Link who defeated him and the pathetic army that was by Zelda's side. The elder god as well would probably defeat Zant on his own if they were matched one on one or Raziel could do so.

You assume that something in LoK is better than Link, therefore they can beat Zant. Prove that whatever is better than Link before you make that claim. Further, that ignores Zant's own abilities.

He channeled it only after he was stabbed. He also channeled it again after he was stabbed the second time so he failed. He was never unable to be stabbed and only accessed it after the fact to recover.

What are you talking about? Channelling? The Triforce of Power is a passive increase, and Ganondorf only channels it when he transforms. Regardless of that, the fact that you are still ignoring is that it failed because the Master Sword is designed to make it fail. No one on LoK has something that will make it fail like that, so the point is moot anyway.

That means Link isn't superstrong in this game just as I said.

Oh, and I thought you were just cherry picking and ignoring all the proof that Link is superhuman.

/sarcasm


The Scenario
I don't know where, but thank you nonetheless

In Defiance, after the battle with Janos. Sorry, I can't post the video right now, but here some quotes from this scene:

EG: Do you see? However far you stray, you will always return to me. Surrender, Raziel.
Raziel: Never! "Trying to strikes the EG without success"
EG:Your efforts are wasted, Raziel. That weapon you bear, however endowed, remains only a wraith blade. It cannot touch me.

I think that's enough).

you're welcome🙂

Any examples from a physical weapon?

Can't remember, but anyway, i dont think it work, because like BT says, he's not matirial.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Now we're getting somewhere. Granted, I don't know where, but thank you nonetheless. Any examples from a physical weapon?

I said the same in the last few posts 😬

In truth hes not material, in this thread he is material unfortunaltey so EG can be struck......but its still relevent when scaling the capabilities of the reaver.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No Quanchi, if Cronos is crushing Kratos like I think he is, then Cronos is actually supporting Kratos as well, all Kratos has to do is provide the muscle. The situation is entirely different, force is coming from the top and bottom, as opposed to the side. Kratos really has nowhere he could be moved, so Cronos' weight is irrelevant.

Of course I'd still like to see it. And from my last post all you had to ask about was who LP is?

To resist someone who weighs the size of Kratos against someone who literally supports a mountain on his back is ridiculous. Physics would never support something so ridiculous.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He blocked two swings from the BoO with his bare hands, against Zeus--someone just as strong as him. That's when.

Atropos' claws also didn't cut him.

One of the Leviathan creatures wasn't able to impale him despite hitting him in the torso with its pointed leg.

The only times he's been pierced by an enemy:

1.) when Ares threw a big pillar at him in his giant God form that was travelling several times faster than the speed of sound. Even then he was dense enough to slow down its impact, if it had gone all the way through Kratos would have been bisected as the base of the pillar was wider than his torso. Kratos was also weaker in that game then he is God of War 3.

2.) Zeus plunged the BoO into Kratos after he was severely weakened. (Injured and reduced to based power)

I have no interest in this debate, I'm just letting you know.

Kratos by feats, is just as if not more durable than diamond.

Blocking and letting it bounce off you are two completely separate things. If he stands there and lets Zeus strike him he's going to bleed. Zeus killed him already because he didn't have the strength at the time to defend himself.

1)Yes, he was pierced because he was hit. In part two when fighting the sisters of fate without the giant sword to aid him he dies against Ares because even at full power he can still be pierced.

2)The point is he can still be pierced he can't stand there and laugh of f a sword strike from Zeus. I have no idea what you guys think of when you play these games. Honestly.

Physics would never support something so ridiculous.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, to suggest physics doesn't matter is one of them ost ignorant things ever. 🙂

Cosmic Comet already proved Kratos' durability, so that's done for me, but yeah, being heavy means that when yopu're in motion, you have a lot of energy, which you will conduct to other masses you contact, this causes them to move.

Being crushed between two masses of equal energy, or one mass of great energy, and another of such size that it cannot be moved by the energy of the other mass (IE, a planet) will not make you move, because you are trapped between a rock and a hardplace, so to speak. 😐 all of the energy moving through you ends up dispersing against the mass on the other side.

But uh yeah. If you're not durable, youwill be crushed if the forces exceed what you can withstand. This is not the case.

SO, you seem to think you understand physics, and claim Kratos not being crushed defies physics, then tell me, what law of physics does this particular feat break? Specify what law is being defied, please. 🙂


Ahem...

Sorry missed this....

Originally posted by The Scenario
But can you prove this? You've just said that they won't, is there anything to actually back that up? Has someone tried to hit the Elder God and failed?

Again, lack of anything resembling evidence is hurting your argument. Ganondorf and Link are comparable to Kain separately, let alone together, though we are still working out just how much. As for the Elder God, does he even have feats?

I saw the sword go through and blood flew everywhere. Then Kain wakes up 200 years later and a woman tells him that the Cabal has been nursing him back to health for all that time and that he's too weak to take on any vampire. Then the tutorial starts and Kain is being treated like child.

Whereas Ganon has been struck across the chest with the Master Sword (in Wind Waker) and doesn't have a scar to show for it. And then OoT spoilers and he's no worse for the wear. Neither of them show damage when struck.

There we differ.

As stated previously....he is immaterial and Raziels spiritual wraith blade failed against him as SovNarkom also gave quotes for.

No their not....nothing suggests this. The EG smashes rocks and areas of his cavern while attacking Raziel with just a few tentacles at a time and as stated previously he burrows throughout the word so he has the weight of the upper mantle on top of him and can penetrate into the "deep places of the world" , besides that his base strength is similair to any large entities strength based on mass and size.

The sword goes through, Kain is not disembowled and he is not damaged. Despite magic still remaining behind on his body the actual torso is not even scarred. Either thats super regeneration or some sort of other supernatural power, since its an FMV and the angle is pretty exact it cannot be a graphical glitch. yes he is knocked out for 200 years although we dont know why exactly, the actual wounds are unkown, my theory is that its connected to Blood omen 2 being created from Raziels time events and Kain is gaining new memories, similiar to how he does later.

Hes not been struck in any canon showing from what we have seen, certainly not in an outside of gameplay graphics FMV.....a lot of characters dont when using gameplay graphics, as argued earlier by other people gameplay graphics would not neceserily account for every detail especially in older games.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, to suggest physics doesn't matter is one of them ost ignorant things ever. 🙂

Cosmic Comet already proved Kratos' durability, so that's done for me, but yeah, being heavy means that when yopu're in motion, you have a lot of energy, which you will conduct to other masses you contact, this causes them to move.

Being crushed between two masses of equal energy, or one mass of great energy, and another of such size that it cannot be moved by the energy of the other mass (IE, a planet) will not make you move, because you are trapped between a rock and a hardplace, so to speak. 😐 all of the energy moving through you ends up dispersing against the mass on the other side.

But uh yeah. If you're not durable, youwill be crushed if the forces exceed what you can withstand. This is not the case.

SO, you seem to think you understand physics, and claim Kratos not being crushed defies physics, then tell me, what law of physics does this particular feat break? Specify what law is being defied, please. 🙂

In a fictonal game where you can have magical hands come out of your hat you bet your ass. These creators don't have to pay attention to anything in their story when creating their story. So I guess magical hands outside out a body are possible to come out of your hat, right? Everything in the game is logical, right?

No, he hasn't. Kratos had the strength to resist those feats in combat. If he stood there and let the enemies he faced cut him they'd cut him especially the boss characters.

If someone who outweighs you by more than hundreds of thousands of pounds tries to crush someone made of flesh and bone they will do so.

If I try to crush a diamond the diamond doesn't resist like Kratos it just doesn't get crushed. Kratos gets crushed if he doesn't resist. Duh. The sheer lunacy going on when playing these games in your heads is atrocious.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Now we're getting somewhere. Granted, I don't know where, but thank you nonetheless. Any examples from a physical weapon?

Scream covered this. Suffice to say, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't mind that you haven't learned much in the way of physics, but don't act like you know them.

Hang with them? Again, the boots just make Link heavy, they did not assist in throwing Gorons.

Because he's too light. What is so hard to understand about that? If it was upwards force, he wouldn't need them. Like here:

YouTube video

At 0:58, Link opens that massive door that has been closed for hundreds of years with no trouble, for instance. Pretty much all the boss doors are like this, too.

There is still nothing to suggest that Bo could stop a rolling Goron. You're simply assuming he can because he has the Iron Boots, but that's circular logic.

Your assuming he can simply because he knows the technique. We know that Bo can sumo a Goron, anything else is assuming, and you're still ignoring the fact that Dangoro is bigger than any other Goron in Twilight Princess.

To be honest, I doubt you know what you're talking about here. Kratos has enough durability to resist, just as a coin of block of wood has enough durability to resist you.

YouTube video

1:20

If you're far enough away, all the time.

[B]HAHAHAHAHA

ZANT DEFEATS KAIN

Looks to be an interesting matchup, then. Probably need to get rid of the Elder God to take out Raziel.

You assume that something in LoK is better than Link, therefore they can beat Zant. Prove that whatever is better than Link before you make that claim. Further, that ignores Zant's own abilities.

What are you talking about? Channelling? The Triforce of Power is a passive increase, and Ganondorf only channels it when he transforms. Regardless of that, the fact that you are still ignoring is that it failed because the Master Sword is designed to make it fail. No one on LoK has something that will make it fail like that, so the point is moot anyway.

Oh, and I thought you were just cherry picking and ignoring all the proof that Link is superhuman.

/sarcasm [/B]

Not when you're made of flesh and bone. Diamonds resists based on it's substance and Kratos resists because of his strength. It's two completely different concepts here. The diamond doesn't need to actively resist the feat like Kratos does.

Yes, they give Link the weight needed to outwrestle or stop them to throw them.

Yes, proving Bo can do so with the weight just like Link. There's no superstrength you just need gear to give you the weight needed to attack or resist the gorons size advantage.

Bo knew how to stop the goats and was the one who showed Link to how to defeat the gorons so why wouldn't he be able to do so since he bested a goron first and foremost?

So? If Bo was knows the tactic involved why can't he do the same as link? We already know he can stop the goat and outwrestle a goron why does it matter which ones Link faced off against? You can't prove Bo cannot and with all the evidence here Link needed Bo to give him the boots or else he was screwed on his own without them.

The enemies won't stand there and wait to die. Plus they can teleport large groups of enemies. I mean come on here. Don't be so naive.
I wouldn't go that far besides kain can teleport safely away from Zant if he wants to warp his surroundings into water.

Bingo. That's easier said than done though considering the massive forces and more impressive grunts than in tp.

Look at their abilities and the dangers they face. Facing giant spiders as opposed to giant vampires which do you feel is more impressive? The abilities of Raziel are far more impressive as well considering his blade, his tk, and his ability to keep coming back.

They don't need the master sword to kill Ganondrof so who cares. if you want to go by plot devices you can still defeat ganondrof without it whereas Kain is unkillable with the soulreaver. Ha. Any way you want it Kain still comes out on top.

There is no evidence whatsoever he is superhuman just well trained and skilled enough with the proper gear to get the job done.

That's all.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ahem...
The sheer fact Kratos used his strength against someone who carried the weight of a mountain on his back while fighting you. He is stronger than Kain and outweighs him by so much physics defy such a feat. He is made of flesh and blood and if he was made of diamond he wouldn't need to resist as Cronos couldn't crush him because of his diamond like skin.

Physics allow it, Nature does not.

Lol'd. Thank you for proving you don't know the first thing about physics. We're dealing mostly with Newton's laws of motion atm, and none of them are broken by having high durability. Period. You claim physics doesn't support the feats, when you cannot actually explain why. Again, you have no evidence and will claim something ad nauseum as if you think that will make it true. You're also still denying that Link is superhuman, which is patently laughable.

I suppose, according to your logic, Kratos only stopped himself from being crushed due to training as a Spartan? haermm

Cause, as ong as you have training, you don't need super strength. durlaugh

Their argueing with the idea that Gorons are tens if not hundreds of tons in weight which is not founded. Gorons moving weight being stopped by a kids body weight+some iron collapses this theory because a few tonnes would buckle said iron even if your of the "link is invulerables!" pursuation.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their argueing with the idea that Gorons are tens if not hundreds of tons in weight which is not founded. Gorons moving weight being stopped by a kids body weight+some iron collapses this theory because a few tonnes would buckle said iron even if your of the "link is invulerables!" pursuation.
The iron boots are clearly not normal iron, and are very heavy. Dangoro is so heavy that when he jumps on the platform Link is standing on, he snaps the very thick chains supporting it.

Edit: Shit, I acknowledged your existance. This thread will now become a blackhole which consumes all of KMC. May God have mercy on our souls.

Very thick? hardly and the chains themselves are already supporting that lump of rock, for all you know a ton or so would break that earth, if he was 200 tons he would have broken through the rock itself and into the lava. Also theres nothing to indicate their not normal iron, Bo simply points out their boots of iron, he never says anything about them having a magical enhancement of any kind. Ill give you that their fairly heavy being fairly large for a piece of iron to have on your feet, just heavy enough to stop a Goron which would shatter iron as thin as that if it was 200 tonnes.

Here we go again. mariofacepalm

Firstly, that's inaccurate, as we have no idea what the platform is made out of, but we do know it was designed to carry Goron weight. The boots clearly state that they are so heavy not even a Goron can move you when you wear them, this is heavier than some iron of equal size, because Goron's are not only larger and stronger than normal humans who can move that much iron, they have feats of ridiculous super strength, but are demonstrably denser than stone. Hell, they can eat rubies! The second hardest substance on earth, and they can chew and digest large ones. They sink in water, and snap the chains supporting large platforms just by standing on them. Also, you vastly underestimate how much weight a set of four thick chains like that could support.

We know its made of some kind of earth/rock perhaps with some metal for the magnetism on top surface.

It was designed to carry a certain amount of weight. We cannot be sure or certain if it was designed to take Dangaroo jumping while in full armour on top of it, obviously it was not. That does not mean a Goron is strong, infact that is supporting my idea that they are weak and light (in comaprison to your 100-200 ton claims) since they cannot move link while wearing iron on his feet. Being able to eat rubies does not mean their denser, only that their digestive systems are very unique to a humans. A ton or so would sink in water and perhaps even collapse said platoforms, Dangaroo bounces off lava....

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Physics allow it, Nature does not.
So physically it's possible for someone who is bigger than a mountain to be resisted by a man of his size?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol'd. Thank you for proving you don't know the first thing about physics. We're dealing mostly with Newton's laws of motion atm, and none of them are broken by having high durability. Period. You claim physics doesn't support the feats, when you cannot actually explain why. Again, you have no evidence and will claim something ad nauseum as if you think that will make it true. You're also still denying that Link is superhuman, which is patently laughable.

I suppose, according to your logic, Kratos only stopped himself from being crushed due to training as a Spartan? haermm

Cause, as ong as you have training, you don't need super strength. durlaugh

It wasn't his durability per say it was his strength which resisted it. if it was just his durability then he wouldn't need to resist Cronos' attempts. It seems most don't even understand the fact that he resisted him through strength not durability. If it was durability he'd let him just crush him since it wouldn't work.

If you play zelda and walk away thinking he's a physical beast then you need to replay zelda this one anyways as everything he did was done by someone else, prior to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their argueing with the idea that Gorons are tens if not hundreds of tons in weight which is not founded. Gorons moving weight being stopped by a kids body weight+some iron collapses this theory because a few tonnes would buckle said iron even if your of the "link is invulerables!" pursuation.
Yeah, I agree they are clearly wrong here and it's only fanatical zelda fans who insists he's super strong.

lol Link is not super strong, at least not without items to enhance him anyway. I may let it slide a little to say hes strong when wearing gauntlets in other games like in OoT but in this case Bo pretty much emphasises the only factor that their heavy is that their made of iron, he uses them as his way of beatin Gorons and he only outlines their made of iron, its pretty clear to anyone with sense and logic that they do not have some hidden magic enhancement. Bo would not have emphasised them being heavy because their made of iron if it was actually because of some magic enhancement....but I guess according to the Zelda fanatics it just slipped Bos mind or he was ignorant to it because it would ruin their figuires theyve pulled out of the air.

in the case of Gorons the block Dangaroo jumped on which was extremely heavy and far heavier than himself by the looks of it (larger amount of stone and metal combined) would have already put a lot of weight on those 4 chains, him jumping on them would make it worse, no wonder they snapped. Dongaroo and other Gorons cannot ourwrestle link when hes wearing iron on his feet, otherwise they would throw his weight to one side with their own, but Dongaroos combined weight is<<the weight of a boy+iron on his feet, perhaps also the weight of a larger older man (Bo) with iron on his feet although we dont know if Bo had to face Dongaroo, I would expect so if he has to pass it just to see the Gorons.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So physically it's possible for someone who is bigger than a mountain to be resisted by a man of his size?

Yes, Physics can allow this. However, Nature does not.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol Link is not super strong, at least not without items to enhance him anyway. I may let it slide a little to say hes strong when wearing gauntlets in other games like in OoT but in this case Bo pretty much emphasises the only factor that their heavy is that their made of iron, he uses them as his way of beatin Gorons and he only outlines their made of iron, its pretty clear to anyone with sense and logic that they do not have some hidden magic enhancement. Bo would not have emphasised them being heavy because their made of iron if it was actually because of some magic enhancement....but I guess according to the Zelda fanatics it just slipped Bos mind or he was ignorant to it because it would ruin their figuires theyve pulled out of the air.

in the case of Gorons the block Dangaroo jumped on which was extremely heavy and far heavier than himself by the looks of it (larger amount of stone and metal combined) would have already put a lot of weight on those 4 chains, him jumping on them would make it worse, no wonder they snapped. Dongaroo and other Gorons cannot ourwrestle link when hes wearing iron on his feet, otherwise they would throw his weight to one side with their own, but Dongaroos combined weight is<<the weight of a boy+iron on his feet, perhaps also the weight of a larger older man (Bo) with iron on his feet although we dont know if Bo had to face Dongaroo, I would expect so if he has to pass it just to see the Gorons.

Actually Link has superstrength but he's much weaker than Link with Golden Gauntlets.