LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it's like a plot device thing like Ganondorf possessing someone or the Hashagik possessing someone from zelda. I want both sides to duke it put physically.

Yeah, I can understand that. But there is a bit of cheapness on both sides. For instance:

LoK vampire weaknesses: impalement and fire

Bulbin primary weapon: flaming arrows

I see Kain taking half the forces while Raziel takes the other half whereas Link splits his forces with Ganondorf doing the same here. [/B]

Eh, Ganondorf has his own army, as do Zant, Midna, and Zelda. Link could take the Gorons and Zoras, though.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Yeah, I can understand that. But there is a bit of cheapness on both sides. For instance:

LoK vampire weaknesses: impalement and fire

Bulbin primary weapon: flaming arrows

Eh, Ganondorf has his own army, as do Zant, Midna, and Zelda. Link could take the Gorons and Zoras, though.

Who did you consider in Ganondorf's army?

Moebius had his own band of vampire hunters as well which could be considered a smaller army.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I figured that. Raziel and the Rahabim were the only vampires to actually survive in water. However, Rahabim are still vulnerable to sunlight.

I'm not so sure about Moebius and his hunters, though. How good are they?

Don't forget about Vorador as well.

Ganondorf can create his own minions to be his army. Moblins, Queen Gohma, revived Volvagia, Morpha (controls water; how inconvienient), Iron Knuckles, etc.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Speaking of sunlight, the Sun's song will be a pain in the arse for the vamps.
Undead and weak to sunlight? That's not good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who did you consider in Ganondorf's army?

His usual minions- Redeads, Stalfos and Darknuts being the big three. I think the Bulbins follow him, as well.

Zant and Midna have Twilight stuff- Twilight Beasts, most of the twilight formed creatures.

Zelda controls the Hylian military, as useless as they are, and Gorons and Zoras just rule themselves.

Originally posted by ares834
TP Link doesn't know the sun song.

Oh, shi-... This is TP Link, isn't it. Thanks for the notice. 😛

Originally posted by The Scenario
His usual minions- Redeads, Stalfos and Darknuts being the big three. I think the Bulbins follow him, as well.

Zant and Midna have Twilight stuff- Twilight Beasts, most of the twilight formed creatures.

Zelda controls the Hylian military, as useless as they are, and Gorons and Zoras just rule themselves.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Oh, shi-... This is TP Link, isn't it. Thanks for the notice. 😛

Those demon riders are actually phantom Ganon's.

Also, I have a secret weakness for not reading the OP.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Those demon riders are actually phantom Ganon's.

Also, I have a secret weakness for not reading the OP.

Quick question llllink what did Zant mean iyo at the end of the game when they showed him tilt his head right before the life left ganondorf's body?

Lol'd.

In seriousness, Ganondorf more than likely soloes everything that isn't the Elder god, and Link kills that within a few moments.

That is one of the questions that is still being debated, but I'll give you an idea.

Some people believe that Zant was Ganondorf's "medium" or link to the world of light from wherever he was when he gave Zant power. He probably wasn't in the Twilight Realm (even though we saw him get sucked in; I'll explain later), otherwise he would not need to use Zant at all; he could have just done everything himself minus a psychopath.
This is were the timeline BS kicks in. OoT:

Spoiler:
In OoT, Ganon received the Triforce of Power when he claimed the Triforce and it split because his heart was not in balance.

So anyway, some people think that when Zant broke his neck, it broke Ganondorf's link to the world of light, and he was no longer in the body that was left in the world of light, which is probably why we don't see Ganondorf get sealed or turned to stone.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Besides Kain, Raz and The Octomite who else is threatening on that side?

A Timestreamer, Mortanius, Janos Audron & Turel. The capabilities of the latter two are a little foggy to me.

Spectral enemies such as the Vampire Pillar Guardians aren't usable. Things in the Spectral Realm usually cannot harm people in the Physical.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
That is one of the questions that is still being debated, but I'll give you an idea.

Some people believe that Zant was Ganondorf's "medium" or link to the world of light from wherever he was when he gave Zant power. He probably wasn't in the Twilight Realm (even though we saw him get sucked in; I'll explain later), otherwise he would not need to use Zant at all; he could have just done everything himself minus a psychopath.
This is were the timeline BS kicks in. OoT:

Spoiler:
In OoT, Ganon received the Triforce of Power when he claimed the Triforce and it split because his heart was not in balance.

However, in TP, we see that neither the sages nor Ganondorf himself was aware that he had the ToP, and the sages themselves say that by some divine prank he obtained it right at that moment. Mega contridiction. This is what makes it confusing as to where Ganondorf actually was. Was he still sealed in the Sacred Realm, or was he in the Twilight world?

So anyway, some people think that when Zant broke his neck, it broke Ganondorf's link to the world of light, and he was no longer in the body that was left in the world of light, which is probably why we don't see Ganondorf get sealed or turned to stone.

It does look like Zant abandoned him right at the end so maybe he will make his major play to the ultimate baddie in the sequel if it is a continuation to tp that is.

I for one think he was nowhere even near Ganondorf in coolness but that's just me.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol'd.

In seriousness, Ganondorf more than likely soloes everything that isn't the Elder god, and Link kills that within a few moments.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I'm still trying to think of of this in an army based way, without the big characters. As I see it, Zelda has the advantage in numbers. It also has the Twilight Realm, which no one in LoK can reach, and can cover LoK in Twilight. Twilight Beasts are much harder to kill and keep dead than vampires are (Kain's dimensional teleport is literally the only thing that would work reliably).

In addition, I don't see LoK even touching the Zoras, as too few vampires can stand running water. So Lake Hylia will be a fairly large advantage here. We know Gorons don't need to breathe and can survive underwater, that's more points for the lake. Add in those special waterproof bombs and exploding fish, and hey, pretty good safe area.

Speaking of Gorons, those guys are tough. Best feat they have is one of them getting launched out of a volcano inside a chunk of semi-solid magma, then getting dropped through several layers of ice, and then coming out unharmed. He even tries to sell you things afterward. Further, Death Mountain is constantly erupting, dropping flaming rocks on everything that moves.

What numbers exactly? do we even know the numbers?

Zant had to defeat Zelda and her men before he could call down twilight, he did not do it outright. Not sure about that, if were talking Kains brood of the ancient era you need to actually destroy their bodies or impale them and even Raziel who is immensly strong cannot do that with his concrete slicing claws, theres no use having hundreds of ants (LoZ soldiers) nibbling at a tank (Dumahim vampire).

If were talking Defiance era then we get the council sorcerors.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The same goes for the elder god. Who knows if Link could see elder god just because characters from his own world couldn't. I can throw every piece of logic right back at you.

There are no exceptions I am doing this equally for both sides.

Do you actually think it's fair to have two armies go at it while ignoring Link's plot items completely while allowing the elder god to be unattackable?

He defeated her. Case closed. She was out of the fight and Ganondorf rode off like a studmuffin.

He wouldn't shatter himself if he sent various tentacles after Kain at the same time. He would need no more than like 20 to completely overwhelm him.

What you just said is not logic, its a blatant guess based on nothing and ignoring the Elder Gods statistic as being a spectoral being.

Elder God being unattackable is not a plot item and if it was, it would be a no limit fallacy. Elder God being unattackable is simply because in reality the LoZ team have nothing to hit him, its simple fact.

Not really that impressive, we dont know how he did it either.

Gameplay limitatons.....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol'd.

In seriousness, Ganondorf more than likely soloes everything that isn't the Elder god, and Link kills that within a few moments.

😆

Originally posted by quanchi112

You kidding me? First off how is he beating Kain?

Hes not, he would have problems with some of the larger Vampires let alone the elite ones.

^Isnt the EG 'hittable' for this thread, technically falling under rule 12? Or just by the thread starters rules.

Hyrule doest have the numbers in their favour. Zora's, basically useless out of the water and the vampires weak to water (unless some idiot switch was flipped) wont be anywhere near the water and leave it to the one that don't have the weakness or can TK.

He is hittable in this thread yes. Its not going to make much of a difference as he is too large for them to deal with, even if they manage to get rid of a few tentacles (not like hes going to allow them), he can multiply and regen them in seconds. The Elder God by the end of this thead would be multiplied in size than the original assuming they managed to damage his tentacles at all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What numbers exactly? do we even know the numbers?

Zant had to defeat Zelda and her men before he could call down twilight, he did not do it outright. Not sure about that, if were talking Kains brood of the ancient era you need to actually destroy their bodies or impale them and even Raziel who is immensly strong cannot do that with his concrete slicing claws, theres no use having hundreds of ants (LoZ soldiers) nibbling at a tank (Dumahim vampire).

If were talking Defiance era then we get the council sorcerors.

What you just said is not logic, its a blatant guess based on nothing and ignoring the Elder Gods statistic as being a spectoral being.

Elder God being unattackable is not a plot item and if it was, it would be a no limit fallacy. Elder God being unattackable is simply because in reality the LoZ team have nothing to hit him, its simple fact.

Not really that impressive, we dont know how he did it either.

Gameplay limitatons.....

😆

Hes not, he would have problems with some of the larger Vampires let alone the elite ones.

Yes, just like Link needed help from the light spirits and Zelda to be able to take on Ganondorf and teleport away in time because he was screwed. He also needed help from Midnia to even damage the Ganon beast because he was too smart to be continually tricked by arrows.

How isn't it impressive especially considering how powerful each boss was with just one third of her power? Ganondorf crushed her like she was nothing and a castle was destroyed which was impressive. It's not the most impressive thing ever but to make light of it or to downplay it just because we didn't see how he defeated her solely because you like Lok more isn't being fair.

No, it isn't gameplay limitations it's just he can't fight in this manner despite the fact you want him to be able to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He is hittable in this thread yes. Its not going to make much of a difference as he is too large for them to deal with, even if they manage to get rid of a few tentacles (not like hes going to allow them), he can multiply and regen them in seconds. The Elder God by the end of this thead would be multiplied in size than the original assuming they managed to damage his tentacles at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In any event he can see him and it's a copout on your part. Neither side needs plot events or weapons to injure or see the other opponents. This makes it possible for both sides to win.

Yes, just like Link needed help from the light spirits and Zelda to be able to take on Ganondorf and teleport away in time because he was screwed. He also needed help from Midnia to even damage the Ganon beast because he was too smart to be continually tricked by arrows.

How isn't it impressive especially considering how powerful each boss was with just one third of her power? Ganondorf crushed her like she was nothing and a castle was destroyed which was impressive. It's not the most impressive thing ever but to make light of it or to downplay it just because we didn't see how he defeated her solely because you like Lok more isn't being fair.

No, it isn't gameplay limitations it's just he can't fight in this manner despite the fact you want him to be able to.

He isn't too largeg for them to deal with by any means. Look at the size of some of the characters Link took on or how easily ganondorf destroyed Midna who was a huge powerful monster at the time.

Only in this event, without fairness involved they could not.

Its not impressive because toppling an old medieval castle does not compare to a continent sized squid. Considering the Elder God burrows throughout the Earth, in the deepest places (deep areas of a planet are mostly metal, ore etc) with ease he would topple that castle with one tentacle himself.

Its physically certain that he can, your using the fact that the exact point you fight EG he only uses a part of his form. Youve allowed the whole Elder God as an entity.

huge powerful monster? Midna was what, probably 15+ feet tall at the most?