LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Started by Burning thought85 pages

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Without possession of his Triforce of Power.

2. Someone else had it, or he was again without his Triforce of Power.

3. You cannot wank truth.

4. Statements via the game render this point useless. Ganon is not featless, and his durability is beyond the reach of anything in LoK.

1. Evidence that this makes a difference in durability?

2. Nah, it was outside a ring of fire, Ganon beat a beast Ganon using the triforce of power without the MS.

3. You manage to wank truth into your own lies and fanon. Ganon with the full trueforce is defeated by old men and knights....

4. 😆 another fanon....most of LoK's mid-high tier would kill /defeat Dorf.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not as basic as a plot device. The Elder God by his own physilogy is untouchable by physical and spirit so although technically the Soul reaver is required by Kain to harm the Elder God its still canon that he cannot be harmed by physical or spirit.

Their canon yes, but in Ganons case claiming master sword is required is a no limit fallacy.

You should have stopped at the Nexus stone, thats what defeated him....and Kain is still nowhere near as powerful then as he is now.

You did not answer my argument, you made a straw man devised to claim that I am "inventing" statistics for the Elder God. If you dont know his size, strength and power then do not try and claim against it.

He was technically already defeated, it still sliced right through him. He stood around for a few minutes while they did this. Based on your theory of using the characters exactly how the game has portrayed their actions in a specific cirumstance then this will happen here, and in 2 minutes Kain beheads him.

Defeated through PIS. Also stop trying to act like every Kain from every era is the same, he is vastly different across his thousands of years life.

Yes, just like Ganondorf is practically immune to certain weapons other than what Link brings into battle here. In the game that is required but not on here just like Kain doesn't need light arrows or Link's sword.

That's the same thing as you claiming you need a combined reaver to see and defeat the elder god. Same thing.

The point is Kain didn't show up without an army because he needed one. That's obvious and he's never soloed an army and both times he met them in battle he was unsuccessful in these two examples.

I do know how big he is and I saw how big he was when Kain fought him. We use the version in combat from the game with his abilities he used in combat against Kain. I have no problem with him attacking from where he is burrowed in but you acting like 1,000 tendrils all strike at once is ridiculous and you making things up. The guy was only impressive in the game because only Raziel could see him and he was behind the scenes.

If he recovers in the same scene then he is not defeated. Raziel ripping out Kain's heart is defeating Kain.

I could see ganondrof rip out his heart and while Raziel alone was enough to match Kain ganondorf was attacked by hyrules' best mages all at once which is a lot harder to overcome than one opponent.

Pick an era and tell me when he defeated an entire army on a battlefield by himself. You can keep ignoring how Kain fights and reality all you want I'll call you on it each time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Evidence that this makes a difference in durability?

Without even requiring thought, the event itself serves as sufficient evidence. Sword stab kills a normal man. First, Ganon gets stabbed, so he's going to die. His Triforce of Power activates, and the Sword is now nothing to him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
2. Nah, it was outside a ring of fire, Ganon beat a beast Ganon using the triforce of power without the MS.

Lol. Link uses Light Arrows or stuns him with the Megaton Hammer. No real argument for you here.

Originally posted by Burning thought
3. You manage to wank truth into your own lies and fanon. Ganon with the full trueforce is defeated by old men and knights....

😆 You and Sin act like this matters. The Sages are powerful people in every Zelda game, and those Knights possessed the Master Sword, which is a stated failsafe for the Trueforce. Think about things before you say them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
4. 😆 another fanon....most of LoK's mid-high tier would kill /defeat Dorf.

Based on the zero feats you have shown over the many months you've spent insisting Kain stomps just about everything on this forum?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, just like Ganondorf is practically immune to certain weapons other than what Link brings into battle here. In the game that is required but not on here just like Kain doesn't need light arrows or Link's sword.

That's the same thing as you claiming you need a combined reaver to see and defeat the elder god. Same thing.

The point is Kain didn't show up without an army because he needed one. That's obvious and he's never soloed an army and both times he met them in battle he was unsuccessful in these two examples.

I do know how big he is and I saw how big he was when Kain fought him. We use the version in combat from the game with his abilities he used in combat against Kain. I have no problem with him attacking from where he is burrowed in but you acting like 1,000 tendrils all strike at once is ridiculous and you making things up. The guy was only impressive in the game because only Raziel could see him and he was behind the scenes.

If he recovers in the same scene then he is not defeated. Raziel ripping out Kain's heart is defeating Kain.

I could see ganondrof rip out his heart and while Raziel alone was enough to match Kain ganondorf was attacked by hyrules' best mages all at once which is a lot harder to overcome than one opponent.

Pick an era and tell me when he defeated an entire army on a battlefield by himself. You can keep ignoring how Kain fights and reality all you want I'll call you on it each time.

Kain has more powerful spells and weapons than Mastersword/light arrow combination which is why he does not need them.

Its not the same as my claim is not a failure of logic, a no limit fallacy. Link or Ganon do not possess the combined elements of the reaver and the EG is immune to what they do have.

He was unsuccessful solely because of an unforseen item that his opponent had that directly eliminated his weapons.

So you know he is a mass that covers the entire Nosgoth continent? not just the small piece Kain happened to face, tell me....why do you think the Elder God decided not to use his entire form to crush Kain?

PIS, Kain was not trying to kill Raziel, infact Kain did not try to do anything. Arguable, theres a big difference between defeat and kill.

With what? and how so? Kains not going to be standing around waiting for him to do it, or allow himself to get weakened enough. Hyrules best mages? show me this scene, not sure I have seen it.

As Kain states in his FMV of Soul reaver 2, "as long as a single one of us stands, we are a legion", Kains not the brash and arrogant warrior he is in Blood omen at the time. Kain in this fight has all his powers, and with those powers and his intelligence he any fool can work out how a combination of Kains powers can allow him to crush a lot of the hyrule resistance by himself.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Without even requiring thought, the event itself serves as sufficient evidence. Sword stab kills a normal man. First, Ganon gets stabbed, so he's going to die. His Triforce of Power activates, and the Sword is now nothing to him.

Lol. Link uses Light Arrows or stuns him with the Megaton Hammer. No real argument for you here.

😆 You and Sin act like this matters. The Sages are powerful people in every Zelda game, and those Knights possessed the Master Sword, which is a stated failsafe for the Trueforce. Think about things before you say them.

Based on the zero feats you have shown over the many months you've spent insisting Kain stomps just about everything on this forum?

Nothing? its still sticking through him, theres nothing to suggest it makes him more resistant to damage.

But not the Master sword 😉

Powerful? including the sages who stand helpless for minutes while Ganon breaks free in TP only to have one of their number killed in a punch? I lold....and theres been no evidence of the MS being present or that its an instant"lolz I wins!" in the presence of the trueforce.

Random statement

I don't see his durability changing I see the effects of the damage caused being rendered moot because of the triforce's effects.

Ganon can live while impaled but that does not help him if hes been sliced into shish kebab!

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain has more powerful spells and weapons than Mastersword/light arrow combination which is why he does not need them.

Its not the same as my claim is not a failure of logic, a no limit fallacy. Link or Ganon do not possess the combined elements of the reaver and the EG is immune to what they do have.

He was unsuccessful solely because of an unforseen item that his opponent had that directly eliminated his weapons.

So you know he is a mass that covers the entire Nosgoth continent? not just the small piece Kain happened to face, tell me....why do you think the Elder God decided not to use his entire form to crush Kain?

PIS, Kain was not trying to kill Raziel, infact Kain did not try to do anything. Arguable, theres a big difference between defeat and kill.

With what? and how so? Kains not going to be standing around waiting for him to do it, or allow himself to get weakened enough. Hyrules best mages? show me this scene, not sure I have seen it.

As Kain states in his FMV of Soul reaver 2, "as long as a single one of us stands, we are a legion", Kains not the brash and arrogant warrior he is in Blood omen at the time. Kain in this fight has all his powers, and with those powers and his intelligence he any fool can work out how a combination of Kains powers can allow him to crush a lot of the hyrule resistance by himself.

Nothing? its still sticking through him, theres nothing to suggest it makes him more resistant to damage.

But not the Master sword 😉

Powerful? including the sages who stand helpless for minutes while Ganon breaks free in TP only to have one of their number killed in a punch? I lold....and theres been no evidence of the MS being present or that its an instant"lolz I wins!" in the presence of the trueforce.

Random statement

You can't prove that by any means so quit acting like Kainverse is just mightier than zeldaverse. That's what fanboys do explain away everything like their verse is just more powerful in every regard without proving it.

How do you know the eg is immune to what they have? For you to prove that you need to show any zelda character attacking eg and failing? so since you can't prove it you have no choice but to concede.

The fact he was unsuccessful has nothing to do with the fact he showed up with an army he needed anyways. He needed the army because he can't just beat an army on his own. It's obvious and any honest person playing the games knows he can't solo the army.

I don't know why he didn't the same reason Kain doesn't mist in and out through virtually every battle he gets into.

I know he wasn't trying to defeat the possessed raziel but he still got beat despite the fact he can teleport and use his mist right so why didn't he? According to you no one can touch him so please explain.

Kain was ko'd when his heart was ripped out and for a longer period than Ganondorf who was subdued by various mages off screen.

Kain will be locked in battle with Ganondorf so he will be right up on him. He can also teleport and shoot phantom ganon riders after him while on his trusty horsey.

It's the scene where he was chained up and the mages tried to kill him. Dunno where it is online have to look around youtube.

You are taking his comment out of context. He can't solo an army and never has been able to so quit just making things up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganon can live while impaled but that does not help him if hes been sliced into shish kebab!
Kain can live while having a heart transplant but can also be murdered while he lays out in the recovery room.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nothing? its still sticking through him, theres nothing to suggest it makes him more resistant to damage.

He walks like it isn't there. He pulls it out when he feels like it. As opposed to it just flatout killing him like it would a normal person.

OoT's Ganon bossfight had him taking more damage from Link and himself than Kain could ever hope to dish out.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But not the Master sword 😉

Yeah, so the Light Arrows don't kill him, but disintegrate anything that isn't him. And the Megaton hammer stuns him. It's like a bright flash, only instead of using light you have to hit him on the tail with a hammer commonly used for smashing huge rocks.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Powerful? including the sages who stand helpless for minutes while Ganon breaks free in TP only to have one of their number killed in a punch? I lold....and theres been no evidence of the MS being present or that its an instant"lolz I wins!" in the presence of the trueforce.

You treat being killed in a punch by Ganondorf like it means they are weak, as opposed to showing Ganon's incredible strength. But no actually, those would not be the same Sages.

And if you knew anything about Zelda then you would know that the Knights possessed the Master Sword. In ALttP, it was the Knights who were the only ones capable of using it. Continuing to exploit your lack of knowledge, there are statements in ALttP or other games that say the Master Sword is used for this.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Random statement

Pretty relevant actually. I can name everything you've ever showed a video for.

TK, Mist form, Teleportation, blood techniques, pushing blocks.

TK vids have never shown anything heavier than a human. Mist form cannot be proven to remain under Kain's control when separated beyond an inch or two. Teleportation is not as fast as you want it to be. Blood techniques do not work on things with durability, and Kain's blocks have only added up to 40 tons.

None of this is useful against Ganondorf.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ironic considering this is a LOK vs TP thread. Two games that contain some of the ugliest characters I've ever seen (Kain and midna).

TP has many pretty characters including Ilia, Prince Ralis, Queen Rutela, Ashei, Agitha, Beth, and Iza.

Majora's Mask has the ugly characters: Tingle, Goron elder, Odolwa, etc.

Also Midna is:

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Cute.

Only when I'm not wearing my glasses. Of course when I'm not I could mistake a lion for Jason Alexander.

I get that bt hasn't played twilight but have any of the zelda fans played defiance?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganon can live while impaled but that does not help him if hes been sliced into shish kebab!

Yes it does. Do you not remember giant (not) flaming head form? Ganondorf's body can be completely destroyed and he'll reform within 60 seconds.

Also, I find it ridiculous that you're claiming that the Elder God is invulnerable to everything because its canon, yet you won't let Ganondorf have the same thing despite his invulnerability also being canon. There are statements within the game that say Ganondorf can't be defeated without the Master Sword, just like the Elder God. It's the same thing, but you just hate Zelda.

Please provide feats if you want to claim otherwise. That's what I always do.

Edit: quanchi, BT hasn't played any Zelda game. Ever. He just hates everything about them.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Yes it does. Do you not remember giant (not) flaming head form? Ganondorf's body can be completely destroyed and he'll reform within 60 seconds.

Also, I find it ridiculous that you're claiming that the Elder God is invulnerable to everything because its canon, yet you won't let Ganondorf have the same thing despite his invulnerability also being canon. There are statements within the game that say Ganondorf can't be defeated without the Master Sword, just like the Elder God. It's the same thing, but you just hate Zelda.

Please provide feats if you want to claim otherwise. That's what I always do.

I don't even think bt knows he's using a double standard here. I think in his own mind he's being completely fair about this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I get that bt hasn't played twilight but have any of the zelda fans played defiance?
I own it.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
I own it.
I figured some of the posters had but I also figured some haven't. I honestly see Kain's side prevailing here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't even think bt knows he's using a double standard here. I think in his own mind he's being completely fair about this.

This is not a new theory. I think it's even been proven.

Speaking as a Zelda worshipper and guru since the age of 5 (at 8 I could beat the Blind's dungeon in LttP with my eyes closed, truf) I promise you that Link/Ganondorf mop this up fairly easy.

Even if Link and Ganondorf weren't in this fight, the Goddesses could intervene (like when they flooded Hyrule).

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This is not a new theory. I think it's even been proven.
The funny thing is I have always thought kain's side wins but with how ridiculous he was I found myself arguing against him more than anything else. Neither side stomps no matter how it plays it unless you're extremely biased towards one side.

I still think Gorons are too hard to take down easily, and Twilight offers some major advantages.