Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I didn't. Kraots is lifting a huge door not struggling to wield a weapon in combat. Big difference there. Kratos is really strong whereas Link isn't. He's at or slightly above Bo strength. I argue based on how they are portrayed and Link isn't portrayed strong you just take his feats and exaggerate them.
Kratos is struggling to lift a door that Link opens easily. So, no, no big difference. Further, you have once again claimed that Link is weak just because he is weak. Further still, you don't seem to understand either what the word "feat" means, what the word "portray" means, or possibly both. Feats = portrayal.
He accessed the triforce of power and still got spanked by the mages. Despite being favored in this way it didn't matter and he was easily bested and only managed to take one with him.
Congratulations on ignoring all evidence and simply restating the same argument you used last time. You're taking things out of context and calling them unimpressive. You once again ignore crucial facts in favour of simply using your preconceived opinions without even revising them to suit the argument.
I will explain it again, and maybe add even more context. At that point in time, Ganondorf was still part of a band of theives, and relatively inexperienced with magic. The sages even said he was blinded by ambition and captured. What you don't seem to realize is that this moment is a flashback. It happened a long freaking time ago. At that point in time Ganondorf was much weaker and less skilled. He is then stabbed through the heart and killed, before being brought back by the Triforce of Power, which he did not even have before that point.
Now, I want you to put yourself in Ganondorf's place here. You think you're dead, when suddenly you find that you're alive again. You have a sword in your heart, which freaking hurts. Now remember that you've never weilded much magic before, and then a divine artifact full of strength and magic just falls in your lap. Do you know how to use it? No, it just appeared there a second ago. Are you still confused as to why you're still alive despite a sword in your chest? You bet you are. You're disoriented and confused, and lash out blindly at the first thing you see, which happens to be the Sage of Water. After completely disintegrating his with a mere touch, you remember that you still have a sword in your chest. As you pull it out (this still hurts, by the way), the Sages activate that mirror you never knew about and then suddenly you're disintegrating.
Bottom line: GANONDORF WAS NOT AT FULL POWER THERE. STOP PRETENDING HE WAS.
Link is comparable to Bo who is an out of his prime mayor who seems to match him just fine. Dorf also doesn't show any strength feats at all he just has access to magic and power. Kain has them both beat. Kain also manhandles raziel and can easily tear hearts out through armor yet what can these guys do by strength alone?
Bo does not match Link. You're now claiming that Bo was not at his best, while ignoring the fact that Ganondorf was not at his best. Nice. Further, Bo had no flashback, we don't even know when he did it or what shape he was in. You are simply assuming things that are not shown. I'm sure in your mind youre picturing Bo as being a lean strong man bulging with muscle when he wrestled the Goron, but no, that is not shown, so you can't claim out of shape when we don't know Bo's original shape.
You're also ignoring your own claim, that skill and training determine what someone can do. Bo was much more skilled, since he taught Link, right? Haven't you been saying that wasn't Link's strength that let him win against the Gorons, but his skill? Yet now that doesn't seem to apply to Bo, now that it's disadvantageous to you. That also ignores the fact that Link defeated the Goron Cheif, the greatest wrestler of them all. Does that mean Link suddenly became an absolute master despite learning how only an hour before? See, I think it was his strength.
The point is Bo had the skills and the gear to best one and Link can't throw them unless they roll at him so Bo and Link are comparable and both can beat Gorons. You can't say Bo can't do what Link can't since he taught Link how to best them in the first place.
See above for skill. Now, why are you saying Link can't throw a Goron when they're not rolling? Is it because of he simply didn't throw anyone during the wrestling match, despite that being the only outlier among tons of other throws? But Quanchi, surely you realize that Link wasn't taught how to throw Gorons while wrestling, and you say Link can't do anything he wasn't taught how to do. That's a little contraictory, isn't it?
And isn't it also an example of how you take one low feat and just run with it, despite the availability of better feats? Link throws at least 20 Gorons, but the one time he doesn't throw one means he suddenly can't anymore? But that's clearly contradictory! Surely you realize that 20 throws trump 1 not-throw, correct?
Link edges him out despite him being older and in terrible shape. That doesn't bode well for Link or Gorons seeing as how Bo bested one and is comparable to Link.
Terrible shape? I just went over this. You still don't know what shape Bo was in, do you? If you do, evidence would be nice, don't you agree? And are you ignoring things again? Oh yes, the Goron Cheif being a better wrestler than all of the other Gorons. I say again that Bo defeated a random Goron, but Link defeated a master.
It's a video game with magic involved so please quit trying to make sense of it. He needs the boots and so did Bo and we don't even know their weight so you have nothing.
But Quanchi, how else are we to determine what these characters are capable of? Do you have evidence that magic was in use during this instance? You seem to have less than I do, seeing as you have to claim that reality doesn't apply.
The boss swung it effortlessly while Link needs to arms to barely toss it so yes Link is far weaker than the boss which is how he is portrayed.
Oh, come now, you know better than that! See, I had outlined this list of things that the boss does that were inferior to Link, and you just go right back to spouting that Link is weak without even once addressing the points I made. That isn't very nice!
Dorf lost both times no matter what he faced. He got killed by one sword impalement and even when he survived the first one he was still easily beaten and exhausted according to you. Thanks again.
Awww man, really? That's too bad that you didn't want to read my post. I made some pretty good points there, I thooght. Now I have to do it again, huh? But I already did! Oh well, maybe somebody else will read it.
Most bosses need to be beaten time and time again. He gets stabbed and his body isn't even destroyed yet he lost and in the first battle he got impaled and was weakened so in dorf form a sword impalement spells trouble for him. Kain walks all over him.
What first battle are you talking about, Quanchi? I mean, I was just saying that there was that time when an inexperienced Ganondorf got executed and BFR'd by the Sages, but I didn't think that was a battle since Ganondorf wasn't at full power.
Hey, hey! Did you read my post there? I thought it was good one. You know, all that stuff about Ganondorf reforming his body and reviving and stuff, at least until that Master sword messed up that power. I mean really, why bother with the reviving and body reforming when your opponent has a sword that cancels it out? Yeah, that Master Sword is a toughie, alright. I guess it's a good thing Kain doesn't have it, huh? But its not like even the Master Sword worked instantly, though. I mean, look at those boss fights! He had to weakened a ton to even get to that point, too. Really, with stuff like that and no Master Sword, how in the world could Kain hope to win?
He was helpless anyways and died and you are speculating on why he died. he gets really weak when he gets impaled and both times he lost so just like I stated it spells trouble and near defeat.
Yeah, you're right! That only works when Ganondorf's already near defeat! That's a pretty cool thing to notice. Yeah, look at how Ganondorf was already captured and weak that first time, and then had four boss fights just to get him like that for the second time! It looks like Kain's got his work cut out for him, huh?
They had a long sword battle and he took the reaver off him and won due to the nexus stone. Kain comes back and kills him when his strength returns. He tosses the nexus stone aside and still bests him despite the Hylden Lord wielding the reaver.
Oooooh! Isn't that cool! It's just like with Ganondorf, isn't it? They had that really long battle and then one guy won with this special sword that had a special effect! Of course, that second part didn't happen except for Ganondorf always coming back. But he can't touch the Master Sword, y'know.
You from what I recall debated with him or started maybe using quotes from both to argue with to make it hard to follow along.
But I gave you the page! Didn't you read it? That's kind of thing always makes me a little crazy...you haven't noticed anything like that, have you?
In any event the lok side wins.
Oh, the madness, when will it end? Does it end? It's just a little crazy, huh, Quanchi? Just crazy.