Originally posted by The Scenario
And there we have it! Link is only 30 times away from Kratos in strength. That right there puts him miles above Kain.0:21, look at that door, man. Show me the doors Kratos opens.
Is that dude really trying to argue gameplay mechanics? facepalm
I assume Link 'struggling' with that ball and chain is a GM.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste1.Why not? Bosses are to show they cannot be easily killed like minor henchmen.
Lawl,
1. Gameplay mechanics are not an argument.
2. An arrow shot by Link would pack incredible force. 😐Your argument is not only invalid, it sucks.
Edit: Link could easily one shot Hylden, and "looks" and a title mean shit, when Moblins actually show strength.
2.It's the same force as any archer would pack not that much considering what kinds of forces are in these games.
Not at all. He can't even oneshot purple ogres running at him with billyclubs.
Originally posted by NemeBrohe isn't strong enough to stop it on his own he needs the boots. If I put iron boots on irl I can't beat a sumo wrestler. How don't you get this? Without them on Link gets tossed around.
1. Not if you are strong enough to stop it, which Link clearly is, but you lack the basic human intelligence to work that out.2. Except when he performs physical feats that a human could not do. Bo is obviously very strong then.
You're not worth mine or anyone on this board's time. Leave.
2.Strong enough to stop a goat and unrealistically sumo with iron boots on yet run at the first sight of a wolf.
Originally posted by The ScenarioThat number was just there to prove a point.
And there we have it! Link is only 30 times away from Kratos in strength. That right there puts him miles above Kain.0:21, look at that door, man. Show me the doors Kratos opens.
Wow, I can't beleive you just said that with a straight face. Have you played more games than Twilight Princess? Wind Waker for instance features Ganondorf eliminating everything that caused him to lose in the past, thereby correcting his mistakes. He only lost there because of a Deus Ex Machina.
You're a fool if you honestly think this.
You can't see it can you? I have repeatedly pointed out every reason you have just failed, and then you repeat that same failing again.
You didn't see any difference? I literally just went over the four boss battles twice, and you've ignored me again. Either actually address my points, or get out.
Proof of that claim? If it was skill, why did Bo, the master, lose? See, you're just ignoring everything I say and repeating the same points again and again.
Oh my god you're actually serious. This just makes it funnier to me how set in stone you are, utterly convinced you can't be wrong. 20 throws vs. 1 not-throw, and you actually chose the not throw as canon? There you have it, Quanchi, you are now officially reaching for ways Link loses despite the evidence staring you in the face..
I'm not, just pointing out your sheer lack of evidence for any claim you make. Bo wrestles, he doesn't fight. Do you have evidence that he would not be afraid if wolf Link even if he were in your as yet unproven shape?
Artstyle, man. Skyward Sword isn't brown. Besides, you quoted him saying the Twilight Princess was too realistic. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
There was a list of reasons this is not true. You have once again ignored it and repeated the same thing you said last time.
Link is uber, what do you expect?
You're admitting Kain was weaker there? See, if I was you, I would be claiming that since Kain was defeated like that once, it automatically invalidates any wins afterward.
Why, because you can't find a counter to it? Face it, man, the developers intended for Ganondorf to just keep getting back up. That's how he's portrayed.
You're forgetting that Ganondorf can reform from nothing after his body is destroyed. You basically admitted that Ganondorf won since you had to nerf him. That reaver thing is a no limits fallacy by the way.
I just pointed out that at that point, I was not the one who gave up and left.
Circular logic and false premise. You need to stop doing that.
He unlocks it and it opens. It's not a feat at all. Look at how he struggles with the ball and chains.
No, I haven't played anymore other than the original and alttp. Now don't tell me because in the future I will probably play it. I didn't read your response and am almost through oot as we speak and you better believe you are getting my opinion when i do beat it.
I didn't fail I won.
The point is both times he gets stabbed it affects him and when you take Kain on at the end of games you can tag him all you want but at the end he is fine as well. In actual fights you don't have to lower energy bars you can just stab them if you get the opening.
Bo is older and loses to a peer. They are in the same strength class so him losing to Link is fine because neither are superstrong.
It's common sense he can only throw them while rolling because if he was this strong he could easily best them in a matchup but he can only due so with skill not by sheer domination.
The games themselves aren't realistic and he feels this look better grasps the unrealistic play of the games. I didn't shoot anything but a bullseye.
Link isn't uber that's the thing.
No, he wasn't weaker but the other guy had an item which made it impossible for Kain to win that's why he lost.
Kain has fought many times and came back unaffected. He has only lost once officially due to a plot device weapon which counters him. The entire nosgoth is plotting against him and they cannot beat him despite every side wanting his death. That's how good he is. His reign has lasted thousands of years and he's still fine. he even had his heart ripped out yet a simple sword impalement killed Dorf. Kain's far superior in every way.
He can't reform after everything since he didn't reform against the sages nor did he against Link. Whoops.
I am still here you need to actually respond to just me in your quotes then.
It's true.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That number was just there to prove a point.
That point being that even though Link is weaker than Kratos, he's still above Kain.
He unlocks it and it opens. It's not a feat at all. Look at how he struggles with the ball and chains.
Did you even watch the video? Link quite clearly pushed upward on the door before it opened. Oh, and there you go with your old standby. I could show a video of Link picking up a mountain and you'd just say he's weak because of the Ball & Chain. That's called denial and gameplay mechanics. I've already proven you wrong, and until you address that point, claiming Ball & Chain will not work.
No, I haven't played anymore other than the original and alttp. Now don't tell me because in the future I will probably play it. I didn't read your response and am almost through oot as we speak and you better believe you are getting my opinion when i do beat it.
Bolded for emphasis, as that goes without saying.
I didn't fail I won.
Nice argument. Fail 2 for useless post. Until you understand that nobody is at their best all the time, I can't take you seriously.
The point is both times he gets stabbed it affects him and when you take Kain on at the end of games you can tag him all you want but at the end he is fine as well. In actual fights you don't have to lower energy bars you can just stab them if you get the opening.
Again, you ignore my points and simply repeat exactly what you said last time, and you still do not support it. Kain won't recieve that opening until Ganondorf is sufficiently weakened, but by then he'll be dead.
Bo is older and loses to a peer. They are in the same strength class so him losing to Link is fine because neither are superstrong.
You sound like a broken record. I ask you for proof and you just repeat everything you just said. I grow tired of reading the same thing 20 times because you won't support anything you say and are actually refusing to argue right now.
It's common sense he can only throw them while rolling because if he was this strong he could easily best them in a matchup but he can only due so with skill not by sheer domination.
Stop bringing up common sense. Common sense once said the Earth was flat. What I need from you is some evidence. Proof. Support. Any of these words ringing a bell? I have posted videos in the past that prove you wrong on this, yet you continue.
The games themselves aren't realistic and he feels this look better grasps the unrealistic play of the games. I didn't shoot anything but a bullseye.
You quoted him saying Twilight Princess was too realistic. You claimed that Twilight Princess wasn't realistic. See that bloody stump? It used to be your foot.
Link isn't uber that's the thing.
And the total lack of evidence proves it. Look again, Quanchi, you're a broken record. If you'd stop ignoring Link's feats, we might get somewhere.
No, he wasn't weaker but the other guy had an item which made it impossible for Kain to win that's why he lost.
Link has this item that makes it impossible for Ganondorf to win. It's called the Master Sword.
Kain has fought many times and came back unaffected. He has only lost once officially due to a plot device weapon which counters him. The entire nosgoth is plotting against him and they cannot beat him despite every side wanting his death. That's how good he is. His reign has lasted thousands of years and he's still fine. he even had his heart ripped out yet a simple sword impalement killed Dorf. Kain's far superior in every way.
Ganondorf only loses to a plot device weapon that counters him. See, here's where you double standard becomes all too apparent. All of Hyrule plots against Ganondorf, too, and they cannot beat him, despite every side wanting his death. That's how good he is. His reign has also lasted, and he has survived being stabbed in the skull, having his entire body destroyed, and exploding castles and comes back fine every single time. You, Quanchi, are willing to let a plot device like the Nexus Stone beat Kain, but why won't you allow the same type of plot device to defeat Ganondorf? Now, I see you are referring to the Master Sword as a simple impalement, while nothing could be further from the truth. Ganondorf has come back from things Kain wishes he could survive. Kain wishes he could blow up a damn castle. That's just two areas where Kain fails against Ganondorf.
He can't reform after everything since he didn't reform against the sages nor did he against Link. Whoops.
Yes, he did, weren't you paying attention? In fact, he did so twice against Link. After the Puppet Zelda fight, and then again after the Ganon fight. In both instances Ganondorf's body was destroyed, and he reformed. That's all the the evidence I need to say that Ganondorf can revive himself at least twice before Kain even has a chance at killing him for good. And you are aware that Ganondorf couldn't reform the final time due to a plot device in his chest that is explicitly stated to cancel his powers, right?
I am still here you need to actually respond to just me in your quotes then.
I don't really care what you do, honestly. I often respond to posts directed at other people.
It's true.
It isn't true until you prove that it's true.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Anyway, there are 5 statues, so 2 1/2 times Link's weight plus a final huge statue that is equal to the above 5, making one platform 5 times as heavy as Link. With Iron Boots, Link is still heavier than all of it, so it's still inconclusive, but that is enough to prove that it isn't "just slabs of iron on his feet." Assuming Link weighs even 140 lbs (63 kg, on the conservative side) then each boot would have to weigh upwards of 300 lbs (138 kg) for a total of 600 lbs (272 kg.) For boots of that size (BT claims that they are very thin), iron just is not heavy enough.
This is what I was refering to.
Problem is, they are iron, its more likely the statues are not a canon example of their weight. Either way they are simply slabs of iron on Links feet, and it makes him heavy enough to stop rolling Dangoro, therefore hes not that heavy at all. I can give that Link can lift several times his own weight which is fair enough but not much more.
But anywho, Kain or the EG solo this. Link and Zant at least will be dead in the first few minutes assuming the EG goes to sleep.
Originally posted by The ScenarioNo, Kain is much stronger than Link who needs gear I bet in every game especially this one for strength feats.
That point being that even though Link is weaker than Kratos, he's still above Kain.Did you even watch the video? Link quite clearly pushed upward on the door before it opened. Oh, and there you go with your old standby. I could show a video of Link picking up a mountain and you'd just say he's weak because of the Ball & Chain. That's called denial and gameplay mechanics. I've already proven you wrong, and until you address that point, claiming Ball & Chain will not work.
Bolded for emphasis, as that goes without saying.
Nice argument. Fail 2 for useless post. Until you understand that nobody is at their best all the time, I can't take you seriously.
Again, you ignore my points and simply repeat exactly what you said last time, and you still do not support it. Kain won't recieve that opening until Ganondorf is sufficiently weakened, but by then he'll be dead.
You sound like a broken record. I ask you for proof and you just repeat everything you just said. I grow tired of reading the same thing 20 times because you won't support anything you say and are actually refusing to argue right now.
Stop bringing up common sense. Common sense once said the Earth was flat. What I need from you is some evidence. Proof. Support. Any of these words ringing a bell? I have posted videos in the past that prove you wrong on this, yet you continue.
You quoted him saying Twilight Princess was too realistic. You claimed that Twilight Princess wasn't realistic. See that bloody stump? It used to be your foot.
And the total lack of evidence proves it. Look again, Quanchi, you're a broken record. If you'd stop ignoring Link's feats, we might get somewhere.
Link has this item that makes it impossible for Ganondorf to win. It's called the Master Sword.
Ganondorf only loses to a plot device weapon that counters him. See, here's where you double standard becomes all too apparent. All of Hyrule plots against Ganondorf, too, and they cannot beat him, despite every side wanting his death. That's how good he is. His reign has also lasted, and he has survived being stabbed in the skull, having his entire body destroyed, and exploding castles and comes back fine every single time. You, Quanchi, are willing to let a plot device like the Nexus Stone beat Kain, but why won't you allow the same type of plot device to defeat Ganondorf? Now, I see you are referring to the Master Sword as a simple impalement, while nothing could be further from the truth. Ganondorf has come back from things Kain wishes he could survive. Kain wishes he could blow up a damn castle. That's just two areas where Kain fails against Ganondorf.
Yes, he did, weren't you paying attention? In fact, he did so twice against Link. After the Puppet Zelda fight, and then again after the Ganon fight. In both instances Ganondorf's body was destroyed, and he reformed. That's all the the evidence I need to say that Ganondorf can revive himself at least twice before Kain even has a chance at killing him for good. And you are aware that Ganondorf couldn't reform the final time due to a plot device in his chest that is explicitly stated to cancel his powers, right?
I don't really care what you do, honestly. I often respond to posts directed at other people.
It isn't true until you prove that it's true.
No, comparing doors to gow doors is foolish Link needs keys to open the doors and can't just manhandle his way in like Kratos. When he wields the ball and chain we see how weak he is.
I didn't read your response when you started blabbering about other games as it has no place here. Wow.
I never took you seriously. We saw dorf twice get beat when he showed up so his best wasn't that great he lasted not long at all both times he started acting up.
Dorf isn't skilled enough or strong enough or fast enough to beat Kain. Kain easily toys with his opponents and has lived for thousands of years whereas Dorf always gets put down very quickly. There's no comparison in terms of these two characters. Kain prevails and succeeds whereas Dorf is not only the king of evil but also the king of failure.
When weighing in on this we see Bo is neither superstrong nor is Link. You know I am right and are exaggerating feats and denying common sense to make your argument.
The graphics were more realistic than other zelda games but he went a different route for this Zelda because to him the games are so unrealistic it works better.
When you start acknowledging a spade for a spade we can get somewhere Link isn't uber at all. wait until I get to oot in due time. I can't wait to argue over that game. Just you wait.
Dorf gets beat by the mages, easily. Dorf uses someone else to conspire against Hyrule years and years later. Dorf seizes control and then gets killed. He loses quickly both times. They succeed whereas Kain doesn't get killed he stomps his way through nosgoth and in zelda there are two sides where in lok there are more than just two sides.
The mages bested dorf so there goes your plot device item. Nowhere in this game does it state the master sword is the only thing that can stop him he gets beaten before without it anyways. Kain later prevailed against the reaver when he tossed aside the nexus stone whereas Dorf loses again and again.
If he can reform as easily as you say why did the initial sword impalement so tax him and the answer is because he can't just laugh off swords.
I win.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtImpossibly dense iron, which I'll add was stuck to the floor by powerful magnets, and already weighed many tons.
This is what I was refering to.Problem is, they [b]are
iron, its more likely the statues are not a canon example of their weight. Either way they are simply slabs of iron on Links feet, and it makes him heavy enough to stop rolling Dangoro, therefore hes not that heavy at all. I can give that Link can lift several times his own weight which is fair enough but not much more.But anywho, Kain or the EG solo this. Link and Zant at least will be dead in the first few minutes assuming the EG goes to sleep. [/B]
Lol@the EG or Kain soloing anything. Kain especially dies to mooks.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Impossibly dense iron, which I'll add was stuck to the floor by powerful magnets, and already weighed many tons.Lol@the EG or Kain soloing anything. Kain especially dies to mooks.
Nothing proven, Bo could lift the iron on his legs as well. Apprently Bo could lift tonnes as well? lol, daft reaching because your figuires and fanon are not matched by the games actual evidence.
It would be quite simply for either to solo the LoZverse. Let alone TP.
haermm ah, BT, you're a silly kid. And Kain can beat Pyron, right? 🙄
For starters, there's nothing to suggest Bo isn't incredibly strong, where as just wearing the iron boots proves he is. They have to weigh many tons because they're heavy enough to stop a charging Goron without magnets, and pull Argorok out of the sky, in WW they're used to anchor Link and /pull over giant stone obelisks/.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm ah, BT, you're a silly kid. And Kain can beat Pyron, right? 🙄For starters, there's nothing to suggest Bo isn't incredibly strong, where as just wearing the iron boots proves he is. They have to weigh many tons because they're heavy enough to stop a charging Goron without magnets, and pull Argorok out of the sky, in WW they're used to anchor Link and /pull over giant stone obelisks/.
Nice, you cant debate or get your own way so you throw a strop and call out irrelevences? strawman moar!
The iron boots are yet to be canonically proven to be "super dense" like your claiming so cough up this evidence. They have to seems to be a phrase you use a lot, they have to why? because Gorons are proven to be super heavy? no they have not been....
Theres no evidence for your side so quit whining and attempt to find some. The boots are simply lumps on iron on Links feet, or Bos.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtI'm pointing out, that you claiming Kain can beat characters he cannot is not new, you do this all the time. Link/Zant/Ganon/Most of the bosses/some of the mooks would destroy poor little Kain.
Nice, you cant debate or get your own way so you throw a strop and call out irrelevences? strawman moar!The iron boots are yet to be canonically proven to be "super dense" like your claiming so cough up this evidence. They [b]have to
seems to be a phrase you use a lot, they have to why? because Gorons are proven to be super heavy? no they have not been....Theres no evidence for your side so quit whining and attempt to find some. The boots are simply lumps on iron on Links feet, or Bos. [/B]
K, if you're heavy enough that in a tug of war between a large stone obelisk, and your shoes, you win, you're eighter a fatass, or you're wearing the iron boots.
When you can pull a magicly amped dragon out of the sky just by being heavy, you're either a fatass, or you're wearing the iron boots.
When you can stop stone giants with super strength in their tracks, you're clearly doing what, wearing iron boots? Yes. Also, being a stone giant is kinda conducive to being heavy. Being so heavy you can snap thick chains by stepping onto a platform? Proof of heaviness. Gorons are heavy, and so are the boots, stop reaching.
Hell, the knights of Hyrule alone probably rip the vampires apart.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm pointing out, that you claiming Kain can beat characters he cannot is not new, you do this all the time. Link/Zant/Ganon/Most of the bosses/some of the mooks would destroy poor little Kain.K, if you're heavy enough that in a tug of war between a large stone obelisk, and your shoes, you win, you're eighter a fatass, or you're wearing the iron boots.
When you can pull a magicly amped dragon out of the sky just by being heavy, you're either a fatass, or you're wearing the iron boots.
When you can stop stone giants with super strength in their tracks, you're clearly doing what, wearing iron boots? Yes. Also, being a stone giant is kinda conducive to being heavy. Being so heavy you can snap thick chains by stepping onto a platform? Proof of heaviness. Gorons are heavy, and so are the boots, stop reaching.
Hell, the knights of Hyrule alone probably rip the vampires apart.
No thats just your sad and ignorant opinion based on knowing little to nothing about Kain and having knowledge from one game. I claim Kain can beat characters he can actually beat and agree he loses against those he cannot, done it many times.
Then obviously this stone obelisk is not that heavy, we know how heavy iron is per gram and we know Link is not the only one who can wear them.
Or the Dragon is not as strong as you want to belive.
Their not stone giants though, problem is the majority of them seem to be flesh with stone outcroppings on their bodies. Their not solid lumps of stone, never been proven they are.
lol I just called you reaching and apprently now I am? mr "the iron is super dense!" is reaching lol?
Knights of hyrule lol, hopefulyl they have Dante speed and Kratos strength for such a sweeping statement from an ignorant fanboy. Ofc they probably dont have hardly any feats....based on feats the circle of nine would solo the LoZverse, 3 of them can create an region sized and ever expanding sphere that has better feats than the Trueforce.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No thats just your sad and ignorant opinion based on knowing little to nothing about Kain and having knowledge from one game. I claim Kain can beat characters he can actually beat and agree he loses against those he cannot, done it many times.Then obviously this stone obelisk is not that heavy, we know how heavy iron is per gram and we know Link is not the only one who can wear them.
Or the Dragon is not as strong as you want to belive.
Their not stone giants though, problem is the majority of them seem to be flesh with stone outcroppings on their bodies. Their not solid lumps of stone, never been proven they are.
lol I just called you reaching and apprently now I am? mr "the iron is super dense!" is reaching lol?
Knights of hyrule lol, hopefulyl they have Dante speed and Kratos strength for such a sweeping statement from an ignorant fanboy. Ofc they probably dont have hardly any feats....based on feats the circle of nine would solo the LoZverse, 3 of them can create an region sized and ever expanding sphere that has better feats than the Trueforce.
"Giant rox are lighter than iron shoe soles would be IRL! dur"
Uhm, wut?
Yeah, you're reaching, BT. As usual. Also, I'd like to point out your arguments contradict each other. On one hand you're claiming the boots weigh as much as iron of equal size, on the other, you're arguing a large volume of stone weighs so little it'd literally float on air at it's size.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm Like I said, you tend to claim Kain can win when he cannot. Denial is a funny thing."Giant rox are lighter than iron shoe soles would be IRL! dur"
Uhm, wut?
Yeah, you're reaching, BT. As usual. Also, I'd like to point out your arguments contradict each other. On one hand you're claiming the boots weigh as much as iron of equal size, on the other, you're arguing a large volume of stone weighs so little it'd literally float on air at it's size.
Not really, a recent thread shows me saying Kain could not win against Dante and Bayonetta. So....no, your wrong.
Nah, I am not the one whining for "super dense iron" or claiming they have some unkown special enhancement because his figuires that he wants ot be reaching the tonnes of weight to make his little fanloved characters stronger contradict the actual canon, and that is Bo, not a special or magically enhanced entity can lift the boots on his legs and can beat Gorons using them. And your entire argument weighs on the assumption on figuires youve made yourself...what a joke haermm
Gorons are not huge rocks....theres no fact on them being "large volume of stone" either.
You debated he could win against Dante, actually, in a more recent thread, haermm You only conceded both at once would kill him, which is such rediciulous overkill it's not even worth stating you admitted Kain would lose. You're well known for your claims about Kain, however.
I've provided several instances of the boots proving their a lot heavier than their size would allow. 🙂 Hell, maybe they have Neutronium in their soles somewhere, too.
The boots are heavier than: Solid metal statues, Gorons, large stone obelisks, ect.
Gorons are infact super strong living rocks, the weights you suggest would infact, make anything their size float on air. haermm
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You debated he could win against Dante, actually, in a more recent thread, haermm You only conceded both at once would kill him, which is such rediciulous overkill it's not even worth stating you admitted Kain would lose. You're well known for your claims about Kain, however.I've provided several instances of the boots proving their a lot heavier than their size would allow. 🙂 Hell, maybe they have Neutronium in their soles somewhere, too.
The boots are heavier than: Solid metal statues, Gorons, large stone obelisks, ect.
Gorons are infact super strong living rocks, the weights [b]you
suggest would infact, make anything their size float on air. haermm [/B]
Dante alone yeah, because I know both characters. I know all 3 characters factually, you dont so I dont think your one to claim anything is overkill. I am well known to be attacked by fanboys who dont like me dismantelling their fanon.
No, youve provided instances where based on your opinions without evidence you think they are heavier than their size would allow. These are simply your baseless opinions, their not as important as the games opinion which does not mension anything about them being "magically super dense" or having any other metal in them.
Then those things are not as heavy as you belive, because we know for a fact what these shoes are made of. On the other hand, we dont know all the physical element of Gorons or "solid" (how do you even know this?) metal statues.
lol super strong, not strong enough to lift up a young man because hes got boots of iron on thats for sure. Not strong enough to beat a man in a wrestling match like Bo....their not even that large, what are you talking about with this "float in the air" BS, explain this?