LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Started by quanchi11285 pages

Originally posted by The Scenario
Kratos is struggling to lift a door that Link opens easily. So, no, no big difference. Further, you have once again claimed that Link is weak just because he is weak. Further still, you don't seem to understand either what the word "feat" means, what the word "portray" means, or possibly both. Feats = portrayal.

Congratulations on ignoring all evidence and simply restating the same argument you used last time. You're taking things out of context and calling them unimpressive. You once again ignore crucial facts in favour of simply using your preconceived opinions without even revising them to suit the argument.

I will explain it again, and maybe add even more context. At that point in time, Ganondorf was still part of a band of theives, and relatively inexperienced with magic. The sages even said he was blinded by ambition and captured. What you don't seem to realize is that this moment is a flashback. It happened a long freaking time ago. At that point in time Ganondorf was much weaker and less skilled. He is then stabbed through the heart and killed, before being brought back by the Triforce of Power, which he did not even have before that point.

Now, I want you to put yourself in Ganondorf's place here. You think you're dead, when suddenly you find that you're alive again. You have a sword in your heart, which freaking hurts. Now remember that you've never weilded much magic before, and then a divine artifact full of strength and magic just falls in your lap. Do you know how to use it? No, it just appeared there a second ago. Are you still confused as to why you're still alive despite a sword in your chest? You bet you are. You're disoriented and confused, and lash out blindly at the first thing you see, which happens to be the Sage of Water. After completely disintegrating his with a mere touch, you remember that you still have a sword in your chest. As you pull it out (this still hurts, by the way), the Sages activate that mirror you never knew about and then suddenly you're disintegrating.

Bottom line: [b]GANONDORF WAS NOT AT FULL POWER THERE. STOP PRETENDING HE WAS.

Bo does not match Link. You're now claiming that Bo was not at his best, while ignoring the fact that Ganondorf was not at his best. Nice. Further, Bo had no flashback, we don't even know when he did it or what shape he was in. You are simply assuming things that are not shown. I'm sure in your mind youre picturing Bo as being a lean strong man bulging with muscle when he wrestled the Goron, but no, that is not shown, so you can't claim out of shape when we don't know Bo's original shape.

You're also ignoring your own claim, that skill and training determine what someone can do. Bo was much more skilled, since he taught Link, right? Haven't you been saying that wasn't Link's strength that let him win against the Gorons, but his skill? Yet now that doesn't seem to apply to Bo, now that it's disadvantageous to you. That also ignores the fact that Link defeated the Goron Cheif, the greatest wrestler of them all. Does that mean Link suddenly became an absolute master despite learning how only an hour before? See, I think it was his strength.

See above for skill. Now, why are you saying Link can't throw a Goron when they're not rolling? Is it because of he simply didn't throw anyone during the wrestling match, despite that being the only outlier among tons of other throws? But Quanchi, surely you realize that Link wasn't taught how to throw Gorons while wrestling, and you say Link can't do anything he wasn't taught how to do. That's a little contraictory, isn't it?

And isn't it also an example of how you take one low feat and just run with it, despite the availability of better feats? Link throws at least 20 Gorons, but the one time he doesn't throw one means he suddenly can't anymore? But that's clearly contradictory! Surely you realize that 20 throws trump 1 not-throw, correct?

Terrible shape? I just went over this. You still don't know what shape Bo was in, do you? If you do, evidence would be nice, don't you agree? And are you ignoring things again? Oh yes, the Goron Cheif being a better wrestler than all of the other Gorons. I say again that Bo defeated a random Goron, but Link defeated a master.

But Quanchi, how else are we to determine what these characters are capable of? Do you have evidence that magic was in use during this instance? You seem to have less than I do, seeing as you have to claim that reality doesn't apply.

Oh, come now, you know better than that! See, I had outlined this list of things that the boss does that were inferior to Link, and you just go right back to spouting that Link is weak without even once addressing the points I made. That isn't very nice!

Awww man, really? That's too bad that you didn't want to read my post. I made some pretty good points there, I thooght. Now I have to do it again, huh? But I already did! Oh well, maybe somebody else will read it.

What first battle are you talking about, Quanchi? I mean, I was just saying that there was that time when an inexperienced Ganondorf got executed and BFR'd by the Sages, but I didn't think that was a battle since Ganondorf wasn't at full power.

Hey, hey! Did you read my post there? I thought it was good one. You know, all that stuff about Ganondorf reforming his body and reviving and stuff, at least until that Master sword messed up that power. I mean really, why bother with the reviving and body reforming when your opponent has a sword that cancels it out? Yeah, that Master Sword is a toughie, alright. I guess it's a good thing Kain doesn't have it, huh? But its not like even the Master Sword worked instantly, though. I mean, look at those boss fights! He had to weakened a ton to even get to that point, too. Really, with stuff like that and no Master Sword, how in the world could Kain hope to win?

Yeah, you're right! That only works when Ganondorf's already near defeat! That's a pretty cool thing to notice. Yeah, look at how Ganondorf was already captured and weak that first time, and then had four boss fights just to get him like that for the second time! It looks like Kain's got his work cut out for him, huh?

Oooooh! Isn't that cool! It's just like with Ganondorf, isn't it? They had that really long battle and then one guy won with this special sword that had a special effect! Of course, that second part didn't happen except for Ganondorf always coming back. But he can't touch the Master Sword, y'know.

But I gave you the page! Didn't you read it? That's kind of thing always makes me a little crazy...you haven't noticed anything like that, have you?

Oh, the madness, when will it end? Does it end? It's just a little crazy, huh, Quanchi? Just crazy. [/B]

Kratos lifts bigger doors than Link. That's a huge difference and I don't see Link budging the door since he isn't anywhere near as strong as Kratos but I do see Kratos easily wielding the ball and chain since he's like 30 times stronger.

It never said he was weaker and less skilled. he was overconfident and caught off guard just like he was at the end of the game. A true moron is someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes ala Ganondorf. Even you claim he's the same guy yet he is always defeated by the hero of destiny over and over again. Dorf's born to fail.

I would never have underestimated my opponents like he had so I wouldn't be in that situation. He was clearly outclassed even though he had access to this power which doesn't make this power seem impressive to me, anyways.

He was at full power at the end of the game and let's face it we didn't see any difference except this time the power failed him.

Bo is a matchup for Link and through trial and error or whatever depending on the skill of the player you best Bo once so it's not canon how quickly he defeats Bo or how many times he gets knocked out of the ring before he does so. What is canon is both are peers in terms of sumo and both are around the same strength and you must win by skill not by power.

Yes, that's why because he can't throw any gorons outside a wrestling match and when he wrestles he can barely shove them so quit acting like he could throw them because if he could he could easily shove them at will but since he can't I am right once again.

Bo by the looks of things and by the manner in which he ran from Link as a wolf didn't seem to be in great shape at all. Any reason why you feel he was a physical specimen other than using this as evidence for Link's uberness yet again?

I just quoted one of the game's creators who stated these games aren't even close to being realistic so just accept what he has to say and move on.

Link can't handle the weapon as easily as the boss he needs both arms to wield it which proves he's physically weaker.

Dorf gets owned in combat the next time he shows up against Link. Both times he starts acting up he gets slammed back down.

Kain loses to the sarafan lord because of the nexus stone then comes back and wipes him off the map.

Please don't justify anything due to how many times you have to fight the boss, lol.

This is a forum matchup where he doesn't need the master sword to kill him so he doesn't need it and anyways with plot devices in you can't kill someone who wields the reaver.

I have and will continue to respond to you I am not going back to respond to something on page 31 you hid with a response to bt.

Look at the enemies in lok, they are bigger, badder, and far more vicious. Kain's far craftier than anyone in loz.

You think Kratos is only thirty times stronger than Link?

You failed to capitolise, even a 30th of Kratos' strength is strong enough to crush anythign in LoK to dust.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Or he's saying Zelda doesn't fit in with the super realistic games like Modern Warfare 2, or Assassin's Creed which are based in the real world on real events or with realistic places/people. Makes sense, because Hyrule doesn't exist. You did know that, right Quan?
It's not realistic and isn't designed to make sense ala the boots aiding him stop rolling gorons.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Actually it is saying that the graphics are not as realistic as in TP.

😐

Then he goes on to say the games aren't realistic anyways at all compared to other games. The game has magical fairies increasing your health and you think every feat makes perfect sense in the real world. I mean come on.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You think Kratos is only thirty times stronger than Link?
I think he's more so but I felt saying 30 times more was more than enough to prove my point. I guess you have your calculator out ready to figure out something more appropriate.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You failed to capitolise, even a 30th of Kratos' strength is strong enough to crush anythign in LoK to dust.
He isn't portrayed as such. He's strong yes but he doesn't just rip inferior opponents apart anywhere near as easily as you claim. Kain could definitely take him on.

Lol, there's that portrayed word again.

Well, at least you stick to your guns. I could admire that if you weren't out of ammo.

link-rape

Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't portrayed as such. He's strong yes but he doesn't just rip inferior opponents apart anywhere near as easily as you claim. Kain could definitely take him on.
If you actually believe this you are beyond help. Enemies in Zelda, even the mooks, would raep Kain. Moblins are o strong they can cause powerful, ground shaking shockwaves just by striking the ground.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lol, there's that portrayed word again.

Well, at least you stick to your guns. I could admire that if you weren't out of ammo.

link-rape

haermm Flawless victory!?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lol, there's that portrayed word again.

Well, at least you stick to your guns. I could admire that if you weren't out of ammo.

link-rape

I'm not out of ammo I even used a creator's recent interview to back me here.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If you actually believe this you are beyond help. Enemies in Zelda, even the mooks, would raep Kain. Moblins are o strong they can cause powerful, ground shaking shockwaves just by striking the ground.
So now moblins are more powerful than Kain even though three arrow shots kills em, right? Have you seen the demons Kain takes down in lok or the enemies he takes on. Play bo1 for instance the battles and the abilities he demonstrates in that game would make your head spin.

In defiance he starts taking demons from the hylden dimension down in one shot from the soulreaver.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's not realistic and isn't designed to make sense ala the boots aiding him stop rolling gorons.

Then he goes on to say the games aren't realistic anyways at all compared to other games. The game has magical fairies increasing your health and you think every feat makes perfect sense in the real world. I mean come on.

1. Only... That makes PERFECT. SENSE. A heavier object in motion will move the lighter one, which is why Link had to make himself heavier with the boots. PHYSICS.

2. In terms of the world? No, fairies and shit. But Link has performed superhuman feats throughout the games. Which I guess is not "realistic" considering nothing resembling a human would be capable of such feats.

You used something that does not actually support you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm not out of ammo I even used a creator's recent interview to back me here.

So now moblins are more powerful than Kain even though three arrow shots kills em, right? Have you seen the demons Kain takes down in lok or the enemies he takes on. Play bo1 for instance the battles and the abilities he demonstrates in that game would make your head spin.

In defiance he starts taking demons from the hylden dimension down in one shot from the soulreaver.

Ooooh, gameplay mechanics.

Ammunition is for the weak, amirite? haermm Your "article" actually harms your argument more than anything. Zomg, impossible shit happens in video games!?

"demons" a title. Can they shake the ground just by hitting it like a Moblin? No? Do they have feats? No? awshit, eh?

Moblins are demons, actually.

Created by Ganon, they are essentially Oni, unless I am forgetting something that explains their origin.

Well, point is, a title means dick without a feat to back it. You're probably right on their origin.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Only... That makes PERFECT. SENSE. A heavier object in motion will move the lighter one, which is why Link had to make himself heavier with the boots. PHYSICS.

2. In terms of the world? No, fairies and shit. But Link has performed superhuman feats throughout the games. Which I guess is not "realistic" considering nothing resembling a human would be capable of such feats.

1.Except in real life you get knocked over in your boots.

2.He isn't portrayed as strong in the games. Link needs gear to perform the heavy lifting and in tp anyways Bo also was good enough to best a goron with the boots.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You used something that does not actually support you.
It supports me as he backed up exactly what I have been saying.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ooooh, gameplay mechanics.

Ammunition is for the weak, amirite? haermm Your "article" actually harms your argument more than anything. Zomg, impossible shit happens in video games!?

"demons" a title. Can they shake the ground just by hitting it like a Moblin? No? Do they have feats? No? awshit, eh?

They don't get killed by three arrows either. They need special weapons and not any old archer can kill them. To say Moblins are badder than the demons in lok defiance is truly frightening. I mean these enemies can be harmed by what slingshots and they are badasses?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Moblins are demons, actually.

Created by Ganon, they are essentially Oni, unless I am forgetting something that explains their origin.

Demons killed by three arrow shots which doesn't make them impressive at all.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, point is, a title means dick without a feat to back it. You're probably right on their origin.
They are called demons I wasn't saying they win because they are demons. Look at the size of them and how powerful they are and look at moblins. I know who I'd rather get stuck in a dark room with that's for sure and it isn't hylden demons.

Lawl,
1. Gameplay mechanics are not an argument.
2. An arrow shot by Link would pack incredible force. 😐

Your argument is not only invalid, it sucks.

Edit: Link could easily one shot Hylden, and "looks" and a title mean shit, when Moblins actually show strength.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Except in real life you get knocked over in your boots.

2.He isn't portrayed as strong in the games. Link needs gear to perform the heavy lifting and in tp anyways Bo also was good enough to best a goron with the boots.

1. Not if you are strong enough to stop it, which Link clearly is, but you lack the basic human intelligence to work that out.

2. Except when he performs physical feats that a human could not do. Bo is obviously very strong then.

You're not worth mine or anyone on this board's time. Leave.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kratos lifts bigger doors than Link. That's a huge difference and I don't see Link budging the door since he isn't anywhere near as strong as Kratos but I do see Kratos easily wielding the ball and chain since he's like 30 times stronger.

And there we have it! Link is only 30 times away from Kratos in strength. That right there puts him miles above Kain.

YouTube video

0:21, look at that door, man. Show me the doors Kratos opens.


It never said he was weaker and less skilled. he was overconfident and caught off guard just like he was at the end of the game. A true moron is someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes ala Ganondorf. Even you claim he's the same guy yet he is always defeated by the hero of destiny over and over again. Dorf's born to fail.

Wow, I can't beleive you just said that with a straight face. Have you played more games than Twilight Princess? Wind Waker for instance features Ganondorf eliminating everything that caused him to lose in the past, thereby correcting his mistakes. He only lost there because of a Deus Ex Machina.

You're a fool if you honestly think this.


I would never have underestimated my opponents like he had so I wouldn't be in that situation. He was clearly outclassed even though he had access to this power which doesn't make this power seem impressive to me, anyways.

You can't see it can you? I have repeatedly pointed out every reason you have just failed, and then you repeat that same failing again.


He was at full power at the end of the game and let's face it we didn't see any difference except this time the power failed him.

You didn't see any difference? I literally just went over the four boss battles twice, and you've ignored me again. Either actually address my points, or get out.


Bo is a matchup for Link and through trial and error or whatever depending on the skill of the player you best Bo once so it's not canon how quickly he defeats Bo or how many times he gets knocked out of the ring before he does so. What is canon is both are peers in terms of sumo and both are around the same strength and you must win by skill not by power.

Proof of that claim? If it was skill, why did Bo, the master, lose? See, you're just ignoring everything I say and repeating the same points again and again.


Yes, that's why because he can't throw any gorons outside a wrestling match and when he wrestles he can barely shove them so quit acting like he could throw them because if he could he could easily shove them at will but since he can't I am right once again.

Oh my god you're actually serious. This just makes it funnier to me how set in stone you are, utterly convinced you can't be wrong. 20 throws vs. 1 not-throw, and you actually chose the not throw as canon? There you have it, Quanchi, you are now officially reaching for ways Link loses despite the evidence staring you in the face..


Bo by the looks of things and by the manner in which he ran from Link as a wolf didn't seem to be in great shape at all. Any reason why you feel he was a physical specimen other than using this as evidence for Link's uberness yet again?

I'm not, just pointing out your sheer lack of evidence for any claim you make. Bo wrestles, he doesn't fight. Do you have evidence that he would not be afraid if wolf Link even if he were in your as yet unproven shape?


I just quoted one of the game's creators who stated these games aren't even close to being realistic so just accept what he has to say and move on.

Artstyle, man. Skyward Sword isn't brown. Besides, you quoted him saying the Twilight Princess was too realistic. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.


Link can't handle the weapon as easily as the boss he needs both arms to wield it which proves he's physically weaker.

There was a list of reasons this is not true. You have once again ignored it and repeated the same thing you said last time.


Dorf gets owned in combat the next time he shows up against Link. Both times he starts acting up he gets slammed back down.

Link is uber, what do you expect?


Kain loses to the sarafan lord because of the nexus stone then comes back and wipes him off the map.

You're admitting Kain was weaker there? See, if I was you, I would be claiming that since Kain was defeated like that once, it automatically invalidates any wins afterward.


Please don't justify anything due to how many times you have to fight the boss, lol.

Why, because you can't find a counter to it? Face it, man, the developers intended for Ganondorf to just keep getting back up. That's how he's portrayed.


This is a forum matchup where he doesn't need the master sword to kill him so he doesn't need it and anyways with plot devices in you can't kill someone who wields the reaver.

You're forgetting that Ganondorf can reform from nothing after his body is destroyed. You basically admitted that Ganondorf won since you had to nerf him. That reaver thing is a no limits fallacy by the way.


I have and will continue to respond to you I am not going back to respond to something on page 31 you hid with a response to bt.

I just pointed out that at that point, I was not the one who gave up and left.


Look at the enemies in lok, they are bigger, badder, and far more vicious. Kain's far craftier than anyone in loz.

Circular logic and false premise. You need to stop doing that.