LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is when you summarize an opponent's point but change a key detail so that you can refute it, except you didn't actually refute the original point. That's not what I'm doing.

I'm claiming that Twili have a weakness to sunlight just like vampires did. I never said that Twili are weak to all light, which is what you are strawmanning. I'm then arguing that because Midna has a resistence to sunlight, that she is similar to an evolved vampire. Then I argue that because the life force of the gods affects her through her resistance, it would also affect an evolved vampire. By stronger than sunlight, I mean it pierces the resistance of a being with resistance to sunlight.

Why not? Kain is both a being of darkness and quite evil. Actually, regardless of the fact that Kain would be affected, he still would be affected because of his alignment. So yeah, lose-lose for Kain.

Nah, they sealed away [ccolor=red]great magic[/color], which took the form of the Fused Shadows. Since the Dark Interlopers where eventually banished to the Twilight Realm and became the Twili, this was before twilight existed as it does now. It was dark magic before it became associated with twilight.

And, as it turns out, Ganondorf corrupted the Twilight Realm.
YouTube video

0:47, "Bathed in that light, all people were pure and gentle...
But things changed once that foul power pervaded the world."

It seems that when the Sages sent Ganondorf to the Twilight Realm, it became corrupted under his influence.

It's blast of air being shoved away by TK, otherwise it wouldn't be visible as the shockwave. But regardless, Kain can't do that, either.

No, his magical light is designed not to harm vampires, and when was Kain not burned by a torch? But you're wrong there, as mist tends to get burned off by sunlight as the water that forms it evaporates. It doesn't usually last past mid day.

Ha, nice try. That fading thing of Kain's takes more than half a second, but maybe less than one. Zant's is quicker, as is his movement speed. But really, are you trying that argue that Zant won't be able to do what he's already been shown doing? In, game, Zant often teleports behind Link, once he draws his swords.

YouTube video

8:44 and onwards. Zant is tactical, if insane.

Zant covers more distance in a similar time, so he's slightly quicker than Kain is. I don't even know what you're talking about with the mist thing.

Oh, wait, so lifting Dangoro in gameplay makes in unusable? Well, I guess that just invalidates all of Raziel's strength, and the dimsensional teleport by your own argument. Toonforce is still not a valid argument. As for Ganondorf, we know he was inside the castle when it exploded, and there's not much evidence suggesting he was intangible at all, but if he is, no one in LoK could hit him.

Uh huh. K', I guess I'll just let Moo handle himself, he's good enough to do so.

Kain is not faster than anyone in Hyrule can react. He'll be vulnerable to a gale boomerang, light spirit, or TK blast like that anyway.

Ive refuted all your points so many times, but the problem is your making up BS half the time without evidence. In this case your assuming that just because Vampires have evolved past their weakness to sunlight, and Midna has resistance to sunlight (not sure ive seen other twili burn up in sunlight but w/e) that their similiar and will both be harmed by light spirits. Problem is Lok vampires are only harmed by Sunlight, until youve proven Light spirits can harm Vampires the same way vampiric weakness to sunlight does (only ofc to higher level) then your point drops dead. Who says the resistance even attempts to resist the light spirits powers if their not even using sunlight?

All ouve shown me is that twili, like the twilight the light spirits can push aside can also be affected by light spirits.

No hes not, not at all. Hes not evil.

Light spirits only sealed over an unkown time and together one portion of magic and you think this is usable agains loK? in any useful area? lol....so Raziel casts a fireball and it takes all 4 of them to stop it, and over na unkown amount of time seal it into an object...lol, in the meantime vastly powerful sorcerors beyond light spirits wipe out Hyrule.

Shoving TK, e.g. not grabbing it like Midna would have to.

When did I say only his magical light? and its not "designed" not to harm vampires, it just does not because sunlight is the vampiric weakness, not the light given off my fire, light torches, glyph energy etc. Your reaching in the hope that a weakness of the twili against light sprits will work against beings completly diverse and whos weakness "used to be" specifically sunlight.

It doesnt get "burned off", it simply becomes more mist until all its vapour is gone. Point is, Kains not going to be anywhere long enough in the form of mist for the weather process to finally evapourate him, not that it could, he excists in sunlight and mist in the series.

Watching the gameplay of that Zant video, it seems hit and miss where he teleports. Rarely behind, more slightly to the left or right.

Toonforce has always been an excellent argument, you claiming it invalid because it unravels the math you want to use in an area where physics is ignored does not help you. Do we? how do we know that when not long after he seems to have made his way up the hill as his usual Ganondorf form holding the Twilight helmet in hand?

Based on feats, yes he is. And all those things take more time than it does Kain to go from flesh to mist.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It is physically impossible for Dangoro to be 600 pounds or less. There are humans about 4 feet shorter than him and much less muscled that weigh that.

I've seen his fastest, which is what you wank to claim this .2 reaction time bullshit. Ganon can beat that without having to lift a finger, because he doesn't have to lift a finger at all. Ganon and Midna should both be able to hold him just fine without him escaping. The idea that intangibility will still allow him to escape is absurd. Also, lol at Midna having stronger TK than Ganon.

Actually they don't. With your usual daft logic, you will harp on minor details and cling to them, and when these fail in your eyes, it doesn't even matter when they fail in the face of real logic, you'll just claim toonforce.

Toonforce is not even a point. It's just stupid. But out of curiosity, where is this evidence?

Yeah. That little guy is nonsense, and lifting something that would break his bones is part of the feat. You've harped on this for the past year or so as well. You see that? You're claiming it's toonforce because he wouldn't be able to have the strength of body to do it. It's pretty absurd, claiming that doing it actually invalidates it as a feat. I've seen this cracking the ground thing as well, but has anyone ever proven it?

Its also physically impossible for Dangoro to bounce off lava but hey, this is LoZ were talking about! 😆

Ok, to begin you need evidence for this bucko. Show me Ganon doing something quickly. You seem to have ignored evidence and argument and just claimed they can agian.... 🙄

This looks like a "no you!" argument....I expected it from you ofc

Youve missed the last 70 pages of me shoving it down my oppositions (you included?) throat? I could ofc simply counter this with ,"exactly, what evidence!" when refering to your side of the argument.

Proven what? nobodies proven that math in LoZ makes sense at all, the tonnes of evidence such as those I just mentioend as to why its impossible in the GG scene and many others solidifies the truth that your tlaking BS. Even if you wanted to reach/assume link already naturally had tonnes of pSI resistance and used wooden/metal shields for lulz throughout his series you would still have to take into account why the weight does not fall over as gravity demands or why he does not sink into the mud beneath his feet (or is the mud able to withstand thousands of tonnes of force as well? damn hyrulian mud is strongz!).

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's amazing, isn't it? Watching him try to wriggle his way through everything you say as you pile more and more on top of him. Even if there isn't a hole, he pretends there is one.

Edit: Though, if you want to reply to what he says to me, Scenario, go for it. Who cares if he doesn't want to repeat himself. That's pretty much what anybody who talks with him does.

😆 hes piling stuff sure, but like you and most of my opposition its dried cardboard and flimsy plastic bags as all of you wonder how your going to crawl from the blocks of steel your peeking through to attempt to reach through.

So much irony coming from someone who spams rubbish despite it being refuted, constantly forcing the opposition to say the same rubbish.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its also physically impossible for Dangoro to bounce off lava but hey, this is LoZ were talking about! 😆

Ok, to begin you need evidence for this bucko. Show me Ganon doing something quickly. You seem to have ignored evidence and argument and just claimed they can agian.... 🙄

This looks like a "no you!" argument....I expected it from you ofc

Youve missed the last 70 pages of me shoving it down my oppositions (you included?) throat? I could ofc simply counter this with ,"exactly, what evidence!" when refering to your side of the argument.

Proven what? nobodies proven that math in LoZ makes sense at all, the tonnes of evidence such as those I just mentioend as to why its impossible in the GG scene and many others solidifies the truth that your tlaking BS. Even if you wanted to reach/assume link already naturally had tonnes of pSI resistance and used wooden/metal shields for lulz throughout his series you would still have to take into account why the weight does not fall over as gravity demands or why he does not sink into the mud beneath his feet (or is the mud able to withstand thousands of tonnes of force as well? damn hyrulian mud is strongz!).

So much irony coming from someone who spams rubbish despite it being refuted, constantly forcing the opposition to say the same rubbish.

The amazing part is I saw this response coming. So I'll do what I and many others have had to do with you, repeat myself. One instance of toonforce cannot negate multiple other instances of realistic physics. Nor can it simply invalidate every feat in the series/game like you want it to.

TKing without a gesture, or without moving at all, for that matter. TK has to be activated somehow, correct? Since we don't see the body move at all, it is reasonable to assume it was activated with thought. Thought > thought, movement, technique, movement.

Kinda like what you just gave me as a response?

The same things Scenario has been shoving down your throat for the last 70 pages is my evidence. How you think the 70 pages is your evidence I will never comprehend, but whatever. BT, you've seen just about everything there is to see in the LoZ games we've argued with. The only way you could see whatever is left is to actually play the game.

Tons of evidence? Mentioning that the floor should have cracked is tons of evidence now? I don't know what the hell Scenario is doing then. All the information he's thrown at you with your scale would equate to...an internet. Holy shit. Scenario has thrown an internet at you.

Hmm...last time the rock that Link was standing on should have cracked. But now all of a sudden it's mud that he should have sunk into? A sudden change of standpoint. Could this mean that you don't have any idea what you're talking about?! GASP!

I haven't looked at the images for a long time. I don't even remember what it looks like. But if it's rock, cool. Let's see some proof it should have cracked, especially since the pillar was already sitting on it with no cracks created. I wonder what this means?

On the other hand, if it was just regular dirt, well, it's pretty hard to crack something that isn't totally solid in the first place.

Refute something, BT. Believe it or not, I am not totally incapable of admitting when I'm wrong. I've had bad moments when I was stupid about it, sure, but this is not one of those times. And save the comment on this that you will believe is clever.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The amazing part is I saw this response coming. So I'll do what I and many others have had to do with you, repeat myself. One instance of toonforce cannot negate multiple other instances of realistic physics. Nor can it simply invalidate every feat in the series/game like you want it to.

TKing without a gesture, or without moving at all, for that matter. TK has to be activated somehow, correct? Since we don't see the body move at all, it is reasonable to assume it was activated with thought. Thought > thought, movement, technique, movement.

Kinda like what you just gave me as a response?

The same things Scenario has been shoving down your throat for the last 70 pages is my evidence. How you think the 70 pages is your evidence I will never comprehend, but whatever. BT, you've seen just about everything there is to see in the LoZ games we've argued with. The only way you could see whatever is left is to actually play the game.

Tons of evidence? Mentioning that the floor should have cracked is tons of evidence now? I don't know what the hell Scenario is doing then. All the information he's thrown at you with your scale would equate to...an internet. Holy shit. Scenario has thrown an internet at you.

Hmm...last time the rock that Link was standing on should have cracked. But now all of a sudden it's mud that he should have sunk into? A sudden change of standpoint. Could this mean that you don't have any idea what you're talking about?! GASP!

I haven't looked at the images for a long time. I don't even remember what it looks like. But if it's rock, cool. Let's see some proof it should have cracked, especially since the pillar was already sitting on it with no cracks created. I wonder what this means?

On the other hand, if it was just regular dirt, well, it's pretty hard to crack something that isn't totally solid in the first place.

Refute something, BT. Believe it or not, I am not totally incapable of admitting when I'm wrong. I've had bad moments when I was stupid about it, sure, but this is not one of those times. And save the comment on this that you will believe is clever.

Whats not so amazing is that I see all of your responses, mainly because their usually the same thing over and over etc. Yes it can, for one thing it shows the developers have actually chosen to use non realistic physics, its pretty important and major but I digree, sure maybe claiming the whole series is unrealistic is too far but tbh I think theres more than a few instances where it happens.

Thats not speed, thats not reaction times. No because thought, also needs reaction to begin with which can be slower than movement it precedes in some cases.

You cant take someone elses evidence on your own side, you shouldjust say it apprently helps your argument (not that you have a defined one), nor can you take my argument and words and hope it makes you look clever, it wont work. I have seen it all, I have seen it all and seen the facts behind the assumptions and guesswork that you like to wave around.

Thats evidence, Link having difficulty lifting it slowly off the ground is evidence, it not falling over is evidence, him being able to throw it taking into account previous evidence without hardly moving his arms at all is evidence. Thats just for that single piece of toonforce, now take into account similiar evidence is provided for all of your lowly arguments and there is "tonnes". Scenario has little real evidence, he has some videos sure but its usually not so useful at least to him, for example claiming Zants teleport is faster than Kains, then giving bias counting times and showing only Zant teleporting in, not out. Theres bits and piecies of evidence I admit but not so useful.

Not a change of standpoint is it, I made two claims, either is mud, or its rock both should have cracked or sunk. hell infact, even if its stone, 1000 tonnes going through Links tiny body and apprently onto the ground should allow Link to sink into the stone itself. Its too heavy lol. This means that LoZ physics is BS as well as fanon math, 1000 tonnes does not just sit on mud only to be lifted up and still have no effect on the environment.

Everyones refuted something, especially me. Claiming I have not is pointless so you can "save that" if you want me to save clever comments 😉

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats not so amazing is that I see all of your responses, mainly because their usually the same thing over and over etc. Yes it can, for one thing it shows the developers have actually chosen to use non realistic physics, its pretty important and major but I digree, sure maybe claiming the whole series is unrealistic is too far but tbh I think theres more than a few instances where it happens.

Indeed, many are the same thing over and over again. And there is a very good reason for that. You need repetition to get things into your head. How much repetition has not yet been discovered, we're still conducting the tests.

Actually all it says is that for one instance, humor was applied. There are several reasons beyond that. Dangoro cannot die, because if he does, Link becomes stranded on that platform. The Gorons are also not Link's enemies, so he would not want to kill Dangoro.

When there are more, and much more blatant suggestions of realistic physics throughout most of the game, one instance of comedy is negligible.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not speed, thats not reaction times. No because thought, also needs reaction to begin with which can be slower than movement it precedes in some cases.

Which is still pretty irrelevant anyway, since Kain has to react, and move. Advantage, Zelda.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You cant take someone elses evidence on your own side, you shouldjust say it apprently helps your argument (not that you have a defined one), nor can you take my argument and words and hope it makes you look clever, it wont work. I have seen it all, I have seen it all and seen the facts behind the assumptions and guesswork that you like to wave around.

Nah I'm not going to claim Scenario's evidence like I found the junk. Everyone can see who's been throwing the figurative internet at you. It does however help, and has proven for a very long time now, my conclusion. LoZ wins.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats evidence, Link having difficulty lifting it slowly off the ground is evidence, it not falling over is evidence, him being able to throw it taking into account previous evidence without hardly moving his arms at all is evidence. Thats just for that single piece of toonforce, now take into account similiar evidence is provided for all of your lowly arguments and there is "tonnes". Scenario has little real evidence, he has some videos sure but its usually not so useful at least to him, for example claiming Zants teleport is faster than Kains, then giving bias counting times and showing only Zant teleporting in, not out. Theres bits and piecies of evidence I admit but not so useful.

Having difficulty makes it less impressive, I can agree. But it does not invalidate it like you want it to. If you can bench press a car, you can still bench press a car whether you had a hard time doing it or an easy time with it.

It not falling over. Really? God forbid it not fall over, because it needs to. I mean, Link's objective is to lift it and move the pillar, so the developers are totally going to program in the pillar falling over first. This waste of programming space and time must prove that it's all toonforce. That's just totally pointless to put in the game. It's like calling Sonic's running toonforce because at some point, over the years, he would trip (SAAAAAAAAAKURAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIII).

Scenario is bias now? Wow, that's about as flawless as every other argument you've made.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not a change of standpoint is it, I made two claims, either is mud, or its rock both should have cracked or sunk. hell infact, even if its stone, 1000 tonnes going through Links tiny body and apprently onto the ground should allow Link to sink into the stone itself. Its too heavy lol. This means that LoZ physics is BS as well as fanon math, 1000 tonnes does not just sit on mud only to be lifted up and still have no effect on the environment.

Or it's regular dirt.

Prove it'd crack it if it were rock. We also have no proof that it could be mud, because it has not rained in that area. As far as I remember, it's still, and about all you can hear is some birds.

I see. So where, out of curiosity, is the line on what amount of weight would allow one to sink into stone or crack the ground when lifted?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Everyones refuted something, especially me. Claiming I have not is pointless so you can "save that" if you want me to save clever comments 😉

Except you didn't save anything, so neither shall I.

You've refuted nothing.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Indeed, many are the same thing over and over again. And there is a very good reason for that. You need repetition to get things into your head. How much repetition has not yet been discovered, we're still conducting the tests.

Actually all it says is that for one instance, humor was applied. There are several reasons beyond that. Dangoro cannot die, because if he does, Link becomes stranded on that platform. The Gorons are also not Link's enemies, so he would not want to kill Dangoro.

When there are more, and much more blatant suggestions of realistic physics throughout most of the game, one instance of comedy is negligible.

Which is still pretty irrelevant anyway, since Kain has to react, and move. Advantage, Zelda.

Nah I'm not going to claim Scenario's evidence like I found the junk. Everyone can see who's been throwing the figurative internet at you. It does however help, and has proven for a very long time now, my conclusion. LoZ wins.

Having difficulty makes it less impressive, I can agree. But it does not invalidate it like you want it to. If you can bench press a car, you can still bench press a car whether you had a hard time doing it or an easy time with it.

It not falling over. Really? God forbid it not fall over, because it needs to. I mean, Link's objective is to lift it and move the pillar, so the developers are totally going to program in the pillar falling over first. This waste of programming space and time must prove that it's all toonforce. That's just totally pointless to put in the game. It's like calling Sonic's running toonforce because at some point, over the years, he would trip (SAAAAAAAAAKURAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIII).

Scenario is bias now? Wow, that's about as flawless as every other argument you've made.

Or it's regular dirt.

Prove it'd crack it if it were rock. We also have no proof that it could be mud, because it has not rained in that area. As far as I remember, it's still, and about all you can hear is some birds.

I see. So where, out of curiosity, is the line on what amount of weight would allow one to sink into stone or crack the ground when lifted?

Except you didn't save anything, so neither shall I.

You've refuted nothing.

The same can be said it seems for anyone I have to ram stuff down all the time, ofc saying its just me is selfish. I have seen Sin and Bloodrain have to say the same things over and over, show evidence only for you to ignore, "sigh", what a waste of time.

This one instance wipes out that areas "liklihood" of anything realistic. Also point out another area wehre theres apprently "realistic" physics. And its not negligible because its major, the developers have chosen to do it as a team, this is not a character behaviour that can be argued within the games universe, its a graphical choice by the developers.

Kain has to react/move to kill, they have to react/focus TK to attempt to stop Kain who can escape it and kill with just react/move, the first part hes done before they have Tked, all he has to do is move. Chances are he may do it before they can Tk.

LoZ wins because your opposition has finally done what my team have been doing for years? 😆 actually posting videos like I have for a lon time does not obviously give automatic win.

Having difficulty doing it makes it impossible, because if you used some math (even screampastes) you will find that the joules Link has difficulty bringing to bear on lifting it slowly, would be impossible for him to throw the object without moving his arms.

They could and should do easily if they were worried about making sure the game is physcially perfect and that they wanted their fans to go wild with math to claim Link can throw aircraft carriers. This is not the case however.

Were all bias, especially my opposition but in this example hes actually being bias.

I like how you want to try and claim Toonforce, a piece of evidence used quite common and that can be used for some use in a debate as false. But then go on to play an obvious silly bugger, you want to claim thousands of tonnes, pressed through an individual no less is not going to have any effect on the ground beneath him? lol...hell people just walking along the ground can cause mud to divit and concrete curb/pavement cracks if you drive your car over it, which is at most a ton or two. 1000 tonnes on the PSI of a guys foot? and he just stands there...nah. Physically impossible.

OMFG!@#$@#@

OMGWTFIGO, AYFKM AND WTFWYT

79 PAGES IN THREE MONTHS...!!! EVEN KYO AND RYU VERSUS WASNT ABLE TO DO THAT.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST FBFH EFFIN A!!!

(NOTE- READ THE FIRST PAGE, THE WELL VERSED ELDERLY POSTERS OF KINGDOM KMC KNEW WHAT HELL WAS UNLEASHED UNTO MANKIND WHEN THIS THREAD WAS BORN)

Considering i had forgotten this thread while I finished Starcraft 2, its even more impressive!

Still nothing on Link v.s. Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The same can be said it seems for anyone I have to ram stuff down all the time, ofc saying its just me is selfish. I have seen Sin and Bloodrain have to say the same things over and over, show evidence only for you to ignore, "sigh", what a waste of time.

Which doesn't matter at all, because when shown something you will see whatever the hell you want to see, no matter how different from it the reality is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
This one instance wipes out that areas "liklihood" of anything realistic. Also point out another area wehre theres apprently "realistic" physics. And its not negligible because its major, the developers have chosen to do it as a team, this is not a character behaviour that can be argued within the games universe, its a graphical choice by the developers.

No, it doesn't. What it does is mean that Dangoro bounced on the lava once. That doesn't change the fact that you're required to anchor yourself in order to stop the much heavier Dangoro.

It would take less time to list where there isn't realistic physics. Which would only be Dangoro on the lava. But fine, I'll go for five.
1. Epona cannot stop on a dime when galloping.
2. Yeto plows through you after you defeat Blizzeta.
3. Charging goat.
4. Sumo wrestling.
5. Dangoro and other rolling Gorons.

So it isn't negligible because it's major. And it's major because everybody on the development team decided to do it. You know what else they decided to do? 1 through 5.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain has to react/move to kill, they have to react/focus TK to attempt to stop Kain who can escape it and kill with just react/move, the first part hes done before they have Tked, all he has to do is move. Chances are he may do it before they can Tk.

So Kain doesn't have to focus either to do his little teleport spell? I would think he would as long as we're operating on assumptions like activating magic takes a lot of focus even when having mastered the powers. I mean, especially when we see things like the TK I've mentioned happen without appearing to require a lot of it. Zant is able to hold a conversation when doing it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
LoZ wins because your opposition has finally done what my team have been doing for years? 😆 actually posting videos like I have for a lon time does not obviously give automatic win.

I've seen Scenario post more LoK videos than you have. Granted you've been here a lot longer. But the point stands. Since LoK vs LoZ has been fairly major, you've posted relatively little evidence.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Having difficulty doing it makes it impossible, because if you used some math (even screampastes) you will find that the joules Link has difficulty bringing to bear on lifting it slowly, would be impossible for him to throw the object without moving his arms.

I don't recall Link taking a relatively long time. The pillar is lifted in a matter of seconds. If it actually took him more than a minute to lift the thing then I doubt he would have the strength to lift it. And don't harp on the grunt, everyone grunts. Soccer players do it when they kick the ball, and I'm sure pitchers do it when they throw in Baseball.

Originally posted by Burning thought
They could and should do easily if they were worried about making sure the game is physcially perfect and that they wanted their fans to go wild with math to claim Link can throw aircraft carriers. This is not the case however.

They could, and should not, because it's pointless. Think about it, it would just be annoying. And compare it to some game you like. What if Kain had a random chance at screwing up a spell in game? Would you cherish this chance for it's commitment to realism or be like a normal person and think it's annoying as hell?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Were all bias, especially my opposition but in this example hes actually [b]being bias. [/B]

I doubt it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I like how you want to try and claim Toonforce, a piece of evidence used quite common and that can be used for some use in a debate as false. But then go on to play an obvious silly bugger, you want to claim thousands of tonnes, pressed through an individual no less is not going to have any effect on the ground beneath him? lol...hell people just walking along the ground can cause mud to divit and concrete curb/pavement cracks if you drive your car over it, which is at most a ton or two. 1000 tonnes on the PSI of a guys foot? and he just stands there...nah. Physically impossible.

Common to invalidate feats? Popeye doesn't do anything that doesn't apply to that rule, and he's widely accepted with pretty much all of his feats. Including jumping up and punching the moon in the face.

No, I didn't say that. What I said was I wanted you to prove it would crack the ground.

Except it isn't mud, and cannot be. Well, at least it can't be proven to be mud.

Roads do not crack as easily as you think they do. Roads last several years before being damaged enough to be repaired. And it is not just one car that will crack it. It's thousands of cars driving over the same spot thousands of times a day, and in even more serious cases, hours. Add to this the effects of weather. Rain, ice, and mother nature's civilization-ass-kicking ability. Of course all of this is irrelevant, because we're not talking about a road.

You have also failed to answer my question. Where is the line? I'm starting to think that if stone and concrete were to crack as easily as you say it does, Raziel's strength feat of the stone blocks might be toonforce. Out of curiosity, if that feat were invalidated, where would that leave Kain? A glass vampire with featless spells, I believe.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Which doesn't matter at all, because when shown something you will see whatever the hell you want to see, no matter how different from it the reality is.

No, it doesn't. What it does is mean that Dangoro bounced on the lava once. That doesn't change the fact that you're required to anchor yourself in order to stop the much heavier Dangoro.

It would take less time to list where there isn't realistic physics. Which would only be Dangoro on the lava. But fine, I'll go for five.
1. Epona cannot stop on a dime when galloping.
2. Yeto plows through you after you defeat Blizzeta.
3. Charging goat.
4. Sumo wrestling.
5. Dangoro and other rolling Gorons.

So it isn't negligible because it's major. And it's major because everybody on the development team decided to do it. You know what else they decided to do? 1 through 5.

So Kain doesn't have to focus either to do his little teleport spell? I would think he would as long as we're operating on assumptions like activating magic takes a lot of focus even when having mastered the powers. I mean, especially when we see things like the TK I've mentioned happen without appearing to require a lot of it. Zant is able to hold a conversation when doing it.

I've seen Scenario post more LoK videos than you have. Granted you've been here a lot longer. But the point stands. Since LoK vs LoZ has been fairly major, you've posted relatively little evidence.

I don't recall Link taking a relatively long time. The pillar is lifted in a matter of seconds. If it actually took him more than a minute to lift the thing then I doubt he would have the strength to lift it. And don't harp on the grunt, everyone grunts. Soccer players do it when they kick the ball, and I'm sure pitchers do it when they throw in Baseball.

They could, and should not, because it's pointless. Think about it, it would just be annoying. And compare it to some game you like. What if Kain had a random chance at screwing up a spell in game? Would you cherish this chance for it's commitment to realism or be like a normal person and think it's annoying as hell?

I doubt it.

Common to invalidate feats? Popeye doesn't do anything that doesn't apply to that rule, and he's widely accepted with pretty much all of his feats. Including jumping up and punching the moon in the face.

No, I didn't say that. What I said was I wanted you to prove it would crack the ground.

Except it isn't mud, and cannot be. Well, at least it can't be proven to be mud.

Roads do not crack as easily as you think they do. Roads last several years before being damaged enough to be repaired. And it is not just one car that will crack it. It's thousands of cars driving over the same spot thousands of times a day, and in even more serious cases, hours. Add to this the effects of weather. Rain, ice, and mother nature's civilization-ass-kicking ability. Of course all of this is irrelevant, because we're not talking about a road.

You have also failed to answer my question. Where is the line? I'm starting to think that if stone and concrete were to crack as easily as you say it does, Raziel's strength feat of the stone blocks might be toonforce. Out of curiosity, if that feat were invalidated, where would that leave Kain? A glass vampire with featless spells, I believe.

Dont talk to me about reality mr "lolz link can toss aircraft carriers" or mr "lolz link dodges supsonic whips although its not canonically seen, its there!", you invent things we dont even see.

He bounces along the lava like a toon, toonforce is present therefore physics is not important to the developers. Enough of the anchoring BS, all Link does is wear iron boots.

How is charging goats or rolling Gorons anything to do with how realistic the physics are?

Everyone needs to focus, only Kains got the mental speed as shown to be incredible in comparison to LoZ characters who do not have the reaction.

Yeah right, and this is the truth from a bias opposition member? I have shown evidence for any claims I needed to back up, Scenario and more importantly you have not.

It doesnt matter if its annoying (shouldnt be for some ground to break, GoW and DMC show obstacles and objects around breakin when heavy objects land).

Whats Popeye got to do with this? I dont know anything about Popeye so choose a new example...and make sure its relevent.

Because 1000 tonnes is too much for regular materials, even heavy ones to survive against, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte

This tank was not going to be built for many reasons, one reason being that its 1000 tonnes of weight would have destroyed roads. But all this aside, ground is not indestructable like the stuff Link can apparently hold up 1k tonnes on through toonforce (or its not 1k tonnes which is more likely) and 1000 tonnes on Links frame would have damaged the vey ground. unless you have evidence to suggest the ground is some sort of super dense earth?

This tank was not going to be built for many reasons, one reason being that its 1000 tonnes of weight would have destroyed roads. But all this aside, ground is not indestructable like the stuff Link can apparently hold up 1k tonnes on through toonforce (or its not 1k tonnes which is more likely) and 1000 tonnes on Links frame would have damaged the vey ground. unless you have evidence to suggest the ground is some sort of super dense earth?

Or more likely they didn't feel like animating Link's legs sinking into the ground on a 30 mb cartridge, which also would have taken away slightly from the badassery factor.

Hulk has carried around mountains without this happening in canon instances, toonforce? haermm

Dense as ever, I see.

Or this whining about lack of cartridge space is a way to cover up the fact theres so many inconsistencies not covered by your BS "math" that you like claiming are accurate despite the flaws.

If Hulk carries mountains but the ground hes walking on is fine then obviously the developers threw physics out of hte window. Not that you could carry a mountain even with the strength.

Dense? because I dont agree with your fanon BS? lol indeed.

Let me guess, graphics and cartidge space is another problem at the end of OoT when Ganondorfs bazillionz! of tonnes of strength only sends the MS a few meters when he hits it? 😄

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dont talk to me about reality mr "lolz link can toss aircraft carriers" or mr "lolz link dodges supsonic whips although its not canonically seen, its there!", you invent things we dont even see.

Link has the strength to do so. With this knowledge it's reasonable to assume he can do it. Otherwise we're talking major stupidity here. As in, Kain can't pick up a spoon, and neither can Link.

I did not say he can dodge them. What I did say is he can react to them, which he either did or did not. We can't prove he was hit by Majora, which means he had to have either blocked or dodged them. Either way, he reacted to them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He bounces along the lava like a toon, toonforce is present therefore physics is not important to the developers. Enough of the anchoring BS, all Link does is wear iron boots.

I lol'd. You are required to anchor yourself because you are not heavy enough to stop a charging Goron. This is flat out stated. And yeah, all Link does is wear some heavy boots. Good thing that's all he has to do to anchor himself.

Toonforce simply being present is not an argument. You have ignored my point. If Toonforce invalidated anything, it would be the thing it did. In this case, Dangoro can't bounce on lava for real, it was toonforce.

Originally posted by Burning thought
How is charging goats or rolling Gorons anything to do with how realistic the physics are?

It applies the same principle as Dangoro. A lighter being cannot halt a heavier one without moving.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Everyone needs to focus, only Kains got the mental speed as shown to be incredible in comparison to LoZ characters who do not have the reaction.

Your mental speed argument is nonsense. It hinges on the idea that Kain has to react to and fully process every enemy he sees before him with no evidence for such a requirement. He could have his path planned out beforehand or a number of other possibilities. You merely chose the one that would assist you the best.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeah right, and this is the truth from a bias opposition member? I have shown evidence for any claims I needed to back up, Scenario and more importantly you have not.

We've already established that with your scale of information Scenario has thrown an internet of information at you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It doesnt matter if its annoying (shouldnt be for some ground to break, GoW and DMC show obstacles and objects around breakin when heavy objects land).

God of War and DMC are also much more recent games, which helps to support ScreamPaste's idea.

So then, even though it is pointless, neglecting to do so means it's toonforce? Raziel could not lift his blocks without them falling over. They are much too large to have a reasonable grip on, and piling a second on top of one makes for an unstable pillar. The second block would slide off.

Since it did not do this as the developers did not program it in, clearly, realism was not their intention. LoK is toonforce.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats Popeye got to do with this? I dont know anything about Popeye so choose a new example...and make sure its relevent.

He's an example, obviously. Don't know why you bothered to ask that question when you just answered it later.

I could use Hulk. Or with the revelation discovered in my reply to your last paragraph, Kain and Raziel.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because 1000 tonnes is too much for regular materials, even heavy ones to survive against, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte

This tank was not going to be built for many reasons, one reason being that its [b]1000 tonnes of weight would have destroyed roads. But all this aside, ground is not indestructable like the stuff Link can apparently hold up 1k tonnes on through toonforce (or its not 1k tonnes which is more likely) and 1000 tonnes on Links frame would have damaged the vey ground. unless you have evidence to suggest the ground is some sort of super dense earth? [/B]

Congratulations. 1,000 tons would render paved roads totally destroyed, and be impossible to cross bridges with. Luckily, Link is not standing on a paved road.

I didn't say ground was indestructible. I did say that it's pretty hard to crack something that isn't solid rock, though.

Answer my question. Where is the line on how much weight cracks stone? I'd love to have some more evidence that LoK is subject to toonforce.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Link has the strength to do so. With this knowledge it's reasonable to assume he can do it. Otherwise we're talking major stupidity here. As in, Kain can't pick up a spoon, and neither can Link.

I did not say he can dodge them. What I did say is he can react to them, which he either did or did not. We can't prove he was hit by Majora, which means he had to have either blocked or dodged them. Either way, he reacted to them.

I lol'd. You are required to anchor yourself because you are not heavy enough to stop a charging Goron. This is flat out stated. And yeah, all Link does is wear some heavy boots. Good thing that's all he has to do to anchor himself.

Toonforce simply being present is not an argument. You have ignored my point. If Toonforce invalidated anything, it would be the thing it did. In this case, Dangoro can't bounce on lava for real, it was toonforce.

It applies the same principle as Dangoro. A lighter being cannot halt a heavier one without moving.

Your mental speed argument is nonsense. It hinges on the idea that Kain has to react to and fully process every enemy he sees before him with no evidence for such a requirement. He could have his path planned out beforehand or a number of other possibilities. You merely chose the one that would assist you the best.

We've already established that with your scale of information Scenario has thrown an internet of information at you.

God of War and DMC are also much more recent games, which helps to support ScreamPaste's idea.

So then, even though it is pointless, neglecting to do so means it's toonforce? Raziel could not lift his blocks without them falling over. They are much too large to have a reasonable grip on, and piling a second on top of one makes for an unstable pillar. The second block would slide off.

Since it did not do this as the developers did not program it in, clearly, realism was not their intention. LoK is toonforce.

He's an example, obviously. Don't know why you bothered to ask that question when you just answered it later.

I could use Hulk. Or with the revelation discovered in my reply to your last paragraph, Kain and Raziel.

Congratulations. 1,000 tons would render paved roads totally destroyed, and be impossible to cross bridges with. Luckily, Link is not standing on a paved road.

I didn't say ground was indestructible. I did say that it's pretty hard to crack something that isn't solid rock, though.

Answer my question. Where is the line on how much weight cracks stone? I'd love to have some more evidence that LoK is subject to toonforce.

Thats the joke here, Link does not have that much strength.

He does not do any of those things you mensioned as we dont see him do it, so its not a feat.

Neither are the boots apprently, either that or Dangoro is below 600 pounds which is the only gaugable weight for the iron boots.

Its an invalidation of physics being realistic.

So Link cant halt a goat? and thats a given.

Impossible, he cant plan something in the future because hes not got precog, he would have to know when and where his opponents are for this to be the case. Its not, Kain reacts then and there and his brain has to recognise the world because hes not present in it while "teleported" as it were, so hes got to do far more than most when reaction is concerned.

No thats your label, if hes thrown an "internet" ive tossed the entire world wide web at him. Only difference is hes thrown random piecies, my world wide web is a web of interconecting piecies perfectly formed like the most artful of spiders 😉

His idea is not an argument. It does not help him, it just means theres less evidence for LoZ to have realistic physics.

Yeh you really are not trying here are you lol? go and troll elseware please...

No hes not standing on anything reinforced with concrete or tarmac...hes standing on much weaker ground, furthermore the Tank in question would have its weight/PSI distributed over its enormous tracks, Links PSI and therefore the weight is going through Links feet.

It seems your trying to get a figuire so that you can shout and claim that Lok's ground should break as well? trying to create a double standard or something? 😆 unfortunatly your not that clever, not even close and the fact Lok's blocks are supported beneath Raziels feet by stone and materials of the same make, oh and Raziels blocks are not 1000 tonnes, only 100 therefore its not ludicrous. They also support themselves for the majority, Raziel does not support them over his head.

In summary any of your fanon is demolished by this evidence, theres a load of toonforce/physical impossibilities that negate any accurate math assuming it is accurate in the first place. Its just impossible what Link does to be physically viable, therefore you can shove your little figuires and "aircraft carrying" link back in the fanon scrapbook.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats the joke here, Link does not have that much strength.

Except that he does.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He does not do any of those things you mensioned as we dont see him do it, so its not a feat.

I've seen you apply this logic before, which invalidates everything you've ever claimed about Kain's spells. They don't work on anything more durable than humans, and probably not even humans. I mean, can you prove he's used these spells on things? I'm willing to bet all you have to gauge it's power is optional gameplay creatures.

While I'm on the subject, any quote you have from the games that has not been shown is also invalidated. I mean, after all, we haven't seen them. Being fair is a *****, huh? How will LoK come out on top without total bias in their favor?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Neither are the boots apprently, either that or Dangoro is below 600 pounds which is the only gaugable weight for the iron boots.

The boots are much heavier than Iron. The math that you just used for the boots is when they are totally solid. Solid as in, can't be worn because where the feet go is filled with. Oh, and they are also made of two rectangles, adding even more extra Iron. So, together, those boots would normally weigh about 100 pounds at most, put together. With a fair guess at Link's weight, and adding 40 more pounds for the hell of it, the total is 300 pounds. Which Dangoro cannot weigh.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its an invalidation of physics being realistic.

Why? Because you need it to be? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So Link cant halt a goat? and thats a given.

Nah, he can. But since it's heavier he slides backwards before it totally stops.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Impossible, he cant plan something in the future because hes not got precog, he would have to know when and where his opponents are for this to be the case. Its not, Kain reacts then and there and his brain has to recognise the world because hes not present in it while "teleported" as it were, so hes got to do far more than most when reaction is concerned.

It's really not that hard, dude. Take a look at where the five enemies are, and plan out where exactly to port to.

Lol, recognize the world. All he has to do is see an enemy in front of him. And when he sees that, slash. But hell, he doesn't even have to recognize an enemy. Since he has no friends, whatever he sees in front of him is attacked. Makes the speed even less when you take into account the fact that he doesn't have to look where to port next.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No thats your label, if hes thrown an "internet" ive tossed the entire world wide web at him. Only difference is hes thrown random piecies, my world wide web is a web of interconecting piecies perfectly formed like the most artful of spiders 😉

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😕

😱

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First, that is your scale of information. Second, the two are the same thing. Third, lol. Fourth, LMFAO.

Originally posted by Burning thought
His idea is not an argument. It does not help him, it just means theres less evidence for LoZ to have realistic physics.

Not really. If he is correct, no cracks is negligible.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh you really are not trying here are you lol? go and troll elseware please...

I'll accept your concession. You've basically ignored an extremely valid point in favor of a simple lol in the hopes that I'll forget about it and move on. Yeah, not happening. Looks like LoK is riddled with toonforce. You've not managed to refute the point in question. Do I need to wait a few days for you to come up with something?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No hes not standing on anything reinforced with concrete or tarmac...hes standing on much weaker ground, furthermore the Tank in question would have its weight/PSI distributed over its enormous tracks, Links PSI and therefore the weight is going through Links feet.

Except if you can't prove he's standing on solid ground. And I'm not convinced he would sink in. A relatively thinner layer of dirt atop some solid rock would allow Link to sink either not at all or a negligible distance and not crack the rock. Of course, not standing there holding the pillar for a minute helps with that, too.

Regardless, I'm not seeing evidence of unrealistic physics here. What I'm seeing is an unrealistic portrayal of dirt on the ground.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It seems your trying to get a figuire so that you can shout and claim that Lok's ground should break as well? trying to create a double standard or something? 😆 unfortunatly your not that clever, not even close and the fact Lok's blocks are supported beneath Raziels feet by stone and materials of the same make, oh and Raziels blocks are not 1000 tonnes, only 100 therefore its not ludicrous. They also support themselves for the majority, Raziel does not support them over his head.

But I am that clever, and I doubt you'd have even noticed had I not told you outright. And no, not creating a double standard. Creating an environment that you won't like because it's fair.

The same make, eh? Hmm. Interesting, it would then seem that those stone blocks are not as heavy as previously thought, especially if an entire castle was made of them. What was it ScreamPaste once said? "You don't build tall shit out of heavy shit?"

However, I am curious. How is it the smaller blocks of the floor would be capable of standing up against more material on top of it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
In summary any of your fanon is demolished by this evidence, theres a load of toonforce/physical impossibilities that negate any accurate math assuming it is accurate in the first place. Its just impossible what Link does to be physically viable, therefore you can shove your little figuires and "aircraft carrying" link back in the fanon scrapbook.

You can have this when you properly refute something. Oh, and when I actually use some fanfiction.

Ah, sorry I'm late, guys. Real Life just threw a little wrench at me.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive refuted all your points so many times, but the problem is your making up BS half the time without evidence. In this case your assuming that just because Vampires have evolved past their weakness to sunlight, and Midna has resistance to sunlight (not sure ive seen other twili burn up in sunlight but w/e) that their similiar and will both be harmed by light spirits. Problem is Lok vampires are only harmed by Sunlight, until youve proven Light spirits can harm Vampires the same way vampiric weakness to sunlight does (only ofc to higher level) then your point drops dead. Who says the resistance even attempts to resist the light spirits powers if their not even using sunlight?

And you're being quite unreasonable. What you are basically asking for is a video of a Nosgothic vampire being disintegrated by a Light Spirit. I'm going to be frank and tell you that this does not exist. What we do have, however, is evidence of creatures of darkness that resist sunlight being affected by the life force of the gods, which is known to be a form of light. It is known that they use this light to protect Hyrule from darkness. They are shown to affect dark creatures, and their light doubles as the light to banish evil, as seen here:
YouTube video

1:15

All ouve shown me is that twili, like the twilight the light spirits can push aside can also be affected by light spirits.

And all you've said is "no, it isn't sunlight!" You want sunlight? I can give it to you.
YouTube video

9:55, the Sol is a Twili sun.

YouTube video

6:10-7:00, it breaks the Shadow Beast spell on Twili (because it's sunlight, though the Twili have adapted to it) and now that's in Link's Master Sword. The Light from the sword can break Shadow Beasts, too.

No hes not, not at all. Hes not evil.

You cannot possibly be serious. Here, scroll to the bottom of this. And there's a section for Kain here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideogameCrueltyPotential

Light spirits only sealed over an unkown time and together one portion of magic and you think this is usable agains loK? in any useful area? lol....so Raziel casts a fireball and it takes all 4 of them to stop it, and over na unkown amount of time seal it into an object...lol, in the meantime vastly powerful sorcerors beyond light spirits wipe out Hyrule.

No, where did you get that idea? They sealed the magic before the Interlopers could do anything. Raziel attempts to cast a fireball, only to find that his powers are gone and Midna is the one using them. Or Ganondorf crushes them. Either way.

YouTube video

3:15, That's few seconds at most.

Shoving TK, e.g. not grabbing it like Midna would have to.

Why grab? She, Zant, or Ganondorf could just scatter him all over the place.

When did I say only his magical light? and its not "designed" not to harm vampires, it just does not because sunlight is the vampiric weakness, not the light given off my fire, light torches, glyph energy etc. Your reaching in the hope that a weakness of the twili against light sprits will work against beings completly diverse and whos weakness "used to be" specifically sunlight.

You said magical light in general, I don't think I said only his light. Regardless, that light wasn't meant to hurt anything, so it didn't. Life force of the gods is proven to be able to hurt things, seal magic, and affect evil or dark beings despite resistance. Oh, and possibly either revive the dead or break curses, depending on how you view this:

YouTube video

It doesnt get "burned off", it simply becomes more mist until all its vapour is gone. Point is, Kains not going to be anywhere long enough in the form of mist for the weather process to finally evapourate him, not that it could, he excists in sunlight and mist in the series.

I wasn't even saying that would happen. Though the effect of the Light Spirits on Kain's mist form would probably be interesting to watch.

Watching the gameplay of that Zant video, it seems hit and miss where he teleports. Rarely behind, more slightly to the left or right.

Which is nearly as good. Other than mist, I don't think anyone has any real way to stop Zant's spinning attack, either. Or one of these guys:
YouTube video
That summoning, and twilight cloud, would be a constant hassle.

Toonforce has always been an excellent argument, you claiming it invalid because it unravels the math you want to use in an area where physics is ignored does not help you. Do we? how do we know that when not long after he seems to have made his way up the hill as his usual Ganondorf form holding the Twilight helmet in hand?

Toonforce is a terrible argument. It amounts to "Yes, he did that but I don't think he should have, therefore I will ignore it." That's pretty much how your argument goes anyway. So tell me again why any math works for LoK when soldiers in armor can bounce on solid ground?
As for Ganondorf, he obviously defeated Midna and took it, either before or after he blew up the castle, but likely after.

Based on feats, yes he is. And all those things take more time than it does Kain to go from flesh to mist. [/B]

Based on feats, no he is not. Both Ganondorf and Zant react to arrows at point blank range, as well as show their own speeds as being similar to Kain. Midna can just hide in Kain's shadow, and even getting close to Link would fry him due to the Sol infused Master Sword. As for the mist, LoZ has several reliable ways to force Kain out of mist form whenever they want.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Thats what you would need to prove that Vampires in Lok have the same weakness to the light of Light spirits as twilight entities do. Its almost like saying Glyph energy that Vampires were affected by and could be detected by could also detect Twili in the same way, it does not work both ways. As I said, vampires are not evil, and evil is a loose term even in LoZ it seems because they harm midna whos not evil. Ive yet to see evidence to suggest their light is going to harm anyone other than a twili entitiy. The old vampiric weaknes was sunlight ,thats it. If youve not got sunlight then your not harming "old" vampires.

I have seen Sol before, what they claim as a "sun" is nothing like the weakness vampires have, its no more than an orb of light. Not sure if you could actually claim that their similiar in any way.

Whats your link supposed to prove? somehing the entire game that ive played and many others does not show? 😕 Kains not evil, period. He can be arrogent, rude and sometimes cruel but not "evil".

Ime not seeing any magic being sealed at all...only 3 balls of light rotating and then Link screaming...

If for some reason, within their slow reaction times he stays as a mist form of himself within a meter or so of them? and what would be the point of this?

Its proven to be able to hurt twiliight forces from the evidence shown. Which is undestandable, light vs twilight, you kinda see how those counter.

Nothing? that would be pretty boring to watch...

Not be able to stop his spinning attack? aside from faster speed/reflexes, how about they just stand there and take it from the weak and featless little guy?

If thats what you think "toonforce" is then I suggest you read around the forum, posts in here and online can help you out.

Zant is close to Kain speed ( but not reaction speed) but ive not seen much from Ganondorf. Kains not a twilight entity lol, so nice try. And Kain has many ways to mind rape, soul devour or blood drain and gain the powers of any LoZ character but we will get to that later.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Except that he does.

I've seen you apply this logic before, which invalidates everything you've ever claimed about Kain's spells. They don't work on anything more durable than humans, and probably not even humans. I mean, can you prove he's used these spells on things? I'm willing to bet all you have to gauge it's power is optional gameplay creatures.

While I'm on the subject, any quote you have from the games that has not been shown is also invalidated. I mean, after all, we haven't seen them. Being fair is a *****, huh? How will LoK come out on top without total bias in their favor?

The boots are much heavier than Iron. The math that you just used for the boots is when they are totally solid. Solid as in, can't be worn because where the feet go is filled with. Oh, and they are also made of two rectangles, adding even more extra Iron. So, together, those boots would normally weigh about 100 pounds at most, put together. With a fair guess at Link's weight, and adding 40 more pounds for the hell of it, the total is 300 pounds. Which Dangoro cannot weigh.

Why? Because you need it to be? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Nah, he can. But since it's heavier he slides backwards before it totally stops.

It's really not that hard, dude. Take a look at where the five enemies are, and plan out where exactly to port to.

Lol, recognize the world. All he has to do is see an enemy in front of him. And when he sees that, slash. But hell, he doesn't even have to recognize an enemy. Since he has no friends, whatever he sees in front of him is attacked. Makes the speed even less when you take into account the fact that he doesn't have to look where to port next.

...😐

😕

😱

😐

😆

First, that is your scale of information. Second, the two are the same thing. Third, lol. Fourth, LMFAO.

Not really. If he is correct, no cracks is negligible.

I'll accept your concession. You've basically ignored an extremely valid point in favor of a simple lol in the hopes that I'll forget about it and move on. Yeah, not happening. Looks like LoK is riddled with toonforce. You've not managed to refute the point in question. Do I need to wait a few days for you to come up with something?

Except if you can't prove he's standing on solid ground. And I'm not convinced he would sink in. A relatively thinner layer of dirt atop some solid rock would allow Link to sink either not at all or a negligible distance and not crack the rock. Of course, not standing there holding the pillar for a minute helps with that, too.

Regardless, I'm not seeing evidence of unrealistic physics here. What I'm seeing is an unrealistic portrayal of dirt on the ground.

But I am that clever, and I doubt you'd have even noticed had I not told you outright. And no, not creating a double standard. Creating an environment that you won't like because it's fair.

The same make, eh? Hmm. Interesting, it would then seem that those stone blocks are not as heavy as previously thought, especially if an entire castle was made of them. What was it ScreamPaste once said? "You don't build tall shit out of heavy shit?"

However, I am curious. How is it the smaller blocks of the floor would be capable of standing up against more material on top of it?

You can have this when you properly refute something. Oh, and when I actually use some fanfiction.

Oh rly?

It does not because unlike actual feats that you want to claim Link has to gauge him by, Kains spells have canon storyline. It would be the same for Link and LoZ games if you can find me some text that tells us about link moving at lightning speed and throwing mountains, but theres just not.

Thats not proven at all, the only thing that points to that is fanon math thats based on flawed evidence ,e.g. how much rock the volume/mass of a Goron is made of. And no, I used Scenarios claim that the weights that the boots just about defeated are around 600 pounds. Ofc he can weigh, because as I said and as the games toonforce elements point out, the developers threw "true physics" out the window, you can never prove especially what with those two elements being in play that the developers made sure everything was physically realistic and accurate (you sitll will flounder trying lol).

Because 1000 tonnes through the PSi of a guys foot would damage the ground, split it etc at least and Gorons using real physics would not bounce/skim along lava.

And your claim is that the physics are accurate because Link wears iron boots to "anchor" himself? 😆

But the enemies move in between ports and Kain apepars behind them every time.

The brain takes into account the world as you move, your eyes are like cameras taking pictures. Kains cameras cant see what their supposed ot be focusing on, it should take Kain seconds if not longer to determine what hes got to do yet he can do all that AND react/attack etc in said time. Zant, Ganon, midna etc would flounder against such speed.

Wrong, I included not just public internet but the whole web regardless of privacy settings 😛 I got the pentagons deepest secrets on my side.

If he is correct, then the developers whole choice of animations can be based on the fact that they could not show it realitically, therefore the physics being realistic is made void and negative. Hes wrong both ways as are you.

Ive ignored trolling, your just claiming random things in LoK should fall off or move randomly, go learn physics or better yet common sense.

I cant prove hes standing on solid ground? tell me, what do you assume hes standing on if not ground, rock, mud etc? it certainly looks like solid gorund ot me, its not adamantium.

You and clever in the same setence? "sigh"....I almost stopped reading, fortunatly for you I didnt..

Who said anything about a castle? who said anything about any of these doubts/ assumptions you want to try just because you think its a similiar story with LoK? its just not lol...

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats what you would need to prove that Vampires in Lok have the same weakness to the light of Light spirits as twilight entities do. Its almost like saying Glyph energy that Vampires were affected by and could be detected by could also detect Twili in the same way, it does not work both ways. As I said, vampires are not evil, and evil is a loose term even in LoZ it seems because they harm midna whos not evil. Ive yet to see evidence to suggest their light is going to harm anyone other than a twili entitiy. The old vampiric weaknes was sunlight ,thats it. If youve not got sunlight then your not harming "old" vampires.

And I have. Why do you think Twilight is so different? It's just dark magic, after all. The Twili were transformed by that magic and adapted to it. Hell, twilight is just a shadowy form of sunlight. The fact that the Light Spirits have a source of divine light with which they can deal out the smiting on dark and evil creatures just cements the position. Midna was affected because she is dark magic user, and was affected by the dark magic that created the precursors of the Twili. I don't think it even matters whether or not life force of the gods is sunlight, simply because it's the light of the gods. The same source of the light to banish evil, which does in fact work on Ganondorf, so Kain will affected as well.

I have seen Sol before, what they claim as a "sun" is nothing like the weakness vampires have, its no more than an orb of light. Not sure if you could actually claim that their similiar in any way.

Nope, those things illuminate the entire Twilight Realm, and are directly stated to be just like the sun. Further evidence shows them having a severe effect on converted Twili as well as the Dark Fog.

Whats your link supposed to prove? somehing the entire game that ive played and many others does not show? 😕 Kains not evil, period. He can be arrogent, rude and sometimes cruel but not "evil".

I literally cannot name a major character in LoK that is not evil to some degree. Just because his enemies are worse than he is, it does not mean Kain is not evil. Several of the things that Kain does are Ganondorf level villainy. Your perverse sexual lust for Kain does not change this fact.

Ime not seeing any magic being sealed at all...only 3 balls of light rotating and then Link screaming...

That's not Link. That's a Dark Interloper with Link's appearance that has just realized his magic no longer works.

If for some reason, within their slow reaction times he stays as a mist form of himself within a meter or so of them? and what would be the point of this?

Kain isn't really outside of their reaction times, and I haven't seen him move that fast in mist form. Regardless, why would he need to be within a meter of them? Any one of them could just teleport to him anyway, and Midna could just teleport him.

Its proven to be able to hurt twiliight forces from the evidence shown. Which is undestandable, light vs twilight, you kinda see how those counter.

And Ganondorf, who is Gerudo. Kain, a being of darkness and dark magic weilding dark gifts would likely get enlightened pretty hard.

Nothing? that would be pretty boring to watch...

I just wonder if he'd be able to scream...

Not be able to stop his spinning attack? aside from faster speed/reflexes, how about they just stand there and take it from the weak and featless little guy?

If they stand there, they're getting torn to pieces. Or transformed into a little imp, and then torn to pieces.

If thats what you think "toonforce" is then I suggest you read around the forum, posts in here and online can help you out.

No, see, I'm looking at your posts and that's pretty much exactly how it goes. You see something, like, say, Link lifting a pillar, then you arbitrarily decide that because Link grunted, you won't accept it as a feat. It did happen, but you just decided that because of some detail that didn't work like you think it should, you will ignore the whole thing. Oh, and you didn't answer my question: do bouncing soldiers invalidate all of LoK as ignoring physics or not?

Zant is close to Kain speed ( but not reaction speed) but ive not seen much from Ganondorf. Kains not a twilight entity lol, so nice try. And Kain has many ways to mind rape, soul devour or blood drain and gain the powers of any LoZ character but we will get to that later.

Both Zant and Ganondorf react to point blank arrows and dodge them easily, so they can react to Kain. They also show great mind, soul, and magic resistence via the Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards, and Kain's spells have no feats, so the resistance trumps them. Link is protected by the Master Sword, as well as via Fused Shadows and Mirror Shards, though he also has the power of the Sols, and the Triforce of Courage. Midna, too, and she can just hide in Kain's shadow.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Oh rly?

Yarly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It does not because unlike actual feats that you want to claim Link has to gauge him by, Kains spells have canon storyline. It would be the same for Link and LoZ games if you can find me some text that tells us about link moving at lightning speed and throwing mountains, but theres just not.

Right. I forgot that Dangoro, Fyrus, sumo wrestling, the Light spirits, and more in other games are totally optional and therefore cannot be proven to be canon. And we don't have to move two of those pillars to get to Ganon in OoT at all, either.

I need quotes to prove Link can react to lightning? Okay. I don't think I can produce that. But I assume, that since you're a fair minded individual, you have a text of some sort that can be used as proof Kain has such fast reaction times, powerful spells, and other crap that you've said. I mean, since we're operating on only what we can read stated now.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not proven at all, the only thing that points to that is fanon math thats based on flawed evidence ,e.g. how much rock the volume/mass of a Goron is made of. And no, I used Scenarios claim that the weights that the boots just about defeated are around 600 pounds. Ofc he can weigh, because as I said and as the games toonforce elements point out, the developers threw "true physics" out the window, you can never prove especially what with those two elements being in play that the developers made sure everything was physically realistic and accurate (you sitll will flounder trying lol).

It's "fanon math" that you keep quoting and attempting to prove your argument. I've just had a radical though, so bear with me on this, please. You, still with me? Are using a flawed argument. But that operates on the idea that my math which was added to almost as much as the pillar math was subtracted from, is somehow still far too little or high.

Why are you still clinging to that? That toonforce elements nonsense you spout has been refuted. The logic was that all the people on the developer staff made the decision, right? Well, they also made the decision to require Link to follow what, if I recall, is the principle of inertia.

"I sitll will flounder trying lol" lol. Kind of like you're still doing with just about everything you're saying?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because 1000 tonnes through the PSi of a guys foot would damage the ground, split it etc at least and Gorons using real physics would not bounce/skim along lava.

Well, good thing you can't prove what kind of ground it is, or I might be in serious trouble.

You've already said why Dangoro bounced on the lava. Toonforce. The problem is that it doesn't invalidate all of Zelda like you want it to, because it isn't going to do that just because you want it to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And your claim is that the physics are accurate because Link wears iron boots to "anchor" himself? 😆

I believe that is what I said, yes. It requires the addition of weight to stop a much heavier object in motion. You know laughing at something doesn't make it wrong, right? If it did, you would be really tough to beat though. You laugh at things like they're wrong like nobody I've ever seen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But the enemies move in between ports and Kain apepars behind them every time.

Yeah, those two inch steps totally throw off an aim. I forgot that Kain's sword is only an inch long, and his arms are only a few centimeters.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The brain takes into account the world as you move, your eyes are like cameras taking pictures. Kains cameras cant see what their supposed ot be focusing on, it should take Kain seconds if not longer to determine what hes got to do yet he can do all that AND react/attack etc in said time. Zant, Ganon, midna etc would flounder against such speed.

That's true, unless you're focused and only need to process one person in front of you. You're making it sound like he stops and admires the landscape after ever port, which is laughable.

I guess flounder is the new word. Oh you silly british people. You're british right?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Wrong, I included not just public internet but the whole web regardless of privacy settings 😛 I got the pentagons deepest secrets on my side.

Okay, I see what's going on here. You've changed your scale, now what you posted isn't tons anymore. It's an internet. So Scenario has thrown at you....about forty two Internets. Just guessing. I could keep another count in my sig if you'd like.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If he is correct, then the developers whole choice of animations can be based on the fact that they could not show it realitically, therefore the physics being realistic is made void and negative. Hes wrong both ways as are you.

I see, so not being capable of or choosing not to animate cracks in the ground throws out realistic physics. Apparently there is a lot that does that. First it was that it needs to fall over, and now this.

Unless he's right either way and you're just expecting too much from an N64 game. I know it's the greatest game of all time, but come on. Even Einstein was fairly limited by technology.

So what does it mean that Kain doesn't have scratches on his body from when he gets attacked?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive ignored trolling, your just claiming random things in LoK should fall off or move randomly, go learn physics or better yet common sense.

😱

Unless I'm wrong about how Raziel carried his stone blocks, the same rule of pointless animations not being present negating any possibility of realism should also apply to LoK. You're a fair guy, right? Also, they don't trip or ever screw up spells. Realism is obviously not an intention.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I cant prove hes standing on solid ground? tell me, what do you assume hes standing on if not ground, rock, mud etc? it certainly looks like solid gorund ot me, its not adamantium.

I don't know. But I know it can't be mud. I can't prove what it is, but neither can you. And without this knowledge, you cannot say if cracks should have appeared or if Link should have sunk in to the ground.

However, it does seem that the area this pillar was in was totally razed over, perhaps burned or dug up. Considering it looks entirely different, this is a fair assumption. How far would 1,000 tons sink down on what could be the equivalent of sand?

Originally posted by Burning thought
You and clever in the same setence? "sigh"....I almost stopped reading, fortunatly for you I didnt..

Yup. And look, there it is again! Can't find it? Here's a hint: you posted it, not too clever. Look! There it is again!

Originally posted by Burning thought
Who said anything about a castle? who said anything about any of these doubts/ assumptions you want to try just because you think its a similiar story with LoK? its just not lol...

I recall stone block floors, which sounds like a castle. If it wasn't, where was he? I'd be interested in knowing.

And no, actually I know from experience that when one applies your absurd rules to their opposition of you, they are almost certain to discover that your fiction does not fall in with the same specifications you require of others.