LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Started by Burning thought85 pages

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yarly.

Right. I forgot that Dangoro, Fyrus, sumo wrestling, the Light spirits, and more in other games are totally optional and therefore cannot be proven to be canon. And we don't have to move two of those pillars to get to Ganon in OoT at all, either.

I need quotes to prove Link can react to lightning? Okay. I don't think I can produce that. But I assume, that since you're a fair minded individual, you have a text of some sort that can be used as proof Kain has such fast reaction times, powerful spells, and other crap that you've said. I mean, since we're operating on only what we can read stated now.

It's "fanon math" that you keep quoting and attempting to prove your argument. I've just had a radical though, so bear with me on this, please. You, still with me? Are using a flawed argument. But that operates on the idea that my math which was added to almost as much as the pillar math was subtracted from, is somehow still far too little or high.

Why are you still clinging to that? That toonforce elements nonsense you spout has been refuted. The logic was that all the people on the developer staff made the decision, right? Well, they also made the decision to require Link to follow what, if I recall, is the principle of inertia.

"I sitll will flounder trying lol" lol. Kind of like you're still doing with just about everything you're saying?

Well, good thing you can't prove what kind of ground it is, or I might be in serious trouble.

You've already said why Dangoro bounced on the lava. Toonforce. The problem is that it doesn't invalidate all of Zelda like you want it to, because it isn't going to do that just because you want it to.

I believe that is what I said, yes. It requires the addition of weight to stop a much heavier object in motion. You know laughing at something doesn't make it wrong, right? If it did, you would be really tough to beat though. You laugh at things like they're wrong like nobody I've ever seen.

Yeah, those two inch steps totally throw off an aim. I forgot that Kain's sword is only an inch long, and his arms are only a few centimeters.

That's true, unless you're focused and only need to process one person in front of you. You're making it sound like he stops and admires the landscape after ever port, which is laughable.

I guess flounder is the new word. Oh you silly british people. You're british right?

Okay, I see what's going on here. You've changed your scale, now what you posted isn't tons anymore. It's an internet. So Scenario has thrown at you....about forty two Internets. Just guessing. I could keep another count in my sig if you'd like.

I see, so not being capable of or choosing not to animate cracks in the ground throws out realistic physics. Apparently there is a lot that does that. First it was that it needs to fall over, and now this.

Unless he's right either way and you're just expecting too much from an N64 game. I know it's the greatest game of all time, but come on. Even Einstein was fairly limited by technology.

So what does it mean that Kain doesn't have scratches on his body from when he gets attacked?

😱

Unless I'm wrong about how Raziel carried his stone blocks, the same rule of pointless animations not being present negating any possibility of realism should also apply to LoK. You're a fair guy, right? Also, they don't trip or ever screw up spells. Realism is obviously not an intention.

I don't know. But I know it can't be mud. I can't prove what it is, but neither can you. And without this knowledge, you cannot say if cracks should have appeared or if Link should have sunk in to the ground.

However, it does seem that the area this pillar was in was totally razed over, perhaps burned or dug up. Considering it looks entirely different, this is a fair assumption. How far would 1,000 tons sink down on what could be the equivalent of sand?

Yup. And look, there it is again! Can't find it? Here's a hint: you posted it, not too clever. Look! There it is again!

I recall stone block floors, which sounds like a castle. If it wasn't, where was he? I'd be interested in knowing.

And no, actually I know from experience that when one applies your absurd rules to their opposition of you, they are almost certain to discover that your fiction does not fall in with the same specifications you require of others.

Dangoro has been countered as negative, Fyrus gets tripped, theres no good strength here. Bo can sumo wrestle, no evidence to suggest he was super strength. Apparently theres also other optional versions of this block, that are moved in exactly the same way, it just seems like a unimportant animation to me which is probably why physics were thrown out of the window.

You need quotes/evidence that he can react to lightning, until you show me this you cant claim it a feat. Since most of the forum who dont wank LoZ have seen your apprent evidence and countered it, I suggest you find something new.

Refuted? quote where you refuted this? all I see is a fanboy desperatly whining about how bouncing Gorons and lolzy lack of physics still allow for accurate math based on these flawed lack of physics still works? 🙄

Its going to invalidate the uncanon rubbish you want to insult your series with. There being toonforce in LoZ does not "invalidate" the games or series because the developers can throw out physics if they want to, it just ruins your arguments.

An addition of weight, e.g. 600 pounds max. At least we agree Gorons are 600 pounds or less.

You dont have a clue do you? Kain does not have to admire anyhing, your brain would have to take into focus everything to be able to see it, this can take seconds when Kain does it all AND makes his decisions in fractions of those seconds.

Yes there is a hellava lot that does that, a lot of stuff that points to no realistic or accurate physics being present, therefore no accurate math, sorry 😄

Kain only gets wounded caonically once, and theres a fat scar on his chest from it....

Raziel pushes stone blocks, your claiming random problems with LoK that LoZ has, its not going to work. Lok is a more realistic game, LoZ has toonforce and breaks in physics that cannot be ignored.

I can determine that its 1 of three things, mud, stone or dry earth. All 3 of those things would crack under 1000 tonnes.

It was a mausoleum iirc.

No you dont know anything of the sort, what you know is that when you dont have an argument and your ficiton is full of holes in your logic you dont like it. So you assume that the oppositions fiction has the same problems, this is not the case. So far youve gone as low to claim that blocks in Lok "should" have apprently floated or bounced off when placed...as I said, learn physics or common sense.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Twilight is not a vampire, its vastly different. Its a specific form in LoZ that has no connection to LoK. You may not think it matteres but anyone who knows anything about how Lok vampires only had a weakness to sunlight would think it does. Irrelevant, Ganondorf is not like Kain, hes not an entity close to Kain either, Ganondorof the "king of evil" vs Kain whos not evil. No vampire will see it more than just light, light that can harm twilight entities.

Theres a lot of them, their just like their version of a gas lamp.

But you have not played LoK so how would you have any idea what your talking about? (you dont), what your claiming is like me trying to argue that Ganondorf is a creature of light and good will towards all and that holy weapons in LoK arsenal will work well against him....

ok so your now telling and making up the story? not the game, because that does not say that at all.

yeh youve stopped actually argueing points, Zants got no strength feats.

As i said, broaden your understanding of toonforce. If something is physically unviable then you cant attempt to use math to determine it. "bouncing" soldiers is as said before, part of a gameplay mechanic used in not only LoK but DMC and GoW....your confusion and lack of experiance in a verses forum is understandable on this but you need to understand the different between a gameplay mechanic so that combos work and are fun for players and an actual sequence or FMV.

Show me...and arrows dont have to be reacted to if their reacting to the archer in question (likely, unless they cant see him). This old bone knawring again? you keep trying to claim that just because shards of a mirror that none of these characters have resisted (its powers have never attempted to attack them and theyve not touched them) that have affected a couple of entities, turning them into corrupted versions would be equel to mind control or soul devouring. Youve not convinced this at all, you have hardly made a case for it.

I suggest this is the only argument you be able to use, therefore I suggest your next post provides evidence that these shards did anything to Ganondorf or any loZ character.

The MS has never protected against any of these things, the only thing its been proven to repel is if Kain fires slow projectiles at him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dangoro has been countered as negative, Fyrus gets tripped, theres no good strength here. Bo can sumo wrestle, no evidence to suggest he was super strength. Apparently theres also other optional versions of this block, that are moved in exactly the same way, it just seems like a unimportant animation to me which is probably why physics were thrown out of the window.

Where was I when that happened?

How hard do you think it would be to rip his weight out from under him?

You're so daft, lol. The evidence is, you know, the fact that he is stated to have actually done it.

And yeah. Unfortunately for you, the fact that there is one pillar that is optional means absolutely nothing except that Link had to move two of them instead of three.

And hey, here's a thought. The surrounding walls appear to be of the same make as the ground Link and the pillar were standing on. When Link has thrown this pillar, the wall is largely unharmed, while the pillar breaks in two. So, if it being thrown didn't do any noticeable damage, why would lifting it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
You need quotes/evidence that he can react to lightning, until you show me this you cant claim it a feat. Since most of the forum who dont wank LoZ have seen your apprent evidence and countered it, I suggest you find something new.

Evidence is the fact that he did it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Refuted? quote where you refuted this? all I see is a fanboy desperatly whining about how bouncing Gorons and lolzy lack of physics still allow for accurate math based on these flawed lack of physics still works? 🙄

ugh3

I did it in the very same paragraph you're responding to. And one before that. Try reading. An insane concept, I know. I'd have had an easier time proposing the heliocentric solar system.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its going to invalidate the uncanon rubbish you want to insult your series with. There being toonforce in LoZ does not "invalidate" the games or series because the developers can throw out physics if they want to, it just ruins your arguments.

As I've said before. The only time it would invalidate me was if I said "Dangoro can bounce on lava."

Originally posted by Burning thought
An addition of weight, e.g. 600 pounds max. At least we agree Gorons are 600 pounds or less.

Impossible. 👆

Originally posted by Burning thought
You dont have a clue do you? Kain does not have to admire anyhing, your brain would have to take into focus everything to be able to see it, this can take seconds when Kain does it all AND makes his decisions in fractions of those seconds.

I just don't think you get it. All he has to recognize is something in front of him, and then he has to kill him.

Of course, we're still operating on an assumption with no evidence. I still think he plans out where he has to go, and since no enemy moves more than a few inches he doesn't have to do anything at all, really. Why do I assume this? Same reason you assume differently, it helps me.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes there is a hellava lot that does that, a lot of stuff that points to no realistic or accurate physics being present, therefore no accurate math, sorry 😄

I don't even know what this is replying to. But it's wrong. So, yeah.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain only gets wounded caonically once, and theres a fat scar on his chest from it....

It doesn't have to be canon to animate it. I mean, the pillar in question that we're discussing on the ground here is the optional one. The two that aren't optional are in the castle.

But we're talking about requiring detail, here. So, does Kain ever show any blood on his sword? Any scratches from the enemies? Any enemies have limbs chopped off? No? Well, shit. Looks like LoK is in the same damn boat.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel pushes stone blocks, your claiming random problems with LoK that LoZ has, its not going to work. Lok is a more realistic game, LoZ has toonforce and breaks in physics that cannot be ignored.

Pretty sure I've seen an image of him trying to carry two of them. Or it was Kain. Or I could just be wrong. I don't need this anymore, it's already obvious LoK is riddled with toonforce because details and events that could easily be programmed in were either not able to be programmed or skipped over. Toonforce runs rampant!

Though, I only need one instance of it to disprove everything. Why? Because that's how I want it to work! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by Burning thought
I can determine that its 1 of three things, mud, stone or dry earth. All 3 of those things would crack under 1000 tonnes.

What? That's ridiculous. OH! You're talking about the optional one!

Well, I've already told you why it can't be mud. But as usual you've chosen to ignore me. And I believe I mentioned that the pillar breaks before the surrounding material.

Though it's pretty impressive, cracking mud. And dirt.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It was a mausoleum iirc.

Figures.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No you dont know anything of the sort, what you know is that when you dont have an argument and your ficiton is full of holes in your logic you dont like it. So you assume that the oppositions fiction has the same problems, this is not the case. So far youve gone as low to claim that blocks in Lok "should" have apprently floated or bounced off when placed...as I said, learn physics or common sense.

Actually, it is the case. 😐 If you really cannot see that then there is no hope for you. But I believe we've known there was no hope for you for a while now.

And what? When did I say float or bounced off? I believe I said slide off, because if the image I saw was correct, it was one block on top of another being carried. And with the way they were being carried, the block on the top would never have stayed on.

If you can quote where I said float or bounce off, alright. Otherwise, you REALLY need to learn to read.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Where was I when that happened?

How hard do you think it would be to rip his weight out from under him?

You're so daft, lol. The evidence is, you know, the fact that he is stated to have actually done it.

And yeah. Unfortunately for you, the fact that there is one pillar that is optional means absolutely nothing except that Link had to move two of them instead of three.

And hey, here's a thought. The surrounding walls appear to be of the same make as the ground Link and the pillar were standing on. When Link has thrown this pillar, the wall is largely unharmed, while the pillar breaks in two. So, if it being thrown didn't do any noticeable damage, why would lifting it?

Evidence is the fact that he did it.

ugh3

I did it in the very same paragraph you're responding to. And one before that. Try reading. An insane concept, I know. I'd have had an easier time proposing the heliocentric solar system.

As I've said before. The only time it would invalidate me was if I said "Dangoro can bounce on lava."

Impossible. 👆

I just don't think you get it. All he has to recognize is something in front of him, and then he has to kill him.

Of course, we're still operating on an assumption with no evidence. I still think he plans out where he has to go, and since no enemy moves more than a few inches he doesn't have to do anything at all, really. Why do I assume this? Same reason you assume differently, it helps me.

I don't even know what this is replying to. But it's wrong. So, yeah.

It doesn't have to be canon to animate it. I mean, the pillar in question that we're discussing on the ground here is the optional one. The two that aren't optional are in the castle.

But we're talking about requiring detail, here. So, does Kain ever show any blood on his sword? Any scratches from the enemies? Any enemies have limbs chopped off? No? Well, shit. Looks like LoK is in the same damn boat.

Pretty sure I've seen an image of him trying to carry two of them. Or it was Kain. Or I could just be wrong. I don't need this anymore, it's already obvious LoK is riddled with toonforce because details and events that could easily be programmed in were either not able to be programmed or skipped over. Toonforce runs rampant!

Though, I only need one instance of it to disprove everything. Why? Because that's how I want it to work! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What? That's ridiculous. OH! You're talking about the optional one!

Well, I've already told you why it can't be mud. But as usual you've chosen to ignore me. And I believe I mentioned that the pillar breaks before the surrounding material.

Though it's pretty impressive, cracking mud. And dirt.

Figures.

Actually, it is the case. 😐 If you really cannot see that then there is no hope for you. But I believe we've known there was no hope for you for a while now.

And what? When did I say float or bounced off? I believe I said slide off, because if the image I saw was correct, it was one block on top of another being carried. And with the way they were being carried, the block on the top would never have stayed on.

If you can quote where I said float or bounce off, alright. Otherwise, you REALLY need to learn to read.

Kissing links ass is my guess.

Not hard at all because Links lightweight body and a few hundred pounds of boots did it. And tripping something up is not "ripping weight out form under it", even the smallest things can break someones balance.

Still no evidence he has super strength....his only "special trick to success" was to have piecies of iron strapped to his feet.

The fact all 3 animations are the same means the developers did not specifically make these blocks to claim Link has thousands of tonnes in strength.

Both should have had notable damage. Physics as I said were thrown out of the window, as is the weight/durability of materials.

No he didnt, he dodged/reacted to slow moving energy.

If thats supposed ot be something refuted then you had better do a better job, whining about how its not an argument is not refuting it.

And if you claimed LoZ physics especially in the that area are realistic.

Clearly not impossible.

Recognising entities, moving ones at that and the area takes humans seconds of brain processing time, thing is its constant so you woldnt recognise it. Unlike Kain who has been phased out of the world during teleport.

Ime not making an assumption however, your ignoring the fact the enemies move. Apprently he can precog as well now? lolz, your giving Kain new powerz....

Then why is it even being argued? show me the ones in the castle. And its the same thing.

No its not, because their uncanon 🙂 , this is just gameplay mechanics/graphics.

Yeh your a funny little troll, claiming toonforce for anything regardless of your knowledge or information on the actual area. Desperate to try and make comparisons 😆 , all of your attempts are wrong.

I dont recall the Pillar breaking, this may be all the evidence i need to suggest its a soft and not so dense substence, and that its not heavy at all.

I think everyone who does not have some overzealous love for LoZ has proven with evidence that your case has fallen flat. No block was carried, LoK has more realsitic physics remember?

The guys who little eyes cant determine between pushing or carrying is telling someone to learn to read? lolz...get some glasses little one 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kissing links ass is my guess.

That's ridiculous. Link isn't a real person! You're so silly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not hard at all because Links lightweight body and a few hundred pounds of boots did it. And tripping something up is not "ripping weight out form under it", even the smallest things can break someones balance.

Congratulations, you've got something right. Though it isn't Dangoro, it's Fyrus.

You've once again overlooked the fact that Dangoro cannot weigh 600 pounds or less. It's actually pretty absurd to even suggest he weighs less than 1,000 pounds considering he's about twice the size of any man on Earth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Still no evidence he has super strength....his only "special trick to success" was to have piecies of iron strapped to his feet.

Not Iron. Have to be too heavy to be Iron.

And then, he walks with them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The fact all 3 animations are the same means the developers did not specifically make these blocks to claim Link has thousands of tonnes in strength.

That's some of the worst logic I've ever seen. Especially since it also means that the smaller stones in the game weigh the same as the stones you require the Silver gauntlets to lift.

How do you do it? Every time I think I've hit your rock bottom, you pull a shovel out of your ass and dig even deeper.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Both should have had notable damage. Physics as I said were thrown out of the window, as is the weight/durability of materials.

Right, because the fact that they didn't means what you want it to mean. Not gonna work like that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No he didnt, he dodged/reacted to slow moving energy.

Slowed down for gameplay is what I believe is the current argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If thats supposed ot be something refuted then you had better do a better job, whining about how its not an argument is not refuting it.

Except I didn't whine about how it's not an argument. Where are you seeing this stuff? All you've done is whine about me apparently whining, and have not actually even acknowledged the argument.

And don't give me that "it's not worth responding to" nonsense. You aren't worth responding to, but what have I been doing for the past few pages now?

Originally posted by Burning thought
And if you claimed LoZ physics especially in the that area are realistic.

Incorrect, sir.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Clearly not impossible.

See the last time I acknowledged this argument which was also not worth responding to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Recognising entities, moving ones at that and the area takes humans seconds of brain processing time, thing is its constant so you woldnt recognise it. Unlike Kain who has been phased out of the world during teleport.

I'll just have to ask you to prove this then. And prove that he hasn't just preplanned his path, which you have not done and cannot do.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime not making an assumption however, your ignoring the fact the enemies move. Apprently he can precog as well now? lolz, your giving Kain new powerz....

Sure, and they don't move far enough.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then why is it even being argued? show me the ones in the castle. And its the same thing.

Don't know what you're talking about here either. One in the castle is the same pillar.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No its not, because their uncanon 🙂 , this is just gameplay mechanics/graphics.

Except that Kain has to run from place to place, and he has never tripped. Remember, that because of you, we have to consider pointless details not being included and what it means. Clearly, realism is not an intention in LoK.

Come to think of it, does he produce footprints? Do enemies produce a pile of ash when burned? Does he get blood on his sword when slashing a boss? No? Very interesting.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh your a funny little troll, claiming toonforce for anything regardless of your knowledge or information on the actual area. Desperate to try and make comparisons 😆 , all of your attempts are wrong.

Yeh your a funny little troll, claiming toonforce for anything regardless of your knowledge or information on the actual area. Desperate to try and make arguments 😆 , all of your attempts have failed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont recall the Pillar breaking, this may be all the evidence i need to suggest its a soft and not so dense substence, and that its not heavy at all.

Don't recall density having anything to do with hardness. Nor do I see how it disproves the weight of the pillar as opposed to proving the hardness of the surrounding material. Wait, is that another thing that's supposed to work because you want it to?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I think everyone who does not have some overzealous love for LoZ has proven with evidence that your case has fallen flat. No block was carried, LoK has more realsitic physics remember?

No, actually, I don't. It lacks pointless details. It's clear to me Nosgoth doesn't even have gravity, because Kain doesn't produce footprints!

Originally posted by Burning thought
The guys who little eyes cant determine between pushing or carrying is telling someone to learn to read? lolz...get some glasses little one 🙂

I have glasses. Repeat the fifth grade.

And, I notice that you can't quote where I said floating or bouncing. Ahaha, you are so daft.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That's ridiculous. Link isn't a real person! You're so silly.

Congratulations, you've got something right. Though it isn't Dangoro, it's Fyrus.

You've once again overlooked the fact that Dangoro cannot weigh 600 pounds or less. It's actually pretty absurd to even suggest he weighs less than 1,000 pounds considering he's about twice the size of any man on Earth.

Not Iron. Have to be too heavy to be Iron.

And then, he walks with them.

That's some of the worst logic I've ever seen. Especially since it also means that the smaller stones in the game weigh the same as the stones you require the Silver gauntlets to lift.

How do you do it? Every time I think I've hit your rock bottom, you pull a shovel out of your ass and dig even deeper.

Right, because the fact that they didn't means what you want it to mean. Not gonna work like that.

Slowed down for gameplay is what I believe is the current argument.

Except I didn't whine about how it's not an argument. Where are you seeing this stuff? All you've done is whine about me apparently whining, and have not actually even acknowledged the argument.

And don't give me that "it's not worth responding to" nonsense. You aren't worth responding to, but what have I been doing for the past few pages now?

Incorrect, sir.

See the last time I acknowledged this argument which was also not worth responding to.

I'll just have to ask you to prove this then. And prove that he hasn't just preplanned his path, which you have not done and cannot do.

Sure, and they don't move far enough.

Don't know what you're talking about here either. One in the castle is the same pillar.

Except that Kain has to run from place to place, and he has never tripped. Remember, that because of you, we have to consider pointless details not being included and what it means. Clearly, realism is not an intention in LoK.

Come to think of it, does he produce footprints? Do enemies produce a pile of ash when burned? Does he get blood on his sword when slashing a boss? No? Very interesting.

Yeh your a funny little troll, claiming toonforce for anything regardless of your knowledge or information on the actual area. Desperate to try and make arguments 😆 , all of your attempts have failed.

Don't recall density having anything to do with hardness. Nor do I see how it disproves the weight of the pillar as opposed to proving the hardness of the surrounding material. Wait, is that another thing that's supposed to work because you want it to?

No, actually, I don't. It lacks pointless details. It's clear to me Nosgoth doesn't even have gravity, because Kain doesn't produce footprints!

I have glasses. Repeat the fifth grade.

And, I notice that you can't quote where I said floating or bouncing. Ahaha, you are so daft.

Who said I ment that physically or literally even?

Hes also not made of the same things as any man on earth either, his bodies composition is different. And stop claiming "pretty absurd", the guy bounces off lava for christs sake.

The game says iron, most translations claim iron or something of similiar weight.

You would know about digging deeper being in a pit miles below mine. Although tbh, theres nothing wrong with that logic at all, if their all the same animation its clear the developers didnt attempt to make this some special cinematic where Link does a super strength feat you claim he does, GoW and DMC do those when its obvious their trying t show strength (dont give me that "zomg its an older game!" rubbish).

The fact that they didnt means you cant use your daft fanon math, its flawed in so many ways its laughable.

Thats not even an argument, thats a baseless assumption that the fans have come up with, as I said, fanon. 🙂

Youve been responding to real arguments, not desperate cries for help and attempts at downplaying LoK based on trying to compare something in fictions (thats not even there).

He cant pre-plan something unless he has precog, teleporting isnt a list of random things he wants do, his teleport is fast but not quick enough to freeze movements.

Why would Kain trip? your trolling random BS again.

Ok this is just an upset fanboys "NO YOU!!" 🙄

If it breaks on mud/dry earth then its density is hardly anything ,its a weak and light rock if it breaks on impact AND does not make a smear out of what it strikes.

Then put the damn things on, maybe then you will see what a joke of an "argument" your making.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Who said I ment that physically or literally even?

Well, the only thing left is metaphorically, and I don't see a comparison in there.

Oh wait! It was a joke! Well, now I feel stupid. 😮

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes also not made of the same things as any man on earth either, his bodies composition is different. And stop claiming "pretty absurd", the guy bounces off lava for christs sake.

Yeah, his body's composition is rock. Which is, you know, heavier than muscle and fat, and other things that people are made of.

He bounces off of lava because of toonforce. See what you're doing now? It's called being dumb. He bounces off lava because he's light, but the game doesn't have realistic physics. With toonforce applied, he can be as heavy as Earth and still do it.

Of course he's not light. And making this assertion is pretty absurd. Pretty absurd, is making this assertion. Pretty making this is assertion absurd. Hmm...doesn't work that way.

PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD

Originally posted by Burning thought
The game says iron, most translations claim iron or something of similiar weight.

A key word there is translations. And once again, it is far too heavy a material to be iron.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You would know about digging deeper being in a pit miles below mine. Although tbh, theres nothing wrong with that logic at all, if their all the same animation its clear the developers didnt attempt to make this some special cinematic where Link does a super strength feat you claim he does, GoW and DMC do those when its obvious their trying t show strength (dont give me that "zomg its an older game!" rubbish).

Why shouldn't I give you that "rubbish" when there is no reason for it to be rubbish?

And right, their intention was not to prove that it was heavy, despite it's PRETTY ABSURD size and requiring a strength enhancing item to lift it.

But still, PRETTY ABSURD logic is PRETTY ABSURD.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The fact that they didnt means you cant use your daft fanon math, its flawed in so many ways its laughable.

There is no reason to believe such an assumption.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not even an argument, thats a baseless assumption that the fans have come up with, as I said, fanon. 🙂

In order to be baseless, there must not be a reason to make the leap of logic. The reason that keeps this assumption from being baseless is that a player cannot react to lightning. That's why we get hit by bullets and animals when they try to kill us.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Youve been responding to real arguments, not desperate cries for help and attempts at downplaying LoK based on trying to compare something in fictions (thats not even there).

...am I making posts that I don't know about? I haven't seen any real arguments lately, and you keep responding to words I don't recall saying.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He cant pre-plan something unless he has precog, teleporting isnt a list of random things he wants do, his teleport is fast but not quick enough to freeze movements.

So Kain doesn't have the ability to think ahead, eh? Interesting, then his reaction time is totally worthless.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why would Kain trip? your trolling random BS again.

1. Because he's bipedal (which really doesn't matter, because even quadrupedal creatures trip).
2. He isn't perfect.
3. It's real.

Link doesn't trip, but that doesn't matter. The absence of the pillar tipping over has already proven it's not real. Pointless, unprogrammed details, remember?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok this is just an upset fanboys "NO YOU!!" 🙄

Not sure which one you are talking about. But, NOU!

Originally posted by Burning thought
If it breaks on mud/dry earth then its density is hardly anything ,its a weak and light rock if it breaks on impact AND does not make a smear out of what it strikes.

Except for the fact that density does not have to mean anything when it comes to hardness or whichever property is resistance to fractures. Especially when 1,000 tons is thrown against a lot of apparently much harder material.

And for the fourth time, it cannot be mud. I'll bet anyone a dollar that I have to say it another two times at least.

And I like how the possibility of it being other rock when out the window at this new development. So now it's just dry earth, eh?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then put the damn things on, maybe then you will see what a joke of an "argument" your making.

I wear them all the time, you daft fool. That's how I can spot your bullshit from all the way at the top of the hole you've been digging with those shovels you inexplicably pull from your cavity. I don't even want to think about the space you have in there, I'm sure the amount of it is PRETTY ABSURD.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well, the only thing left is metaphorically, and I don't see a comparison in there.

Oh wait! It was a joke! Well, now I feel stupid. 😮

Yeah, his body's composition is rock. Which is, you know, heavier than muscle and fat, and other things that people are made of.

He bounces off of lava because of toonforce. See what you're doing now? It's called being dumb. He bounces off lava because he's light, but the game doesn't have realistic physics. With toonforce applied, he can be as heavy as Earth and still do it.

Of course he's not light. And making this assertion is pretty absurd. Pretty absurd, is making this assertion. Pretty making this is assertion absurd. Hmm...doesn't work that way.

PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD PRETTY ABSURD

A key word there is translations. And once again, it is far too heavy a material to be iron.

Why shouldn't I give you that "rubbish" when there is no reason for it to be rubbish?

And right, their intention was not to prove that it was heavy, despite it's PRETTY ABSURD size and requiring a strength enhancing item to lift it.

But still, PRETTY ABSURD logic is PRETTY ABSURD.

There is no reason to believe such an assumption.

In order to be baseless, there must not be a reason to make the leap of logic. The reason that keeps this assumption from being baseless is that a player cannot react to lightning. That's why we get hit by bullets and animals when they try to kill us.

...am I making posts that I don't know about? I haven't seen any real arguments lately, and you keep responding to words I don't recall saying.

So Kain doesn't have the ability to think ahead, eh? Interesting, then his reaction time is totally worthless.

1. Because he's bipedal (which really doesn't matter, because even quadrupedal creatures trip).
2. He isn't perfect.
3. It's real.

Link doesn't trip, but that doesn't matter. The absence of the pillar tipping over has already proven it's not real. Pointless, unprogrammed details, remember?

Not sure which one you are talking about. But, NOU!

Except for the fact that density does not have to mean anything when it comes to hardness or whichever property is resistance to fractures. Especially when 1,000 tons is thrown against a lot of apparently much harder material.

And for the fourth time, it cannot be mud. I'll bet anyone a dollar that I have to say it another two times at least.

And I like how the possibility of it being other rock when out the window at this new development. So now it's just dry earth, eh?

I wear them all the time, you daft fool. That's how I can spot your bullshit from all the way at the top of the hole you've been digging with those shovels you inexplicably pull from your cavity. I don't even want to think about the space you have in there, I'm sure the amount of it is PRETTY ABSURD.

Heavier than metal? I doubt it, you dont have a clue what kind of rock, and theres nothing that claims their bodies made of rock, only thing I have read at all about their body composition is the Zelda wiki which points out the rocky outcroppings growing on their heads. Other than that, their flesh.

Ok, your getting tired maybe you should have a nap youngen, learn how to debate then get back to me rather than spamming rubbish. The only thing that makes sense is that theres so much "absurd" in your posts.

The only weight that we can gauge it by is the 600 pounds estimate from the weight puzzle Scenario mentioned earlier in the thread.

The player cant react to bullets, energy beams or jets but you can dodge all these things and more in games without the display being a slow moving orb. Your claim that players cant react to it, is not an argument or evidence that it is still lightning.

You? not sure youve ever made a real argument son.

You claim that a pillar thats too heavy and should damage the ground beneath links feet, topple over because of weight or sink link into the ground are all pointless details apprently? 😆 , it turns out that anything thats refuted the whole use of math for the pillar which is pretty much everything about it is a "pointless detail", childish again 🙂

1000 tons based on fanon math from flawed logic and a lack of physics based facts. I loled, then I loled again....1000 tonnes that cant break the ground beneath Links feet, or the impact area it lands on in which itself apprently shatters. Clearly its light, because if you knew anything about physics or more importantly force the jouls link has to push into the object would have to be around 1k tonnes like you wank on about which means the rock has to be able to take around that much force or more...but....it shatters 😆

mud, dry earth, rock whats the importance? none of these things that the ground can be made of can take 1k tonnes landing on it. But this is not the case, its probably at best a ton if that.

You must have them on the wrong way round, the absurd BS is your posts silly, the ones that are reasonable, clever and have evidence are my ones 🙄 should have gone to specsavers 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
Heavier than metal? I doubt it, you dont have a clue what kind of rock, and theres nothing that claims their bodies made of rock, only thing I have read at all about their body composition is the Zelda wiki which points out the rocky outcroppings growing on their heads. Other than that, their flesh.

I don't think every metal is heavier than rock. A lot are used so commonly because they are stronger and lighter than rock. And considering his amount of rock will easily be more than the metal on the boots (which he is wearing plenty of with his own armor, as well).

That is because you haven't played the games. There is a quote in I believe OoT that we used to determine this. You've seen it, just like everything else we've ever used to support ourselves. You probably just ignored it, surprise surprise.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok, your getting tired maybe you should have a nap youngen, learn how to debate then get back to me rather than spamming rubbish. The only thing that makes sense is that theres so much "absurd" in your posts.

Way to once again not acknowledge when you've been thrashed in the hopes that I'll not notice and move on.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The only weight that we can gauge it by is the 600 pounds estimate from the weight puzzle Scenario mentioned earlier in the thread.

Which is PRETTY ABSURD, because Dangoro cannot weigh 600 pounds. See the previous post.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The player cant react to bullets, energy beams or jets but you can dodge all these things and more in games without the display being a slow moving orb. Your claim that players cant react to it, is not an argument or evidence that it is still lightning.

And in what kinds of games? Later games, perhaps?

I had something else to say, but I forgot about it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You? not sure youve ever made a real argument son.

This isn't some pitiful attempt at allowing you to eventually say to me "Who's your daddy?" is it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
You claim that a pillar thats too heavy and should damage the ground beneath links feet, topple over because of weight or sink link into the ground are all pointless details apprently? 😆 , it turns out that anything thats refuted the whole use of math for the pillar which is pretty much everything about it is a "pointless detail", childish again 🙂

Well, yeah. If you were capable of reading you would have seen by now that it actually makes pretty good sense when talking about the pillar supposedly needing to topple over. Cracks in the ground being negligible also make sense when taking in to consideration that a game cannot fully simulate real life. Some things have to be excluded. Things like blood on the sword, footprints, wounds, and etc. All things that LoK also lacks.

You know where you're at? I believe that is 38. Congratulations.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1000 tons based on fanon math from flawed logic and a lack of physics based facts. I loled, then I loled again....1000 tonnes that cant break the ground beneath Links feet, or the impact area it lands on in which itself apprently shatters. Clearly its light, because if you knew anything about physics or more importantly force the jouls link has to push into the object would have to be around 1k tonnes like you wank on about which means the rock has to be able to take around that much force or more...but....it shatters 😆

What are you talking about? The pillar splits in two, yeah, I believe I told you that. If the surrounding material broke, then congratulations, it took a sudden and jarring impact to break off pieces, no cracks has been refuted.

Originally posted by Burning thought
mud, dry earth, rock whats the importance? none of these things that the ground can be made of can take 1k tonnes landing on it. But this is not the case, its probably at best a ton if that.

Cannot be mud. Six times. Too bad nobody took that bet.

I'm sure specific kinds of rock can. And apparently whatever kind the surrounding material is is a type that has this ability.

Can't crack dirt.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You must have them on the wrong way round, the absurd BS is your posts silly, the ones that are reasonable, clever and have evidence are my ones 🙄 should have gone to specsavers 🙂

Nah, pretty sure I have them right. The lengthy ends are meant to rest on your ears, right?

Your name isn't MooCowofJustice, you big silly.

I recently received a picture in a chain email titled "I will never complain about my job again" that kind of goes along with the last thing I said in my previous post.

Edit: This is not pretty. Anyone who clicks this be warned.
http://i51.tinypic.com/34sgtw0.jpg

Originally posted by Burning thought
Twilight is not a vampire, its vastly different. Its a specific form in LoZ that has no connection to LoK. You may not think it matteres but anyone who knows anything about how Lok vampires only had a weakness to sunlight would think it does. Irrelevant, Ganondorf is not like Kain, hes not an entity close to Kain either, Ganondorof the "king of evil" vs Kain whos not evil. No vampire will see it more than just light, light that can harm twilight entities.

Nah, vampires are cursed by the Hylden, while Twili are cursed by the goddesses. Seems similar enough to me. Both are cursed by dark magic, though Kain is actually a product of necromancy and the heart of darkness. The Twili can't stand the world bathed in light, and thus make do with the weakened light of twilight, while vampires can't stand sunlight and must make do with weakened sunlight caused by smog. Since the life force of the gods has such a great effect on darkness and dark magic and evil, there should be no question that it would affect a vampire, especially Kain. Kain even had some measure of corruption in him thanks to Nupraptor. All that evil, he's bound to be affected.


Theres a lot of them, their just like their version of a gas lamp.

Can you prove this claim? There are only two shown, they are stated to be like the sun, and they are used by the Twilight Realm's dieties.


But you have not played LoK so how would you have any idea what your talking about? (you dont), what your claiming is like me trying to argue that Ganondorf is a creature of light and good will towards all and that holy weapons in LoK arsenal will work well against him....

I have watched entire walkthroughs of Soul Reaver, Defiance, and most of Blood Omen 2. The only reason I haven't watched Blood Omen in full is because the whole thing isn't on youtube. I'm watching Soul Reaver 2 right now. So don't try that with me. Kain is an obvious villain protagonist, like Kratos or Alex Mercer. Just because they achieved good ends does not make either of them good. Now, I don't know what you're talking about with Ganondorf, as he's a monster just like Kain is, and if any holy weapons existed in LoK they would likely work against him.


ok so your now telling and making up the story? not the game, because that does not say that at all.

What? Just...what? I cannot make heads or tails of that statement. The video I posted outright states that the Light Spirits sealed away the Dark Interloper's magic, so I did not make anything up there. If you're talking about the thing with Link, did you even watch the video? Here, watch it again and start from 1:00 this time.

YouTube video

It's not Link, it's an Interloper.


yeh youve stopped actually argueing points, Zants got no strength feats.

No one has shown any resistence to blades, though, so I don't see why that matters. Of course, he could always just do this:

YouTube video
1:36

By the time Zant is done with LoK, it will look like this:

YouTube video

0:55, that curse also removes theirs powers, and Zant outright states Ganondorf can do it, too.


As i said, broaden your understanding of toonforce. If something is physically unviable then you cant attempt to use math to determine it. "bouncing" soldiers is as said before, part of a gameplay mechanic used in not only LoK but DMC and GoW....your confusion and lack of experiance in a verses forum is understandable on this but you need to understand the different between a gameplay mechanic so that combos work and are fun for players and an actual sequence or FMV.

Your example is a poor one, as DMC is like the poster game for coolforce and GoW never even tried to follow physics. Your definition of toonforce appears to be anything you don't think should happen and want to dismiss. I understand the different between a game mechanic and a cutscene, but I'm wondering if you do. Tell me, which one is the dimensional teleport?


Show me...and arrows dont have to be reacted to if their reacting to the archer in question (likely, unless they cant see him). This old bone knawring again? you keep trying to claim that just because shards of a mirror that none of these characters have resisted (its powers have never attempted to attack them and theyve not touched them) that have affected a couple of entities, turning them into corrupted versions would be equel to mind control or soul devouring. Youve not convinced this at all, you have hardly made a case for it.

YouTube video

4:00 and onwards. And why are you so against the Fused Shadows and Mirror shards? I've already shown you the evidence (Darbus' and Yeta's transformations, along with Link, Zant and Ganondorf under the same circumstances remaining unaffected) so why won't you accept it?


I suggest this is the only argument you be able to use, therefore I suggest your next post provides evidence that these shards did anything to Ganondorf or any loZ character.

'k

YouTube video

3:00, establishing that Darbus was affected and transformed, and also that the Fused Shadow was causing volcanic eruptions.

YouTube video

7:30, the result of the transformation and Link's exposure.

YouTube video

0:40, Ganondorf's exposure.

YouTube video

0:40, effects of Mirror, and you can even see Link's reflection.

Further Link exposure at 5:00.

YouTube video

3:25, Ganondorf's exposure.


The MS has never protected against any of these things, the only thing its been proven to repel is if Kain fires slow projectiles at him.

YouTube video

YouTube video

1:35-2:30

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't think every metal is heavier than rock. A lot are used so commonly because they are stronger and lighter than rock. And considering his amount of rock will easily be more than the metal on the boots (which he is wearing plenty of with his own armor, as well).

That is because you haven't played the games. There is a quote in I believe OoT that we used to determine this. You've seen it, just like everything else we've ever used to support ourselves. You probably just ignored it, surprise surprise.

Ive taken out the childish trolling and BS you post with over and over, as I said, learn to debate but ill answer this piece as its the only bit that may have some roots in an argument "sigh".

But not necesserily as much as what frames the human body.

You belive? ive seen anything you have tried to claim as proof for this and its never been proven, the best I think youve tried is finding quotes that are ambigious and call them "rock people" which does not define their bodies or how much rock is on them. Based on appearance and the Zeldapedia, the only rock is outcroppings, small outcroppings on the arm and head. Which makes sense because they roll to attack, using the rocks on their backs as weapons. Not their soft bodies.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Nah, vampires are cursed by the Hylden, while Twili are cursed by the goddesses. Seems similar enough to me. Both are cursed by dark magic, though Kain is actually a product of necromancy and the heart of darkness. The Twili can't stand the world bathed in light, and thus make do with the weakened light of twilight, while vampires can't stand sunlight and must make do with weakened sunlight caused by smog. Since the life force of the gods has such a great effect on darkness and dark magic and evil, there should be no question that it would affect a vampire, especially Kain. Kain even had some measure of corruption in him thanks to Nupraptor. All that evil, he's bound to be affected.

Can you prove this claim? There are only two shown, they are stated to be like the sun, and they are used by the Twilight Realm's dieties.

I have watched entire walkthroughs of Soul Reaver, Defiance, and most of Blood Omen 2. The only reason I haven't watched Blood Omen in full is because the whole thing isn't on youtube. I'm watching Soul Reaver 2 right now. So don't try that with me. Kain is an obvious villain protagonist, like Kratos or Alex Mercer. Just because they achieved good ends does not make either of them good. Now, I don't know what you're talking about with Ganondorf, as he's a monster just like Kain is, and if any holy weapons existed in LoK they would likely work against him.

What? Just...what? I cannot make heads or tails of that statement. The video I posted outright states that the Light Spirits sealed away the Dark Interloper's magic, so I did not make anything up there. If you're talking about the thing with Link, did you even watch the video? Here, watch it again and start from 1:00 this time.

YouTube video

It's not Link, it's an Interloper.

No one has shown any resistence to blades, though, so I don't see why that matters. Of course, he could always just do this:

YouTube video
1:36

By the time Zant is done with LoK, it will look like this:

YouTube video

0:55, that curse also removes theirs powers, and Zant outright states Ganondorf can do it, too.

Your example is a poor one, as DMC is like the poster game for coolforce and GoW never even tried to follow physics. Your definition of toonforce appears to be anything you don't think should happen and want to dismiss. I understand the different between a game mechanic and a cutscene, but I'm wondering if you do. Tell me, which one is the dimensional teleport?

YouTube video

4:00 and onwards. And why are you so against the Fused Shadows and Mirror shards? I've already shown you the evidence (Darbus' and Yeta's transformations, along with Link, Zant and Ganondorf under the same circumstances remaining unaffected) so why won't you accept it?

'k

YouTube video

3:00, establishing that Darbus was affected and transformed, and also that the Fused Shadow was causing volcanic eruptions.

YouTube video

7:30, the result of the transformation and Link's exposure.

YouTube video

0:40, Ganondorf's exposure.

YouTube video

0:40, effects of Mirror, and you can even see Link's reflection.

Further Link exposure at 5:00.

YouTube video

3:25, Ganondorf's exposure.

YouTube video

YouTube video

1:35-2:30

What? similiar? your kidding right? your saying two completly different curses by two completly different races in two COMPLETELY different universes is similiar? 🙄 your desperatly trying to use these spirits because you think their the only useful weapon you have, twili and Vampires are not alike, different races, different weaknesses. Its almost like claiming Twili are going to get an instatiable bloodthrist in this matchup all of a sudden just because their "curses" are apprently the same.....

Ok theres not a lot of them, I watched a vid with something that looked like ltos of sols but it was just twilight stuff on the ground. Regardless their nothing like the sun at all, watching:

YouTube video

Is that a sol that Link is running about over his head? kinda like a dim glowing light bulb?

Ive done the same for loZ, ive yet to see 1000 ton Link, lightning speed Ganondorf or any great light from the light spirits. Theres no "evil" happening there, sorry.

I watched it all and you dont see any "magic" being sealed, only them telling you what they did. You cant show them actually doing it, how they did it etc because this is a story that their telling link, were not watching actual events either, its not even a flashback.

A blade, like the tip of Raziels claws that Kain was immune to is only extra PSI, Kains immune to it and most of Lok have ways of avoiding slashing attacks or are too strong for it to be of any use to Zant.

Hes never used it on anyone but Midna, and within the twilight realm.

Zant? you mean the guy whos dead from a few arrows? lol....

hardly, DMC and GoW as i said have a lot of gameplay mechanics similiar to LoK, and thats all they are, on the other hand. Thei actualy canon FMV's like LoK show objects breaking when they should, and details such as debris and rubble so despite all 3 universes having more powers and supernatual abilities than LoZ which allows them to bend these rules, they still remain to the extent they should. Dimentional teleport is neither, its a canon ability, its neither a "mechanic" for the fun of the game nor a cutscene.

Ok so that really is gameplay mechanics on Ganon, furthermore the archer is right in front of him so I wouldnt be surprised if anyone could attempt a worthy dodge from there. Youve shown me a couple of these creatures actuall touching or absorbing the shards, and having an effect. Ganon, link etc do not touch them in the same form as they touched those two and in Ganons case, he was in control of the twilight and evil already.

Ive seen this, it does not help your case and do you know why? He says Darbus actually touched the object in question, not that we see this happen but if I take that as evidence then you showing Link not even putting a finger on it.

Thats not the twilight piecies youve been telling me about, thats the full helmet thats hes breaking and it seems powerless, I can see clearly the dark energy coming from the mirror shards but theres nothing coming from the helmet.

But Blizzeda or w/e its called was in front of the mirror, not sure if thats the same as what happened to Darbus, this looked like the mirror was just affecting Blizzeda into loving it. Ime wondering if the mirror shards have much to do with it, this thing didnt touch the mirror, Darbus did and was transformed. It seems theres just a type of corruption, but this brings us back to the "different universes" thing again, where this type of twilight corruption does not account for mind control, which is completly different, soul powrs which are not even displayed here. Different powers, if Lok were using corruption solely then you "may" have a point but they dont.

Ganondorf did not resist anything, he was in pain and it seems the completed mirror is used to transport him. I know this scene, its not resistance to any of the 3 powers lok use.

Fine ok, I buy that the MS can reverse when giving an extremely long cooldown transformation based on Ganons magic . How is this going to help Link? its not passive protection....

I'll accept your concessions, BT. Don't blame me for what my posts became. I respond to what you give me, so when you ignore my points in favor of making some ridiculous comment and trying to wriggle your way out of a tough situation, that is all I need to reply to.

Until you started quitting my posts were a neat blend of logic and humor. 👆

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive taken out the childish trolling and BS you post with over and over, as I said, learn to debate but ill answer this piece as its the only bit that may have some roots in an argument "sigh".

But not necesserily as much as what frames the human body.

You belive? ive seen anything you have tried to claim as proof for this and its never been proven, the best I think youve tried is finding quotes that are ambigious and call them "rock people" which does not define their bodies or how much rock is on them. Based on appearance and the Zeldapedia, the only rock is outcroppings, small outcroppings on the arm and head. Which makes sense because they roll to attack, using the rocks on their backs as weapons. Not their soft bodies.

Except for the fact that it's blatantly obvious whatever type of rock he is made of is very heavy.

Yes, I believe. Way to harp on two words.

Except for the fact that their physiology is not like a humans at all. They can digest rocks, do not need to breath, and do not appear to be flexible at all.

Body isn't soft. Link can stab it and sparks fly, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by Burning thought Ive taken out the childish trolling and BS you post with over and over, as I said, learn to debate but ill answer this piece as its the only bit that may have some roots in an argument "sigh".

Ignoring entire posts again, are you, BT?


But not necesserily as much as what frames the human body.

Dangoro has more metal on one arm than there is in the entirety of the Iron Boots. And yet...


You belive? ive seen anything you have tried to claim as proof for this and its never been proven, the best I think youve tried is finding quotes that are ambigious and call them "rock people" which does not define their bodies or how much rock is on them. Based on appearance and the Zeldapedia, the only rock is outcroppings, small outcroppings on the arm and head. Which makes sense because they roll to attack, using the rocks on their backs as weapons. Not their soft bodies.

Please. The rocky outsropping make up at least half of their body, and moreso on Dangoro, who's also wearing armor.

As you can see, his entire backside is rock, and when curled up you can barely see anything that isn't. That much rock and metal makes it impossible for Dangoro to weigh anywhere near 600 pounds.


What? similiar? your kidding right? your saying two completly different curses by two completly different races in two COMPLETELY different universes is similiar? 🙄 your desperatly trying to use these spirits because you think their the only useful weapon you have, twili and Vampires are not alike, different races, different weaknesses. Its almost like claiming Twili are going to get an instatiable bloodthrist in this matchup all of a sudden just because their "curses" are apprently the same.....

Quite similar. Both the result of a curse and dark magic, with similar weaknesses. Both of them are demonstratably weak to holy and light based weapons and magic (such as the life force of the gods or sunlight glyph). Actually, it's more like claiming that twilight won't affect Kain because he's resisted similar before, when it's actually COMPLETELY different. Isn't that right? If twilight is so different, why do you think Kain can resist it when he's never faced anything like it? As I see it, you can have two choices here:
1. Twilight and dark magic/vampires are too different, and thus Kain is affected by twilight since he's never resisted it.
2. Twilight and dark magic/vampires are similar, and thus Kain is affected by the life force of the gods.
You can't have it both ways, as claiming that Kain could resist twilight would be admitting they're similar enough for the Light Spirits to work, and claiming that the Light Spirits only affect twilight would be admitting that they're too different for Kain's resistances to magic and such to work. So Kain can either get incinerated by Light Spirits or transformed by twilight, and I'll just give you the luxury of choosing which one.


Ok theres not a lot of them, I watched a vid with something that looked like ltos of sols but it was just twilight stuff on the ground. Regardless their nothing like the sun at all, watching:

[video]

Is that a sol that Link is running about over his head? kinda like a dim glowing light bulb?

Yup, the one lifting the Dark Fog, powering solar devices, removing the Shadow Beast curse, and infusing the Master Sword with light is indeed a Sol. Those things are like the sun, you know.


Ive done the same for loZ, ive yet to see 1000 ton Link, lightning speed Ganondorf or any great light from the light spirits. Theres no "evil" happening there, sorry.

I guess you're just not looking hard enough, then. I can show them to you, if you wish.

YouTube video

0:5 and 4:15, if you must see.

Now, I've never heard of lightning speed Ganondorf, but here's the Light Spirit thing again.

YouTube video

3:10, there ya go. If you want me to show you kain being evil, I can do that, too.
YouTube video
YouTube video

Oh, look, damning the entire realm because of your own selfish desires. This alone is reason enough to consider him evil. But this right just puts him over the edge:
YouTube video

😆


I watched it all and you dont see any "magic" being sealed, only them telling you what they did. You cant show them actually doing it, how they did it etc because this is a story that their telling link, were not watching actual events either, its not even a flashback.

Not sure what you're watching, but that Fused Shadow sinking into the ground is pretty hard to miss. And the Interlopers could't do a thing about it, either.


A blade, like the tip of Raziels claws that Kain was immune to is only extra PSI, Kains immune to it and most of Lok have ways of avoiding slashing attacks or are too strong for it to be of any use to Zant.
Hes never used it on anyone but Midna, and within the twilight realm.

Eh, the blades aren't even the best he has, so it doesn't matter. He can always just curse people like he did Midna and kill them with twilight while they struggle without powers.


Zant? you mean the guy whos dead from a few arrows? lol....

Zant. The guy who will impify LoK, yes.


hardly, DMC and GoW as i said have a lot of gameplay mechanics similiar to LoK, and thats all they are, on the other hand. Thei actualy canon FMV's like LoK show objects breaking when they should, and details such as debris and rubble so despite all 3 universes having more powers and supernatual abilities than LoZ which allows them to bend these rules, they still remain to the extent they should. Dimentional teleport is neither, its a canon ability, its neither a "mechanic" for the fun of the game nor a cutscene.

As I said before, DMCand GoW are two are worst possible examples you could have picked, as neither one gives physics any nods at all, noe much indication that they're really all there. Whereas LoK has things like this:
YouTube video
6:12


Ok so that really is gameplay mechanics on Ganon, furthermore the archer is right in front of him so I wouldnt be surprised if anyone could attempt a worthy dodge from there. Youve shown me a couple of these creatures actuall touching or absorbing the shards, and having an effect. Ganon, link etc do not touch them in the same form as they touched those two and in Ganons case, he was in control of the twilight and evil already.

No, it's a canon ability that isn't a mechanic for fun or a cutscene. He dodges arrows point blank, and Link gives no indication of when he'll shoot. Link and Ganondorf show no reaction to the Fused Shadows or Mirror of twilight because they are resistant, how many time will I tell you this, I wonder. And you have yet to explain why being evil would prevent being affected by them.


Ive seen this, it does not help your case and do you know why? He says Darbus actually touched the object in question, not that we see this happen but if I take that as evidence then you showing Link not even putting a finger on it.

No, it really does help my case. Link is repeatedly exposed to the Fused Shadows, literally sticking his hand in the aura that each gives off, as well as the particles that each boss gives off.


Thats not the twilight piecies youve been telling me about, thats the full helmet thats hes breaking and it seems powerless, I can see clearly the dark energy coming from the mirror shards but theres nothing coming from the helmet.

What are twilight peices? Regardless, the helmet is part of the Fused Shadows, so why do you think otherwise? Ganondorf crushes it and its power.


But Blizzeda or w/e its called was in front of the mirror, not sure if thats the same as what happened to Darbus, this looked like the mirror was just affecting Blizzeda into loving it. Ime wondering if the mirror shards have much to do with it, this thing didnt touch the mirror, Darbus did and was transformed. It seems theres just a type of corruption, but this brings us back to the "different universes" thing again, where this type of twilight corruption does not account for mind control, which is completly different, soul powrs which are not even displayed here. Different powers, if Lok were using corruption solely then you "may" have a point but they dont.

Link was in front of the Mirror, too, both when Yeta transformed and after he obtained it. The Mirror of Twilight and the Fused Shadows are different items, except that one only requires you to look at it to fall under its control. Oh, and you wanted soul resistance? Here:
YouTube video

4:05
YouTube video
YouTube video
2:45.


Ganondorf did not resist anything, he was in pain and it seems the completed mirror is used to transport him. I know this scene, its not resistance to any of the 3 powers lok use.

He wasn't transformed, however, and he did not lose his mind. It's the same as the Fused Shadow feat, basically. And the Twilight Realm establishes his soul resistance, too.


Fine ok, I buy that the MS can reverse when giving an extremely long cooldown transformation based on Ganons magic . How is this going to help Link? its not passive protection....

Of course it's passive protection. It's the Master Sword that lets Link transform to and from his Wolf form at will, and prevents him from transforming in the Twilight Realm.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ignoring entire posts again, are you, BT?

Dangoro has more metal on one arm than there is in the entirety of the Iron Boots. And yet...

Please. The rocky outsropping make up at least half of their body, and moreso on Dangoro, who's also wearing armor.

As you can see, his entire backside is rock, and when curled up you can barely see anything that isn't. That much rock and metal makes it impossible for Dangoro to weigh anywhere near 600 pounds.

Quite similar. Both the result of a curse and dark magic, with similar weaknesses. Both of them are demonstratably weak to holy and light based weapons and magic (such as the life force of the gods or sunlight glyph). Actually, it's more like claiming that twilight won't affect Kain because he's resisted similar before, when it's actually COMPLETELY different. Isn't that right? If twilight is so different, why do you think Kain can resist it when he's never faced anything like it? As I see it, you can have two choices here:
1. Twilight and dark magic/vampires are too different, and thus Kain is affected by twilight since he's never resisted it.
2. Twilight and dark magic/vampires are similar, and thus Kain is affected by the life force of the gods.
You can't have it both ways, as claiming that Kain could resist twilight would be admitting they're similar enough for the Light Spirits to work, and claiming that the Light Spirits only affect twilight would be admitting that they're too different for Kain's resistances to magic and such to work. So Kain can either get incinerated by Light Spirits or transformed by twilight, and I'll just give you the luxury of choosing which one.

Yup, the one lifting the Dark Fog, powering solar devices, removing the Shadow Beast curse, and infusing the Master Sword with light is indeed a Sol. Those things are like the sun, you know.

I guess you're just not looking hard enough, then. I can show them to you, if you wish.

YouTube video

0:5 and 4:15, if you must see.

Now, I've never heard of lightning speed Ganondorf, but here's the Light Spirit thing again.

YouTube video

3:10, there ya go. If you want me to show you kain being evil, I can do that, too.
YouTube video
YouTube video

Oh, look, damning the entire realm because of your own selfish desires. This alone is reason enough to consider him evil. But this right just puts him over the edge:
YouTube video

😆

Not sure what you're watching, but that Fused Shadow sinking into the ground is pretty hard to miss. And the Interlopers could't do a thing about it, either.

Eh, the blades aren't even the best he has, so it doesn't matter. He can always just curse people like he did Midna and kill them with twilight while they struggle without powers.

Zant. The guy who will impify LoK, yes.

As I said before, DMCand GoW are two are worst possible examples you could have picked, as neither one gives physics any nods at all, noe much indication that they're really all there. Whereas LoK has things like this:
YouTube video
6:12

No, it's a canon ability that isn't a mechanic for fun or a cutscene. He dodges arrows point blank, and Link gives no indication of when he'll shoot. Link and Ganondorf show no reaction to the Fused Shadows or Mirror of twilight because they are resistant, how many time will I tell you this, I wonder. And you have yet to explain why being evil would prevent being affected by them.

No, it really does help my case. Link is repeatedly exposed to the Fused Shadows, literally sticking his hand in the aura that each gives off, as well as the particles that each boss gives off.

What are [b]twilight peices? Regardless, the helmet is part of the Fused Shadows, so why do you think otherwise? Ganondorf crushes it and its power.

Link was in front of the Mirror, too, both when Yeta transformed and after he obtained it. The Mirror of Twilight and the Fused Shadows are different items, except that one only requires you to look at it to fall under its control. Oh, and you wanted soul resistance? Here:
YouTube video

4:05
YouTube video
YouTube video
2:45.

He wasn't transformed, however, and he did not lose his mind. It's the same as the Fused Shadow feat, basically. And the Twilight Realm establishes his soul resistance, too.

Of course it's passive protection. It's the Master Sword that lets Link transform to and from his Wolf form at will, and prevents him from transforming in the Twilight Realm. [/B]

Last time I recall, I took out the "childish trolling and BS" and replied to the argument. Also technically I didnt ignore anything, I would have had to have read his "childish trolling and BS " to have decided to get rid of it.

Give me the volume measurements of the rock? all it looks like to me is, as ytou said outcroppings. The majority of his form below an outcropping and inside his body is whats going to make a lot of weight. If its all just flesh then fine.

Wrong, vampires in LoK are not affected by "holy" anything. Only sunlight and hylden Glyph magic is effective.

I choose the one where my argument was never anything to do with simularities between races why Lok could resist twilight, its because basic soldiers resist it, its slow to form and the height of it affected defenceless peasants.

Clearly nothing like the sun, because their dimly lit orbs. Show me what claims the orbs have the same intensity of light and properties of sunlight? and then show me where its vastly more powerful than sunlight (requird because vampires have evolved past even sunlights power).

So not only does Link yelp as he uses a fairly small amount of jouls lifting the object. But the ground and the area around him is not physically touched, It escapes me to see the amount of realistic physics going on that allows math to be used on that piece at all, and hte fact it shatters like glass..well...its not as heavy as a thought in the first place. Maybe thats why earth, ground and Link himself can take the weight of the blocks.

Ive seen it 100 times, your not proving anything in it. Its not sunlight, its something completly unique to the series that seems to only affect twilight.

Thats not evil, thats Kain taking a very human choice of living over dieing. Its possibly heartless and extremely selfish.

That just makes him more awsome, the fact he has spent a lot of time obviously honing his vocal chords means hes not spent it causing evil or harm to the innocent 😉

A giant fused shadow, but no magic that was turned into it at all. You dont see much of anything ,just like ambigious storyline really.

You make the no limits fallacy claim that he can curse anyone at the drop of a hat? despite not doing to anyone other than a defenceless Midna?

Zant has more chance of "impifying" himself.

Your claiming a supernatural power now as the reason LoK does not use physics? also I dont use math on Blood omen 2 anyway, if you want to try and claim a series has incorrect math try using Soul reaver.

Its a mechanic, because Ganons a boss who has a strip set of routines forcing a player to use a specific tactic to beat him, its a gameplay mechanic, more so than most, mechanics involving bosses are very common. No indication? blimey I would have thought pulling out a bow and arrow and pulling the string back is some indication...thats just your guess, my claim is that neither of the objects affect them because they never touch them, the objects themselves power never touches them like it does Blizzeda or the patriarch of the Gorons. Ganons the one who is corrupting the entities, he is the source as he according to you guys has command over both his own magic AND twilight, why the hell would mirror shards affect him? not that youve got proof they touch him.

Seems you cant progress in a debate because this TW BS has been done to death, its not soul resistances, its not resistance to sorcery that tears out your soul. Twilight is a field that transforms, both body and soul and brings it into the twilight. The fact the body disapears further proves this, theres no resistance to soul powers at all.

2:45 shows no resistance for Zant either. Thats Ganons energy touching him, AKA big ball of mud. And Zants already a twili in essence so twilight does not affect him like it does normal humans. They live in it.

All ive seen from the twilight realm is transformation into spiritual forms, its not devouring or destroying his soul and furthermore Ganon iirc while in that realm is nothing but a big spiritual head so hes not even resistant to what the twilight realm does.

Show me the evidence that canonically he transform to and from it at will, and assuming its passive protection this is against nothing but transformation based on twilight magic. The Sword repels the evil curse, that does not mean hes protected against anything else.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

As I said, Trolling, random BS and spam bore me, although it seems Scenario too agrees your making a mess of this whole thing because once again, hes stolen your argument so I think ill argue it with him rather than you. 🙂

I understand. I destroy you too hard, you aren't used to it.

Destroyed? on KMC? "sigh" belive what you wish young man, belive what you wish. Now please stop trolling my red, white and blue fwend!

The Red, White and Blue comment seems out of place for you.

However, I will point out to you that I reply only to what you give me my red, white and blue fwend.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Crikey!? Is that a Burning Thought!?

The Burning Thought is a very unique creature, even when proved wrong countless times, the Burning Thought will never cease his futile effort to be right and even insists upon it! It has even been known to use double standards...!

And now, I am gonna take my thumb, and jam it right in its butthole!

Stop trolling by using my admittedly awesome quotes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Give me the volume measurements of the rock? all it looks like to me is, as ytou said outcroppings. The majority of his form below an outcropping and inside his body is whats going to make a lot of weight. If its all just flesh then fine.

I don't know; I don't typically measure things in games. But just eyeballing it, Dangoro's of similar size to the blocks Raziel moves. I could try mathing it, but I'm not too good at it. Let's see:

For simplicity I'll just use Dangoro's ball form as a sphere- Volume=4/3*3.14*r^3. Assuming that Link is 6ft tall just because, I estimate Dangoro to be roughly 12ft in ball form, giving him a radius of 6ft. 4/3*3.14*6^3 = 904.4 cubic feet. Now, using this as a source, the average density of rock would be 94.04 lbs per cubic foot. 904.4*94.04=85,085.4lbs. Divide by 2000 for tons, and it comes out to 42.5 tons. That's if Dangoro was pure rock, but assuming the rock is just half his body, we can cut that in half for 21 tons just for the rock part of Dangoro. I wouldn't know how to calculate for flesh, if that's what it is, so let's leave that for later.

Now, based on the picture, Dangoro's armor plating is roughly 4 feet (48 inches) in length, I would say 2 (24 inches) feet in width, and perhaps 4 inches thick. Assuming that it's wrought iron, and with this as my source, a square foot of iron is 40lbs. Thus, 48*24*4=4608in, or 384 square feet for each plate. 384*40=15360lbs, or 7 tons per plate of armor. I can count roughly 5 plates on Dangoro, thus 7*5=35 tons just for Dangoro's armor.

So, in conclusion, the rock part of Dangoro is roughly 21 tons, while his armor came out to 35 tons, for a subtotal of 56 tons without counting Dangoro's flesh, bones, muscle, and other such things, or even the parts of his armor that aren't plates. If Dangoro is pure rock, he'd be 77 tons. I removed half of Dangoro's body weight and it still came out to over 56 tons, greater than Raziel's 45 tons, was it?

Now, just for completion's sake, I'm going to go ahead and math Raziel, too. Using this picture:

Assuming Raziel is 6ft as well, also just because, I estimate that block to be roughly 8ft, and I'll assume it's a cube. Going back to my source for the rocks, since we don't know what the material is, I'll default to the 94.04 average. For a cube we just need 8^3, which is 512 cubic feet. 512*94.04=48148lbs, or 24 tons. Oh, wow. Hold on, let's try this again at 9ft. 9^3=729. 729*94.04=68555.2, or 32.3 tons. Still too low. I guess we could try an actual material, like granite. 729*96=69984lbs, 34 tons. That puts Raziel's lifting strength at nearly half of TP Link's.

Damn. I anyone wants to second guess that, be my guest, but as of right now, Kain's durability is no longer a factor. Also, Jesus Christ I actually just mathed something. MooCow, are you seeing this?


Wrong, vampires in LoK are not affected by "holy" anything. Only sunlight and hylden Glyph magic is effective.

Oh, my mistake, I guess. Still, the Light Spirits have light designed to target things like vampires, what with having the light to banish evil.

YouTube video


I choose the one where my argument was never anything to do with simularities between races why Lok could resist twilight, its because basic soldiers resist it, its slow to form and the height of it affected defenceless peasants.

But you should know that nearly everything you just said is false. The soldiers resisted Dark Fog, not twilight, and twilight has affected peasants, soldiers, Gorons, Zoras, Kargarocs, Bulblins, Deku-Babas...And anyway, twilight forms very quickly, as Zant has proven.

YouTube video

0:06 and 4:12, for instance, have you forrgotten them?

YouTube video

And check out the jerk at 1:35, the Zoras at 2:45, and another Shadow Bulblin except this one has a Shadow Kargaroc with him.

YouTube video

0:35 for the fast twilight, and 3:15 for Kain's Bane.


Clearly nothing like the sun, because their dimly lit orbs. Show me what claims the orbs have the same intensity of light and properties of sunlight? and then show me where its vastly more powerful than sunlight (requird because vampires have evolved past even sunlights power).

I swear I already did this, but okay.

YouTube video
10:00, "That shing sphere illuminates this world. It's called a Sol. It's like the sun of your world, Link. The power of the Sol is the source of life in this world...It is pure power."

And then,
YouTube video
0:10, dispersing Dark Fog.
0:23, powering devices.
0:40, powering/opening doors by proximity.
4:08, breaking the Shadow form of a cursed Twili.
5:00 creating platforms of solid light.


So not only does Link yelp as he uses a fairly small amount of jouls lifting the object. But the ground and the area around him is not physically touched, It escapes me to see the amount of realistic physics going on that allows math to be used on that piece at all, and hte fact it shatters like glass..well...its not as heavy as a thought in the first place. Maybe thats why earth, ground and Link himself can take the weight of the blocks.

You're latching onto nothing right now. Literally nothing. The number you are dialing does not exist. Have you not considered that Ganondorf's castle is quite durable? Have you not considered that Link threw the block into a force field, and that's why it broke (which puts Ganondorf's shields several orders of magnititude above any shield in LoK)? Have you not considered that merely lifting that thing puts Link far above anyone in LoK? Of course you haven't, because you're grasping at nothing. Have you not considered that OoT is irrelevant to this debate?


Ive seen it 100 times, your not proving anything in it. Its not sunlight, its something completly unique to the series that seems to only affect twilight.

And Ganondorf, and evil, and magic. Regardless of whether or not it's related to sunlight, that alone let's it harm Kain.


Thats not evil, thats Kain taking a very human choice of living over dieing. Its possibly heartless and extremely selfish.

i.e: Evil enough for the Light Spirits and Master Sword. Both of them have affected Midna, and before the Sols were infused in it the Master Sword had never been specifically geared towards twilight. Selfishness is enough, damning the entire world and claiming it's his duty to kill the weak are just icing on the pain cake.


A giant fused shadow, but no magic that was turned into it at all. You dont see much of anything ,just like ambigious storyline really.

Ya, but it still happened, you know.


You make the no limits fallacy claim that he can curse anyone at the drop of a hat? despite not doing to anyone other than a defenceless Midna?

Anybody even with some resistance? Yeah, that's be no limits. Anyone that doesn't have resistance? Fair game. Midna had the powers of the ruler of the twili (which was the reason Zant hated her), so she wasn't exactly defenseless.


Zant has more chance of "impifying" himself.

What with LoK's lack of twilight resistance, I doubt it.


Your claiming a supernatural power now as the reason LoK does not use physics? also I dont use math on Blood omen 2 anyway, if you want to try and claim a series has incorrect math try using Soul reaver.

No, I'm pointing out that Faustus made a big fail of inertia right there, what with the hanging in mid air and making quite a humorous show of it. Thus all of LoK is invalidated, by your logic. So, why don't you explain to me why Raziel doesn't crack the area he stands on while he lifts a 24 ton block? All that weight on a point the size of his foot, and the floor doesn't even crack? Yeah, go ahead, you'll be doing Link a favor, since it's the same thing he did.


Its a mechanic, because Ganons a boss who has a strip set of routines forcing a player to use a specific tactic to beat him, its a gameplay mechanic, more so than most, mechanics involving bosses are very common. No indication? blimey I would have thought pulling out a bow and arrow and pulling the string back is some indication...thats just your guess, my claim is that neither of the objects affect them because they never touch them, the objects themselves power never touches them like it does Blizzeda or the patriarch of the Gorons. Ganons the one who is corrupting the entities, he is the source as he according to you guys has command over both his own magic AND twilight, why the hell would mirror shards affect him? not that youve got proof they touch him.

Have you not considered that a certain tactic is the only way for Link to beat Ganondorf? I mean, they went through the trouble of animating Ganondorf jumping out the way of arrows, boomerangs, clawshots, etc. Don't say no limits fallacy; just because that's the only way Link could have won doesn't mean it's the only way period. Ganondorf dodges arrows point blank, so he is in fact capable of it. Just because the bow is out doesn't mean Ganondorf knows exactly when Link will shoot, so he's obviously reacting to just the arrow.

As for the rest of that paragraph, it's mostly wrong. Link and Ganondorf both looked into the Mirror of Twilight (and as Blizzeta shows, you only need to look at it), and Ganondorf crushed the Fused Shadows in his hands. Which are touching it.Also, just because Ganondorf has control of something doesn't mean he's immune to it, wasn't that what you said? Ganondorf can possess people, therefore he has immunity to possession. He uses lightning, spells, I guess that means he's immune to electricity (proven false in cutscene, by the way). Oh, he uses magic, that makes him immune to magic, right? You just said it.


Seems you cant progress in a debate because this TW BS has been done to death, its not soul resistances, its not resistance to sorcery that tears out your soul. Twilight is a field that transforms, both body and soul and brings it into the twilight. The fact the body disapears further proves this, theres no resistance to soul powers at all.

The contradiction has been bolded. It affects the soul, therefore resisting it means resistance to soul based effects. Kain's spells have no feats on anything with resistance, so you have nothing to say he can affect them.


2:45 shows no resistance for Zant either. Thats Ganons energy touching him, AKA big ball of mud. And Zants already a twili in essence so twilight does not affect him like it does normal humans. They live in it.

I never said it was for Zant. His feat is stealing the Fused Shadows from Midna.


All ive seen from the twilight realm is transformation into spiritual forms, its not devouring or destroying his soul and furthermore Ganon iirc while in that realm is nothing but a big spiritual head so hes not even resistant to what the twilight realm does.

Just like Link became a wolf in the twilight as a form of resistance, Ganondorf became a god.

Show me the evidence that canonically he transform to and from it at will, and assuming its passive protection this is against nothing but transformation based on twilight magic. The Sword repels the evil curse, that does not mean hes protected against anything else.

YouTube video

1:30.


As I said, Trolling, random BS and spam bore me, although it seems Scenario too agrees your making a mess of this whole thing because once again, hes stolen your argument so I think ill argue it with him rather than you. 🙂

That's just mean.