LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your ignoring all figuires that are not yours? lol, 100 tonnes, 50 tons, 2 blocks. Hes moving the weight with ease so its over 100 tonnes, way over multiplied by the PSI on the tip of a sharp edge. Swords and claws are the same in this case. LoZ characters cant harm Kain, and thats the strongest ones.

Well, yeah. I do work, I'm going to use my work.

Oh I dont know, maybe when he stood unharmed in a regional sized area of magic power created by 3 of the stronger sorcerors in Lok early history. But it seems the strongest being they have harmed at all (midna) didnt even get harmed, and shes a weak imp....who afaik has no resistance to magic. Also wheres this sunlight Bs come from? weve established this power is not sunlight so all this is irrelevant anyway.

You mean the same area where all the Guardians and Vorador were also totally unharmed? The one that only affected weak peasants and some rain? The one that expanding ridiculously slowly? Twilight does more than that, and instantly. No, seriously, why do you consider Midna weak? Kain is evil enough to be affected anyway.

Its true Kain can call lightning using magic, that does not make the lightnings source magic, more so the "calling" is the magic. The ones who are dead ghosts and those in twilight look very similiar.

One is a ghost and dead, one is alive but reduced to soul form.

I wont repeat myself on the twilight thing, Ive seen the storyline of TP to know that Zant took ages to cover the world in twilight, ive seen no evidence he did anything to bring it back after the light spirit covered it.

Stop making things up.
YouTube video
4:58, twilight begins.
5:01, twilight fully in place.
5:03, few people finish transforming.

That's 3 seconds.

Well no its not sunlight because its not the sun, its a "sol" which as midna says is "like" the sun in the fact it provides life to the twilight realm and illuminates it. Beyond that shes not specific on how many simulariities it has, all we can see its a dimly lit bulb.

Enough similarities to destroy Shadow Beast curses.

"tearing apart", you can call it that but I call it "small tremurs". Why should 50 crack the floor? your making up BS comparisons that dont make sense. They said it can ford rivers, not that the mud would not be disturbed, your making things up again unless your proposing mud is stronger than concrete, cement and steel bridges? nah...

Call it what you want, that won't make you right. Regradless, I'm asking you why 50 tons of weight focused into an area the size of Raziel's foot doesn't crack the floor. I'm also saying the tank wouldn't sink into the mud and there was nothing that said it would sink into dry dirt, either.

Magical effect? its just what happens when a being not of the twilight realm touches twilight, or should I say, when weak and resistanceless creatures touch it e.g. human peasants. Ofc its irrelevant, Zants too slow to cast it.

Humans, Zoras, Gorons, Bulblins, Kargorocs, Deku-Bobas, etc. Though Hylians show some resistance to Dark Fog. And Zant can do it in three seconds.

So you were wrong, thats not the reason he "damned the world" as you believe. Calling himself a "dark God" makes someone evil? I loled....ofc you dont care, you dont care about any evidence that topples your arguments which is most of the evidence so far, whether you care about it or not it wont go away. based on feats Kains resisted things beyond the LoZ realms power both physical and magical and his only major weakness he has evolved past (sunlight).

Let me get this straight to see if I understand you:
-Kain proclaims himself to be a "dark god."
-You believe he is not evil.

That about the gist of it?

I watched that whole video, but all I found out was that Midna is a descendant of the intelopers and that twilight creatures from there cannot be within light. So it seems, Zant and his forces are going to have problems with "sunlight", or at least his forces, Zant seems resistant.

You asked for proof that they were banished before they became Twili, and I gave it to you. Therefore they can affect things that aren't Twili.

The video supports it, not sure what claims your talking about as I am just making claims based on the video.

Give me the rundown on why.

Sure toonforce is obvious, throughout LoZ, LoK on the other hand has supernatural entities doing supernatural things similiar to their power set.

LoZ has supernatural forces similar to their powersets as well, but that doesn't stop you.

No its not, I know the gauntlets only affect strength. Because their cracked and as i said, combined together the same way as the older castles of our time, and dont argue that our castles are nothing alike to Ganondorfs, sure theres some force keeping it flying but its made of stone and the blocks are together in similiar ways.

You mean that small area only around the pillar that was built to hold it?

Infact, both require a twitch of the finger, and your the one strawmanning, your trying to argue twitches of a finger when you dont have just react to that, you can react to the person themselves, predict their aim. Also the scene is not canon, pulling out the bow at that point is player choice.

Takes longer to release your hold than to pull back your finger. Regardless, Ganondorf dodged the arrow.

😆 I thought you would show videos of Midna actually using the power of the fused shadows against him, your so predictable. But its not really that funny, you belive that him being harmed by that, then showing him crushing the harmless helmet without an owner is him with resistances? 🙄

And I knew you would do your best to downplay or ignore it like always. What's your point? Ganondorf tuched a Fused Shadow with no ill effects.

Not sure if the soul is removed or the body is removed, its nothing to do with resisting a soul rip thats for certain.

All of them involve the soul being separated from the body. Resistance is resistance.

A formidable and slow defence against reversing a twilight specific curse. So Links protected against slow magic projectiles AND twilight based transformations (given the MS some time to reverse the curse) lol, looks like Link is going to be ripped about by Kain and other LoK sorcerors, hes got no protection against any of their powers apart from maybe energy bolt.

Nah, resistance in the form of Triforce of Courage (also shown to stun Shadow Beasts), the Master Sword (with its curse breaking and Sol power), as well as the resistance shown by looking into the Mirror of Twilight.

I would like to know this as well, Dangoro's armour is not that large, or thick imo. Theres no way its coming in at that weight.

596 TONS

😆

Originally posted by The Scenario
Well, yeah. I do work, I'm going to use my work.

You mean the same area where all the Guardians and Vorador were also totally unharmed? The one that only affected weak peasants and some rain? The one that expanding ridiculously slowly? Twilight does more than that, and instantly. No, seriously, why do you consider Midna weak? Kain is evil enough to be affected anyway.

One is a ghost and dead, one is alive but reduced to soul form.

Stop making things up.
YouTube video
4:58, twilight begins.
5:01, twilight fully in place.
5:03, few people finish transforming.

That's 3 seconds.

Enough similarities to destroy Shadow Beast curses.

Call it what you want, that won't make you right. Regradless, I'm asking you why 50 tons of weight focused into an area the size of Raziel's foot doesn't crack the floor. I'm also saying the tank wouldn't sink into the mud and there was nothing that said it would sink into dry dirt, either.

Humans, Zoras, Gorons, Bulblins, Kargorocs, Deku-Bobas, etc. Though Hylians show some resistance to Dark Fog. And Zant can do it in three seconds.

Let me get this straight to see if I understand you:
-Kain proclaims himself to be a "dark god."
-You believe he is not evil.

That about the gist of it?

You asked for proof that they were banished before they became Twili, and I gave it to you. Therefore they can affect things that aren't Twili.

Give me the rundown on why.

LoZ has supernatural forces similar to their powersets as well, but that doesn't stop you.

You mean that small area only around the pillar that was built to hold it?

Takes longer to release your hold than to pull back your finger. Regardless, Ganondorf dodged the arrow.

And I knew you would do your best to downplay or ignore it like always. What's your point? Ganondorf tuched a Fused Shadow with no ill effects.

All of them involve the soul being separated from the body. Resistance is resistance.

Nah, resistance in the form of Triforce of Courage (also shown to stun Shadow Beasts), the Master Sword (with its curse breaking and Sol power), as well as the resistance shown by looking into the Mirror of Twilight.

[b]596 TONS

😆 [/B]

Well ill use the common figuire that is also my work, 50 tonnes. Its irrelevant, 20,30, 50 tonnes. Kain is still immune and Raziel is still strong.

No, that iirc is the top of the tower, the sorcerors themselves and the area they were in seems untouched. But Kain walked throughout the land and the region of Dark Eden and he was not harmed. Twilight does more? all it does is turn peasants into spiritual forms within the twilight realm. The Eden field transforms both natural, living or unliving entities/objects, rains of fire, mutation. Apprently even inside the tower of Dark Eden the sorcerors had warped space creating a kind of "tardis" effect (if you know of Doctor Who).

They looked exactly the same, and whats the difference between those two exactly? your sort of saying that spirit form is different in LoZ if you become a spirit through either death or twilight, can you show me evidence of this?

No, thats how long it takes for the field to transform peasants after its been cast, since we dont know how long it took for Zant to cast it in the first place, since we dont see him. We can only count from after he is off-screen.

3 seconds is still too long, 3 seconds? in 2 or less a teleporter could have assasinated him, a group of archers could have peppered him with arrows which according to you, is faster than pulling a gun trigger 😉

Shadow beast curses are neither here nor there when considering sunlight.

Because it would not crack the floor....first of all its not focused because Raziel pushes the majority of the time, second 50 tonnes is not nearly as much as 1000. Your making comparisons as if the two figuires are close. The tank smashes things stronger than mud, point being the weight of an enormous tank being 1k with its weight distributed across its enormous size shattered steel and concrete and tarmac on roads, now imagine all that 1000 tonnes concentrated in the space of a foot. Your playing "silly bugger" if you dont think theres any physics at fault when a guy as small and light as Link lifts it up, dealing no damage the environment, himself or witohut falling over.

3 seconds I dont agree with, but ill take it. Zant will be dead in 3 seconds. And for what? trying to cast a field whos force only affects living entities and does nothing but displace souls of the weak. The Dark Fog and twilight are the same thing in different forms because Zant only has that kind of power set.

Thats the gist, I cant go outside and shout to my neighbour that I am a "demon king" only for him to label me as evil (insane perhaps in this case). Calling yourself a "dark god" or anything of the sort is not evil. The guy just spent the whole game killing off the corrupted and evil entities who would have wiped out the world, and whats more, in BO2 he goes on the save the world against from the hylden invasion. The guy is a hero more so than evil.

I asked for the proof that they were not using twilight magic, or that the fused shadows were not twilight magic.

Well, Zant walks up to Midna within a meter or so of him (short range) and he has to wave his arm which took about a second or so to do for the transformation to take effect on a defencless young woman at that. If you think he would get within rangeo f anyone in LoK, or indeed Kain and actually succeed in transforming Kain who has more magical resistance than Zant has power in his entire body then you are mistkaen.

Excuse me? since when is bouncing along lava from a Gorons who not supernatural within its power set?

The area link is in, and the room he walks into next look like a combination of rocks. It looks like an old english castle (the only ones I have seen are from my country, ime sure french or other medieval establishments are the same).

My point is that the fused shadows dont do anything when their not on Midnas head, with her power controlling it. The helmet in his hands is just that, a helmet. That would be like Kain snapping Moebius' staff and me claiming that makes him immune to its powers.

Resistance to transformation maybe, and whats this "seperation"? the body seems to disapear altogether, their just transformed into a twilight soul. Which according to you earlier is different to a "dead" soul apprently so dont contradict.

Triforce of courage has never protected against soul, mind or blood powers. The mirror thing is ambigious, he either does not touch it or hes far away from it and more so, the mirror does not control your mind forcefully like a mind control, it corrupts so sure, maybe Link is incorruptable but his mind is fair game. The MS can break a curse, but LoK dont use curses....certainly not twilight based ones who transform you into a wolf and it would be useless, canonically it takes the MS a long time to reverse such a lowly curse anyway.

Yes, if its nearly 600 tonnes then the Soul reaver weighs 1000! 😆 🙄

Originally posted by The Scenario
Hmm. Your source lists stone as 155 lbs per cubic foot, whereas mine has average rock at 94 lbs per cubic foot. I see the discrepancy. My new calculation using this:
8.5ft^3=614.1
614.1*155=95189.4lbs

48 tons for common stone, yeah. But, using the same material for Dangoro yeilds:
4/3*pi*6^3=904.8
904.8*155=140240lbs

70 tons pure rock, 35 tons halved, 28 at 2/5ths.

✓ Sure, why not. So we're setting the rock part of Gorons at 2/5?

Originally posted by The Scenario
As for the armor,

Picture used:
[~~~]

Looking back, I accidentally used square feet where I should have used cubic feet. I used 40 when I should have used 480 or 490. Unfortunately, using cubic feet would make each of Dangoro's plates 82 tons each, for 596 tons for the armor alone. There's something wrong there. Not even I would claim this. Maybe I got the meaurements wrong on the plates. But, they're more than half of Link's height, and more than his shoulder width.

2/5 or 1/5, hard to say because their just oucroppings. Not sure that quite as close to being 20% of his mass, or 10%.

I see. So its 28 tons of Dagoro with 2 tons of iron, 30 ton hurl. -phew- finally got his strength down.

30 tonnes sounds about right assuming the math and physics of LoZ are well thought and realistic.

Although I still argue that that is not the case, at least in the Dangoro scene.

You guys are insane. Gorons = made of rock.

The eyes, having nipples, navels and nostrils, the lips and fleshy inner mouth, fleshy-like skin, the area under the cloth and the having different levels of fat and muscles says that they aren't 100% rock.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The eyes, having nipples, navels and nostrils, the lips and fleshy inner mouth, fleshy-like skin, the area under the cloth and the having different levels of fat and muscles says that they aren't 100% rock.

That skin is not as fleshy as you think, for one.

Secondly, Gorons still have to reproduce. We've seen no females, so they probably just jizz on other rocks and they spring to life.

Nostrils do not prove anything, Gorons do not need to breathe. We also do not know what the muscles are made of. Gorons have not proven themselves incredibly flexible.

It can be theorized that Gorons are very similar to the movie depiction of The Thing, where even his organs were made of rock. They eat rocks. Therefore they digest rocks.

Theres no evidence to suggest theres any more rock to them than the outcroppings. Dangoro is at most 30 tonnes assuming LoZ has realistic physics, case closed.

You have to matter to be able to close a case. Both of your statements are incorrect.

Oh and hair. Some Gorons have hair that, just saying. -nods-

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The fleshy mouths chat can crush diamonds, flexible skin that can smash rock, verying levels of fat that produce sparks when struck by swords, the nostrils that don't breathe, the nipples which even LOOK like rocks?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That skin is not as fleshy as you think, for one.

Secondly, Gorons still have to reproduce. We've seen no females, so they probably just jizz on other rocks and they spring to life.

Nostrils do not prove anything, Gorons do not need to breathe. We also do not know what the muscles are made of. Gorons have not proven themselves incredibly flexible.

It can be theorized that Gorons are very similar to the movie depiction of The Thing, where even his organs were made of rock. They eat rocks. Therefore they digest rocks.

Is if it works like skin does. Just a different level like human to cow hide.

Cant be 100% rock if there's something to make jizz and other fluids, and then something to keep those working or assisting etc

Forgot the breathing thing. They're flexible enough to curl into balls, seem to work in the same way ours do like the top Gorons who are more muscular then the rest.

Perhaps. Except that Grimm looks 100% rock while Gorons don't.

------------
BT makes the point that the only evidence we have is from their appearance and theories. Every kind of wiki page about them even says they're part rock or that rocks grow off them.

Teeth would be the thing crushing it, not the red gums or lips. Flexible skin is still skin, not rock. Fat/muscle is it tough or whatever but not rock. And nips as in mammary glans for milk. Eyes, gums, nips means liquid is/can be made so there must be quite organic inside for that to be made.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Gorons are stated to be rock,

How about we take a nice little break from your trolling/spamming technique and actually show some evidence for once? sound good to you chum?

http://www.amazon.ca/Legend-Zelda-Twilight-Princess/dp/B000KF0GA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1285011159&sr=1-1

I didnt think you would be capable of actually posting evidence to support your claims. 🙁 what a god damn shame!

Originally posted by BloodRain
Is if it works like skin does. Just a different level like human to cow hide.

Cant be 100% rock if there's something to make jizz and other fluids, and then something to keep those working or assisting etc

Forgot the breathing thing. They're flexible enough to curl into balls, seem to work in the same way ours do like the top Gorons who are more muscular then the rest.

Perhaps. Except that Grimm looks 100% rock while Gorons don't.

------------
BT makes the point that the only evidence we have is from their appearance and theories. Every kind of wiki page about them even says they're part rock or that rocks grow off them.

There is no proof of this. And this skin has been stabbed to let sparks fly in addition to leaving no marks. And as we know, a harder material can only scratch things it is harder than.

Good point about the jizz, but that's more me being stupid. I wish it were true, 'cause it'd be funny as hell to me.

There is no real flexibility there, it seems as though most Goron backs are naturally curved. And with the way their backs are shaped, all that is really required is pulling up your knees and tucking in your arms. Two movements relatively easy with their backs the way they are. Sure, maybe they're more flexible than I'm saying, but definitely not on the level of someone who doesn't have rock skin and an exceptionally tough back.

Does not refute my point.

Wikis can be wrong.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except there are no female Gorons, Gorons eat rocks and have no use for milk, ect. A colour is not evidence of softness. The palette of a Goron's mouth is designed for a diet of stone. Gorons are stated to be rock, and you're making quite the leap trying to cut them down as much as possible.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
There is no proof of this. And this skin has been stabbed to let sparks fly in addition to leaving no marks. And as we know, a harder material can only scratch things it is harder than.

Good point about the jizz, but that's more me being stupid. I wish it were true, 'cause it'd be funny as hell to me.

There is no real flexibility there, it seems as though most Goron backs are naturally curved. And with the way their backs are shaped, all that is really required is pulling up your knees and tucking in your arms. Two movements relatively easy with their backs the way they are. Sure, maybe they're more flexible than I'm saying, but definitely not on the level of someone who doesn't have rock skin and an exceptionally tough back.

Does not refute my point.

Wikis can be wrong.

Gameplay leaves marks now? O.o marks aren't left on any creature, I doubt they're all harder then steel.
Weeell how much can you move around with a rock back? Eg if your back (up to your head) was solid how flexible would you be? Only your limbs could move, but you still have human skin/flexibility just limited by the solid back.

Kinda does. Shouldnt think Gorons are like movie Grimm if one appears to be made of a larger percentage of rock then the other. Makes little sense comparing in this way.

Very true but the point is that many think the same thing. Now the majority can be proven wrong with jaw dropping logic to say they're fully rock (Nothing yet) or evidence. (Again, nothing yet)

Originally posted by BloodRain
Gameplay leaves marks now? O.o marks aren't left on any creature, I doubt they're all harder then steel.
Weeell how much can you move around with a rock back? Eg if your back (up to your head) was solid how flexible would you be? Only your limbs could move, but you still have human skin/flexibility just limited by the solid back.

Kinda does. Shouldnt think Gorons are like movie Grimm if one appears to be made of a larger percentage of rock then the other. Makes little sense comparing in this way.

Very true but the point is that many think the same thing. Now the majority can be proven wrong with jaw dropping logic to say they're fully rock (Nothing yet) or evidence. (Again, nothing yet)

True enough. But Dangoro makes no mention of serious wounds, and sparks still fly. Dangoro actually only acknowledges that it hurt, and he was more likely talking about the lava.

Exactly. And no on the human skin. Actually, I see no reason to believe otherwise. The back and other portions with much rock looking rock can be attributed to how Gorons roll around. The rest of their skin may well be different looking, but it can still be made of rock.

The comparison was more about the internal organs. You know, since they eat rocks, they have to digest rocks.

Lies, sir. Quotes, and there is no reason to believe otherwise, though you may think so.