I enjoy these debates.
Though for sake of argument, shouldn't the Ultraverse incident be taken into account?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyhow, here are FOUR Gems (Space-Power-Mind-Soul)Creating one Universe after another, on top of one another back to back:
"Each New Wave CREATED another New Reality"
.................................................................These same FOUR Gems, almost caused the collapse of the Omniverse:
"These Two Gems (Time-Reality) must be reunited,
otherwise ALL REALITIES, including this one, will be destroyed,
I have to use them to CREATE a New and stronger Reality,
one whose Fabric isn't unravelling as this one is"
My God Odg are you still talking about this and claiming the IG is only universal because that word was said in the arc in question? How many times do I have to explain this buddy. The reason it talked about THIS sphere or THIS universe only is because that IS ALL Thanos was trying to take over. He wasn't worried other universes, he was worried about only the 616 Universe. Therefore, why would the words multiverse be used? Thats right it wouldn't. Yet does that mean it's only universal in power... clearly not. It merged two universes from a totally seperate universe. It was the TOTAL power of an omniversal being. Just because somebody has had it long enough or got acclimated to it long enough, or concerned about taking over the multiverse doesn't mean it cannot. They simply haven't tried. So why on God green earth you use the fact that Universe was said over and over as proof that it's only universal is beyond me. It doesn't prove that, it proves Thanos was only concerned about taking over the 616. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet you expect it to say it's multiversal in power? LOL . Ooo but what it did.. it said he's God of this universe and all universeS. It pwned two multiversal things with utter ease.... Eternity and the UN.. plus added to what I said above.. it's clearly at least multi-universal and iMO multiversal. Stop talking about how it only says universe, as if that proves something. It proves Thanos was only concerned with that universe which he was. Period, end of story.
^ All your criticisms noting that Thanos only wanted to conquer the 616 universe are recognized and still dismissed.
Because I showed you scans of where Eternity explains exactly what he represents. The estimation of that Eternity is crucial when measuring just how powerful the IG truly is. Does that Eternity that was conquered by the IG represent all universeS or just one universe? Eternity himself states it outright several times. It doesn't get anymore clearer than this, "Am I not the embodiment of all there is in this universe? Who better to have complete control of this reality?"
The Eternity that showed up during the Infinity Sagas represented only the single 616 universe. That's it.
And any protestation that I'm ignoring that the IG merged a shadow duplicate onto the 616 universe is a red herring. Great. The IG can accelerate the merger of a shadow duplicate universe that the IG didn't even begin, much less create. So what? The IG just being universal doesn't preclude it from such a feat. Enough with the wordplay whereby you're trying to conflate universal = multi-universal = multiversal. Because when we get to the bottom of it, trying to compare that feat to the instantaneous nullification/recreation of all the infinite alternate universes throughout the Marvel Multiverse is ludicrous.
Originally posted by AstnerYes. It is canon. The only thing that the Gems were doing there was creating creating multiple waves of reality to wash over the Malibu Universe and altering it each time it did. Nothing more, nothing less.
I enjoy these debates.Though for sake of argument, shouldn't the Ultraverse incident be taken into account?
The fully harnessed 616 IG makes one omnipotent, all powerful, basically God.
And ONLY he (or an equally representative power) who is above God, is greater:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Malestrom clearly pointed out that his power source was beneath the IG.
He also pointed out, only if Thanos was adept in his use.
Thanos had just acquired the IG, and unlike Magus, didn't adapt so quickly.
Maelstrom was only tapping the power of Infinity,
he was always weaker than Oblvion and Infinity through uot the Quasar arc,
so he must've been weaker than Eternity who Thanos with the IG stomped in one move.
In fact,
Maelstrom was further empowered by Oblivion himself, who basically merged with him.
Quasar was then empowered by Infinity ... and Quasar stalemated Maelstrom
READ: Maelstrom himself adds that Quasar and himself are "too evenly matched"
So, without a doubt, Thanos IG was far more powerful than Malestrom,
and imo, Maelstrom was obliterated by the infant IG wielding Thanos
and re-created by Oblivion into reality.
Oblvion did this due to Maelstrom being his avatar.
There's indirect proof that supports this notion.
The very fact that Malestrom was obliterated another time & Oblivion recreated that time as well. 😬
So, Malestrom wasn't indestructible, even as the Anomaly,
he was though, being thrown back into existence by Oblivion who has dominion over the erased.
^ Nobody's arguing Maelstrom is indestructible. I mean... he destroyed himself later on with his own Black Hole. But here, in this scene, he simply tanked the IG blast like it was nothing. Nothing shows he disappeared or was destroyed and then came back. You see him speaking in the crater and mocking IG-Thanos unaffected. Your strained injection of a resurrection has no support and contradicts what is plainly presented here:
Originally posted by Mr MasterAgain, these are just three of dozens of scans that specify Adam Warlock's supreme being status. He was the supreme being over the single universe of 616: (vi) How does Adam Warlock describe himself when he had the IG in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1? "My very status as this reality's supreme being assures my perfection." (vii) And ruminating on it later in issue #2, "My period as this reality's supreme being has been a shattering experience." And again in issue #3, "I, Adam Warlock, once this plane of existence's end-all and be-all." I can provide more if you want, but we both know there are dozens more that make it clear what Adam Warlock was supreme being over, i.e., the single 616 universe.
The fully harnessed 616 IG makes one omnipotent, all powerful, basically God. And ONLY he (or an equally representative power) who is above God, is greater:
Originally posted by Mr MasterRead that scan more closely and you'll recognize that Maelstrom is only comparing the power of the IG to the Quantum Bands. Maelstrom has his own kinetic control powers, the amp provided by Oblivion and his Anomaly status all in addition to the Quantum Bands.
Malestrom clearly pointed out that his power source was beneath the IG. He also pointed out, only if Thanos was adept in his use. Thanos had just acquired the IG, and unlike Magus, didn't adapt so quickly.
Originally posted by Mr MasterInfinity is referring to Maelstrom's possession of the Quantum Bands. Which taps into the power of Infinity. That isn't what Maelstrom was limited to at the time he created his Black Hole.
Maelstrom was only tapping the power of Infinity, he was alwys weaker than Oblvion and Infinity thrugh ut the Quasar arc, so he must've been weaker than Eternity who Thanos with the IG stomped in one.
Originally posted by Mr MasterActually, Quasar proved to be more than a match because he was a greater Anomaly than Maelstrom at that point. Let's not ignore that the single most obvious reason that A.Maelstrom might prove to be immune to the IG's power is his status as an Anomaly. Which Quasar was at that point as well. Your observations are all true to a certain point, but don't recognize all the circumstances present.
In fact, Maelstrom was further empowered by Oblivion himself, who basically merged with him.Quasar was then empowered by Infinity ... and Quasar [b]stalemated
MaelstromREAD: Maelstrom himself adds that Quasar and himself are "too evenly matched" [/B]
Originally posted by Mr Master
The fully harnessed 616 IG makes one omnipotent, all powerful, basically God.
And ONLY he (or an equally representative power) who is above God, is greater:
Otherwise that statement carries little more weight than did statements that the Cosmic Cube made Thanos "God" or that Odin was "Omnipotent".
Originally posted by Mr Master
.................................................................................................** [b]Supreme Being of the 616 Reality makes you God of all Universes
**.............................................................................................
"This is the blood of one who is perhaps the single most powerful entity in all the Multiverse!"
.................................................................................................
Dormammu transcends from the Dimension of Manifestations, into the 616 Reality.
What is the power of 616 Eternity?
"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL This -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"(Infinity is part of this, but sometimes she's depicted, sometimes not, many times Eternity is both)
.................................................................................................
Make no mistake ... Dormammu is speaking about conquering the Multiverse,
by conquering 616 Eternity. *"It always comes down to
conquering The Universe ... well, Multiverse in my case..................................................................................................
In fact, ALL UNIVERSES!!! (by conquering 616 Eternity)
"I will soon be lord of All Universes"
.................................................................................................
Is this a surprise?
Of course not ..
Roma, the Omniversal Guardian clearly explained that Eternity The Universe contains ...(well, read for yourselves) ... from the Abraxas arc ...
"To comprehend The Universe is no easy task,
suffice to say, I tend to a creature known as Eternity
within it Exists ALL That Ever Was, Ever Is, or Ever Will Be" [/B]
..........................................................................................
Soul Gem states:
That the IG is Omnipotence ... and makes the wielder All there is:
"I am one of Six which were once One ...
we were Omnipotence and All there was"
The Living Tribunal certifies this claim:
"Warlock chose him while in a state of Omnipotence,
AND,
it can NOT be denied"
========================
*** Jim Starlin interview ***
========================
Jim Starlin
(the writer/creator of the Infinity Gauntlet)
gets interviewed by Marvel Age.
Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories from the Writers themselves.
"The Infinity Gauntlet,
a story that dealt with the idea of a nihilist (Thanos) becoming God"
..........................................................................................
Jim Starlin himself adds:
"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"
The Supreme ruling being of the Marvel Universe is Eternity/Infinity:
(TOAA is inconsequential since everything is art on paper to them,
the LT represents their 'in-omniverse' power when needed)
"Eternity ... before the IG ... you were the Lord of all that is"
And it seems (according to the LT) that only the IG is a true threat to that position.
"Now their existence challenges that lofty state"
..............................................................................
Eternity/Infinity really is where everything in Marvel stems from:
"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL This -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is."
..............................................................................
Thanos/IG not only stomped Eternity in one move:
Thanos also effortlessly replaced "the Lord of all that is" ...
^ *shrug*
I can copy and repaste scans ad nauseam also, which clearly delineate that the Eternity that showed up in the Infinity Sagas represented only one universe:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0*shrug*
And moving on to Eternity... what exactly is Eternity in this storyline of clearly universal significance as CLEARLY illustrated above? Does he represent the 616 universe? Or does he represent the entire Marvel Multiverse from the 134 universe to the 9150 universe? [b](viii) Let's take a look at the first time he actually shows up to duel IG-Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet #5. "To reclaim that which is mine and myself. Control of this reality!"(ix) What did Thanos do after beating him? "Thanos has now thoroughly usurped Eternity's rightful position as the center of all reality in this sphere. . . a valiant effort to save this plane of existence has failed."
(x) Later on in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1, how does Eternity again describe himself? "Do I not represent all that is this universe?"
(xi) And again, "Am I not the embodiment of all there is in this universe? Who better to have complete control of this reality?"
Can any of these scans be translated as if the IG was supreme power over every single alternate universe? Any mention of Multiverse? Any mention that Eternity represents universeS? Or the Multiverse? Seriously? And the above-scenes from the Infinity Sagas are supposed to be multiversally relevant, while Abraxas isn't? That's a phucktarded level of ass-backwards.
Infinity Gauntlet clearly dealt with a universal threat, a universal artifact, and an Eternity that represented the single 616 universe. Abraxas clearly dealt with a multiversal threat, a multiversal artifact, and an Eternity that represented all alternate universes, i.e., Multi-Eternity.
That's all there is to it. No amount of wishful thinking, misguided minsinterpretation or wordplay crusades changes the plain presentation of both storylines. [/B]
Originally posted by Omega VisionWell just think of a saying.Theres always a bigger fish.How do you know there isn't one that dwarfs god?
The title "God" would be A LOT more impressive if you didn't just admit that there can be (and is) something greater.Otherwise that statement carries little more weight than did statements that the Cosmic Cube made Thanos "God" or that Odin was "Omnipotent".
Also: OMG so many scans!Brain not comprehending!
Originally posted by Mr Masterit was all due to usurping anomaly's role, then the power backing from the abstracts made him the exception to even the ig's influence apparently. he wasn't more powerful than thanos at the time, but he was immune to him cause of the title anomaly: exception to all rules.
So, without a doubt, Thanos IG was far more powerful than Malestrom,
and imo, [b]Maelstrom was obliterated by the infant IG wielding Thanos
and re-created by Oblivion into reality.Oblvion did this due to Maelstrom being his avatar.
There's indirect proof that supports this notion.
The very fact that Malestrom was obliterated another time & Oblivion recreated that time as well. 😬
So, Malestrom wasn't indestructible, even as the Anomaly,
he was though, being thrown back into existence by Oblivion who has dominion over the erased. [/B]
Originally posted by BadabingThanos with the gems can only affect the universe which the gems reside.
Especially considering that Magus with an incomplete IG,
managed to merge Two Universes (one of which was 616) with a another Universe.
He did this, from yet another separate Universe where he was also the shit
---------------------------------------
Magus created a Duplicate 616 Universe with 5 CCUs.
Then Magus began to merge the 616 Universe, with this Duplicate 616 Universe.
(it would've taken hours he said later on) using the CCUs
So ...
Then Magus used the IG to instantly merge the 616 Universe, with the Duplicate.
(from a third separate Universe FAR away from 616) ... the Magus' stronghold.
===========================
So if Magus with an incomplete IG can do that,
imagine what the complete IG (which is true Godhood) is capable of.
Surely at the very least, we have to agree that it isn't just universal if anything.
^ Magus accelerating a process which the IG didn't even start denotes universal power. The IG didn't even create that shadow duplicate universe. That's universal power. If someone can destroy a star, that gives them star-destroying power. It doesn't give them galaxy-destroying power. Let's not confuse what "universal" and "multiversal" means in the grand scheme of things. "Universal" power means you have power over a universe. "Multiversal" power means you have power over every single alternate universe.
We know what the 616 IG did as its greatest feat: It took over the single 616 universe. That's it. And here's some more scans directly from the Infinity Sagas that showed that the story only dealt with a single universe, not all universeS to drive the point home:
(xii) Adam Warlock explains why he should retain the IG in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1. "It was Adam Warlock that saved this universe from mad Thanos's dreams . . . The power I wield is reward for services rendered to this reality!" (xiii) "You have no idea how much this universe's salvation cost me!"
(xiv) Adam Warlock recounts to the High Evolutionary what happened in issue #3. "But then mad Thanos gained the Infinity Gems and conquered this universe. So I forsook nirvana to save this reality." (xv) Even Man-Beast knew what was at stake in issue #5, "Thanos of Titan failed in his quest for universal dominance because of the flesh!"
I've got dozens more. You want em? Otherwise, it's clear what the precise magnitude of IG-Thanos' feat was when he conquered 616 Eternity: universal dominance. Not multiversal dominance.
Originally posted by psycho gundam👆
it was all due to usurping anomaly's role, then the power backing from the abstracts made him the exception to even the ig's influence apparently. he wasn't more powerful than thanos at the time, but he was immune to him cause of the title anomaly: exception to all rules.
Originally posted by psycho gundamit was all due to usurping anomaly's role, then the power backing from the abstracts made him the exception to even the ig's influence apparently.
Originally posted by psycho gundamhe wasn't more powerful than thanos at the time,
but he was immune to him cause of the title anomaly: exception to all rules.
If you're God, there should be no rules that supersede what the IG wielder wills.
That is what the IG is, God in a glove, a plethora of scans to support this fact,
and therefore imo, it should mean what was presented on panel.
Which is 2 beings (thanos/Warlock) that become truly God-like
and so basically this means Supreme beings of reality beneath TOAA & his representative.
That aside good friend ...
The same defense continues to pop up elsewhere, why the one Universe attachment?
Well, that's what the characters within the story were dealing with.
Thanos only wanted the 616 Reality. But that is the source of all things.
Nebula was to mentally damaged from her prior ordeal that she never harnessed the IG fully:
She did manage to stomp the abstracts minus Eternity ... yet ...
He inability to harness the IG fully allowed Warlock to surpass it's awareness.
(his relationship to the Soul Gem)
But we know that this would not have been the case with Thanos.
Thanos' would've detected him: (by this time, Thanos had relinquished the IG)
And finally, Warlock didn't want any Universe at all,
he was just found unfit to carry the mantle of God.
