Not necessarily. Reconciling the two isn't that difficult, most simply choose not to so they can pick and choose what parts they'll accept to bolster or weaken an argument. Kinda like how people attribute their favorite characters low showings to certain writers being hacks and try to disregard those occurrences though it's part of the complete narrative.
I think for DragonBall Characters it should be complete narrative, meaning the entire cartoon and comics.
Originally posted by illadelph12you sound kinda wise and rational...which is quite rare on kmc and a breath of fresh air, especially when you have clowns like jakethebank and rageofolympus stubbornly refusing to employ any form of logic.
But wouldn't it be canon to the anime version of the characters, "filler" or not? It still occurred in the narrative of the cartoon. I mean hell, I know, for example, that there was an episode where Goku forgot he could fly, but I just attribute that to cartoon silliness like Fred Flintstone and Barney running past the same table and doorway 16 times consecutively while chasing eachother yet still being in the living room. It doesn't necessarily detract from the entire story.
Originally posted by Starscream M
you sound kinda wise and rational...which is quite rare on kmc and a breath of fresh air, especially when you have clowns like jakethebank and rageofolympus stubbornly refusing to employ any form of logic.
More insults and childish jabs? Well, it's not really a shocker when:
Originally posted by Starscream M
someone who can shatter mountains with fists can't hurt thor? are you seriously that ignorant?
Originally posted by Starscream M
lol you're debating is gettering worse and worse...comparing surfer and brb to vegeta's fighting speed? ha
Originally posted by Starscream M
youtube vegetaeveryone of his fights is faster than bullet time
and since thor can't catch bullets, he can't fend off vegeta's blows.
this is just common sense, why are you being so dense?
Originally posted by Starscream M
FIFY
Originally posted by Starscream M
you know what, I'm getting sick of your juvenile resort to member-bashing to anyone who disagrees with you 😠
Pretty funny, you calling me a clown when you spout crap like this and as soon as someone calls you out on it you either vanish from the thread or change your tune real quick like. Either make good with the proof that these people are significantly faster/stronger/tougher/etc, than Thor or just cease and desist all together.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI never changed my tune
Pretty funny, you calling me a clown when you spout crap like this and as soon as someone calls you out on it you either vanish from the thread or change your tune real quick like. Either make good with the proof that these people are significantly faster/stronger/tougher/etc, than Thor or just cease and desist all together.
I liked how you accused me of saying vegeta uses energy attacks to beat thor, and when I told you I never said that, you basically never responded
also, respectable posters (delph and onedumbgo) have both agreed that some form of abc logic is applicable relating to dbz characters
Originally posted by King Kandyno. thor fights at viewable speed. z fighters fight at speeds the eye can't perceive...and that's low level z fighters. higher level ones such as cell literally fight at speeds that make it seem like they're teleporting.
Thor has also moved faster than the eye can see. So no, that doesn't prove anything.
Originally posted by Starscream M
no. thor fights at viewable speed. z fighters fight at speeds the eye can't perceive...and that's low level z fighters. higher level ones such as cell literally fight at speeds that make it seem like they're teleporting.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I never changed my tuneI liked how you accused me of saying vegeta uses energy attacks to beat thor, and when I told you I never said that, you basically never responded
also, respectable posters (delph and onedumbgo) have both agreed that some form of abc logic is applicable relating to dbz characters
Lol, whatever, man.
You can't even prove what you're trying to debate whereas me and several other posters have more than proved our points. On multiple accounts.
What I accused you of is rampant feat projection of Vegeta, who's not in this thread by the way, and basically assuming that he totally outclasses Thor in every way imaginable without proof one way or the other. You basically do this in every thread, especially the ones with Thor. You get on some high horse and say that Thor loses, when it's obvious to most or at least a good percentage that he doesn't, flip out and target a specific poster, call them names and generally act like a complete ass through out the whole thing.
Even if we use ABC logic, you still can't PROVE that these people are stronger, faster, etc, than Thor, at least not to the point where he can't react, attack, or defend himself. Catching bullets? Lol. Thor's high end speed feats are better than catching bullets. Destroying mountain sides and shaking the battlefield with the force of his blows? Thor's done that, too. Shown constant ability to absorb/drain energy in astonishing speed? Yeah.
You can keep dancing around here, calling people clowns or idiots to cover up your own failings, but you still haven't proved your point, if any. You can get sore and claim that Thor only wins because of Mjolnir - a fact no one's disputed - and use that as evidence as to why Thor "sucks". Hell, you can get pissed, start screaming, and pull a hernia by trying to become a Super Saiyan for all I care, Starscream, but don't come up here with your non-proof or invalid claims and try to make me the clown, here.
It won't fly.
Taken from the respect thread that is like a few clicks, (I didn't even use them all) if even that, away from here which show Thor:
-Reacting to an out of control Mjolnir, whose flight speeds are beyond that of DBZ characters based on feats.
-Moving faster than what Heimdall of all people could react (this feat alone should really just make people STFU about Thor's speed and reflexes considering that Heimdall's senses are absurd).
-Using Mjolnir to block an instaneously telepathic blast from the Phoenix. Phuck bullets.
-Intercepting a dart in mid air with Mjolnir.
-Punking out several people with legitimate superspeed.
-Reacting in the frame of miliseconds.
-Moving in such a manner that people like Hela and damn, Adam Warlock are astounded.
-Becoming a blur of motion.
-Etc, etc, etc.
Feel free to ignore what you don't like or destroys the stance of Thor being "too slow", though.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]III. SUPERSPEEDWhile character talk can be cheap, Thor's speed has always been astonishing to his opponents. The original Black Knight shoots bolas from his lance that are literally surrounding Thor, but because of his speed, Thor knocks the lance away and evades capture. Black Knight exclaims, "I've never seen such speed... such power!!" From Avengers #6:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed05Avengers006.jpgHere, Hela only has to touch Thor in order to ensnare his soul in 1v1 combat, but is unable to do so because of his speed, "His speed, his anger, are beyond comprehension!" From Thor #354:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSpeed03354.jpgHere, while fending off two Herald-level foes, Adam Warlock likens his ability to catch his staff mid-swing and his combat speed to that of lightning, "He moves like the lightning he commands, much quicker than I remember." From Infinity Watch #23:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed20InfinityWatch23.jpgBut he has more than just subjective exclamations (no matter how reliable the speaker). What everyone really cares about are the more objective and reliable speed feats. One reliable type of speed feat is where the character moves so fast that they become a blur of motion or move too fast to be seen. Here, Thor fights Heimdall and swings his hammer down on him at speeds "moving too swiftly for the eye to follow," even too fast for Heimdall in Journey Into Mystery #125:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed06JIM125.jpgLikewise here, Thor digs a trench in a blur of motion that is "almost too fast for the human eye to follow." From Marvel Team-Up #26:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpgAnd here, while helping rebuild Asgard, Thor hammers down repeatedly on a pillar and "becomes a blur of motion" in Thor #267:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed14267.jpgThor's combat reflex speed feats are impressive in their own right. Here, Thor reacts to a knife being swung down only inches from his face with a mighty heave in Thor #218:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed11218.jpgThor reacts and swats away arrows that are only a few feet away from hitting him from behind in Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed23v207.jpgHere, Thor is about to have his face smashed by a cursed Mjolnir which is zooming back to him, but he moves swiftly enough on reaction to dodge it in Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed25.jpgThor reacts to Wrecker swinging his mystic crowbar onto Thor's head from behind. Literally only inches away, Thor moves so swiftly once again, he snatches the crowbar with his hand in Thor vol. 2 #29:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed27v229.jpgAnother common way to measure those is to see how well Thor does against speedsters. Here, Thor builds a trench around crazed citizens and Avengers, including a zooming Quicksilver in Avengers #98:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed09Avengers098.jpgHere, Thor punks the Newman speedster, Juvan, who was created by the High Evolutionary, using nothing but his bare hands in Thor #447:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17447.jpgHere, Thor catches another High Evolutionary creation who possesses superspeed, the godling, Zefra in Thor #475:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed21475.jpgAnd Thor has punked the superspeedster, Hermes, the literal Greek God of Speed, not just once, but twice in Avengers #281 and Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed16Avengers281.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed24.jpgBut even superspeedsters can job and it's difficult to quantify exactly how fast they are going in each instance. But Thor does have directly measurable superspeed feats. Here, he literally snatches a fired tank shell out of mid-air with his bare hand in Journey Into Mystery #93:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed02JIM93.jpgAnd similarly snatches a fired missile with his bare hand in Marvel Team-Up #148:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15b-MarvelTeamup148.jpgHere, we see Thor flying outside a window and when Jane Foster gets his attention, Thor manages to intercept Cobra's poison dart within a split-second. The dart is fired before he even is inside the room, just to give you the proper frame of reference to understand the speed and reflexes necessary in Journey Into Mystery #98:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpgHere, in the space of one and one-fifth seconds, Thor dives out of the sky, smashes Mjolnir down and causes a shockwave to divert a runaway truck from killing a young boy ACROSS the city in Journey Into Mystery #108:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed04JIM108.jpgHere, in the space of micro-seconds before a zooming cursed Mjolnir will strike Thor from behind, Thor lays a haymaker onto an Enchanter and spins around in time to snatch Mjolnir in mid-air, from Thor #144:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed08144.jpgNow we all know Thor has stopped bullets and energy beams by spinning Mjolnir around. And it's been argued that he has to do that because he's not fast enough to block them traditionally with Mjolnir or bat them away. After all, he'd require faster than bullet ("FTB"😉 and faster than light ("FTL"😉 combat speed reflexes to do so. However, these next scans should dispel ANY doubt whether he does possess FTB or FTL combat speed reflexes since he deflects bullets and energy blasts by moving or swinging Mjolnir once rather than by spinning Mjolnir. Here, with FTB speed, he deflects two bullets with a single swing way back in Journey Into Mystery #100:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03aJIM100.jpgAs for FTL reactions that can be measured in nanoseconds (light travels one foot per nanosecond), he's swung and swatted away Blastaar's energy blasts in Thor #270:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15270.jpgFar from a one-off FTL feat, he does the same to Mole Man's energy blaster shot in Marvel Two-In-One #96:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15aMarvelTwo-In-One96.jpgHere, Enchantress shoots a blast at Captain America and Thor reacts with FTL speed to cut off the energy blast in mid-flight, from Marvel Comics Presents #44:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpgPhoenix shoots a telepathic blast at a groggy Thor at the moment Thor's arms are at his side. AFTER the shot is fired and already traveling at him, Thor raises his arms and reflects it back with Mjolnir. Telepathy being instantaneous traditionally (as noted in the narration), we can assume for the sake of argument that it was only traveling at light-speed, making this another FTL feat, from Excalibur #428:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed18428.jpg[/B]
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except when it's been stated in narrative or by the other people present stating "he's moved too fast for me to see".
Moving too fast to see is kind of a regular thing in manga, from meta/high meta characters. Kenshin does it all the time, and Ranma.
Ranma actually stuffed an entire turkey dinner down this guys throat in front of onlookers, faster than they could see, and stole their snacks to boot. It was an eating competition, with the object being to complete their meals without showing signs of actually eating or even moving in front of an audience, and Ranma's opponent had a super flexible mouth he couldn't compete with. So his solution was to force his meal down his opponents throat, and fill him up with any snacks he could get his hands on.
No clue how fast you'd have to be to pull that off, but it's a fairly typical anime/manga feat.
I do think Z is much faster than that though, but don't think using "Faster than the eye can see" feats or comments is the way to go about proving it, except maybe where the comments come from another speedster...
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol, whatever, man.You can't even prove what you're trying to debate whereas me and several other posters have more than proved our points. On multiple accounts.
What I accused you of is rampant feat projection of Vegeta, who's not in this thread by the way, and basically assuming that he totally outclasses Thor in every way imaginable without proof one way or the other. You basically do this in every thread, especially the ones with Thor. You get on some high horse and say that Thor loses, when it's obvious to most or at least a good percentage that he doesn't, flip out and target a specific poster, call them names and generally act like a complete ass through out the whole thing.
Even if we use ABC logic, you still can't PROVE that these people are stronger, faster, etc, than Thor, at least not to the point where he can't react, attack, or defend himself. Catching bullets? Lol. Thor's high end speed feats are better than catching bullets. Destroying mountain sides and shaking the battlefield with the force of his blows? Thor's done that, too. Shown constant ability to absorb/drain energy in astonishing speed? Yeah.
You can keep dancing around here, calling people clowns or idiots to cover up your own failings, but you still haven't proved your point, if any. You can get sore and claim that Thor only wins because of Mjolnir - a fact no one's disputed - and use that as evidence as to why Thor "sucks". Hell, you can get pissed, start screaming, and pull a hernia by trying to become a Super Saiyan for all I care, Starscream, but don't come up here with your non-proof or invalid claims and try to make me the clown, here.
It won't fly.
perfect cell eh? ki attacks are all nullified by mjolnir and cell has to fight hand to hand. even if perfect cell can fight at the speed of light, which i dont think he can, thor has enough showings to prove that he has enough speed and the reflex to tag light speed opponents. and when thor lands a smack down on cell, its all over.
also, i'll also be very bold and say that thor can tank any ki attach cell throws at him. sun's core>any dbz ki attack.
