Revan vs Dooku

truejedi
Be careful Faunus. Only defeat, embarassment, and unsubstantiated speculation waits for those who attempts to prove anything is or isn't true about Revan.

And explain why this

You
He very possibly ran circles around malak,turning around to fire every ten seconds or so, never allowing Malak (a very STUPID opponent, if I might add) to get close enough to swing his lightsaber. Dooku is NOT stupid ... so such a strategy would never work with him.

truejedi
[Dooku] has never been potrayed as stupid

truejedi
So no game mechanics? ... (please please please say yes)

Impress me.

Originally posted by Enyalus

It's observation, not statement. Mandalore the Indomitable did very well against Ulic, Mandalore the Ultimate was basically feared by Malak and Zayne Carrick (and lost his duel with Revan), Canderous Ordo was Mandalore and helped defeat multiple Sith, Jango Fett killed multiple Jedi with his bare hands and, aside from what you think, I thought he did fine against Obi-Wan in AOTC, and Boba went toe-to-toe with Vader and held his own, on more than one occasion. Mandalores have a history of being a match for a Jedi. Not statement. Empirical evidence.

citation needed for Mandalore the Ultimate being feared by Malak and Zayne. And why should Malak fearing someone mean ANYTHING? What did Malak ever do that was powerful?

Jango doesn't have lightsaber resistant armor unlike the Mandalore Revan beat with, apparently, a blaster? Unless your argument is that blaster > lightsaber.

Citation needed for Revan's weapon of choice. How do you know?

Pardon? It was your assertion that the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, empowered by a powerful dark side artifact and multiple Jedi lifeforces to feed on isn't on the level of Dooku. Perhaps you should prove that, since you said it.

YOur Question:

Mandalores are always a match for a Jedi, and if Revan killed him with a blaster through his lightsaber-resistant armor, exactly what makes you think Dooku would do any better?

I gave my answer. You need to respond. Don't try to shift the burden of proof.

I'm not understanding how any of this is relevant. Revan apparently isn't wielding a lightsaber here, according to your posit. And Ventress' Force abilities are laughable - akin to Maul's.

I'm saying if it doesn't exist in-universe, it doesn't exist. You want bacta patches? Okay. Insta-heals? No, sorry.

Considering that he was a fully trained Jedi Knight (I think the Essential Atlas calls him a Jedi Master, though?) I would assume at bare minimum the standard Force Push, Saber Throw, etc. However, why are you asking me this? It's not like you're allowing for him to actually do anything with the Force. He's gonna shoot at Dooku from about 30 meters away with his blaster, amirite? [/B]

I have no idea. Neither do you. If you don't know if he is any good with a lightsaber its hard to say he is better than dooku, who was a master swordsman.

If you don't know if he uses a blaster, its hard to say he is good enough with one that he can shoot dooku.

Your position is indefensible. You can't even begin to say what advantages Revan has over Dooku, because its unknown its why for anyone saying revan wins, it is good enough for me to say

"How?"

So En, if you want to save us both a hassle, answer THAT question, and that question alone.

Revan wins. How?

Originally posted by Eminence
Why would Dooku's intellect better equip him to deal with a gunman?

How do you know Revan is a gunman? Perhaps he is horrible with a blaster. Perhaps he is simply a stealthy mines expert. Fact is, we don't know.

Nothing that exists only as a game mechanic, yes.

Impress me.

good. So basically we know NOTHING about any force powers learned by Revan. if we can agree there, I am happy.

This is becoming hopelessly convoluted, TJ. Wasn't one of your first arguments in this thread that Revan could have been using a blaster for all you knew? I was generous enough to accept that proposition and argue from there. If you are then going to claim that he might not have a blaster, and we switch back to Revan using a lightsaber again, then I suggest you look at my first serious comment in this thread back on page 1:

Originally posted by Enyalus
I don't really care whether Revan is more powerful than Dooku or not, even though my opinion is that he probably is - and might've possessed a lot of Force knowledge that Dooku doesn't have - because it's kind of irrelevant. We know that Dooku was a nearly unparalleled swordsman, whereas there is no credible evidence to suggest that Revan was. Dooku wins the majority on the strength of his lightsaber skills alone.

tHIS IS THE TROUBLE WITH USING A SCRIPTED ARGUMENT: AS NEW SITUATIONS ARISE IT CAN BECOME OUT OF DATE.

eN, tj WASN'T ARGUING THAT rEVAN ACTUALLY USED A BLASTER, BUT RATHER THAT THE ASSERTION "REVAN USES A BLASTER" IS AS DEFENSIBLE AS "REVAN USES A LIGHTSABER." i DO NOT BELIEVE THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY TAKING A POSITION ON THE rEVAN/dOOKU QUESTION, BUT RATHER ATTEMPTING TO CAST THE QUESTION ITSELF INTO DISREPUTE.

En: Then we agree then. Your first post is basically my entire take on the Revan problem.

I was, however, responding to this post from page 6.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dude. If Revan killed Malak on the Star Forge with a blaster and kill Mandalore the Ultimate with a blaster, it'd make a pretty compelling case for him being able to kill Dooku with one, as well.

😐

Killing Malak or Mandalore with a blaster might only mean Malak is lousy at blocking blaster bolts, or Mandalore has chinks in his armor (like eye holes maybe?)

Not that i'm saying revan actually used a blaster, we can't know that. It was a suggestion. Perhaps he also used stealth and mines. perhaps he hung back and let his friends do most of the killing, and Malak made a terrible mistake in their duel or something. We just can't know.

If there are, say 10,000 fighters in the mythos, Say dooku is in the top 50, and Revan is unknown, all statistical probabilities point at dooku being better than the unknown revan.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
eN, tj WASN'T ARGUING THAT rEVAN ACTUALLY USED A BLASTER, BUT RATHER THAT THE ASSERTION "REVAN USES A BLASTER" IS AS DEFENSIBLE AS "REVAN USES A LIGHTSABER." i DO NOT BELIEVE THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY TAKING A POSITION ON THE rEVAN/dOOKU QUESTION, BUT RATHER ATTEMPTING TO CAST THE QUESTION ITSELF INTO DISREPUTE.

yes, what red said cause he is smart.

Originally posted by truejedi
yes, what red said cause he is smart.

Smarter than suggesting that eye holes were chinks in Mandalore's helmet's visor made from transparisteel. biscuits

hey, its a possibility. : ) is that mandalore the ultimate for sure?

The obvious weakness there would be the lack of peripheral ****ing vision. Dude's ****ed if someone moves to his right or left.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Thank you, Captain Obvious. Because what TJ was doing was definitely over my head.

Originally posted by truejedi
hey, its a possibility. : ) is that mandalore the ultimate for sure?

Originally posted by truejedi
If there are, say 10,000 fighters in the mythos, Say dooku is in the top 50, and Revan is unknown, all statistical probabilities point at dooku being better than the unknown revan.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you post in a while. Revan isn't just some random dude. He was the most powerful person in the galaxy at that time. Statistical probabilities don't mean shit in this instance.

truejedi
How do you know Revan is a gunman?

truejedi
Revan was faster than Malak. He very possibly ran circles around malak,turning around to fire every ten seconds or so

truejedi
Perhaps he is horrible with a blaster. Perhaps he is simply a stealthy mines expert. Fact is, we don't know.

It is stupid. Very, very stupid.

And if you're suggesting that he killed his saber-wielding former apprentice with mines - if you've looked at Anakin vs. Durge you'd realize how easily a Jedi deals with those - in an enclosed space aboard a space station, more power to him.

Really.

truejedi
good. So basically we know NOTHING about any force powers learned by Revan. if we can agree there, I am happy.

Every power in the game exists outside the game. Every power he has is listed in the KOTOR Campaign Guide. The Rakata explicitly attribute lightning and advanced telepathy to him in the game. We know plenty about his Force powers.

I repeat: stop it.

Isn't there a picture showing Revan standing over a defeated Malak and Revan was wielding a blue lightsaber? If this picture is canon, it implies that Revan used a lightsaber to beat Malak, which makes sense; how could Revan beat a sith lord by using blasters and mines unless if he were the best blaster wielder and trap setter in the SW mythos? If he was, then that might work WELL against Dooku since Makashi isn't well suited to blocking blaster bolts.

Originally posted by Eminence
😐

Every power in the game exists outside the game. Every power he has is listed in the KOTOR Campaign Guide. The Rakata explicitly attribute lightning and advanced telepathy to him in the game. We know plenty about his Force powers.

I repeat: stop it.

"In the Lehon system, the Republic clashes with the Sith at the Battle of Rakata Prime. Revan defeats Darth Malak in a duel, the Republic defeats the Sith Empire, and the Jedi Civil War comes to an end."

Meaning Revan did not beat him by setting traps/using mines, nor did anyone else fight against Malak during their battle...and unless Malak agreed to take ten paces and draw, it also pretty much rules out Revan using a blaster.

Don't be ridiculous.

Spoiler:
Of course Malak used a blaster.

@Faunus: Now I didn't know there was a written source at this point for KOTOR, can you link it or something please. If its all written down, I concede everything, its news and new to me.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That reminds me.....going by that same source (page 113), the guide states that,

"In the Lehon system, the Republic clashes with the Sith at the Battle of Rakata Prime. Revan defeats Darth Malak in a duel, the Republic defeats the Sith Empire, and the Jedi Civil War comes to an end."

Meaning Revan did not beat him by setting traps/using mines, nor did anyone else fight against Malak during their battle...and unless Malak agreed to take ten paces and draw, it also pretty much rules out Revan using a blaster.

Still doesn't rule out that revan may have resorted to dirty tricks during the duel, like you know wielding a blaster and then drawing his lightsaber.. not saying its true but in a "duel" which was never actually shown, theres far too many variables and speculation.