Atheism

Originally posted by 753
how d'ya cope with that much self-loathing? it must be exhausting

Whether or not there are a billion people in front of you in the line to the Lake of Fire shouldn't matter.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36)

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)

"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:12)

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son." (1 John 5:10)

"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not." (Jude 1:5)

"Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved." (Luke 8:12)

"[b]But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." (Isaiah 64:6)

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23)

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

"Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death." (Proverbs 7:27)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." (Psalm 14:1)

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Hebrews 9:27)[/B]

And I see nothing in there that says that all must take place in the flesh.

Checkmate. 🙂

Originally posted by Oliver North
So, if there is a Heaven, there is some type of hell, no?

No. There is no such thing as hell.

Originally posted by Oliver North
Could anyone honestly say they were in Heaven if they had the knowledge that people were suffering eternal torment?

That might bring the mood down for me.

Things change a bit if you realize that those who are in "hell" actually chose to be in that state of existence. So, no, not such a downer if you know everyone is where they want to be.

Originally posted by Astner
Actually, I'd image that the realization of one's worth and an understanding of it—whether accurate or not—would be more liberating than to vaguely attributing oneself as normal.

Whether or not there are a billion people in front of you in the line to the Lake of Fire shouldn't matter.

quite right, it wouldn't matter. it is one's sense of belonging to that long line that would, in the first place.

the logic of salvation from eternal damnation through religeous conversion and adoration of the christian deity sure helped christianity spread.

It's really quite brilliant:

1. everyone is going to hell, in principle, because we are born tainted by sins we did not commit and premarital sex is as foul as rape/murder/torture/slavery (this doesn't include instances of rape murder and torture sanctioned by god in the scriptures. those are ok)

2. but our god is great, merciful, fair and not vindictive, so even the worst of the lot will go to a place of eternal bliss, if they simply worship him and join our flocks.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And I see nothing in there that says that all must take place in the flesh.

Checkmate. 🙂

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Hebrews 9:27)

That's pretty clear, imo.

If you die in unbelief, you die in your sins, and you go to hell. There is no second chance.

All of those scriptures I posted make that pretty clear, I think.

@Bat Dude:

While I understand why you quote Scripture, certainly it must be apparent to you that the quotes simply don't have the impact you intend on those you're debating with. Is there some other way you could make your point, some other source or material, or perhaps even personal experience?

One of the problems I see with Batdude is that he doesn't understand the difference between a proposition of the form "It is the case that A says B" and the proposition of the form "It is the case that B" when it comes to The Bible.

Originally posted by Mindship
@Bat Dude:

While I understand why you quote Scripture, certainly it must be apparent to you that the quotes simply don't have the impact you intend on those you're debating with. Is there some other way you could make your point, some other source or material, or perhaps even personal experience?

I quote Scripture because this is a doctrinal issue, and the Bible is the Word of God. Whether someone believes it or not doesn't change that. And since dadudemon says he is a Christian, I would assume he would feel the same way about the Bible as I do.

And if he does, Scripture shows that he is wrong in his assertion. (I'm not the one that's right, the Bible is)

And if he doesn't, well then that's an entirely different issue.

Pretty sure DDD has never said he's Christian.

He's a Mormon and has made no secret of this.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pretty sure DDD has never said he's Christian.

He's a Mormon and has made no secret of this.

I was under the impression most Mormons identified Mormonism as Christianity.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was under the impression most Mormons identified Mormonism as Christianity.

If you believe that Jesus died, then resurrected, then you are a Christian. All the other beliefs depend on denominations and traditions and rules and rites...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was under the impression most Mormons identified Mormonism as Christianity.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Even if they do, they don't use the Christian Bible as their scripture, so Batdude's quoting the Bible to DDD is almost as pointless as quoting it to an atheist.

I think you are wrong on that. The Bible is the basis for Mormonism. The Book of Mormon is an extension of it, not a replacement.

Originally posted by 753
if by the realization of one's worth you mean a belief in one's worthlessness and a deservence of eternal suffering as his post explicitly states, sure. whatever floats your boat.

Just like it would be comfortable to work out a payment plan with your bank for your credit, even though you'll have less money to spend.

Originally posted by 753
quite right, it wouldn't matter. it is one's sense of belonging to that long line that would, in the first place.

heh, astner psych

Originally posted by Astner
It's not the realization of eternal suffering that comforts you, it's the realization that you can do something about it.

Except that Bat Dude doesn't believe there is anything you can do about it

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Except that Bat Dude doesn't believe there is anything you can do about it

Originally posted by Astner
So he believes he's going to hell?

He believes that he is fundamentally worthless and profane, that is a defining feature of humanity in his theology. God's grace is what (which cannot be earned through any action) will save him from hell, despite the fact that he deserves it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He believes that he is fundamentally worthless and profane, that is a defining feature of humanity in his theology. God's grace is what (which cannot be earned through any action) will save him from hell, despite the fact that he deserves it.