Originally posted by Lord LucienHow do you think Mace stacks up to OT Vader as far as the Force goes? Cause didn't Marek trash him?
He's got a powerful command of the Force to boot, so Marek won't be TKing his ass either. And Vaapad's not exactly something Marek's used to. I'm not saying it would be easy, but Marek would have to score a KO within minutes, lest Mace submerge.
Juyo vs Vaapad? Interesting fight . . . yet I'm going to have to go with Galen on this one. Galen in the novelization had trouble with Shaak Ti yes because he had truly faced a skilled and disiplined lightsaber artist. As to Vader, Galen pawned him because of his superior ability in the Force. Mace wouldn't be kicking his ass in lightsaber, but Mace's ass would be getting kicked by Galen in the Force fight.
Galen vs Obi-Wan? Tough call. Obi-Wan was the absolute master of Soresu. Marek was probably superior in Force strength and that would tip the scale of the fight. Galen then turns on Vader and Juyo vs Djem So. The Chosen One vs The Orphan. Tough call.
Blax
Even those two statements there, justas you said them and worded them, don't correlate at all. 😬
😐
So let me get this straight: Galen saying that Marek will lose because of Mace's Vaapad has no correlation with me disproving that Vaapad doesn't grant Windu an automatic win?
Right....
Gideon
But if you want, we can pretend that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with it.
👆
Originally posted by GideonLet me try to break down my opinion on a Mace/Galen battle on every possible level...
So let me get this straight: Galen saying that Marek will lose because of Mace's Vaapad has no correlation with me disproving that Vaapad doesn't grant Windu an automatic win?
Imo, RotS Sidious > dark Jedi Galen (I think everyone would agree with that.) Mace no less than stalemated RotS Sidious. That being said, if Mace can stalemate Sidious, then he should logically be able to defeat a dark sider whom is weaker than Sidious (Galen.)
In a nutshell: RotS Mace = RotS Sidious > dark Jedi Galen... And that's not factoring in abilities like Shatterpoint.
I honestly cannot make my opinion any clearer then that. ermm
Originally posted by ares834
That's ABC logic at its finest...
I see, so we never factor actual combat fights into equations to come to logical conclusions about other fights? Of course not, because when they do prove a logical point, the old your using an ABC argument gets brought into play yet again. Honestly, you do know that actual combat situations and vs fights are some of the best proof you can look to when breaking down other fights right? Or do you never consider any vs battles since they Ar3 Th3 ABC L0G1C!!!!!
Except when someone comes straight out and claims "RotS Mace = RotS Sidious > dark Jedi Galen" it's flawed... Sure stalemating Sidious is a very impresive feat, but claiming that it insatantly makes him superior is flawed. There are other factors involved than just POWA LVLZ!!1!1
Anyway, I want to point out that when Sidious used the force against Mace during their lightsaber duel he was hit hard. And Galen Marek is very talanted at flowing into force attacks during lightsaber duels. Just a small consideration.
^ That, no offense, was extraordinarily inept.
A duel to the death between two sufficiently skilled Force users involves a lot moar factors than bench-pressing. Bench-pressing is fairly straightforward and fairly simple; duels require a complex series of actions, sequences, and movements -- and that's just with the lightsaber.
Vaapad didn't make Windu infallible in that match, the novelization and screenplay both depict him falling victim to a Force push, not to mention that it didn't stop his teammates from dying (if Windu's Vaapad was perfect, then he should have been able to annihilate Sidious with the assistance of the other Masters) nor did it prevent him from being driven back into the main office.
You can't automatically assume that circumstances would occur to allow Windu to defeat a more powerful adversary just because he managed to do so before.
@ Gideon...
i think you dun lost your touch, son. u try to throw out insults @ people who dont agree with you even though they are right. its kind of funny and sad at the same time. youve made no good points in this thread (and ive read the whole thing) all you do is cling to one or two things that seem to help your argument and ignore the numerous things that contradict you. give it a rest kid.
newayz, team 1 wins for reason that hav already been mentioned.
ja
@ Gideon...i think you dun lost your touch, son. u try to throw out insults @ people who dont agree with you even though they are right. its kind of funny and sad at the same time. youve made no good points in this thread (and ive read the whole thing) all you do is cling to one or two things that seem to help your argument and ignore the numerous things that contradict you. give it a rest kid.
newayz, team 1 wins for reason that hav already been mentioned.
Guess you missed the part where I said I was teasing Galan? And here I thought you said you read the whole thing. 😐
Spoiler:
In either case, you certainly aren't someone whose opinion matters to me, since I don't have the foggiest idea who you are. But I appreciate the fact that you really think enough of me to stalk me here. I love being the center of someone else's universe. 🙂
Originally posted by Gideon
^ That, no offense, was extraordinarily inept.A duel to the death between two sufficiently skilled Force users involves a lot moar factors than bench-pressing. Bench-pressing is fairly straightforward and fairly simple; duels require a complex series of actions, sequences, and movements -- and that's just with the lightsaber.
Vaapad didn't make Windu infallible in that match, the novelization and screenplay both depict him falling victim to a Force push, not to mention that it didn't stop his teammates from dying (if Windu's Vaapad was perfect, then he should have been able to annihilate Sidious with the assistance of the other Masters) nor did it prevent him from being driven back into the main office.
You can't automatically assume that circumstances would occur to allow Windu to defeat a more powerful adversary just because he managed to do so before.
Originally posted by ares834
Let's do some more ABC logic...Anakin>Dooku>Obi-Wan>Anakin?
TPM Mace Windu = Qui-Gon < Darth Maul < TPM Obi-Wan
Mace Windu = RotS Sidious = Yoda
Jedi Exile > Nihilus > 100's of Jedi
The list goes on and on.
Originally posted by Gideonwink1
Guess you missed the part where I said I was teasing Galan?
Originally posted by Gideon
^ That, no offense, was extraordinarily inept.A duel to the death between two sufficiently skilled Force users involves a lot moar factors than bench-pressing. Bench-pressing is fairly straightforward and fairly simple; duels require a complex series of actions, sequences, and movements -- and that's just with the lightsaber.
Vaapad didn't make Windu infallible in that match, the novelization and screenplay both depict him falling victim to a Force push, not to mention that it didn't stop his teammates from dying (if Windu's Vaapad was perfect, then he should have been able to annihilate Sidious with the assistance of the other Masters) nor did it prevent him from being driven back into the main office.
You can't automatically assume that circumstances would occur to allow Windu to defeat a more powerful adversary just because he managed to do so before.
What do you mean "perfect"?