Ganondorf(tp) vs. Hylden Lord(BO2)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also about the demon world part, I admit I did not know that simply entering the realm made you immortal and not able to die, certainly not permanently. I thought Kain was only canonically unkillable because the timeline is immutable and therefore he cannot die, but it seems according to you Kain is canonically unkillable regardless of timeline....interesting...

Where is this info from? I dont recall it being said in the games...

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes he did, but what I am saying is, it still sliced him. We dont know if it would bounce off his body if he had the triforce at that point. My argument is not that just stabbing him in the chest would kill him, my argument is that he can be sliced, and has never shown not to be able to. His flesh is cuttable by swords.

I am not sure, what weapons are used against Ganondorf in the canon, e.g. is there a cutscene where a normal sword bounces off Ganondorf?

I admit, he does not have many powers. Hylden lord can teleport, he has the soulreaver which will reave souls on strike and he can shoot blasts of energy that knock Kain down. He can re-materialise after falling so his teleport works in mid-flight. The Hylden lord can instantly possess beings across dimensions and even after death, his spirit can possess across miles of land. But it seems Qunachi wants this to be a sword fight so i think such unfair powers have been removed.

Light Arrows, which would normally vaporize other targets, simply stun him for a while. In his Beast Ganon form, when Link has his Master Sword disarmed from him he is forced to use other weapons(Megaton Hammer, Biggoron Sword, Light Arrows, Hookshot) to fight him, none of which cause significant damage unless when hit on Ganon's tail, which is his weak spot.

I'm not sure how Ganondorf can handle soul steal and possesion. How fast can he teleport?

Yes but were the Hylden not already immortal? I am not sure thats enough to suggest that Kain gained the power not to die at all from stepping into the demon realm although I wont argue it if that is indeed the case. The ancient vampires (or winged race before they became vampires) were not immortal, the Elder God only spoke to them as a God because they were part of his cycle of birth/death/rebirth in his wheel of fate but did he not hate the Hylden for being immortal?

But yes, Kain cannot die due to the immutable timeline and destiny, Amy Herring describes it as "he survives because his nature as the Scion of balance allows him to survive" therefore it is in Kains own nature to survive.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes but were the Hylden not already immortal? I am not sure thats enough to suggest that Kain gained the power not to die at all from stepping into the demon realm although I wont argue it if that is indeed the case. The ancient vampires (or winged race before they became vampires) were not immortal, the Elder God only spoke to them as a God because they were part of his cycle of birth/death/rebirth in his wheel of fate but did he not hate the Hylden for being immortal?

Originally posted by Burning thought
But yes, Kain cannot die due to the immutable timeline and destiny, Amy Herring describes it as "he survives because his nature as the Scion of balance allows him to survive" therefore it is in Kains own nature to survive.

Originally posted by MadMel
no. The EG hated the Hylden because they didn't worship him. Simple as that.

Yes but even he can't influence someone to create a portal to the demon world while his heart is being ripped out 😬

Yes, I see now. The Hylden lord does say that the Demon dimension ensures their immortality but of what kind? All Vampires are immortal in the sense that they do not die of old age like elves in other fictions. But they can still die. It is not implied that beings simply cannot die in there, for example Kain kills demons within that realm so although Hylden may not bei mmortla and gain it in the demon world, what does Kain who is already immortal gain? does he gain anything for afterall he is immortal outside of it, does he take the gift with him? for he still does not have his heart, the anchor to flesh that keeps him alive...

Nobody created the portal. The dimentions were weak and Raziels Tk was strong enough to break Kain through them. Perhaps it is indeed co-incidence but perhaps Kain is the beacon of co-incidence.

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
Okay.

Light Arrows, which would normally vaporize other targets, simply stun him for a while. In his Beast Ganon form, when Link has his Master Sword disarmed from him he is forced to use other weapons(Megaton Hammer, Biggoron Sword, Light Arrows, Hookshot) to fight him, none of which cause significant damage unless when hit on Ganon's tail, which is his weak spot.

I'm not sure how Ganondorf can handle soul steal and possesion. How fast can he teleport?

I see, but this does indeed prove that Ganondorf "can" be harmed without using the MS. Even if its only on his tail (just being his tail could be a gameplay mechanic as I cannot belive his flesh is so much stronger on his chest than his tial but it could be possible). What about Ganondorf, in his humanoid form?

The teleportation is pretty quick, almost instant I would say, I think Ganondorfs best bet is to use teleportation and hope to get critical strikes on the Hylden Lord who wears heavy armour. Its fairly featless durabilitywise but I am sure we can both assume that steel armour has some durability in it. Heres the Hylden lord teleporting:

GfN0C0Y22pU&feature=related

Its a bit quick but at 2:21 he teleports and is instantly across the room. And at 3:03 you see him fall off and then appear a second later behind Kain. The Hylden Lord also shows the power to excist out of body for a moment at least, as he speaks to Kain before he is even present.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes, I see now. The Hylden lord does say that the Demon dimension ensures their immortality but of what kind? All Vampires are immortal in the sense that they do not die of old age like elves in other fictions. But they can still die. It is not implied that beings simply cannot die in there, for example Kain kills demons within that realm so although Hylden may not bei mmortla and gain it in the demon world, what does Kain who is already immortal gain? does he gain anything for afterall he is immortal outside of it, does he take the gift with him? for he still does not have his heart, the anchor to flesh that keeps him alive...

Nobody created the portal. The dimentions were weak and Raziels Tk was strong enough to break Kain through them. Perhaps it is indeed co-incidence but perhaps Kain is the beacon of co-incidence.

Too right, apprently theres some interest from the current Eidios CEO to continue the series and apprently some sources point to it being possible despite Amy Herring moving on and Tony Jay passing away. Theres always a chance that it will be continued, afterall the scrips are likely still in excistence.

A lot of things are unclear.

Yea, they need to fill the massive holes BO2 had in it's plot 😛

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see, but this does indeed prove that Ganondorf "can" be harmed without using the MS. Even if its only on his tail (just being his tail could be a gameplay mechanic as I cannot belive his flesh is so much stronger on his chest than his tial but it could be possible). What about Ganondorf, in his humanoid form?

The teleportation is pretty quick, almost instant I would say, I think Ganondorfs best bet is to use teleportation and hope to get critical strikes on the Hylden Lord who wears heavy armour. Its fairly featless durabilitywise but I am sure we can both assume that steel armour has some durability in it. Heres the Hylden lord teleporting:

GfN0C0Y22pU&feature=related

Its a bit quick but at 2:21 he teleports and is instantly across the room. And at 3:03 you see him fall off and then appear a second later behind Kain. The Hylden Lord also shows the power to excist out of body for a moment at least, as he speaks to Kain before he is even present.

Indeed, his teleport is rather fast. Although his sword can be blocked by Kain's arms? 😕 I'd say a punch or two from Dorf could finish him off. How does he do his soul steal?

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
None of the other weapons can be used to deliver the finishing blow BTW. And it took 3 slashes to the face and a stab through the forehead from the MS to weaken Ganon enough to be sealed by the 7 sages. For Dorf, the Light Arrow thingy.

Indeed, his teleport is rather fast. Although his sword can be blocked by Kain's arms? 😕 I'd say a punch or two from Dorf could finish him off. How does he do his soul steal?

Its a shame Link makes wounds but does not behead Ganon hmm...

He does not have his own soul steal, it comes from the sword. He has to strike Ganondorf with it. So Hyldens tactic will probably be to avoid Ganondorf through teleport and then to simply teleport up and slash him. Then hes won. It probably depends on luck. Who hits who first etc.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its a shame Link makes wounds but does not behead Ganon hmm...

He does not have his own soul steal, it comes from the sword. He has to strike Ganondorf with it. So Hyldens tactic will probably be to avoid Ganondorf through teleport and then to simply teleport up and slash him. Then hes won. It probably depends on luck. Who hits who first etc.

And the Hylden lord would win if he slashes Dorf with a surprise teleport. So theres a fair chance either can win. Ofc if Quanchi allowedpossession, the Hylden lord if defeated or before the fight will possess Ganondorf anyway.

The hylden lords projectiles will not be much use as their mostly featless.

Dun forget Ganondorf has possession too.131

Ganondorf can posses too.

How? through using the misty form of twilight?

Originally posted by Burning thought
How? through using the misty form of twilight?

Well, we know godly you think that "mist" is....

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Well, we know how godly you think that "mist" is....

Slight correction and yes mist is an incredible form for avoiding solid harm but if you have to transform into a mist and enter someone through it its a lot less useful than simply possessing them instantly without any contact.

Is there any proof that it's instant? We don't know how long he could've been casting that.

There is two kinds of proof. The first is the fact he was only just released from the dimention hes been trapped in. The second is Kain had only just killed Hashagik which the hylden lord had previously been possessing. An instant later and Janos is possessed. Also casting? its not a spell afaik...

Turel was being possessed by several Hylden according to wiki, which handily proves that the Hylden could possess even while sealed, so the seal breaking means nothing. He could have been preparing for a long time.