Originally posted by The Scenario
Do you know why it didn't look like the the other soldiers? Because that's what a soldier looks like when he's actually immersed in twilight. Midna even said he was a soldier. I've told you before that those other guys just touched it for a fraction of a second; they never entered it like that guy did. Why could you possibly think I'm trying to trick you? You're just clinging to something that doesn't actually exist.Me? I didn't say it was magic first. If you want to argue that, you could take it up with Zelda:
0:45-1:00, preferably. "What binds him is a different magic than what transformed him when he first entered the curtain of twilight. It is an evil power"
Or you could take it up with Midna:
1:09, about. "This thing is the embodiment of the evil magic that Zant cast on you. It's definitely different from our tribe's shadow magic..."(Her tribe's magic is the Fused Shadows, just so you know)
Hell, you could take that one to Zant:
Around 1:40, "This power is granted to me by my god! It is the magic of the King of Twilight and you will respect it!"
Also, that shows what you know. The scene where Zant takes Hyrule is not the intro of Twilight Princess. It'd be a little difficult to prove that the twilight lasts so long, simply because it does last so long. Twilight does not disperse until Link collects the Tears of Light needed to revive the Light Spirit so they can drive it away.
Here, you can watch 9 minutes of Link running around in twilight hunting for Tears of Light. Just a heads up, the video ends before Link finishes. I could post the second video, which also consists of 9 minutes of pure twilight, but this post is already video heavy.
Ah, what the hell, here's 9 more minutes of nothing but twilight.
Again, not the intro, but let's watch it again, just make sure.
2:11, whoa, twilight cloud. That didn't even take a whole second.
2:20, a couple guys barely brush the cloud.
2:23, a guy touches it for a split second.
2:38, woo, tiny cloud is gone, now for the big one.
3:54, the big one. That covers all of Hyrule and takes less than 4 seconds.Yeah, the Fused Shadows/Mirror Shards do it all, huh? You remember the effects those things had, right? Oh, like Darbus, you remember him? Just touching one of those things transformed him into a monster, took over his mind, and possessed him.
Try, 3:55, about.
And you remember sweet little Yeta? One look at a Mirror Shard and she turned into that possessed ice monster Blizzeta.
0:45.
Of course, Ganondorf shattered the Mirror of Twilight offscreen, but we know it was him.
From the beginning to about 1:20.
"You seek it...but the Mirror of Twilight has been fragmented by mighty magic. That magic is a dark power only he possesses...
His name is...Ganondorf.And you remember him crushing the Fused Shadows, right? It was a rather epic scene.
0:28, if you forgot.
And if you didn't say TK, who did? Oh, right, it [b]was
you:[quote=Burning Thought]Thats crap TK, the only one thats strong at all is when he smashes the lightspirit. And your forgetting TK again, assuming the Hylden lord cant just dematerialise and possess he kills himself just so he can possess Ganondorf. Or just teleport/slashes him.
NemeBro told you about Zant's TK, and then you told him he forgot about TK. That's just odd, unless you meant that he forgot the Hylden Lord's TK, which is what you were saying there.
Have fun watching 50+ minutes of pure, goddamned evidence. [/B][/QUOTE]
No I mean his armour, his overall appearance does not look like a soldier. Their armour and shape is unique iirc. The others used large shields, for all I know that was a unique character with outside paramters that your just not telling me because afterall I have actually seen soldiers resist twilight myself when Zant takes hyrule.
Yeh thats nice, characters talking about powers and objects not the same as a twilight cloud, that object placed in Wolf Link is not twilight mist....its a unique object altogether.
Your taking how long time passes in gameplay for a player to move in a video as canonical time for the Twilights persistance? youve got to do better than that to prove how long it lasts, and you would be wasting yor time, the Hylden lords not going to be whistling a tune and swinging the reaver between his fingers with joy while waiting for Ganon to cast this twilight power (which is infact something Zant did, not Ganon).
Yes I have seen that video so many times, and so many times its been proven it takes a long time for twilight to do much of anything, and thats if it does anything at all as those soldiers show us. They were not harmed. It would seem only the initial blast changes soldiers in the canon, after that they can touch wisps and the full body without transformation. Considering this all took longer than what the Hylden Lord needs to destroy Ganon and we have a very useless ability.
Something else thats interesting is we dont even see Zant cast these powers, you assume that as the effect takes place Zant instantly casts it but thats ignorant because some time passes between this and the last image. Oh and Zant casts it, not Ganon....
Can you prove they do these things your claiming? control minds etc? because your just showing Darbus die and a fused shard coming from him, I dont see it affecting anyone. And Ganon shows mastery over the fused shadows, that does not mean he is immune to the powers you listed which are not even specified as part of the fused shadows. I dont recall Ganon ever holding or being pierced etc by a piece of a fused shadow.
Yes, I remember him crushing the combined shadows, it was just a helmet. So? youve yet to prove that touching the combined object does anything negative, and him destroying the mirror does not mean he is immune to possession or transformation 🙄
Reading comprehension ftw, I never said the Hylden lord could TK.
The only evidence thats useful is not useful to you, but to me and thats the one displaying soldiers immune to twilight and how damned long it takes to do anything.
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Now that I actually see the video you are talking about, what the hell are you talking about? Take a look at the difference between when the cloud is blown in, and when Hyrule becomes pulled into the Twilight Realm. One was a cloud. The other consisted of the atmosphere being rendered to a darker, yellowish shade with Twilight matter floating around. The cloud was just to summon those monsters, not pull Hyrule into the Twilight Realm. Seriously, Zant, whose power is a mere fraction of Ganondorf's, was able to pull the country of Hyrule into another dimension. Feats from the Lord to compare please?2. The **** is this? He merges the two dimensions, and it stays that way until Link, who is not affected by the Twilight Realm due to holding the Triforce of Courage, had to return the Light Spirits to power in order to separate the two realms. So yeah, it is permanent.
3. Actually it kinda does, both can teleport, so Lord's teleport does not give him the advantage you believe it does.
4. Point out the evidence they cannot do it right away. It took effect the moment Lanayru was defeated.
5. It's better TK than the Lord's (Or Kain's 🙂 ) and it shows that he could restrain him. Possess Ganondorf? Because Ganondorf has never shown to do that before, right? 😐 Not to mention Ganondorf was able to easily destroy the Fused Shadows and the Twilight Mirror, all possessing the power to possess any who come in contact with him. Ganondorf would also have the same soul protection Link does, comes with holding a piece of the Triforce.
Their still twilight based, both take a long time, are predictable (especially the first) and the first one has poor range. Their ceiling feats of affect are peasants as well, peasants who did not know what was going on. Also the twilight dimension does not exist in the matchup so how do you propose Ganon does something hes never done (Zant did it in the game) with a dimension hes never manipulated?
2. Permanent just because Link had to break the effect? thats not proof that its permanent...
3. It does because the Hylden lord has the better weapon, the Hylden lord has the reaver that will devour Ganons soul and end him permanently, you claim Ganon has twilight dust thats best feat is besting ignorant peasents after a long while or being resisted by soldiers/humans...
4. Having to defeat Zelda and her soldiers. Explain the light spirits part in this, I see no spirit in the vid of Zant beating Zelda nad her forces.
5. 😆 fully armoured soldiers>tiny imps, both the mirror and the fused shadows have yet to prove they can apprently possess or control anyone and as a branching point, the triforce has yet to show it protects the soul. I have only been shown the full fused shadows destroying things with its beam or w/e Midna fires from it to kill Zant and as for the mirror, Ive not seen much of it at all nor can it be proven Ganon touched it or was touched by a fragment.
And I lold at your idea that simply having possession makes you immune to it.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtNo I mean his armour, his overall appearance does not look like a soldier. Their armour and shape is unique iirc. The others used large shields, for all I know that was a unique character with outside paramters that your just not telling me because afterall I have actually seen soldiers resist twilight myself when Zant takes hyrule.
Uh, what? Midna specifically called him a soldier, and he's wearing armor and holding a spear. That guy is just there to teach you use your senses for the first time.
Same video, now along with 3:30, look at 5:25, 7:00, and 8:22. 8:37, too, just in case.
The soldiers did not resist twilight, they just didn't fully enter it. What resistence has the Hylden Lord shown?
Yeh thats nice, characters talking about powers and objects not the same as a twilight cloud, that object placed in Wolf Link is not twilight mist....its a unique object altogether.
Are you trying to change your point? You attempted to call me out by saying I claimed the twilight was magic when it wasn't. I simply proved via three videos that it was, in fact, magic. And were you even paying attention? Yes, the crystal is different, but the part you're supposed to see is that it is different magic. Both are reffered to as magic, but one is different, being Ganondorf's magic.
Your taking how long time passes in gameplay for a player to move in a video as canonical time for the Twilights persistance? youve got to do better than that to prove how long it lasts, and you would be wasting yor time, the Hylden lords not going to be whistling a tune and swinging the reaver between his fingers with joy while waiting for Ganon to cast this twilight power (which is infact something Zant did, not Ganon).
You missed the point there. Yeah, there's quite a bit of gameplay time, but you seem to have ignored the fact that, by the plot, the twilight stays right where it is until the Light Spirit can get rid of it.
Try this:
YouTube video
Now, I could tell you that throughout the entire conversation with Zelda they are in twilight (Zelda being protected by her Triforce peice) and that would be true. But I'd rather just direct your attention to a specific part, namely, 5:57. Emphasis mine.
"I mean, is perpetual twilight really all that bad?"
And, I would like to remind you that Zelda's story is a flashback. The twilight has been there since before the game even started. That's much more than the few seconds it would take for Ganondorf to murder the Hylden Lord.
Yes I have seen that video so many times, and so many times its been proven it takes a long time for twilight to do much of anything, and thats if it does anything at all as those soldiers show us. They were not harmed. It would seem only the initial blast changes soldiers in the canon, after that they can touch wisps and the full body without transformation. Considering this all took longer than what the Hylden Lord needs to destroy Ganon and we have a very useless ability.
I don't think we're watching the same video. Twilight takes almost no time at all to work, and again, only works if you're fully inside it. You're right in that little wisps won't work, but that's not what the Hylden Lord is facing, now is he? Hylden Lord's still too slow to much of anything before Ganondorf kills him.
Something else thats interesting is we dont even see Zant cast these powers, you assume that as the effect takes place Zant instantly casts it but thats ignorant because some time passes between this and the last image. Oh and Zant casts it, not Ganon....
You must have missed this one.
First off, see 0:38 and the instant twilight covering the Lake Hylia area. Then, I must remind you that Zant's magic comes from Ganondorf, as stated at 1:38.
Can you prove they do these things your claiming? control minds etc? because your just showing Darbus die and a fused shard coming from him, I dont see it affecting anyone. And Ganon shows mastery over the fused shadows, that does not mean he is immune to the powers you listed which are not even specified as part of the fused shadows. I dont recall Ganon ever holding or being pierced etc by a piece of a fused shadow.
Did you not see Darbus come out of the giant monster after the Fused Shadow was separated from him? He touched the Fused Shadow and turned into TWILIT IGNITER: FYRUS and changed back once Link beat him. Here:
8:00 and beyond. As you read, all it took was a touch for Darbus to transform.
7:24. Oh, he survives.
Yes, I remember him crushing the combined shadows, it was just a helmet. So? youve yet to prove that touching the combined object does anything negative, and him destroying the mirror does not mean he is immune to possession or transformation 🙄
Uh huh. Um, yeah, touching the Fused Shadows without protection is not good, as Darbus demonstrates. You've seen Ganondorf touching the Fused Shadows, yet still want to claim he has no protection? Also, don't you remember that simply looking at the Mirror of Twilight can cause possession? Ganondorf wrecked it. How do you suppose he did that without looking at it?
Reading comprehension ftw, I never said the Hylden lord could TK.
Originally posted by Burning Thought
Thats crap TK, the only one thats strong at all is when he smashes the lightspirit. And your forgetting TK again, assuming the Hylden lord cant just dematerialise and possess he kills himself just so he can possess Ganondorf. Or just teleport/slashes him.
It might not have been your intention, but you definitely said that NemeBro was forgetting the Hylden Lord's TK.
The only evidence thats useful is not useful to you, but to me and thats the one displaying soldiers immune to twilight and how damned long it takes to do anything.
lols on both counts. Proven false by video evidence.
Originally posted by Heythere,HoneyDo you possess a shred of common sense? If someone is laying on the ground and you try and pick them up as opposed to someone actively resisting you while standing up which one is harder?
So Gorons are lighter in ball form now?
Link can't toss gorons around while in wrestling matches. Think.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteWhy can't Link throw them when they aren't in ball form?
According to Quanchi. haermm
It's because they are actively resisting it as opposed to being rolling balls.
Originally posted by The ScenarioSame goes for you. Just think about this before you post and quit thinking about the weight it has do with actual resistance and the fact Link cannot do this while they are doing so and only with gear increasing his weight.
According to one theory of Quan-tum physics, yes.Credit for that joke goes to whoever made it up first, I'm sorry I don't remember who.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you possess a shred of common sense? If someone is laying on the ground and you try and pick them up as opposed to someone actively resisting you while standing up which one is harder?Link can't toss gorons around while in wrestling matches. Think.
That really wasn't the question he was asking. He asked if they were lighter. They would not be. Now harder to pick up because they are resisting it is the point you're making. Which is debatable because I'd think they'd have more momentum while rolling and thus harder to stop and then pick up and toss. But I'm not a Zelda fan and know far less about Gorons than most here and I only stopped by for teh lulz.
Originally posted by The ScenarioHe increased his own weight and this made the feat possible. Strength has to do with weight itself in reality. If I weigh five punds I am not stopping something that weighs 115 pounds. Link needed his weight altered meaning on his own he cannot even dream of contending with gorons without the boots just like bo said. The game backs me up like always.
Until you learn physics you are just going to keep embarassing yourself here. Please, for your own sake at least. It doesn't matter whether he had the boots or not, he still stopped a larger body in motion using his arms as well. The boots just keep him from moving; his leg strength keeps him from falling and his arm strength absorbs the force.You're saying Ganondorf can reform his body after it has been destroyed (and body destruction is not fatal) without the Triforce of Power? You know, the source of his power? Look, when you're arguing that someone that has their body disintegrated isn't in danger, you're looking pretty darn biased.
And then, you're still misunderstanding the scene with the Sages even after all this time. Are you aware that Ganondorf did not have the Triorce of Power at that moment? Did you know that he did not have it until after the stabbing happened?
At least try to understand the scene or what you're talking about.
In a forum fight, Ganondorf would not be chained to a giant stone block.
In a forum fight, Ganondorf would have the Triforce of Power at the start, instead of gaining it during the fight.
In a forum fight, the Sages wouldn't have access to the Mirror of Twilight unless the Arbiter's Grounds were specified.
In a forum fight, Ganondorf would be trying to kill them.Despite having his body disintegrate? Body disintegration is now non-lethal to you? Where do you come up with this stuff?
No. Jeez, I can't believe you don't get this. Beast Ganon gets hit with the Master Sword (in physical form) and starts disintegrating. He survives this. Ganondorf gets impaled by the Master Sword and gets power drained. The difference being that the sword continued touching him during the impaling. No other sword could hace done that. No, not the Sages sword, did you not see him laugh as he pulled it out?
That's because you don't like to accept feats that don't fit in your reality. Link was trained by the Hero's Shade, in case you forgot, which is not lackluster in the sightest. I don't care whether or not you consider him a child. Technically, being 17, he is one, but he still beats Ganondorf, who could defeat the characters you named.
This is irrelevant anyway.
No, Ganondorf has too much staying power for that. Or he could Twilight Mist himself, or cover the arena in twilight to render the Hylden Lord helpless.
Nope. It's still you're problem. Until you post the link I asked for, anything you say is invalid.
This is irrelevant. I refuse to argue pointless drivel that distracts from the current match. Besides, you still haven't posted that link. I'm not conceding on this, by the way, so don't even try.
Glad that's cleared up, then. At what point in Twilight Princess that isn't backstory does the Triforce of Power enhance the plot? By the way, under a definition that loose anything ever could still be called a plot device.
This fits the Triforce of Power how? Link isn't looking for it or trying to destroy it.
The word "Triforce" does not appear at any point in Twilight Princess. Fact.
"Stronger than a human" is absolutely worthless by itself. "Extremely strong" is similar. I've been told that I'm extremely strong before, does that mean I'm as strong as a vampire? What you're doing is trying to argue a vague statement. The purpose of feats is not show that someone is strong. The purpose of a feat is to show how strong someone is. Give me specifics. How much stronger is a vampire than a human? What can the average non-special vampire lift? How much stronger is Janos than a normal vampire? What can he lift? Give me a number or a feat.
What you're ignoring is that the average Goron does have feats like that, and special Gorons are better. The average Goron withstands magma and getting launched from a volcano, and can toss unweighted Link around or throw him into the sky. Gorons like Darbus can shatter rock walls with a punch. What do the vampires have that can compare to that? A statement that a vampire is stronger than a human does not tell us how much stronger, and does not prove that they're stronger than Link or Ganondorf.
And you still haven't proved that the Hylden lord is durable or has any staying power.
Then link me to the website. It's easy, just copy/paste the url and put the appropriate tags around it.
Where did I take something ut of context? Quote it for me.
As above, I can prove a random Goron is strong, and give a minimum estimate on their strength. You can't seem to prove that a random vampire is strong, nor can you give any estimate. All you're doing is saying "strong" and expecting it to be enough. Let's say 2 guys are both strong. One lifts a large rock, but the other just keeps saying he's strong and doesn't lift anything. Which would you think is stronger?
And the Hylden Lord has been impaled how many times? That's right, just once, and he died instantly. Therefore Ganondorf can take one more hit than the Hylden Lord can. That is, of course, the simple version. In reality, Ganondorf has taken much more than the Hylen Lord has (electrocution, exorcism via crushing, disintegration, and impalement) and keeps going. If you remember, the hylden Lord died instantly, while Ganondorf got back up and continued to talk.
They heal him just the same.
Denial of what, pray tell? I simply don't stand for your malicious bashing.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogance
You are underestimating Link, the Master Sword, and the Triforce of Courage.
Ganondorf resists electrocution, exorcism via crushing, disintegration, and impalement. The Hylden Lord has nothing on that.
He reformed and was never ever shown to be destroyed or fatally wounded he simply changed forms. When his physical body was shown to be impaled he barely survived it once and the second time just died. The game backs me up unlike your biased claims.
The triforce favored him then and was used again or activated after Link stabbed him but failed. So in both instances it triggered once it needed to and failed 1 time.
Yes, he does have the triforce of power just like he did here. It was only used to save his life after it was threatened and guess what did the same exact thing against Link. Nothing changed it activated when his life was in danger and clearly did not change at all against Link. In a forum fight the Hylden Lord overpowers him and kills him with the soulreaver. I mean the Mages would have killed him had not the triforce favored him and shows ho whe is anything but durable.
His body wasn't disintegrated he changed his form just like when he possessed Zelda but I guess that was lethal to Ganondorf as well, right?
Yes, he laughed as they gave him time and he survived this. The point is in a forum matchup the master sword isn't required just like the soulreaver wielder isn't unbeatable. When he gets stabbed he dies.
Yes, he was trained 7 sessions where he only needs to perform the move once successfully against the shade making it hardly any training yet it's enough. In other games years are required to hone skills and abilities but in this game a few short weeks were all that were needed. That about sums it up.
No, he can't and did not do so against the mages or against Link. Quit just making things up to try and give him the victory over a character you are unfamiliar with. The soulreaver tears into him like butter since every sword that has attacked him goes through him like butter. Hylden Lord wins as he is stronger, more knowledgable, and more powerful.
I don't care if you believe me or not tbh. I posted her exact words.
I don't have to post it.
The triforce of power makes it possible for Dorf to survive the impalement aka plot device. I mean you not being able to understand this very simple definition shows to me why you have such a struggle grasping these games.
This is just an example the triforce of power is the object of great power for the baddie that opposes the hero which can do whatever the story needs it to from game to game to advance the plot. I mean come on I don't have time to continue to state the obvious.
The word doesn't need to be used the triforce of power is what backed up and you even acknowledge it so please quit backtracking.
Kain at his weakest can punch through armor and rip out hearts whereas Raziel can rip out Kain's heart while weakened according to you yet Janos's body can take him on implying strength by comparison. The Hylden Lord tossed him around like nothing unlike Raziel who has already proven himself and you even say while weakened can rip out hearts of vampires. You are arguing for me on this point.
They are stronger than Link and Dorf who don't have any real strength feats at all to their names. Link has gear related feats while Dorf has power feats not any strength feats outside breaking out of chains.
I know how to do so but since you call yourself an expert on the matter I refuse to do so.
You do it all the time and the link strength feats are a perfect example of taking a feat out of context.
All vampires we have seen are strong and the basic point of blood omen 2 is to denote the kind of strength Kain possesses while extremely weak. You haven't played the game so of course you don't know how it is portrayed.
Kain impaled him after he beat him in battle whereas Dorf was impaled by everyone who faced off against him without any strength at all. he is easier to beat and actually only beat Midna.
So what they aren't the actual heart they are like energy or fairies in zelda. Big difference.
It's called confidence not arrogance.
I played through the whole game and no I am not underestimating Link at all. He was a weak hero in terms of heros from games I have played.
He reforms and changes his form but can be impaled by anyone it seems.
I am not bashing anyone.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelMy point still stands and is correct as always. Link needs the boots to stop the balls and actually throw them and isn't capable of doing so without them making it a strength feat with his gear and something he isn't capable of on his own.
That really wasn't the question he was asking. He asked if they were lighter. They would not be. Now harder to pick up because they are resisting it is the point you're making. Which is debatable because I'd think they'd have more momentum while rolling and thus harder to stop and then pick up and toss. But I'm not a Zelda fan and know far less about Gorons than most here and I only stopped by for teh lulz.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeThe game makes it clear without the boots he can't contend with Gorons so you are just mocking the zelda games not me.
The Quan-tum joke was General Kaliero's creation, just so everybody knows.And yes, according to Quan-tum physics the heavier the shoes you wear the stronger you are. How the mob ever killed anybody with those cement shoes is beyond me though.
Originally posted by NemeBroPut up whatever you want it won't change the fact Link can't throw gorons without the boots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia
Originally posted by quanchi112
My point still stands and is correct as always. Link needs the boots to stop the balls and actually throw them and isn't capable of doing so without them making it a strength feat with his gear and something he isn't capable of on his own.
I don't see how a pair of boots somehow give you the ability to lift something.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelIn the game you are only able to do so with the boots. You do realize games can do whatever they want in a fictional universe, right?
Use-Increase WeightI don't see how a pair of boots somehow give you the ability to lift something.
Originally posted by quanchi112http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia
In the game you are only able to do so with the boots. You do realize games can do whatever they want in a fictional universe, right?
Originally posted by NemeBroSo you concede the feats are ONLY possible with the boots, right ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia
Originally posted by quanchi112
In the game you are only able to do so with the boots. You do realize games can do whatever they want in a fictional universe, right?
You'd have a point if you were talking about something like the golden gauntlets, which are stated to give Link super lifting ability. But you're talking about a pair of boots, which from what my own common sense says, are they so you can stop the rolling Gorons and then throw them. But hey, what do I know? Maybe you'd care to explain why Link can't throw them without the boots. Key word being throw, not stop.
Originally posted by quanchi112My God, you're a hopeless individual. My brain hurts from trying to find a way to dumb it down enough for you.
So you concede the feats are ONLY possible with the boots, right ?
Link is super strong, because he displays it. Needing boots due to the laws of physics does not negate this, GTFO. 😐
Originally posted by quanchi112http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia
So you concede the feats are ONLY possible with the boots, right ?
Seriously. Read this.