didnt want to get into one of these wall of text battles *sigh* but, here we go.....
Originally posted by Desaad
Yes, I was backing up one part of your claim while clarifying the nature of the Boom Tube and the way it's evolved over the years.
k.
And I'm sure you'd bring in plenty of examples that you'd argue as Super Speed perceptions, and I'd argue that only 2 or 3 of those were actually legitimate, and I'd bring in evidence of Green Lanterns explicitly using human perceptions to perform similar feats, and you'd counter by claiming that small differences make all the difference, etc. I've been down this road many times before, and I'm not too terribly keen on going down it again. Suffice it to say, my definition of 'super speed perceptions' is probably a great deal more particular than yours, and there aren't so many characters I view as actually having them. And yes, I'm sure you'd have more examples of Surfer using true super speed perceptions than would I for Orion, but would they be a greater percentage of his appearances? Given that he's got hundreds more, I mean to say.
Actually if you brought your green lantern examples i would counter by showing the clear differences between they and the surfer example and show why they are not at all analalgous to the surfer ones. My definition of superspeed perception and criteria used is likely just as "particular" as yours with the only difference being my observation of the fulfillment of these criteria within the surfer feats as opposed to you. Also please reread, my statements as i focused on impressiveness and NOT number or percentage of times used. This is because as long as he has demonstrated the ability enough times for it to be considered a part of his powerset (which he has) then the amount of times he has used it is of little relevance given the existence of the NO PIS and full capacity rules which indicate that a character will fight to the best of his abilities as shown on panel. Percentages are therefore irrelevant here.
Yeah, I know why you did it. You were searching for a way to cast doubt on the feat, and being careful not to make any outright assertions in case someone called you on it. There is no way that BFR would have been a possibility, when everything else indicates that it's the nature and power of the Astro Force - a primarily destructive energy - that allowed the feat to be accomplished. Just because it happened off panel doesn't mean that I can claim that, for instance, he actually contained the energies in the palm of his hand while simultaneously trapping Mageddon at the edge of space time and warding off Imperiex.
I was under the assumption that teleportation/BFR was one of the abilities afforded Orion by the astroforce as well as energy manipulation. Perhaps i was wrong on that acount. If not then BFR cannot be abruptly ruled out as a possibility. Ur examples are nothing short of comical and totally unrelated to this scenario however. In suggesting BFR, i was bringing forth a possibility of Orion performing a feat using a power afforded to him by the astroforce (if its not as i said before i am open to correction here) since we dont actually see how he used the astro force to accomplish it. This is in no way a parrallel to ur ludicrous analogies which involved bringing in external characters never shown to be present in the situation at all.lulz, what is more unfortunate, is ur attempt to advance ur argument by continuing to harp on a point i had already dropped before u even entered into the discussion in the first place.
No, your attempt at casting doubt on the feat by making bizarre - and ultimately nonsensical - distinctions as to the method of the destruction of the fabric of reality is without merit, so far as I can tell.
😂 u really need to reread the discussion. The distinction i made in regards to the method of destruction, was so as to clarify that the energy was not universal in scale but rather in scope. Hence it had specific properties which would cause the universe to collapse on itself and not by sheer destructive force. What i was therefore clarifying was that Orion didnt contain an amount of energy that filled/permeated the universe which if he did i would consider more impressive than surfers crunch feat but rather was able to contain and nullify energies with uniquely destructive properties (properties destructive enough to cause the collapse of the universe). i still went on to acknowledge its extreme level of impressiveness regardless of that fact.
You opened up the topic by arguing that the method by which the universe was destroyed was somehow less valid than other methods by which the universe might be destroyed. I have no interest in dissecting the physics of universal destruction. I'm content to take it as it was presented -- a bomb that was set to destroy the universe could only be contained by the energies of the Astro Force.
Sigh. False, i did not argue that the method by which the universe was destroyed was less valid but rather clarified the method by which it was destroyed so that we would be able to better appraise the feat.
What u attempted to do rather was to impose nonsensical limitations on a fictional universe, limitations which have been shown time and time again to be invalid in similar situations.
Wow, what happened to it being off panel? What happened to it being impossible to reason out the method, nature, and mechanism of the bomb and the bomb's energies? For what it's worth, the bomb had apparently released enough where every being across the universe was feeling the effects of it.
LMAO, these inane ramblings and this state of confusion you are in could have easily been avoided by properly reading the posts. I mentioned that he counteracted the bomb off panel,which is true. I also mentioned in the post u replied what was plainly shown and mentioned on panel, which was that the bomb had just begun radiating its energy. Once again that is undoubtedly true No how in gods name does that relate to ur completely
faulty rationalization about the bomb. My mentioning of actual on panel occurences and descriptions is in no way similar to ur attempt to apply particular real life limitations to a fictional medium in which those real life limitations have been shown NOT to apply...
How long is 'not long' to a being like Galactus, who has existed longer than the universe has existed? It's comics, after all -- any attempt to understand such beings is ultimately a fruitless endeavor, because it's not the real world. Right?
heh, more ludicrous ramblings topped off with laughable strawman argumentation. Ur attempt to make it seem that i said no real world terms can be applied to comics is downright pitiful. I faulted you on attempting to scientifically explain the internal workings of a bomb using limitations that have been shown to not apply within the comic universe in that particular context. Hence this in no way means that no concepts within the real world are applicable within the comics universe just that in this given context ur logic which was gleaned from real life technological limitations was innapplicable. facepalm i beg of u to stop with the fallacious reasoning. it only serves to diminish the value of the discussion.
Why are they are comparable levels? How does the fact that they differ somehow equalize them? That's insanely wrong headed. One of them is a feat of energy absorption, the other is a feat of energy generation. One of them is a feat of universal scale, the other is unquantifiable (yes, unquantifiable, given the number of things that have been known to hurt, weaken, or nearly kill Galactus).
In the post u quoted, i was not claiming that the fact they differed equalized them but rather that the feats differed in nature and with surfer actually wielding the energies of the crunch (in addittion to the other circumstances such as him being nearly dead prior to performing the feat) that him nearly dying after the feat does not diminish it. What equalizes them, is the fact that surfer channelled and wielded universal level energy which a near abstract being like galactus mentioned even he could not withstand for long. The situations u are referring to in which galactus is hurt or weakened are almost always a result of him being extremely hungry. His overall powerlevel however is certainly within the upper echelon of marvels hierarchy and this is not in doubt.
on a sidenote, describing the orion feat as one of energy absorption is really just speculation since we dont see what happened. we know he manipulated the energy in someway which is enough to warrant its impressiveness but that actual description (absorption) is certainly not a concrete one.
