Originally posted by GideonOk, so you don't think the scene in the script where Yoda disarms Palpatine and reflects his lightning back at him (possibly with his saber) is canon?
It's one scene. The disarmament, the repulsion of the lightning, even the ending itself. One scene. Non-canon.
If so, I agree. I thought you were arguing for that scene.
Originally posted by Gideon
YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.^ That's the segment of the script, verbatim. I don't think that Yoda would have had time to put his lightsaber away and then raise his hands to deflect it, do you?
I think you're assuming that Yoda's 'ferocious assault' is lightsaber related. It didn't have to be.
Gideon, I think you are simply trying to prove the "Yoda jumps to a lower pod" line non-canon.
Anything else you are trying to prove non-canon goes from semi-reaching to pure speculation.
Even then, simply because we don't have Yoda's reason for leaping to another pod, DOESN'T mean he didn't do it. You are trying to use opinion to dictate canon, and THAT'S incorrect.
Double post to summarize:
Your argument hinges on the fact that Yoda wouldn't be foolish enough to allow Sidious to recover from a position of "seems doomed"
Your claim?: Since Yoda had made up his mind to "destroy the Sith", he wouldn't hesitate in the slightest when an opportunity arose to do just that.
Your secondary claim?: That there was no other possible reason for Yoda to leap to a different pod at that moment except to let Sidious recover, or to run away?
Your conclusion? Since Yoda acted in a way that contradicts his stated intentions from his conversation with Kenobi, Yoda's actions violate canon, and are therefore non-canon?
Do I have this correct?
N
I think you're assuming that Yoda's 'ferocious assault' is lightsaber related. It didn't have to be.
😐
What sort of ferocious assault would it be, then? According to the script, the last time we saw Yoda and Palpatine fighting, they were doing so with lightsabers. Not to mention there'd be no other reason for Yoda or Palpatine to keep their lightsabers ignited and at the ready if it was strictly a Force duel at that point. Likewise, if it were telekinesis, and both combatants were confined to the limited proximity of the Chancellor's podium, wouldn't a 'ferocious [telekinetic] assault' have thrown Palpatine off the side instead of nudge him a fraction?
Spoiler:
I'm going to crush you, N, should you keep going down this path. Defeat is inevitable for you. So you might as well adjust your own tactics....
TJ
Gideon, I think you are simply trying to prove the "Yoda jumps to a lower pod" line non-canon.
We've already established that what you think is immaterial; do please keep up, TJ.
Spoiler:
I'm teasing you, so please don't cry.
TJ
Anything else you are trying to prove non-canon goes from semi-reaching to pure speculation.Even then, simply because we don't have Yoda's reason for leaping to another pod, DOESN'T mean he didn't do it. You are trying to use opinion to dictate canon, and THAT'S incorrect.
My opinion is, unfortunately for you, the correct one. Yoda's stated intentions in the film, novelization, and the rest of the screenplay is simply to destroy Palpatine. Given Yoda's centuries of combat experience and noted tactical acumen, opting to spare an incredibly dangerous adversary that you've vowed to destroy (and indeed, needs to be destroyed if the galaxy is to be spared) is a sign of absolute and utter retardation and mental deficits.
Or, in this case, a non-canon action in a non-canon scene.
203 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE CHAMRER-MAIN ARENA-NIGHT
YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.
The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.
YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.
YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.
YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.
YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.
^ This, sir, is non-canon. It deviates from the film at various points and is, thus, non-canon.
Originally posted by Gideon
😐What sort of ferocious assault would it be, then? According to the script, the last time we saw Yoda and Palpatine fighting, they were doing so with lightsabers. Not to mention there'd be no other reason for Yoda or Palpatine to keep their lightsabers ignited and at the ready if it was strictly a Force duel at that point. Likewise, if it were telekinesis, and both combatants were confined to the limited proximity of the Chancellor's podium, wouldn't a 'ferocious [telekinetic] assault' have thrown Palpatine off the side instead of nudge him a fraction?
^ This looks like an opinion.
Vorpal Ruin
^ This looks like an opinion.
Not really, it's more along the lines of a fact.
There's nothing to suggest that the 'ferocious assault' was done through the Force, since Palpatine wouldn't have dropped his lightsaber had it not been in his hands, which indicates that it was a lightsaber duel in which Yoda's 'ferocious assault' was dealt.
Not to mention that when Yoda strikes Palpatine telekinetically before the duel, it hurls Palpatine across the room. They're dueling on the Chancellor's podium, so if the assault had been made without a lightsaber, then Palpatine wouldn't have nearly fallen, he would have just fallen.
Vorpal Ruin
Your opinion being the correct one.
Then by all means, show me the error of my ways. If you're man enough.
Vorpal Ruin
Matter of fact I think that you defeated yourself on the point that what you were argueing about a fact, and I said it wasn't a fact, just your opinion.
No, it's a fact that the scene is non-canon (the entire excerpt I posted, from the disarmament to Yoda's tumble to the bottom of the Rotunda contradicts the movie in many ways).
Now, it's all well and good to point fingers and say UR WRONG BAHAHAHAAHA!!1! (as you've done). Now grow a pair and back 'em up, please. 🙂
Originally posted by Gideon
No, it's a fact that the scene is non-canon (the entire excerpt I posted, from the disarmament to Yoda's tumble to the bottom of the Rotunda contradicts the movie in many ways).Now, it's all well and good to point fingers and say UR WRONG BAHAHAHAAHA!!1! (as you've done). Now grow a pair and back 'em up, please. 🙂
Originally posted by Gideon
😐What sort of ferocious assault would it be, then? According to the script, the last time we saw Yoda and Palpatine fighting, they were doing so with lightsabers. Not to mention there'd be no other reason for Yoda or Palpatine to keep their lightsabers ignited and at the ready if it was strictly a Force duel at that point. Likewise, if it were telekinesis, and both combatants were confined to the limited proximity of the Chancellor's podium, wouldn't a 'ferocious [telekinetic] assault' have thrown Palpatine off the side instead of nudge him a fraction?
So you can provide a source for what you are talking about right here to prove it?
PALPATINE seeks refuge in the vast Senate Chamber. He gets into the Chancellor's Podium and it starts to rise up into the Arena. YODA makes a giant leap into the control pod. The sword fighting is intense in the confined space.
^ Emphasis mine. This confirms that a.) they are fighting with lightsabers and b.) they are dueling on the Chancellor's podium, which is a "confined space."
YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber
^ They are continuing the lightsaber fight, obviously, so there's no indication that it was a Force-based 'ferocious assault'.
but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.
The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.
YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.
YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod.
^ This is not depicted in the movie. Beside that obvious fact, as argued repeatedly in this thread, Yoda's move contradicts his stated intention in the movie (which is the higher canonical source). His stated intention was to destroy Palpatine, not defeat/arrest/toy with/spar with him, but to end his life. Given Yoda's noted tactical acumen (the New Essential Chronology) and his centuries of dueling and combat experience, it makes absolutely no sense for Yoda to relent from his position of superiority. It's not simply a mistake, but a move indicative of overwhelming carelessness and, quite frankly, mental retardation. This contradicts the movie in two ways: the way Yoda is depicted and his own stated goals. It is, therefore, non-canon.
But wait, there's moar!
PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.
YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.
^ This, too, is non-canon. Because according to the script, Palpatine is still on the Chancellor's podium. This is false,
YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.
^ And, finally, this is also non-canon. In reality, Yoda lands on the pod with Palpatine and is disarmed by Force lightning, but is not hurled off the pod until he deflects the lightning and the concentrated coil of energy bursts, hurling both of them off the pod.
In conclusion, the script's account of the fight is non-canon and
Spoiler:
I win.
Thanks for playing! 🙂