Originally posted by ImpedimentNo, it doesn't. I already posted hard core evidence why it doesn't. I can't yepeat my argument, you already warned me about that, so I am forced to pull a DDM and tell you to read back, page after page.
Deny it all you want, RJ, gun kata seals a win here. You've done nothing but spew opinion, not fact.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, Bruce. Read the thread. Feel the force. Prestons gun kata go bye bye with HG. HG go dodgey dodgey, shooty back, Preston get ouchie fall down go boom.Seriously, read the thread, HG wins. It's not an opinion, it's fact.
RJ, I have read the entire thread and have watched both Kick-Ass and Equilibrium at the same time using the PIP function on my TV, still I am of the opinion that Preston will win
Originally posted by Impediment
a.k.a.Speculation<<<<Fact.
OK Mattie, you forced my hand. Here we go, again.....
Prestons high end feat for Gun Kata is against idiots who stand still, or who MAYBE move a foot or two this way or that. THAT is the high end feat. Hit Girl does not stand still, she is all over the place, dodging bullets, and has aim that is every bit as good as Preston.
Gun Kata is designed to take on several opponents at once, opponents who remain in the same general area as they shoot, not fast movers like Hit Girl. The one time a guy decided to run and shoot at the same time, Preston missed. The factor of cross fire (one on the Gun Kata's staples) simply isn't there. Which throws a wrench into the works for Preston. He doesn't have a means of making HG hesitate, he has to predict her firing pattern from the get go and avoid everything while firing back.
Hit Girl: Smaller (much less of a target), faster (harder to hit), more agile (again, harder to hit), than anyone Preston faced.
To say "Gun Kata seals the win here" is like saying "Luke blew up one Death Star, hey, he can blow up twenty in a row."
THAT'S speculation.
Originally posted by Robtard^
And you're completely wrong. The guys in the hallway were moving, you see some of them moving forward to shoot, some move right, some move left, some move behind pillars to shoot etc.
Gunkata does not state that the opponent(s) need to stay perfectly still in order for it to be effective. Considering Preston does shoot and kill moving targets, your angle to weasel a win here is proved faulty.
He constantly adjust his positon to his opponent(s), while simultaneously returning firing and killing. This is how gunkata works, as we see.
In the end, anything Hit-Girl can do, Preston has surpassed with his feats.
Crap, well, I missed that. I haven't seen that movie for about 2 years.
It's my fault for putting that into RJ's head: we debated this pretty thoroughly before this thread started getting epically long like this. So, part of the problem is my fault because RJ bounced ideas off of my "known Preston Fan Boy" brain.
And, I've read the arguments in this thread.
Preston is a bullet dogdger but the commonly accepted use of this. He dodges bullets AFTER they are fired. He moves AFTER the guns are fired.
I did not think this until I watched the hallway shoot out scene, again. Not only does John dodge bullets, he dodges two guys firing fully-automatic assault rifles AFTER they opened fire.
It's the same scenario as HG: she dodges two hand gun shots, AFTER they were fired.
So what do we have here: John dodges a hallway full of moving targets who are the most highly trained police force, in the world. He dodges AND evades all 20+ mens' auto-matic gunfire AND kills them all, without a scratch on him.
Hit Girl dodged 2 bullets against mafia thugs (not even hitmen). They were sh*tting themselves, scared half to death, because of her. Those guys barely qualify as hardened criminals. Buncha white collar body guards is what they are.
Preston isn't even looking where he's firing, most of the time, and he still hits his targets.
Not only that, he calculated, down to the exact spot, where he'd have to be when he ran out of bullets and needed to reload.
As for the fallicious idea that HG is bouncing around all over the place and it makes Gun Kata completely useless. PFFFFFFFFFFFFT! Preston is a bullet dodger of automatic gunfire. That puts him above Veidt and HG, by far. Also, he shot plenty of moving targets.
Put Preston in the same exact scenario as HG and he clears the room in less than 5 seconds. Dead serious. That's going by screen feats. 😬
As for the fallicious idea that HG is more agile than Preston. Nah. Not even close. Preston was jumping to almost superhuman heights, in his movie. HG doesn't even come close. Until she flips upside down, shooting people, backwards, and then reloads her gun, all in one movement, she doesn't even come close to being as agile as Preston.
This thread is a stomp in favor of Preston.
Originally posted by PlacidityGiven such mutations can occur, Spider-man could exist no problem.
No they don't. Not even close.
Originally posted by PlacidityUm, did you not read what I said, or are you just ignoring it?
I said, GIVEN SUCH MUTATIONS CAN OCCUR, Spider-man could exist.
GIVEN PEOPLE CAN DEVELOP SUCH REFLEXES AND PREDICTIVE ABILITY, Preston would still get shot if he pulled that crap in real life.
Seems pretty clear I'm not using the "plausibility argument".
Your all caps statements are both incorrect, by far.
They have to be correct in order for the logic to also be correct.
Originally posted by PlacidityHis abilities relies on PIS and other people having little to no aim at all. What you are saying is because its Preston, anyone he is facing has to have bad aim too. Sounds fair?
Oh reall?
Is that why the wall, right be hind Preston, was full of bullet holes cause they all missed?
Watch the scene again of Preston's shootout in the hall. He not only dodges bullets (in the most classical sense: he dodges gunfire after the guns are fired: bullet dodging), but when he lands, the wall is full of holes from bullets that he dodged.
That's not bad aim, at all. That's him dodging bullets that were aimed at his entire body. They not only did NOT shoot him, the bullets were right where he was...he's just too fast and agile.
So, we have some really good shots, hitting nothing but air...which is much different from the gimp-fest you made it out to be.
Originally posted by Rogue JediBut, as Six said, he has only semi auto. HIS decision.
Weren't you the one that got up in arms about someone changing a thread just 6 posts in, saying it was beyond "the first few posts"?
Originally posted by Rogue JediMy favorite? haermm PRESTON is my favorite, you twit. Just like McClane is my favorite over Riggs, and you pulled the same shit there, "Riggs is your fave, you want Riggs to win!!!!"
I can vouch for this fact. John was going on, yesterday, about how awesome Preston is as a character (as was I).
Originally posted by PlacidityBtw, if you watch the final hallway firefight scene, none of the guards are actually shown shooting AT him (because they CAN'T show it), except for one or two and Preston does some flips to avoid them.
While this doesn’t happen very often, you're definitely wrong this time. See my previous point about that.
Originally posted by PlacidityNo, the ones you listed do not fall under all three categories, in fact they don't fall into any.
- Super Duper Strength: Theres nothing illogical about this. Also, impossible as in logically impossible, which this isn't.
- The Force: Again, not illogical, its a concept I can grasp.
- Tanking a nuke: A character with high durability surviving one, what doesn't make sense here?
You listed powers, I'm not doubting Preston's abilities to predict trajectories, I'm making claims against the FEATS.
Easy to counter all of those:
It is a concept you can grasp, sure, but it is definitely unscientific.
An invisible force that exerts a "physical effect" on objects around the area...but for some reason, this "force" also has a almost "metaphysical" affect on the brain: being able to read memories and current(no pun intended) synapses. Those two natures are very contradictory and very illogical for a "force." It's just magical as modern science cannot create a living energy capable kinetic AND electrochemcial influences. Illogical, unscientific, but it happens.
Whereas a person dodging bullets based on math that was computed by a future computers in a semi-distant future, with "nootropics" and "depressants" that completely change a personality...nah, that's not very illogical, at all. In fact, it's well in line with current predictions about our futures. In fact, the only problem with it is the speed at which Preston avoided bullet trajectories. It should have been closer to what we saw on the Sci-Fi mini-series (plurel series) for the 'weirding ways' when they moved, seemingly, fast.
That's a "budget" and physics issue, not a logic issue.
I'll post more, later, as I read the last 4 page of the thread.
Originally posted by dadudemonYeah, um......Preston is not a bullet dodger. The very definition of Gun Kata denies this.Preston is a bullet dogdger but the commonly accepted use of this. He dodges bullets AFTER they are fired. He moves AFTER the guns are fired.
I did not think this until I watched the hallway shoot out scene, again. Not only does John dodge bullets, he dodges two guys firing fully-automatic assault rifles AFTER they opened fire.No. He used Gun Kata. Gun Kata is based on predictability, on Preston knowing where the bullets will be coming from. Preston knows the police training, he knew how and when they would shoot, he knew their tendencies in combat. That helped him more than you can possibly know.
NOT bullet dodging.
The police in Prestons hallway were mindless drones. They were trained to react a certain way, to think and act a certain way in combat, and Preston knew this, used it against them. If those cops were regular guys, each with a mind if his own, and were free to feel, they would be individuals. Give them the same training and the freedom to feel, to think and act independently, and Preston would have been dead in seconds.
It's the same scenario as HG: she dodges two hand gun shots, AFTER they were fired.HG dodged bullets while running at the shooter, that makes it even more impressive, all three times.
So what do we have here: John dodges a hallway full of moving targets who are the most highly trained police force, in the world. He dodges AND evades all 20+ mens' auto-matic gunfire AND kills them all, without a scratch on him.HG's hallway was about ten feet, Prestons was about 35-40 feet. HG had far less room to move around, therefore her hallway feat is more impressive.
Hit Girl dodged 2 bullets against mafia thugs (not even hitmen). They were sh*tting themselves, scared half to death, because of her. Those guys barely qualify as hardened criminals. Buncha white collar body guards is what they are.HG's hallway was about ten feet, Prestons was about 35-40 feet. HG had far less room to move around, therefore her hallway feat is more impressive. More narrow hallway=Faster reaction time.
Preston isn't even looking where he's firing, most of the time, and he still hits his targets.Mhm, stationary idiots. NOT fast movers like HG.
Once again, Prestons high end Gun Kata featsare: Against stationary shooters, and against guys who maybe move a foot or so, this way or that.
Not only that, he calculated, down to the exact spot, where he'd have to be when he ran out of bullets and needed to reload.Again, Preston worked with these men, went through their training, knew what it would take to kill them, is it so hard to imagine him knowing when he would need to reload? Again, knowledge of ones opponent......you know the rest.
As for the fallicious idea that HG is bouncing around all over the place and it makes Gun Kata completely useless. PFFFFFFFFFFFFT! Preston is a bullet dodger of automatic gunfire. That puts him above Veidt and HG, by far. Also, he shot plenty of moving targets.No, he's not a bullet dodger. Look up the definition of gun kata.
No, he didn't.
Put Preston in the same exact scenario as HG and he clears the room in less than 5 seconds. Dead serious. That's going by screen feats. 😬Doubtful. I already covered why Preston looked so impressive in his hallway shootout. Knowledge of ones opponent is more valuable than you know.
As for the fallicious idea that HG is more agile than Preston. Nah. Not even close. Preston was jumping to almost superhuman heights, in his movie. HG doesn't even come close. Until she flips upside down, shooting people, backwards, and then reloads her gun, all in one movement, she doesn't even come close to being as agile as Preston.Uh......
Preston did NOT jump to "superhuman" heights, stop it. He jumped off two motorcycles, it LOOKED like he jumped than much higher.
Observe:
If you are telling me now, after I posted that vid, that Preston is more agile than HG, you are truly deluded.
This thread is a stomp in favor of Preston.No, it isn't.
BYW, Placidity is correct with his statements.
Originally posted by The NuulBetter training, yes. Older, yes. Stronger, no doubt.
Preston wins, better training, older, stronger and just over all better.
Overall better? No. Prestons high end feat for Gun Kata is against idiots who stand still, or who MAYBE move a foot or two this way or that. THAT is the high end feat. Hit Girl does not stand still, she is all over the place, dodging bullets, and has aim that is every bit as good as Preston.
Gun Kata is designed to take on several opponents at once, opponents who remain in the same general area as they shoot, not fast movers like Hit Girl. The one time a guy decided to run and shoot at the same time, Preston missed. The factor of cross fire (one on the Gun Kata's staples) simply isn't there. Which throws a wrench into the works for Preston. He doesn't have a means of making HG hesitate, he has to predict her firing pattern from the get go and avoid everything while firing back.
Hit Girl: Smaller (much less of a target), faster (harder to hit), more agile (again, harder to hit), than anyone Preston faced.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, um......Preston is not a bullet dodger. The very definition of Gun Kata denies this.
Nope, he is. You're completely missing it.
The thread is really done, now. Pwned. Destroyed. I am dead serious. Preston dodged AFTER fully automatics were fired at him. That's bullet dodging, not Gun Kata.
Gun Kata is moving into spaces that have the lowest probability of a bullet trajectory crossing over your person. Dodging bullets would be moving out of the way AFTER the bullet is fired.
Preston did that in the hallway scene against two fully automatic assault rifles.
HG did it to two bullets fired by useless and scared sh*tless, white collar, thugs.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. He used Gun Kata. Gun Kata is based on predictability, on Preston knowing where the bullets will be coming from. Preston knows the police training, he knew how and when they would shoot, he knew their tendencies in combat. That helped him more than you can possibly know.NOT bullet dodging.
No, I'm right. You're just ignoring this "new" information that I brought to the thread that completely voids any an all arguments you had built up.
And, yes, this is a completely new point that no one has brought up about Preston's abilities. I am not referring to anything discussed about Gun Kata and bullet dodging. This is a completely new point. Watch the hallway scene, again. When you've seen the Preston dodges after two military officers open fire. After. That's bullet dodging. Sorry, but this thread really is over and done with. This new information is such severe pwnage to anything else you could bring up that the thread is null.
But, to actually directly counter you above point:
HG was trained, for years, to specifically bring down that organization. Big Daddy was a former cop (one of the best, apparantly) and was training HG, specifically, to take down those thugs. He knew their tendencies in combat even more than they did. That helped HG exactly as much as we know.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The police in Prestons hallway were mindless drones. They were trained to react a certain way, to think and act a certain way in combat, and Preston knew this, used it against them. If those cops were regular guys, each with a mind if his own, and were free to feel, they would be individuals. Give them the same training and the freedom to feel, to think and act independently, and Preston would have been dead in seconds.
Riiiiight. Mindless drones that were supposed to be more highly trained than any "gunmen" we have today. 😬
And, no, Preston would not have been dead in seconds. The free-thinking "EC-10" offenders that Preston faced off against in the opening scene pretty much drestroys, on an absurd level, your point.
Gotta go, now. I’ll be back to pwn the rest of your post, later.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope, he is. You're completely missing it.The thread is really done, now. Pwned. Destroyed. I am dead serious. Preston dodged AFTER fully automatics were fired at him. That's bullet dodging, not Gun Kata.
You talking about this, at :30?
That's not bullet dodging, you moron. Preston, as I said, knows the police in side and out, their training, their tendencies, how/when/where they will shoot. All he did was flip out if the way AS they fired. It was NOT before they fired. Stop being a fanboy. He knew where the bulets would be coming from even as he threw the magazines down the hallway.
Not bullet dodging. Bullet dodging is seeing the bullet after it is fired and moving out of the way. Preston never did this.
Bullet dodgers? HG, YuLaw, Neo, Smith, Daredevil. I used to say Danny the Dog, but Rob broke that down for me and convinced me otherwise.
Gun Kata is moving into spaces that have the lowest probability of a bullet trajectory crossing over your person. Dodging bullets would be moving out of the way AFTER the bullet is fired.
Mhm, and Preston never dodged bullets. You;re making shit up now, fanboy.
Preston did that in the hallway scene against two fully automatic assault rifles.No, he didn't. Preston never, not once, "dodged" bullets.HG did it to two bullets fired by useless and scared sh*tless, white collar, thugs.
HG dodged 4 bullets in three different instances WHILE RUNNING AT HER ENEMY, from ten feet away.
Stop being a douche, fanboy.
No, I'm right. You're just ignoring this "new" information that I brought to the thread that completely voids any an all arguments you had built up.No, you're talking outta your ass because you can't stand seeing your boy lose. You're making shit up because you can't stand being wrong.
And, yes, this is a completely new point that no one has brought up about Preston's abilities. I am not referring to anything discussed about Gun Kata and bullet dodging. This is a completely new point. Watch the hallway scene, again. When you've seen the Preston dodges after two military officers open fire. After. That's bullet dodging. Sorry, but this thread really is over and done with. This new information is such severe pwnage to anything else you could bring up that the thread is null.haermm Preston is not a bullet dodged, you loser haermm Your argument is shit.
HG was trained, for years, to specifically bring down that organization. Big Daddy was a former cop (one of the best, apparantly) and was training HG, specifically, to take down those thugs. He knew their tendencies in combat even more than they did. That helped HG exactly as much as we know.So BD was able to peer into their souls and shit? Shang Tsung style? wanker Lui Kang, you will die!!!
Riiiiight. Mindless drones that were supposed to be more highly trained than any "gunmen" we have today. 😬They were just police officers, dude. Nothing suggested that they were uber trained. The only uber training was that of the clerics.
And, no, Preston would not have been dead in seconds. The free-thinking "EC-10" offenders that Preston faced off against in the opening scene pretty much drestroys, on an absurd level, your point.Mhm, afraid he would have been. If the hallway would have been filled with modern day officers that were, for arguments sake, of McClane or Riggs caliber (without his luck of course), Preston would have been killed. The only reason Preston was able to survive the hallway shootout, and the sword fight, is that he knew what the officers/clerics would do before they did it. He was that well trained in gun kata, he was that familiar with the officer training. FFS he had to have been an officer as he climbed the ranks to cleric. Knowing what your opponent is gonna do before they do it is probably the most valuable weapon one can have. Preston had this against all his opponents, this is why he appeared to be a God amongst men.Gotta go, now. I’ll be back to pwn the rest of your post, later.
This is Placidity's point, this is his whole argument, that Gun Kata works in Prestons universe because Preston knows his opponents, their tendencies, when and where they will attack, all before they even do it. HG goes completely against the grain when it comes to predictability.
If Preston tries to use Gun Kata against a single opponent who makes it impossible to predict what they are gonna do next, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Dead cleric.
Originally posted by Mairuzu
RJ, you're not gonna admit defeat, but preston wins. In a hallway, theres not much Hit girl can run to. She'll be trapped. Preston wins by majority.
She'll be trapped? Like she was in Kick Ass? When she dodged bullets several times and took out all the shooters? Yeah......she sucked there, didnt she? 🙄
Preston relies on his opponents being predictable. HG is the complete opposite of predictable. Gun kata is useless here, fact.
HG can dodge bullets.
Still think he wins?