Originally posted by Jinsoku TakaiMost awesome video-game villain ever, that's what.
And... wtf IS up with your avatar. Damn twisted Canadian! lol
Originally posted by mattatomThat's true, it was his "one with the Force" Jacen moment. Not like Anakin's Fury-induced Chosen One moment, but Zoney nonetheless.
Kenobi was in teh zone when he dueed griveous, he became an "avatar of the force" iirc
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That's true, it was his "one with the Force" Jacen moment. Not like Anakin's Fury-induced Chosen One moment, but Zoney nonetheless.
He wasn't Fury-induced, but he was every bit as untouchable. He wasn't even moving himself, the force was moving him according to the novelization.
Obi-Wan during the fight played on Anakin's now Vader's emotions. In a way he played a psychological warfare type battle. While Vader viciously assaulted him, Obi-Wan lured him into areas where he [Kenobi] could control the fight. Vader's bloodlust and arrogance cost him the fact. He may have been stronger in the Force, but when not in control . . . he always would lose the fight. Palpatine even stated "I sense Lord Vader is in danger" - he could have been implying that Anakin had gone insane for a few moments.
I think the real question here is whether being stong in the force will over-come knowledge of the force. Its a debateable topic. As for me I think they are equalizers, 50-50 shot.
Turning to the dark side does not give you more power, it just makes it easier to access and control. It doesnt increase your knowledge, just knowledge of the darkside.
That being said I think a fight between OB1 and Anakin would be equal. If they fought 10 times, each would split wins. Remember in that fight Anakin was pushing the action. OB1 eventually found himself in an advantagious position and Anakins arogance allowed OB1 to strike. In a different place Anakin would have landed a fatal blow.
Originally posted by CaedusRules
I think the real question here is whether being stong in the force will over-come knowledge of the force. Its a debateable topic. As for me I think they are equalizers, 50-50 shot.Turning to the dark side does not give you more power, it just makes it easier to access and control. It doesnt increase your knowledge, just knowledge of the darkside.
That being said I think a fight between OB1 and Anakin would be equal. If they fought 10 times, each would split wins. Remember in that fight Anakin was pushing the action. OB1 eventually found himself in an advantagious position and Anakins arogance allowed OB1 to strike. In a different place Anakin would have landed a fatal blow.
Well a fight is a complex thing with lots of different factors and variables to take into account.
Power, knowledge, blade skills, location the fight's taking place in, environmental hazards, what's going through the fighters minds and hearts, etc. All of these can have an influence. A seemingly 'weaker' foe can defeat a stronger one under the right circumstances.
Like you say, Kenobi used the environment to his advantage. Would things have been different if they'd fought in a big grassy meadow? Very probably yes.
You have a point chilled monkey. As an analogy, even a last place team in MLB can beat the Yankees if the team [Yankees] are having a horrible day. Vader in an open field could have controlled the entire fight and defeated Kenobi, but stranger things have happened. As a fan of UFC, I've watched fights like Griffin vs Silva (which should have been an easy victory for Griffin) go the other way.
The dark side does not enhance power as CaedusRules stated. But Vader was by far more powerful than Kenobi in the Force. Kenobi used his absolute mastery of Soresu and the psyhcological game to win. We'll never know for certain.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
You have a point chilled monkey. As an analogy, even a last place team in MLB can beat the Yankees if the team [Yankees] are having a horrible day. Vader in an open field could have controlled the entire fight and defeated Kenobi, but stranger things have happened. As a fan of UFC, I've watched fights like Griffin vs Silva (which should have been an easy victory for Griffin) go the other way.
.
Kenobi OWNED skywalker, it wasn't close, the novelization makes that clear.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
You have a point chilled monkey. As an analogy, even a last place team in MLB can beat the Yankees if the team [Yankees] are having a horrible day. Vader in an open field could have controlled the entire fight and defeated Kenobi, but stranger things have happened. As a fan of UFC, I've watched fights like Griffin vs Silva (which should have been an easy victory for Griffin) go the other way.The dark side does not enhance power as CaedusRules stated. But Vader was by far more powerful than Kenobi in the Force. Kenobi used his absolute mastery of Soresu and the psyhcological game to win. We'll never know for certain.
You talking about Anderson Silva, dude? If so, you're sadly mistaken to think that Griffin was favored in that fight. I don't know if I've EVER heard such a goofy ass statement like that. Wow! Do you actually WATCH mma?
Originally posted by truejediHuh? Where did the novel make this clear at? I must have missed it. Even if it did, it would flat out contradict what we see on film.
Wait, where did you get the idea that Kenobi beating skywalker was an upset?Kenobi OWNED skywalker, it wasn't close, the novelization makes that clear.
Sorry, but being forced on the defensive for the majority of a fight to where the only advantage you can gain over your opponent is gaining the high ground, is NOT owning your opponent.
Obi Wan was getting kicked around and choked up. He was recieving more hits than he gave. True, Obi Wan was putting up a very good fight against someone who was far stronger than he was, but Anakin was still getting the best of him up until he [Obi Wan] was able to gain high ground.
Originally posted by truejedi
In the part about the fight between Kenobi and Anakin.
Gaining the high ground in any fight (including land warfare) gives a huge advantage over your opponent. For example from the American Civil War, the 20th Maine was understrength unit and was assaulted by a superior force of 2,000 crack Confederate troops led by Gen. McLaws (one of the best commanders in the Civil War). The 20th Maine on Little Round Top held the position despite repeated attacks and killed more than 900 rebels. That was one of many small engagements at the Battle of Gettysburg which saved the Union.
Kenobi may have been getting his ass kicked, but Soresu and playing on Anakin/Vader's emotions turned the fight in Kenobi's favor. Psychological warfare in certain ways is more powerful than brute force. That's what caused us to lose the Vietnam War. As I stated before, Anakin/Vader was stronger than Kenobi - the kid was stated to be 80% of Sidious's power, but he lost to Kenobi? That has to mean something about Kenobi's fighting abilities. It seems that many on here ignore the fighting abilities of Obi-Wan.