Hal Jordan Vs Black Adam

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor absorbed the Null Bomb's energy in the 90s. Hulk busted the asteroid in the 90s.

How does this fact make 60s and 70s feats more relevant? That specifically suggests that older pre-Crisis feats are irrelevant, not the reverse.

Pretending GLs are the exception to the rule seems way off to me. We've had this conversation before. Just GLs? Even though they share the same diminishment, extended near 30 years, that the rest of the DC universe did, purposefully or not, which is ALSO shared by Kal-L AND at least one of their abilities was explicitly affected by the Crisis on-panel?

I laff @ how the bar got moved from pre-1980s to pre-1990s. At this point, you're now dismissing DC's post-Crisis 1986-1990 history and all you're ending up with is dismissing out of hand Thor lifting the World Serpent and stopping a 1/5th universe-busting blast.

so? modern heralds have crazy feats. nobody is disputing that.

how did i say it does?

i never said gl's were the exception to the rule.

i'm not dismissing anything. i was just commenting on what bada said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor absorbed the Null Bomb's energy in the 90s. Hulk busted the asteroid in the 90s.

How does this fact make 60s and 70s feats more relevant? That specifically suggests that older pre-Crisis feats are irrelevant, not the reverse.

Pretending GLs are the exception to the rule seems way off to me. We've had this conversation before. Just GLs? Even though they share the same diminishment, extended near 30 years, that the rest of the DC universe did, purposefully or not, which is ALSO shared by Kal-L AND at least one of their abilities was explicitly affected by the Crisis on-panel?

I laff @ how the bar got moved from pre-1980s to pre-1990s. At this point, you're now dismissing DC's post-Crisis 1986-1990 history and all you're ending up with is dismissing out of hand Thor lifting the World Serpent and stopping a 1/5th universe-busting blast.

No Thor's 1/5 Universe feat was in the 80s. That dwarfs what ever you are talking about. Hulk asteroid feat happened in 1990 not the 90s. You are now trying to be a con salesman twisting words in an illusion as to make it seem as it could have happened in 1998 or something.

Asteroid Hulk is no longer either. He has diminished since that feat too.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk asteroid feat happened in 1990 not the 90s.

you perpetually make an ass of yourself

dude stomped you pages ago, let it go

Originally posted by h1a8
Going that route would make SS, Thor, Hulk, etc. not able to do anything that they have done in the far past if they haven't been doing it in modern times of comics.

I believe most here don't go that route though.

IMO, Marvel has it pre-crisis like days too. When characters were doing silly powerful stuff here and there. Just look at Hulk.

Originally posted by h1a8
No Thor's 1/5 Universe feat was in the 80s. That dwarfs what ever you are talking about. Hulk asteroid feat happened in 1990 not the 90s. You are now trying to be a con salesman twisting words in an illusion as to make it seem as it could have happened in 1998 or something.

Originally posted by h1a8
Asteroid Hulk is no longer either. He has diminished since that feat too.

Thank you for punctuating the inherent hypocrisy behind this entire line of argumentation.

and here comes the fail rebuttal......

I don't know what's to debate? I've said we will be using BOTH versions of the character. So PC feats are valid here. Sheesh.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you perpetually make an ass of yourself

dude stomped you pages ago, let it go

Everyone stomps h1a8 in a debate, tho. Doesn't stop him from bending over and taking more of the same.

I think he likes it. 🙂

Originally posted by -Pr-
so? modern heralds have crazy feats. nobody is disputing that.

how did i say it does?

i never said gl's were the exception to the rule.

i'm not dismissing anything. i was just commenting on what bada said.

1. Pre-Crisis DC Herald-level characters have crazy+++ feats.
2. Modern DC Herald-level characters have crazy feats that don't come close to matching or surpassing those pre-Crisis crazy+++ feats.
3. There was a Crisis on Infinite Earths that retconned histories away and punctuated a wholesale trend towards diminished power.
4. ALL post-Crisis DC Herald-level characters are far less powerful than they were pre-Crisis whether you think they were directly affected or not.
5. Nearly all pre-Crisis DC history is banished for the sake of new histories... which is constantly shifting even more with new DC-wide events like Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis... and even more character-specifically with the 80s' Superman: Man of Steel to the 90s' Superman: Birthright to the 00's Superman: Secret Origin, and Green Lantern: Secret Origin, etc.

With those listed circumstances set side-by-side, what exactly is your justification again for acting like pre-Crisis DC feats are just as valid as 70s and 80s Marvel feats?

That's a rheteorical question.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Everyone stomps h1a8 in a debate, tho. Doesn't stop him from bending over and taking more of the same.

I think he likes it. 🙂

He must have a fetish then?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not really, Marvel's done a decent job of keeping their "big names" average showing pretty consistant(and you're outright insane if you think Surfer was portrayed as being more powerful back in the day). And if you'll notice, the guys from Marvel who haven't been consistantly portrayed ARE recognized by different versions on the forum even though their entire history is still technically canon, that's why people use names like Classic Wonderman even though Simon's technically more powerful now than he was back in the day.

Im not referring to averages but rather single feats. A character now could be more powerful but they can have a feat in the far past that dwarfs their current feats. Surfer is probably an exception. Hulk and Thor are not.

With that said,
Actually I believe WM was more powerful back then than now.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That underlined statement = the dumbest thing I've ever read in the past several months here on KMC. The year 1990 isn't the 1990s? I'm twisting words?

Nuclear explosion to confetti Hal Jordan is no longer either. He has diminished since that feat too. Over 40 years ago.

Thank you for punctuating the inherent hypocrisy behind this entire line of argumentation.

I don't even think you know what the definition of a hypocrite is. Nothing I said is even remotely hypocritical. I'm arguing fairness, nothing more. What is hypocritical about that?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Everyone stomps h1a8 in a debate, tho. Doesn't stop him from bending over and taking more of the same.

I think he likes it. 🙂

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe I win most of the debates. My points are always strong logically. Sometimes (like less than 5%) I am wrong and do humble concede.

drylaugh

1. Ba
2. Hal

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]1. 70s and 80s Marvel Herald-level characters have crazy feats.
2. Modern Marvel Herald-level characters have crazy feats that, except for two examples cited thus far, actually match or surpass those older crazy feats.
3. There was no Crisis on Infinite Marvel Earths that retconned everything.[/B]

[b]4. Nearly all modern Marvel Herald-level characters are actually overall more powerful than they were in the 70s and 80s.[/B]

[b]5. Nearly all 70s and 80s Marvel history remains canon and is consistently reinforced in detailed flashbacks and modern retellings in an almost zealous fashion... Avengers #300's backup tale on the first Avengers' adventure, Avengers: The Origin, Thor: First Thunder, Spiderman and the Secret Wars, etc.[/B]

[b]1. Pre-Crisis DC Herald-level characters have crazy+++ feats.
2. Modern DC Herald-level characters have crazy feats that don't come close to matching or surpassing those pre-Crisis crazy+++ feats.
3. There was a Crisis on Infinite Earths that retconned histories away and punctuated a wholesale trend towards diminished power.
4. ALL post-Crisis DC Herald-level characters are far less powerful than they were pre-Crisis whether you think they were directly affected or not.
5. Nearly all pre-Crisis DC history is banished for the sake of new histories... which is constantly shifting even more with new DC-wide events like Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis... and even more character-specifically with the 80s' Superman: Man of Steel to the 90s' Superman: Birthright to the 00's Superman: Secret Origin, and Green Lantern: Secret Origin, etc.[/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And we both know the Crisis is the exact reason that GLs don't go gallivanting around in time travel adventures.

When discussing the Ring in Last Will and Testament:

"What can it do?" I asked again, still confused.

"Anything." Hal said. "Everything. If you will it, it happens."

"It forges dreams and thoughts into matter. It reads minds. It lets you fly, become invisible, pass through walls, teleport through space-- walk through time."

Originally posted by Juntai
Can't and don't are different things.

When discussing the Ring in Last Will and Testament:

"What can it do?" I asked again, still confused.

"Anything." Hal said. "Everything. If you will it, it happens."

"It forges dreams and thoughts into matter. It reads minds. It lets you fly, become invisible, pass through walls, teleport through space-- walk through time."

And really, if they aren't even allowed to operate outside their sectors, it makes sense they wouldn't be running through time much either.

Of course, Alan Scott fooled with time in Crisis Times Five to evolve a species, and maybe it's a poor argument comparing his magical Starheart energies with the GL's stuff.. But they do seem to operate under the same basic principles.

Same power set, with different weaknesses, kind of like how Sinestro's yellow rings can also do anything a GL ring can..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]1. Pre-Crisis DC Herald-level characters have crazy+++ feats.
2. Modern DC Herald-level characters have crazy feats that don't come close to matching or surpassing those pre-Crisis crazy+++ feats.
3. There was a Crisis on Infinite Earths that retconned histories away and punctuated a wholesale trend towards diminished power.
4. ALL post-Crisis DC Herald-level characters are far less powerful than they were pre-Crisis whether you think they were directly affected or not.
5. Nearly all pre-Crisis DC history is banished for the sake of new histories... which is constantly shifting even more with new DC-wide events like Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis... and even more character-specifically with the 80s' Superman: Man of Steel to the 90s' Superman: Birthright to the 00's Superman: Secret Origin, and Green Lantern: Secret Origin, etc.

With those listed circumstances set side-by-side, what exactly is your justification again for acting like pre-Crisis DC feats are just as valid as 70s and 80s Marvel feats?

That's a rheteorical question. [/B]

you think it helps at all that several of the things you said were actually wrong?

i know it won't make a difference, though...

^ You can feel free to try and point out the inaccuracies.

Originally posted by Juntai
Can't and don't are different things.

When discussing the Ring in Last Will and Testament:

"What can it do?" I asked again, still confused.

"Anything." Hal said. "Everything. If you will it, it happens."

"It forges dreams and thoughts into matter. It reads minds. It lets you fly, become invisible, pass through walls, teleport through space-- walk through time."

Purple prose =/= on-panel feats.