Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Try again. The Astral Plane is a different STATE of consciousness, not a different LOCATION.Except that his ASTRAL form is always located in the ASTRAL plane. It's always existed there, its never left and it's ALWAYS part of consciousness. He just separated it from his body and used it to attack. By your definition, a person who daydreams is considered BFRing. LOL.
Actually, in a comic book VS forum, it does. The rules are VERY flexible and forgiving in this area. Show me ANY kind of resistance feat that shows Dr M has some sort of resistance beyond the physical and you can argue resistance. Otherwise, you should concede.
The King of Self-contradiction shouldn't use the word hypocrisy. Actually, it makes sense that you would use it, since you're the one most guilty of it around these forums. It doesn't really go against your nature to throw around this word like you're completely free of guild from it. After all, that's what hypocrites do.
What's to stop him? Getting destroyed in the Astral Plane by the Surfer, that's what'll stop him. Unless you think the Surfer is just gonna stand there and look at him as he multiplies, that is.
Also, SCANS OF HIM BEING ABLE TO MULTIPLY INDEFINITELY.
You shouldn't make up things when you have no proof.
You provided no proof whatsoever. Where are your scans? [B]Concession accepted.
I'll be sure to sticky this for the next time you try and pull one-ofs as usable feats. LOL. Again, hypocrite. So how MANY times has Superman pulled a planet again?
Again, hypocrisy.
Haha. It's been shown on MORE than one occasion and now you're running away cuz you know you've been pwnd yet again.
Nope. You're the only one who seems convinced that it's considered BFR. The artwork, common sense and even the dictionary definition of "Astral Plane" contradicts your statement.
Because many of the trans beings (especially Thanos) has Astral Plane showings as well. And he's only fought Thor a few times and he wasn't really trying to destroy him during these moments. Plus Thor himself has shown resistances to telepathy and soul attacks himself.
W/c is made completely invalid by your own argument:
See? Delicious hypocrisy right there.
Understand it NOW, kid?
LOL, yet another foot-in-mouth h1 moment...
OMG OMG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Let me quote that again for absolute WIN!
Seriosuly, I fell off my chair laughing at that one.
Nice make believe Profession/Aptitude there, sonny.
What's less funny is how you try to dodge the fact that you're put your proverbial foot in your mouth, yet again.
Actually. IT IS.
It's also about how the opposing character can resist it or prevent it from happening.
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT'S ABOUT PROVING YOUR STATEMENTS WITH ON PANEL PROOF. Something that you've yet to do.
Try again. Different state isn't leaving the battlefield. Otherwise, MM when he phases is BFRing himself. Zoom is auto-BFRd and Nightcrawler is auto-BFRd when he teleports.
Actually, it IS. Matter Manipulation by literal definition is manipulating matter in any way whatsoever, this includes, moving it around/ transporting it, reshaping it as well as destroying it, not just transmutation of it. It's a very general term and teleportation still needs to penetrate Surfer's natural resistance to Matter/Reality Manipulation attacks. Something he's shown on panel .
Unlike you who've shown ZERO feats by Dr M to resist Astral Plane/Mind/Soul attacks.
Like w/c instance? When has the Surfer ever been teleported against his will? And when has this ever harmed him? Provide SCANS pls.
Also, teleportation used as an attack still needs it to go
against the natural durability and resistances of a character and the Surfer has ON-PANEL showing of Reality/Matter Manipulation.No it's not.
Plus there is more than one way for Surfer to attack one's consciousness.
Surfer wins via Astral Plane attack.
Surfer can also win via mindrape.
Telporting someone does NOT equate to teleporting body parts/pieces of him. One dies bit go against natural resistances/durability of the target character, the other DOES. Otherwise, Nightcrawler would be able to beat Hal Jordan by pulling his arm off. :-/
Nice try, tho. [/B]
Astral plane is in another dimension. Always has been. If not then why can't normal beings travel there at will?
SS was shown to leave his body and go into the Astral Plane dimension. This is leaving the battlefield. Also a neutral universe TAKES AWAY what is only present to one universe. For example, in a neutral universe there is no kryptonite present (it must be made from scratch). There is no Astral Plane here anyway since this is a neutral universe.
You ask for scans of Dr. M being able to multiply indefinitely. And you expect me to accept your speculations? Unbelievable.
It is more logical that Dr. M can multiply indefinitely than it is for SS to affect him in any permanent way.
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity. For example, if Superman lifted a car once yet lifted hundreds of other objects equal or of greater weight than the car then him lifting the car is valid and not PIS. Exotic one time powers are totally different. Superman has several planet pulling feats along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
You argued that Thor has shown resistance to telepathy and soul attacks. I'm not sure if that relates to the Astral plane type of attack that SS pulled on a being more powerful (by your admission) than both Thor and SS. My point was not just about Thanos and Thor but everyone SS faces in forum fights. No one argues this Astral Plane stuff against the other character. Why do you think? Be honest.
If someone being more powerful isn't irrelevant as far as proving that character A will ALWAYS BEAT character B then explain how many characters CAN LEGITIMATELY beat more powerful characters based off the reason of key matchups with key powers?
Again MM is still in our dimension when he phases, otherwise he wouldn't have got burned while phased. Zoom is in our universe and in our time. His time just moves slower. U ever study relativity? Nightclawer is allowed to teleport to another location on the battlefield via extra dimensional travel. But he can't teleport outside the battlefield via the extra dimension.
Matter manipulation isn't defined as its name literally. Otherwise, me tearing a piece of paper in half would be considered matter manipulation. When ALL people on the planet mention matter manipulation they are not referring to teleportation. Being able to resist matter manipulation has no bearing no resisting being teleported. You asked when did SS ever been teleported against his will? Well don't you think you are a hypocrite here? You are implying that SS has resistance to this because he was never SHOWN TO BE teleported against his will. I thought by your logic lack of showing resistance due to nil opportunity to show against it automatically means a tactic will work on you.
😕
Surfer can't mindrape anyone. Not even Mary Jane.
Nightcrawler can beat Hal this way if Hal didn't have the reflexes and speed to stop him. Plus Nightclawler can only teleport what he touches and what is materially connected to what he touches. That means if Kurt touches the forcefield (which isn't matter based) then he won't teleport Hal's arm.
Originally posted by Ambient
You have been presented a scan of him unaffected by a reality manipulation in congregation with scan 1 to 4, that in itself pretty much is a definite proof of his resistance towards such form of attack - the manipulation of his atomic structure - .You have been provided proof in regards to our claim, so it is only fair that we ask the same for you and that is Dr. M performing said so attack - teleportation of ones atomic structure - .
Blunt force is not matter manipulation..
I have not been provided proof. One feat or two feats for each argument isn't enough if IT GOES AGAINST A CHARACTER'S ENTIRE HISTORY. Why don't you think others argue this crap in SS vs. Thanos or SS vs. Thor or SS vs. any strong herald or trans character?
Originally posted by AmbientIrrelevant speculation.
That and the fact that Surfer is @ the top of the ladder in regards to energy and matter conversion ( >>>>>> Dr. M ) reversal of such manipulation outside of one who is a far higher in power and skill is his defense toward such attack..
Originally posted by h1a8
Astral plane is in another dimension. Always has been. If not then why can't normal beings travel there at will?
LOL. 2 dimensional beings can't perceive 3 dimensional space even if they exist within it. Same goes with Human beings and the Astral Plane.
ARTWORK already shows that he exists within the same space as his body as it is evident in the scan. Artwork proves your argument wrong. Which is funny cuz "the artwork takes prescedence argument" is the same argument you kept making before. Tastes funny when your own argument is used against you, doesn't it?
Originally posted by h1a8
SS was shown to leave his body and go into the Astral Plane dimension. This is leaving the battlefield. Also a neutral universe TAKES AWAY what is only present to one universe. For example, in a neutral universe there is no kryptonite present (it must be made from scratch). There is no Astral Plane here anyway since this is a neutral universe.
LOL. Now you're just making stuff up (AGAIN!). Reread the rules pls.
Originally posted by h1a8
You ask for scans of Dr. M being able to multiply indefinitely. And you expect me to accept your speculations? Unbelievable.
What speculations? I provided proof that Surfer can attack thru the Astral Plane, your turn to present proof that Dr M can multiply indefinitely.
Oh wait? YOU CAN'T??? REALLY??
We're done here. Concession Accepted.
Originally posted by h1a8
It is more logical that Dr. M can multiply indefinitely than it is for SS to affect him in any permanent way.
Only in your mind, h1. Only in your mind.
Originally posted by h1a8
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity..
Biased as usual. Actually, STRENGTH feats need MORE of the same type of feat because it is required to establish a general consensus on the level of the ability as it tends to fluctuate within a character's history.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has several planet pulling feats
MORE LIES. You failed to even present one that he did w/o assistance.
Tsk tsk. Descending to making up false rules and now downright lying. You've sunk quite low now h1. I'm actually starting hesitant to keep debating with some1 at your level now as it feels quite demeaning now....
Originally posted by h1a8
along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
Post them then. Post all the "comparable strength feats" that are indisputable and doesn't have arguable context surrounding them. Make sure to post more than 2 of each type. Otherwise, I'll just call BS in this and reiterate your hypocrisy.
Originally posted by h1a8
You argued that Thor has shown resistance to telepathy and soul attacks. I'm not sure if that relates to the Astral plane type of attack that SS pulled on a being more powerful (by your admission) than both Thor and SS. My point was not just about Thanos and Thor but everyone SS faces in forum fights. No one argues this Astral Plane stuff against the other character. Why do you think? Be honest.
Yes, that being was more powerful than Thor or SS. Thing is, it CAN be argued that Thor can be hit by SS. Thing is, it can be argued that Thor will be resistant to it as he's been attacked by soul attacks in the past and has resisted it.
Dr M has no such showings of resistance. If you've have posted ANY type of soul/consciousness feat for Dr M, then it would have been argued that he might have some resistance to it. Sadly, you have not.
What is so hard to understand here?
Again, Concession accepted.
Originally posted by h1a8
If someone being more powerful isn't irrelevant as far as proving that character A will [b]ALWAYS BEAT character B then explain how many characters CAN LEGITIMATELY beat more powerful characters based off the reason of key matchups with key powers?[/B]
And I guess this is an admission that Dr M has no feats that puts his power level above the Surfer's?
Originally posted by h1a8
Again MM is still in our dimension when he phases, otherwise he wouldn't have got burned while phased. Zoom is in our universe and in our time. His time just moves slower. U ever study relativity? Nightclawer is allowed to teleport to another location on the battlefield via extra dimensional travel. But he can't teleport outside the battlefield via the extra dimension.
So one character is allowed to enter/exit dimensions as part of his powerset while another is not BECAUSE?
Originally posted by h1a8
Matter manipulation isn't defined as its name literally. Otherwise, me tearing a piece of paper in half would be considered matter manipulation. When ALL people on the planet mention matter manipulation they are not referring to teleportation. Being able to resist matter manipulation has no bearing no resisting being teleported. You asked when did SS ever been teleported against his will? Well don't you think you are a hypocrite here? You are implying that SS has resistance to this because he was never SHOWN TO BE teleported against his will. I thought by your logic lack of showing resistance due to nil opportunity to show against it automatically means a tactic will work on you. 😕
Matter Manipulation is actually a general term. In comics it is the ability of consciously manipulating inorganic, and sometimes organic, matter at the molecular, atomic, or sub-atomic scale.
You mentioned teleportation on a molecular level. I say this is a type of matter manipulation based on the definition. And the Surfer has SHOWN resistance to having his molecules manipulated. So yes, I DO have proof that he can resist any type of manipulation on a molecular level. Now it's YOUR turn to provide proof that teleportation overwrites his PROVEN resistance to matter manipulation.
Hell, have you even showed any proof that Dr M can teleport a person's molecules apart? I've yet to see that?
Do you have any proof at all?
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer can't mindrape anyone. Not even Mary Jane.
This is so fail I'm not gonna get into it. Check his respect thread pls.
Originally posted by h1a8
Nightcrawler can beat Hal this way if Hal didn't have the reflexes and speed to stop him. Plus Nightclawler can only teleport what he touches and what is materially connected to what he touches. That means if Kurt touches the forcefield (which isn't matter based) then he won't teleport Hal's arm.
Then Kurt beats Superman by teleporting his head off. 😄
CIS-on Superman won't blitz and just stand there. So based on h1 logic, NC CAN pull off wins from Superman! YAY!
NC FTW!
Actually skip it. I think I've already established your hypocrisy w/o a doubt.
You see, if you really believed your own arguments, you wouldn't conflict with them so much. This proves that you are either biased or a troll. I happen to believe it's a combination of both. :-/
So, in an effort to prevent the derailment of this thread, I don't think we need to address the Superman issue any further.
I'll just keep it in my pocket the next time you try to argue about the "50 Earth weights" feat.
Anyway, Surfer wins via Astral Projection attack.
Post proovfz or concede.
Originally posted by h1a8
I have not been provided proof. One feat or two feats for each argument isn't enough if IT GOES AGAINST A CHARACTER'S ENTIRE HISTORY. Why don't you think others argue this crap in SS vs. Thanos or SS vs. Thor or SS vs. any strong herald or trans character?Irrelevant speculation.
According to DUDE, since SS hasn't shown resistance TO BEING TELEPORTED then IT WILL CERTAINLY WORK ON HIM.
lols..
You have no proof that Dr. M is capable of said so attack.. Try again.. Even if he was Surfer tanks it.. Period..
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Not only does the artwork make it appear that he is in another dimension but it is understood by definition.
LOL. 2 dimensional beings can't perceive 3 dimensional space even if they exist within it. Same goes with Human beings and the Astral Plane.ARTWORK already shows that he exists within the same space as his body as it is evident in the scan. Artwork proves your argument wrong. Which is funny cuz "the artwork takes prescedence argument" is the same argument you kept making before. Tastes funny when your own argument is used against you, doesn't it?
How am I making up rules? If kryptonite doesn't exist in Marvel universe then are we to assume someone can just go and find some kryptonite there (without making it from scratch)? The answer is no. No one argues that character A from Marvel universe with prep will go and find some kryptonite to plant it on Superman.
LOL. Now you're just making stuff up (AGAIN!). Reread the rules pls.
You speculated that Dr. M will be affected by SS's Astral attack when it wasn't shown that such an attack will be successful against him. Then you turn around and use the same argument saying that since Surfer hasn't never been shown to be teleported against his will then he can't be.What speculations? I provided proof that Surfer can attack thru the Astral Plane, your turn to present proof that Dr M can multiply indefinitely.
Oh wait? YOU CAN'T??? REALLY??
We're done here. Concession Accepted.
False. They don't need the SAME TYPE of strength feats. Superman lifting a billion objects heavier than a car proves he can lift a car, even if he only lifted a car once. Exotic rare powers are totally different.
Biased as usual. Actually, STRENGTH feats need MORE of the same type of feat because it is required to establish a general consensus on the level of the ability as it tends to fluctuate within a character's history.
All his planet pulling feats was with some type of assistance. I never said they weren't in this thread. What's your point?MORE LIES. You failed to even present one that he did w/o assistance.
Post where I lied then. You don't know what you are talking about. I never lie.
Tsk tsk. Descending to making up false rules and now downright lying. You've sunk quite low now h1. I'm actually starting hesitant to keep debating with some1 at your level now as it feels quite demeaning now....
Strength feats only requires FORCE and not special abilities (like going and attacking beings in the Astral Plane). If someone can apply a 50 ton force lifting then they certainly apply it in other ways too. One need not to show similar strength feats to prove a character can perform a certain feat. Hulk held a planet together. That means that same Hulk can lift a tractor (even if he never lifted one in his comic life). Strength feats =/= Exotic feats.
Everyone knows Superman has more strength feats than anyone, excluding Hulk maybe. The type is irrelevant if FORCE can be proven.
Post them then. Post all the "comparable strength feats" that are indisputable and doesn't have arguable context surrounding them. Make sure to post more than 2 of each type. Otherwise, I'll just call BS in this and reiterate your hypocrisy.
Remember my post
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity. For example, if Superman lifted a car once yet lifted hundreds of other objects equal or of greater weight than the car then him lifting the car is valid and not PIS. Exotic one time powers are totally different. Superman has several planet pulling feats along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
I don't accept the logic if something hasn't been shown then it automatically doesn't exist. Because this is more than we know. I will only accept it if it makes some sort of sense that it may not exist (there is some other evidence that it may not exist).
Yes, that being was more powerful than Thor or SS. Thing is, it CAN be argued that Thor can be hit by SS. Thing is, it can be argued that Thor will be resistant to it as he's been attacked by soul attacks in the past and has resisted it.Dr M has no such showings of resistance. If you've have posted ANY type of soul/consciousness feat for Dr M, then it would have been argued that he might have some resistance to it. Sadly, you have not.
What is so hard to understand here?
Again, Concession accepted.
I don't care if Surfer is 10000000000x more powerful than Dr. M. He can win against Dr. M yet Dr. M can win against SS. More powerful is irrelevant.
And I guess this is an admission that Dr M has no feats that puts his power level above the Surfer's?
Yes but as a means to travel to another point on the battlefield. Not as a means to do anything else.So one character is allowed to enter/exit dimensions as part of his powerset while another is not BECAUSE?
SS resisting matter manipulation is not the same as him resisting being teleported. This is because matter manipulation is not teleportation. Teleportation is causing something to not exist then to re exist in another location. Dr. M has shown fine control over subatomic particles in making his clones and other objects of matter. He also shown the ability to teleport him and others at will. This proves he can teleport a beings molecules apart.
Matter Manipulation is actually a general term. In comics it is the ability of consciously manipulating inorganic, and sometimes organic, matter at the molecular, atomic, or sub-atomic scale.You mentioned teleportation on a molecular level. I say this is a type of matter manipulation based on the definition. And the Surfer has SHOWN resistance to having his molecules manipulated. So yes, I DO have proof that he can resist any type of manipulation on a molecular level. Now it's YOUR turn to provide proof that teleportation overwrites his PROVEN resistance to matter manipulation.
Hell, have you even showed any proof that Dr M can teleport a person's molecules apart? I've yet to see that?
Do you have any proof at all?
Concession accepted.
Read my quote again. You misunderstood.
This is so fail I'm not gonna get into it. Check his respect thread pls.
But Kurt is under CIS too so he wouldn't win this way. Now if Superman has CIS on and Kurt doesn't and Superman doesn't know what Kurt is capable of then Kurt beats Superman 10/10. YAY! I finally agree with you.
Then Kurt beats Superman by teleporting his head off. 😄CIS-on Superman won't blitz and just stand there. So based on h1 logic, NC CAN pull off wins from Superman! YAY!
NC FTW!
DUDE I am not a Superman fan, I'm a fan of power and speed and skill. ANY BEING that has a combination of speed with power or skill I will argue hard for (no matter who it is.).
SS loses 10/10. Dr. M wins
Originally posted by D_Dude1210I'll just keep it in my pocket the next time you try to argue about the "50 Earth weights" feat.
.
Keep it in your pocket all you want but
I will shoot you down with this everytime.
Remember my post
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity. For example, if Superman lifted a car once yet lifted hundreds of other objects equal or of greater weight than the car then him lifting the car is valid and not PIS. Exotic one time powers are totally different. Superman has several planet pulling feats along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
Originally posted by h1a8
Not only does the artwork make it appear that he is in another dimension but it is understood by definition.
EXCEPT for the part where his physical body is visible from where he was. LOL.
Originally posted by h1a8
How am I making up rules? If kryptonite doesn't exist in Marvel universe then are we to assume someone can just go and find some kryptonite there (without making it from scratch)? The answer is no. No one argues that character A from Marvel universe with prep will go and find some kryptonite to plant it on Superman.
The Astral Plane is not unique to the Marvel Universe, noob, thus it can exist in a neutral universe. Plus the rules state that this rule excempts whatever is needed to make special abilities function. Reread the rules.
Also, reread your statement as well as my own, I wasn't debating on the Kryptonite portion of it. LOL.
Originally posted by h1a8
You speculated that Dr. M will be affected by SS's Astral attack when it wasn't shown that such an attack will be successful against him. Then you turn around and use the same argument saying that since Surfer hasn't never been shown to be teleported against his will then he can't be.
Nice attempt at strawmanning me but no, I used the arguments that 1) You need to show ANY kind of Soul/Consciousness/Mind resistance feat on Dr M to show that he has ANY kind of resistance to this attack and 2) Surfer has PROVEN resistances against these type of attacks. Teleportation of one's molecules is by definition a matter manipulation attack. Scans were provided by many posters and none by you.
You also need to supply scans to prove that:
a) Dr M CAN teleport a being's molecules apart.
b) That this ability can OVERWRITE Surfer's proven matter manipulation resistance.
So where's your proof, bubba?
Originally posted by h1a8
False. They don't need the SAME TYPE of strength feats. Superman lifting a billion objects heavier than a car proves he can lift a car, even if he only lifted a car once. Exotic rare powers are totally different.
Except that you were once trying to establish top levels (planet pulling or greater strength) by basing it off one feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
All his planet pulling feats was with some type of assistance. I never said they weren't in this thread. What's your point?
Sheesh. Can't keep up, can we?
We were discussing hypocrisy.
The fact that you were once stalwartly defending Superman as being able to pull a planet based of one unproven planet pulling feat (want me to post the thread where this happened?) then suddenly stating that Surfer's abilities as PIS based on "lack of enough showings of the same ability" paints you as a hypocrite.
Originally posted by h1a8
Post where I lied then. You don't know what you are talking about. I never lie.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has several planet pulling feats
Those who claim to never lie are the biggest liars.
Originally posted by h1a8
Strength feats only requires FORCE and not special abilities (like going and attacking beings in the Astral Plane). If someone can apply a 50 ton force lifting then they certainly apply it in other ways too. One need not to show similar strength feats to prove a character can perform a certain feat. Hulk held a planet together. That means that same Hulk can lift a tractor (even if he never lifted one in his comic life). Strength feats =/= Exotic feats.
Stop strawmanning. You tried to cry "PIS" because due to your reasoning, the Surfer needs to show more instances where he reformed.
Yet you cannot feel the sheer hypocrisy in your statement when you claimed that Superman can pull a planet due to one scan (where he even had help) in a previous thread.
Originally posted by h1a8
Everyone knows Superman has more strength feats than anyone, excluding Hulk maybe. The type is irrelevant if FORCE can be proven.Remember my post
[/B]
[b]
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity. For example, if Superman lifted a car once yet lifted hundreds of other objects equal or of greater weight than the car then him lifting the car is valid and not PIS. Exotic one time powers are totally different. Superman has several planet pulling feats along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
Except that you were trying to establish his strength levels. For that you need MORE than one upper end feat due to fluctuations of how a COMMON ability like strength can be portrayed thru different writers/artists.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't accept the logic
EEEEXACTLY...!
Originally posted by h1a8
if something hasn't been shown then it automatically doesn't exist. Because this is more than we know. I will only accept it if it makes some sort of sense that it may not exist (there is some other evidence that it may not exist).
Except that in a debate, we need to show that something CAN be done before CLAIMING that someone can do it.
You've yet to show any proof of Dr M teleporting anyone's molecules apart.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't care if Surfer is 10000000000x more powerful than Dr. M. He can win against Dr. M yet Dr. M can win against SS. More powerful is irrelevant.
Except that it is generally accepted that one's power levels are needed to determine if an ability of one character can overwrite another's resistance when pitted against each other.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes but as a means to travel to another point on the battlefield. Not as a means to do anything else.
So, where in the rules is this exception found or is this MORE made up rules via h1 bias?
Originally posted by h1a8
SS resisting matter manipulation is not the same as him resisting being teleported. This is because matter manipulation is not teleportation. Teleportation is causing something to not exist then to re exist in another location. Dr. M has shown fine control over subatomic particles in making his clones and other objects of matter. He also shown the ability to teleport him and others at will. This proves he can teleport a beings molecules apart.
So you've been claiming that Dr M wins via made up powers that you came up with using made up rules that you just pulled out of your ass?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
LOL.
OMG!!!! I'm DYING!!!
Originally posted by h1a8
Read my quote again. You misunderstood.But Kurt is under CIS too so he wouldn't win this way. Now if Superman has CIS on and Kurt doesn't and Superman doesn't know what Kurt is capable of then Kurt beats Superman 10/10. YAY! I finally agree with you.
Remember, you said it, not me.
You DO know Surfer can teleport ppl right?
Surfer beats Supes too via Teleportation via h1 logic. LOL.
Originally posted by h1a8
SS loses 10/10. Dr. M wins
Nope.
You have provided no proof when continually called on it. You've already proven that you've conceded w/o a doubt. But it's funny to keep watching you stumble on your own fail logic. LOL.
Originally posted by h1a8
Keep it in your pocket all you want but
I will shoot you down with this everytime.Remember my post
[/B]
[b]
Strength arguments don't need many of the same type of feat to prove its validity. For example, if Superman lifted a car once yet lifted hundreds of other objects equal or of greater weight than the car then him lifting the car is valid and not PIS. Exotic one time powers are totally different. Superman has several planet pulling feats along with other feats that are comparable in strength. SS's feat has been shown once. Enough with the more than one occassion crap.
Lemme get this straight. You NEED multiple showings of EXOTIC (by definition, RARE) abilities than you would upper limits of COMMON abilities like SUPER STRENGTH???
Or are you suggesting that since he can lift a car, he can lift a planet, too??
😆 😆
Where'd you learn your logic? I think you need a refund.
😆 😆
Sooo, how MANY instances has he been able to move planets or "lift 50 earth weights" again?
Originally posted by Ambient
Pretty much what h1a8 is all about.. ✅I mean who else would ask to provide proof of defense from a char (Surfer) against an attack (teleportation of one atomic structure) from another char. (DR. M) who in itself could not do said so attack.. ❌
Don't forget that at the same time, he's also asking for MULTIPLE (more than 2) scans of an exotic ability being performed a specific way so as to not classify it (in his eyes) as PIS.
😆 💃 🤣
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Being able to see a physical body doesn't mean you are in the same dimension.
EXCEPT for the part where his physical body is visible from where he was. LOL.The Astral Plane is not unique to the Marvel Universe, noob, thus it can exist in a neutral universe. Plus the rules state that this rule excempts whatever is needed to make special abilities function. Reread the rules.
Also, reread your statement as well as my own, I wasn't debating on the Kryptonite portion of it. LOL.
The Astral Plane doesn't exist in the Watchmen universe. Who cares if it is not unique to the Marvel Universe.
The forum rules speak of nothing you say. Now you are the one lying.
Teleportation is not the same as matter manipulation. Otherwise me picking up a book and moving it would be considered matter manipulation. Nightcrawler teleporting someone's head off would be consider matter manipulation. But they are not. I have already proven that Dr. M can do this through direct logic. Here it is again.
Nice attempt at strawmanning me but no, I used the arguments that 1) You need to show ANY kind of Soul/Consciousness/Mind resistance feat on Dr M to show that he has ANY kind of resistance to this attack and 2) Surfer has PROVEN resistances against these type of attacks. Teleportation of one's molecules is by definition a matter manipulation attack. Scans were provided by many posters and none by you.You also need to supply scans to prove that:
a) Dr M CAN teleport a being's molecules apart.
b) That this ability can OVERWRITE Surfer's proven matter manipulation resistance.So where's your proof, bubba?
Teleportation is causing something to not exist then to re exist in another location. Dr. M has shown fine control over subatomic particles in making his clones and other objects of matter. He also shown the ability to teleport him and others at will. This proves he can teleport a beings molecules apart.
Superman has done many things on that level. I just use that feat because that's the only one I need.
Except that you were once trying to establish top levels (planet pulling or greater strength) by basing it off one feat.
Sheesh. Can't keep up, can we?
We were discussing hypocrisy.
The fact that you were once stalwartly defending Superman as being able to pull a planet based of one unproven planet pulling feat (want me to post the thread where this happened?) then suddenly stating that Surfer's abilities as PIS based on "lack of enough showings of the same ability" paints you as a hypocrite.[/B][/QUOTE]I said, with SOME TYPE OF ASSISTANCE. I didn't say with THE PULLING KIND OF ASSISTANCE. That's a different argument and also moot here in this thread. The fact is I assumed Superman was getting pulling help IN MY CALCULATIONS and still proved he was exerting more than 50 Earth weights of force. Did you even see the calculations? It was calculated for Superman receiving more than HALF the pulling help. Now if Superman pulled alone then the number will be far higher than this.
Why don't Superman have several planet pulling feats? I fail to see how this is a lie. My statement doesn't imply he didn't receive help.
Those who claim to never lie are the biggest liars.
It's a big difference for SS to reform a few times in his career and Superman to have many planetary level feats (feats which require planetary strength). Strength only requires force and not necessarily special abilities. Strength is commutative. Exotic powers are not. Turning a table into gold doesn't mean you can go to the Astral field. But lifting a mountain proves you can lift a pyramid as well.
Stop strawmanning. You tried to cry "PIS" because due to your reasoning, the Surfer needs to show more instances where he reformed.
Strength is commutative.
Yet you cannot feel the sheer hypocrisy in your statement when you claimed that Superman can pull a planet due to one scan (where he even had help) in a previous thread.
I'm not saying that we should say one has an ability if it isn't shown. You are thinking only in terms of pro and con. I'm saying that we just have to play the role of skeptics and say, we don't know. Many many powerful characters in Marvel have never been shown to be attacked on the Astral plane and resisted it. Yet we shouldn't just assume SS will beat them automatically with that tactic.
Except that in a debate, we need to show that something CAN be done before CLAIMING that someone can do it.You've yet to show any proof of Dr M teleporting anyone's molecules apart.
Who cares if that is true or false. The fact remains that being more powerful doesn't automatically grant you a win, nor does it automatically say that tactic A will work on you. It depends on both key power set and power level.
Except that it is generally accepted that one's power levels are needed to determine if an ability of one character can overwrite another's resistance when pitted against each other.
Its about the spirit of the forum rules, why they were put in. An idiot can see this. The rule was put in to prevent people from running away, going to get weapons or other things to gain an advantage, etc. No way is it against the spirit of the rules to teleport to a different location on the battlefield by means of temporary leaving the battlefield. Think man!
So, where in the rules is this exception found or is this MORE made up rules via h1 bias?
What made up powers? If someone can lift a truck then they certainly can lift a table. Because it is commutative. Dr. M being able to finely control subatomic particles and teleport matter at will proves he can teleport molecules as well. It doesn't take strength to teleport anything, just easy specific power to do it.
So you've been claiming that Dr M wins via made up powers that you came up with using made up rules that you just pulled out of your ass?HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
LOL.
OMG!!!! I'm DYING!!!
Surfer can't teleport people. Not only you need to show one instance but several of them to prove he can. This is a specific exotic power which is not commutative like strength is.Remember, you said it, not me.
You DO know Surfer can teleport ppl right?
Surfer beats Supes too via Teleportation via h1 logic. LOL.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Superman has held black holes, had mageddon feat, moved Several planets and a moon, punched so hard it was shattering dimensions, lifted infinite page books, lifted eternity, wrestled with angels and other vastly powerful beings, etc.
Lemme get this straight. You NEED multiple showings of EXOTIC (by definition, RARE) abilities than you would upper limits of COMMON abilities like SUPER STRENGTH???Or are you suggesting that since he can lift a car, he can lift a planet, too??
😆 😆
Where'd you learn your logic? I think you need a refund.
😆 😆
Sooo, how MANY instances has he been able to move planets or "lift 50 earth weights" again?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Don't forget that at the same time, he's also asking for MULTIPLE (more than 2) scans of an exotic ability being performed a specific way so as to not classify it (in his eyes) as PIS.😆 💃 🤣
😂 🤣
Originally posted by h1a8
Seriously...
Double Standard, Hypocrisy and contradiction in a single post..
Brilliant! 😆