Lol still going 😛 moot point still. A no show versus someone with enough works to fill a storage garage hmmm... I wonder whos power creep takes this. Still say if Manhattan were to be flushed out as a character he could take it. But until then this is useless as Surfer's feat list is reaching out my door when I roll it out.
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer did the feat in a non forum fight fashion. Surfer was just sitting there and was allowed to go to the Astral plane. This simply won't happen here period. Doesn't matter if my words or right or wrong. I don't care for semantics. It simply won't happen here. Thus that feat is irrelevant.
Originally posted by h1a8
Near death state maybe the case that helped him get there fast maybe?
With that I concede, as I the only thing I care is that Surfer has no definite way of beating Dr. M.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Lol still going 😛 moot point still. A no show versus someone with enough works to fill a storage garage hmmm... I wonder whos power creep takes this. Still say if Manhattan were to be flushed out as a character he could take it. But until then this is useless as Surfer's feat list is reaching out my door when I roll it out.
Forgot to add Big maybe on Manhattan taking it. Give him a series for like 10 years of running then have this thread again.
Originally posted by h1a8
Being able to see a physical body doesn't mean you are in the same dimension.
Except that the artwork shows that they are existing within the same location. Ergo: same battlefield. Otherwise, WE (the readers) wouldn't be able to see the Surfer's physical body.
This is more proof than what you're presented. All you have is an opinion.
Originally posted by h1a8
The Astral Plane doesn't exist in the Watchmen universe. Who cares if it is not unique to the Marvel Universe.The forum rules speak of nothing you say. Now you are the one lying.
Actually, it does:
Originally posted by Digi
Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.
PWND. Ever get tired of being proven wrong?
Originally posted by h1a8
Teleportation is not the same as matter manipulation. Otherwise me picking up a book and moving it would be considered matter manipulation. Nightcrawler teleporting someone's head off would be consider matter manipulation. But they are not. I have already proven that Dr. M can do this through direct logic. Here it is again.[b]Teleportation is causing something to not exist then to re exist in another location. Dr. M has shown fine control over subatomic particles in making his clones and other objects of matter. He also shown the ability to teleport him and others at will. This proves he can teleport a beings molecules apart.
[/B]
Totally wrong. And totally moot as you've never even provided a scan of Dr M being able to do this. This whole argument is just you making up a power that hasn't been proven to exist. Stop lying and stop making things up. It's pathetic
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has done many things on that level. I just use that feat because that's the only one I need.
Not really. You were pwnd when called on it.
Originally posted by h1a8
I said, with SOME TYPE OF ASSISTANCE. I didn't say with THE PULLING KIND OF ASSISTANCE. That's a different argument and also moot here in this thread. The fact is I assumed Superman was getting pulling help IN MY CALCULATIONS and still proved he was exerting more than 50 Earth weights of force. Did you even see the calculations? It was calculated for Superman receiving more than HALF the pulling help. Now if Superman pulled alone then the number will be far higher than this.
Haha. Dodging the fact that I completely annihilated you in that debate eh?
Also, HOW MANY TIMES did he do this again?
Originally posted by h1a8
Why don't Superman have several planet pulling feats? I fail to see how this is a lie. My statement doesn't imply he didn't receive help.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has several planet pulling feats
You OMITTED the part that he had help on your statement.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's a big difference for SS to reform a few times in his career and Superman to have many planetary level feats (feats which require planetary strength). Strength only requires force and not necessarily special abilities. Strength is commutative. Exotic powers are not. Turning a table into gold doesn't mean you can go to the Astral field. But lifting a mountain proves you can lift a pyramid as well.
Strength is commutative.
Prove these "planetary" feats with scans. Outside of him pulling a planet with Hal's help, you really don't have any that either don't have context attached to them or are disputable.
Also, establishing upper limits (such as your 50 Earth weights claim) needs you to provide both QUANTIFIABLE and INDISPUTABLE proof of this. Via YOUR OWN LOGIC, in multiples (w/c shouldn't be the case).
I am not disputing Superman's upper limits, I happen to think he has planetary-level strength as well.
It is your logic that I question for, as always, it fails and stinks of hypocrisy.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not saying that we should say one has an ability if it isn't shown. You are thinking only in terms of pro and con. I'm saying that we just have to play the role of skeptics and say, we don't know. Many many powerful characters in Marvel have never been shown to be attacked on the Astral plane and resisted it. Yet we shouldn't just assume SS will beat them automatically with that tactic.
Except that in a forum fight, by practice, we need to establish on-panel resistances, otherwise they default to human-level resistances (or w/e race they originate from). Or AT LEAST show ANY kind of resistance that can be argued to be similar to the resistance being implied.
What we DO NOT DO is make things up that do not exist.
Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares if that is true or false. The fact remains that being more powerful doesn't automatically grant you a win, nor does it automatically say that tactic A will work on you. It depends on both key power set and power level.
You made a claim:
Originally posted by h1a8
More powerful is irrelevant.
I completely defeated your claim by providing relevance of more power in a VS debate. Now you're just trying to dodge the whole point entirely as you've been pwnd yet again.
Originally posted by h1a8
Its about the spirit of the forum rules, why they were put in. An idiot can see this. The rule was put in to prevent people from running away, going to get weapons or other things to gain an advantage, etc. No way is it against the spirit of the rules to teleport to a different location on the battlefield by means of temporary leaving the battlefield.
The SPIRIT of the rules??? You're trying (and failing) to invalidate a very VALID form of attack by crying "OH OH IT'S BFR!!" because you can't beat the argument and you have the GALL to talk about "THE SPIRIT OF THE RULES"???
What you're doing is rules butchery borne simply out of sheer desperation. And it's pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Originally posted by h1a8
Think man!
You should take your own advice. Oh wait, the very nature of hypocrites is that they DON'T take their own advice.
Originally posted by h1a8
What made up powers? If someone can lift a truck then they certainly can lift a table. Because it is commutative. Dr. M being able to finely control subatomic particles and teleport matter at will proves he can teleport molecules as well. It doesn't take strength to teleport anything, just easy specific power to do it.
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer can't teleport people. Not only you need to show one instance but several of them to prove he can. This is a specific exotic power which is not commutative like strength is.
"Teleportation/matter manip is commutative so teleporting some1's molecules can be done!"
"Teleportation is NOT comutatitve!"
"Teleporting someone's molecules apart isn't matter manipulation!!"
"The fact that Dr M has fine control of subatomic particles (matter manip) AND can teleport ppl proves that he can teleport molecules apart!!!"
Good ol' h1 logic....!
😆 😆 😆
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has held black holes, had mageddon feat, moved Several planets and a moon, punched so hard it was shattering dimensions, lifted infinite page books, lifted eternity, wrestled with angels and other vastly powerful beings, etc.
Post scans and quantify these claims.
Also, you need to stop omitting the fact that he had help when he pulled those planets and moon. As having ANY kind of help invalidates a feat (by your own argument).
Originally posted by darthgoober
So only feats that take place under forum circumstances are valid huh... well there goes every speed blitz Supes ever preformed 😆 .Surfer wasn't the one that was near death. You should really check these kinds of things out before spewing nonsense.
First, a valid question is never nonsense. Second, Supes speed blitzing has nothing to do with letting SS just concentrate and go to the Astral field. Dr. M can attack SS right after the bell. But that's irrelevant since that would be SS leaving the battlefield.
Originally posted by h1a8
First, a valid question is never nonsense. Second, Supes speed blitzing has nothing to do with letting SS just concentrate and go to the Astral field. Dr. M can attack SS right after the bell. But that's irrelevant since that would be SS leaving the battlefield.
And as far as this particular thread goes, I'm going to need to see scans of Manhattan pulling off the tactics you're claiming for him in combat that happens under forum circumstances...
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Having help doesn't invalidate a feat. I never said this. It just shows that one did less than what the whole feat required.
Post scans and quantify these claims.Also, you need to stop omitting the fact that he had help when he pulled those planets and moon. As having ANY kind of help invalidates a feat (by your own argument).
Superman having help doesn't destroy the fact that he exerted over 50 Earth weights of force.
Its common sense that all the feats I name either dwarf moving a planet with help or compares to it. If you disagree, then tell me which feat you don't think compares to it.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah but it wasn't a valid question because it in no way applied, hence nonsense. Hey you're the one saying that only feats that happen under forum circumstances are valid, that means that Supes has NO speedblitzing abilities by your standards... so let's not hear you bringin it up anymore unless you can post him blitzing under forum circumstances 😉 . Nope, if he's still vulnerable to physical attack(which you're claiming he would be), he's still on the battlefield.
You don't understand. If Thor prays for 5 minute and unleashes a force so powerful that it destroys a planet. But someone uses that feat in a fight vs. Superman, SS, Thanos, etc. it becomes invalid. Why?
Because in a forum fight those characters aren't going to sit there and let Thor do that. That's my point. You can argue semantics all you want but the spirit of what I'm trying to say is VALID.
The question involved does SS have to be in a near death state to perform the feat. If he does then it could affect the outcome. I don't see how that's not a valid question here.
Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand. If Thor prays for 5 minute and unleashes a force so powerful that it destroys a planet. But someone uses that feat in a fight vs. Superman, SS, Thanos, etc. it becomes invalid. Why?Because in a forum fight those characters aren't going to sit there and let Thor do that. That's my point. You can argue semantics all you want but the spirit of what I'm trying to say is VALID.
The question involved does SS have to be in a near death state to perform the feat. If he does then it could affect the outcome. I don't see how that's not a valid question here.
Good so you're going to post scans of Manhattan pulling off the exact tactics you've suggested for him in combat that happens under forum circumstances right? And don't forget that we'll need to see several instances of him doing the same thing to prove that it's not just PIS.
You were looking for a way to downplay the feat so you misread what I said, that's your own fault.
Originally posted by The Nuul
Yeah, right you'll have a better chance of winning the lottery then him doing either one those two.
Yeah, he actually dodged my previous post to his replies and just went to one reply.
He's beat, but in classic h1 fashion, he's just gonna try and stick around until we get bored of him as always.
😆 😆 😆