Surfer/Thor vs Superman/Wonder Woman/Martian Manhunter

Originally posted by biensalsa
Who is questioning Surfer's capabilities of create elements?
NO ONE IS DOING THAT. Is just a simple rule that He can create as much Kryptonite as HE WANTS it will not work on Superman of Universe designated one or in any other Superman for that matter.

BY THIS RULE SS transmutated Kryptonite Will only work on a Kryptonian from SS universe.

Originally posted by biensalsa
You have there scans from modern superman using kryptonite that does not affected him.

You are just disregarding evidence

Originally posted by biensalsa
Even if surfer could depower SM you are just low balling him, he has been shown to get his powers back fast under a yellow sun, He has even survived a red giants core while under the same situation

Felix Faust? Come on HE IS USING MAGICAL RED SUN FLAMES and not even that KILLED HIM

SBP is not Surfer BY A LONG SHOT

No. Felix Faust only magically summoned the red sun flames from Rao. And they knocked Superman for a loop both times. Nowhere was it suggested that he gave those flames a magical twist to them.

Superman is not SBP either. How ironic that you keep trying to use Superman Prime feats for Superman.

Originally posted by biensalsa
When did Superman prime got hurted by alternate universe Kryptonite, even if it was true it can be based on ignorance of the writter, since MOST cases prove the contrary

And plain overpower by the Surfer

In this kind of statements you can see when is worth to debate someone who has probably NEVER read a Superman comic other than DOS

Yes. Silver Surfer is more powerful than Superman. This is established.

You can question my knowledge of Superman all you want. As it stands, you suggesting that Superman can't be hurt by red sun radiation without a black hole around tells me enough about your knowledge of Superman. The days where you can shamelessly promulgate myths on KMC are long over. Don't be stucking fupid.

Originally posted by biensalsa
This has been true even before the crisis.

Do you remember Superman in the pocket universe?

Did he or did he not use kryptonite the did not affected him?

The only thing that is true is that kryptonite from different earth has no affect on the Superman of different worlds but people from different earth are still able to recreate that type of K-Nite if needed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except you just posted scans where a Superman was affected by alternate-universe Kryptonite that was spontaneously transmuted. kinda x8.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So Superman would get the knowledge of the Shiar homeworld when fighting Gladiator... when someone like Hulk doesn't even get that?

So Beta Ray Bill would get the knowledge of Colu when fighting Braniacs... when someone like Majestic doesn't even get that?

Why wouldn't they?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why wouldn't they?

You need to get an Xbox soon!

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
You need to get an Xbox soon!

lol why?

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol why?

http://marvel.com/news/all.14306.nycc~colon~_x-men_arcade_coming_to_psn_and_xbox_live

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
http://marvel.com/news/all.14306.nycc~colon~_x-men_arcade_coming_to_psn_and_xbox_live

😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except you just posted scans where a Superman was affected by alternate-universe Kryptonite that was spontaneously transmuted. kinda x8.

I'm aware you don't read DC comics, so let me explain this to you, The Kryptonite created by elemental lad that actually hurt SBP it was because THAT Elemental Lad was FROM THE PRIME UNIVERSE. Now The Firestorm from "OUR" Universe tried the same trick on SBP and it did NOT WORK. Firestorm is better at matter transmutation than Surfer. So if Firestorm couldn't pull the trick of creating alternative universe Kryptonite, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Silver Surfer can? And Firestorm WILL HAVE more knowledge of this, because He lives in the same world with Superman

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman-2 and Superman-Prime are not Superman.

I'm aware of that, that is WHY I also presented you a scan of "our" Superman handling Kryptonite from another universe, with out causing him any harm

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fine, Surfer sucks the yellow sun radiation from him instantly and/or prevents him from absorbing anymore yellow sun radiation.

I love this one "INSTANTLY" 😂 x 20 you have to consider the FACT that He can retain yellow sun energy BASED on his stress level.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. Felix Faust only magically summoned the red sun flames from Rao. And they knocked Superman for a loop both times. Nowhere was it suggested that he gave those flames a magical twist to them.

Where does it says that He is Magically summoning Red Sun Flames from RAO? He is SPELLCASTING Red Sun energy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/RedSunMysticalenergy.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman is not SBP either. How ironic that you keep trying to use Superman Prime feats for Superman. Ignorance of the writer? The same ignorance that Geoff Johns decided to display when he had Superman Prime not hurt by alternate universe Kryptonite when he introduced him and then had him hurt by alternate universe Kryptonite in another storyline?

I'm not trying to use SBP feats as Superman feats, I just showed you how Kryptonite rules work. YOU ARE ASUMMING I'm trying to do that because you are pretty at ASUMMING things. The Geoff Johns Kryptonite incident has already been explained to you. If you need me to take your hand and guide you through the whole thing, just ask I will gladly help you 😮‍💨

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Silver Surfer is more powerful than Superman. This is established.

Where HERE? Pardon me if I let you in a little secret. Most people who argue in this forums are UNAWARE like yourself of all this little FACTS I have been showing here. Most people think SS has no weaknesses, which is a misconception, all Superhero have weaknesses. Most people are not aware that SS cannot detect powers, in fact they ASSUME based on a scan that Silver Surfer can detect weaknesses. They also believe Silver Surfer has NANOSECOND reaction time because of another misdirected feat, in which He is portrayed removing some shackles "form Galactus" What is conveniently omitted is that is a Hallucination created by a fear eater. So the ONLY nanosecond reaction time feat Surfer has is an ALLUCINATION. Most people are unaware that Kryptonite created by Surfer will not affect kryptonians from another universe and so on and so on.

Also they still think this is Superman from DOS vs Surfer, they are not aware CURRENT Superman is more powerful.

All that, plus the CRITICAL INFORMATION Omitted in a lot of SS feats.

For example, like you thinking that Silver Surfer wins "INSTANTLY"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You can question my knowledge of Superman all you want. As it stands, you suggesting that Superman can't be hurt by red sun radiation without a black hole around tells me enough about your knowledge of Superman.

Hummm, He does not get HURT by Red Sun radiation, Have you ever seen Kryptonians in Krypton yelling in pain because of RAO? Maybe if they go to the beach and get a EXTREME TAN, RED SUN RADIATION WILL HURT, but other than that Red Sun Radiation DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS 😂 X 1000.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The days where you can shamelessly promulgate myths on KMC are long over. Don't be stucking fupid.

This was probably the FUNNIEST LINE 😂 X 2000

[QUOTE=13016601]Originally posted by kgkg
That is not what am disagree with. [B]

Then where is the disagreement? 🙁

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm aware you don't read DC comics, so let me explain this to you, The Kryptonite created by elemental lad that actually hurt SBP it was because THAT Elemental Lad was FROM THE PRIME UNIVERSE. Now The Firestorm from "OUR" Universe tried the same trick on SBP and it did NOT WORK. Firestorm is better at matter transmutation than Surfer. So if Firestorm couldn't pull the trick of creating alternative universe Kryptonite, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Silver Surfer can? And Firestorm WILL HAVE more knowledge of this, because He lives in the same world with Superman

I'm aware of that, that is WHY I also presented you a scan of "our" Superman handling Kryptonite from another universe, with out causing him any harm

I love this one "INSTANTLY" 😂 x 20 you have to consider the FACT that He can retain yellow sun energy BASED on his stress level.

Where does it says that He is Magically summoning Red Sun Flames from RAO? He is SPELLCASTING Red Sun energy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/RedSunMysticalenergy.jpg

I'm not trying to use SBP feats as Superman feats, I just showed you how Kryptonite rules work. YOU ARE ASUMMING I'm trying to do that because you are pretty at ASUMMING things. The Geoff Johns Kryptonite incident has already been explained to you. If you need me to take your hand and guide you through the whole thing, just ask I will gladly help you 😮‍💨

Where HERE? Pardon me if I let you in a little secret. Most people who argue in this forums are UNAWARE like yourself of all this little FACTS I have been showing here. Most people think SS has no weaknesses, which is a misconception, all Superhero have weaknesses. Most people are not aware that SS cannot detect powers, in fact they ASSUME based on a scan that Silver Surfer can detect weaknesses. They also believe Silver Surfer has NANOSECOND reaction time because of another misdirected feat, in which He is portrayed removing some shackles "form Galactus" What is conveniently omitted is that is a Hallucination created by a fear eater. So the ONLY nanosecond reaction time feat Surfer has is an ALLUCINATION. Most people are unaware that Kryptonite created by Surfer will not affect kryptonians from another universe and so on and so on.

Also they still think this is Superman from DOS vs Surfer, they are not aware CURRENT Superman is more powerful.

All that, plus the CRITICAL INFORMATION Omitted in a lot of SS feats.

For example, like you thinking that Silver Surfer wins "INSTANTLY"

Hummm, He does not get HURT by Red Sun radiation, Have you ever seen Kryptonians in Krypton yelling in pain because of RAO? Maybe if they go to the beach and get a EXTREME TAN, RED SUN RADIATION WILL HURT, but other than that Red Sun Radiation DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS 😂 X 1000.

This was probably the FUNNIEST LINE 😂 X 2000

Nnnnoooo, silver surfer is clearly far more powerful than clark. Silver surfer blasting power alone was so powerful that it was creating planet sized black holes in space that even made thanos flee. Silver surfer is so powerful that with a minor powerup during a fight during annihilation he destroyed a planet. Let's not forget him absorbing an entire sun into him, going back in time, creating life and the list goes on.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why wouldn't they?

Originally posted by kgkg
That part was explained near the end of FC Legion of Three Worlds 5 Brainiac 5 explains that Lightning Lad was from Earth Prime.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6842/krpt.jpg

So among other things, how would you explain Jonah Hex killing Superman with kryptonite bullets in Absolute Power, or Superman worrying about getting too close to the kryptonite shard in DC One Million (which didn't turn out to be kryptonite, but he was still worried)?

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm aware you don't read DC comics, so let me explain this to you, The Kryptonite created by elemental lad that actually hurt SBP it was because THAT Elemental Lad was FROM THE PRIME UNIVERSE. Now The Firestorm from "OUR" Universe tried the same trick on SBP and it did NOT WORK. Firestorm is better at matter transmutation than Surfer. So if Firestorm couldn't pull the trick of creating alternative universe Kryptonite, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Silver Surfer can? And Firestorm WILL HAVE more knowledge of this, because He lives in the same world with Superman

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm aware of that, that is WHY I also presented you a scan of "our" Superman handling Kryptonite from another universe, with out causing him any harm

Originally posted by biensalsa
I love this one "INSTANTLY" 😂 x 20 you have to consider the FACT that He can retain yellow sun energy BASED on his stress level.

Where does it says that He is Magically summoning Red Sun Flames from RAO? He is SPELLCASTING Red Sun energy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/RedSunMysticalenergy.jpg

So anytime a magician summons something through mystic powers, the object automatically becomes imbued with magical properties? K, interesting. Noted for future reference. In any case, the scene I was referencing was in Crisis of Conscience. Dr Faustus specifically says he summons red rays (or flames) directly from Rao and lays out Superman with them. They hurt Superman.

Originally posted by biensalsa
I'm not trying to use SBP feats as Superman feats, I just showed you how Kryptonite rules work. YOU ARE ASUMMING I'm trying to do that because you are pretty at ASUMMING things. The Geoff Johns Kryptonite incident has already been explained to you. If you need me to take your hand and guide you through the whole thing, just ask I will gladly help you

Originally posted by biensalsa
Where HERE? Pardon me if I let you in a little secret. Most people who argue in this forums are UNAWARE like yourself of all this little FACTS I have been showing here. Most people think SS has no weaknesses, which is a misconception, all Superhero have weaknesses. Most people are not aware that SS cannot detect powers, in fact they ASSUME based on a scan that Silver Surfer can detect weaknesses. They also believe Silver Surfer has NANOSECOND reaction time because of another misdirected feat, in which He is portrayed removing some shackles "form Galactus" What is conveniently omitted is that is a Hallucination created by a fear eater. So the ONLY nanosecond reaction time feat Surfer has is an ALLUCINATION. Most people are unaware that Kryptonite created by Surfer will not affect kryptonians from another universe and so on and so on.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Also they still think this is Superman from DOS vs Surfer, they are not aware CURRENT Superman is more powerful.

All that, plus the CRITICAL INFORMATION Omitted in a lot of SS feats.

For example, like you thinking that Silver Surfer wins "INSTANTLY"

Originally posted by biensalsa
Hummm, He does not get HURT by Red Sun radiation, Have you ever seen Kryptonians in Krypton yelling in pain because of RAO? Maybe if they go to the beach and get a EXTREME TAN, RED SUN RADIATION WILL HURT, but other than that Red Sun Radiation DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS 😂 X 1000.

This was probably the FUNNIEST LINE 😂 X 2000

Quite a bit funnier than your "HV-depowers-Surfer" myth. I wonder how far you'll take this "red-sun-energy-doesn't-hurt-Superman-unless-he's-in-a-blackhole" myth. If the past is any indication, you won't disappoint.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because someone like Hercules doesn't have the knowledge of general Shiar denizens have of Gladiator. Why would a DC character get more knowledge injected into him because of KMC rules? Strikes me as somewhat of an absurd result. We've had similar discussions in the past. ohno

So among other things, how would you explain Jonah Hex killing Superman with kryptonite bullets in Absolute Power, or Superman worrying about getting too close to the kryptonite shard in DC One Million (which didn't turn out to be kryptonite, but he was still worried)?

hercules would get that knowledge too if it was that big a deal to you.

come to think of it Badabing and I did actually clarify this in the CIP post in the rules.

Martian Manhunter would by no means get more knowledge of Gladiator than Hercules would.

also, Red Sun doesn't actually cause Superman any pain. It just robs him of his powers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
hercules would get that knowledge too if it was that big a deal to you.

come to think of it Badabing and I did actually clarify this in the CIP post in the rules.

Martian Manhunter would by no means get more knowledge of Gladiator than Hercules would.

Originally posted by -Pr-
also, Red Sun doesn't actually cause Superman any pain. It just robs him of his powers.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman crying out in pain says otherwise.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... why would Hercules know more about Gladiator than he actually does on-panel? That's an even more absurd result. Superman crying out in pain says otherwise.

sweet f*ck dude.

they get basic knowledge. that's it. extremely vague knowledge if they've never fought the character before. if they HAVE fought them before, then they have that knowledge too.

seriously, what's your issue with this? what do you want from me, because it feels like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing at this point.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
When was this?

mcduffie's jla maybe?

Originally posted by -Pr-
sweet f*ck dude.

they get basic knowledge. that's it. extremely vague knowledge if they've never fought the character before. if they HAVE fought them before, then they have that knowledge too.

seriously, what's your issue with this? what do you want from me, because it feels like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing at this point.

This is exactly the line of reasoning we discussed with character mindset in this thread (and me particularly in the fourth-to-last-post): http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=503207&pagenumber=4 Your "solution" that now Hercules is injected with knowledge is wholly needless.

Spacefaring characters get a measure of knowledge that would be obtained from roaming the spaceways. Surfer travelling the Marvel Universe. We know what that knowledge is within the universe when he fights someone like the Phalanx. We don't need to give him extra+ knowledge when he fights them such that he knows their Technarchy homeworld's knowledge now. He just doesn't have it. Why are we changing the character? We try, within reason, to inject that same sort of general knowledge into him when he deals with characters from a different universe. But this is all that's needed.

This is exactly how we treat Earth-based heroes. Earth-based heroes get a measure of knowledge that would be obtained from living on Earth. Hercules living on Earth. We know what that knowledge is within the universe when he fights someone like Gladiator. We don't need to give him extra+ knowledge when he fights him such that he knows the Shiar homeworld's knowledge now. He just doesn't have it. Why are we changing the character? We try, within reason, to inject that same sort of general Earth-based knowledge into him when he deals with characters from a different universe. But this is all that's needed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
When was this?

Originally posted by -Pr-
mcduffie's jla maybe?

i remember that thread. The CIP post was actually partially a response to that, iirc.

The general knowledge thing is a maximum, not a minimum.

Hercules doesn't automatically get all the knowledge of Gladiator's homeworld, but if you wanted him to have general knowledge, that would be what it consisted of (that or general earth knowledge, whichever you wanted).

most fights take the stance that both men are strangers, and we go from there. it's when people started wanting general knowledge that we gave them a set of guidelines.

iirc amazo was blasting him with actual energy blasts, not just bathing him in radiation. he was blasting him and changed the frequency to red sun, so i don't consider it the same thing.

i don't recall the red sun actually hurting him in the Ruin story, but its been a while since i read it.

You yourself said Prime =/= Superman. 😛

Originally posted by -Pr-
i remember that thread. The CIP post was actually partially a response to that, iirc.

The general knowledge thing is a maximum, not a minimum.

Hercules doesn't automatically get all the knowledge of Gladiator's homeworld, but if you wanted him to have general knowledge, that would be what it consisted of (that or general earth knowledge, whichever you wanted).

most fights take the stance that both men are strangers, and we go from there. it's when people started wanting general knowledge that we gave them a set of guidelines.

Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc amazo was blasting him with actual energy blasts, not just bathing him in radiation. he was blasting him and changed the frequency to red sun, so i don't consider it the same thing.

i don't recall the red sun actually hurting him in the Ruin story, but its been a while since i read it.

He yelps a few times. And it's pretty clear it hurts from the reactions on his face. I can scan some scenes if you want.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You yourself said Prime =/= Superman. 😛