Originally posted by biensalsa
While he is more versatile and have more powers in quantity, the quality of Superman's powers make up for that disadvantage.See the feats of Superman and see the counters he has.
This is debatable at best
Naah, I disagree... that's like me saying that gladiator is more powerful than silver surfer since he has towed a planet... survived a solar system destroying blast that hit him directly in the face and he didn't have a scratch...his heat vision stalemated tyrants cosmic vision. He crushed planets under his hands... swam through stars a 100 million miles wide. Been stated at least 3 times that he have unlimited strength and the list goes on.
Even though glads have all of this under his belt he is still far less powerful than surfer.
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I disagree... that's like me saying that gladiator is more powerful than silver surfer since he has towed a planet... survived a solar system destroying blast that hit him directly in the face and he didn't have a scratch...his heat vision stalemated tyrants cosmic vision. He crushed planets under his hands... swam through stars a 100 million miles wide. Been stated at least 3 times that he have unlimited strength and the list goes on.Even though glads have all of this under his belt he is still far less powerful than surfer.
Did I said Superman is more powerful than Surfer or Gladiator more powerful than Surfer?
I said
IT IS DEBATABLE, Based on a lot of things you do not know about Superman and based on the NO LIMITS FALLACY that Surfer suffers by a lot of KMC posters.
http://img503.imageshack.us/f/45676322mi0.jpg/
I DO NOT OWN THAT SCAN OR THAT ISSUE, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF, But judging by that panel evidence Surfer has his hands full with Glads AND HE DOES NOT KNOW HIS WEAKNESSES.
Hope KGKG can give issue refference so I can get it
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I disagree... that's like me saying that gladiator is more powerful than silver surfer since he has towed a planet... survived a solar system destroying blast that hit him directly in the face and he didn't have a scratch...his heat vision stalemated tyrants cosmic vision. He crushed planets under his hands... swam through stars a 100 million miles wide. Been stated at least 3 times that he have unlimited strength and the list goes on.Even though glads have all of this under his belt he is still far less powerful than surfer.
More powers =/= More powerful.
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I disagree... that's like me saying that gladiator is more powerful than silver surfer since he has towed a planet... survived a solar system destroying blast that hit him directly in the face and he didn't have a scratch...his heat vision stalemated tyrants cosmic vision. He crushed planets under his hands... swam through stars a 100 million miles wide. Been stated at least 3 times that he have unlimited strength and the list goes on.Even though glads have all of this under his belt he is still far less powerful than surfer.
I guess by this rule, you will rather have all the powers of the Silver Surfer instead of a single power, what about if that Single power is reality manipulation 😄
Originally posted by biensalsaIf you mean by alternate timelines as in, Cosmic King did not come from the future of Superman's timeline, but an alternate timeline, then yes, Cosmic King is from an alternate universe.
Since when ALTERNATE TIME LINES OF A UNIVERSE IS = TO A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE?
Had Cosmic King come from Superman's direct future, you'd have an argument. Because he didn't, you don't.
ALternate universe character made Kryptonite that affected Superman. No need to be so butt-hurt about it.
Originally posted by biensalsaToo bad you didn't read Superman/Batman #18.
No, Sir, you are accusing me of something that is not true, trying to rest credibility to my argument.ON PANEL AND WITH PROOF, I showed you why Kryptonite made by someone who is not from Superman's universe or Kryptonite not from Superman's universe will not harm Superman. Element Lad from Prime universe was the only one capable of creating Kryptonite that Hurts Superboy Prime, Firestorm was not capable of doing it.
Originally posted by biensalsaToo bad you didn't read Superman/Batman #18.
Firestorm HAS MORE KNOWLEDGE OF KRYPTONITE AND IS MORE CAPABLE THAN SILVER SURFER TO DO THISI'll ask you again
"Now The Firestorm from "OUR" Universe tried the same trick on SBP and it did NOT WORK. Firestorm is better at matter transmutation than Surfer. So if Firestorm couldn't pull the trick of creating alternative universe Kryptonite, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Silver Surfer can? "Kryptonite from DIFFERENT universes have a different wave length radiation, in addition to that, they work on a different vibrational pattern.
Originally posted by biensalsaToo bad you didn't read Superman/Batman #18.
I'm looking for that evidence, because It has been said before, but I do not remember in which Issue it was stated.So in order for Firestorm to make Knite that Hurts Superman from earth 3 He will have to make it the same wave length + match the vibrational pattern universe 3.
I'm looking for this evidence and as soon as I find it, I will post it.
Originally posted by biensalsaToo bad you didn't read Superman/Batman #18.
No, the rule is that Silver Surfer will be able to create Kryptonite that harms Kryptonians from Silver Surfer's universe, which is this case it COULD be someone who is Superman's counterpart in Marvel Universe.Besides and in order to put an end to this myth of "SS creating Kryptonite".
Rules of the forum say "Everybody knows Superman is vulnerable to Kryptonite" granted that is a huge disadvantage for Superman, BUT, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION AND RADIOACTIVE WAVELENGTH OF KNITE IS NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE
Originally posted by biensalsaHe didn't fly inside Rao. He flew through it. And they were screaming.
Why then was He able to fly INSIDE RAO?Why then He was capable of power up the ION engines to move Krypton under a red sun?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS4.jpg
Originally posted by biensalsaI don't know why you posted that scan. Because Hulk does retain more energy based on his stress level. The laser completely depowered him. Same as red sun energy has completely depowered Superman in the past. Use some common sense. Posting links without making appropriate deductions =/= cogent argumentation.
And I find it funny how you accuse of trying to portray Superman as Superboy Prime, when you are trying to do the same but with the HULK"The more stress he is under, the more energy He RETAINS from the sun"
Does Hulk RETAINS more energy based on his stress level?
WWH ENDING ANYONE?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Hulk/HULKWWH.jpg
Originally posted by biensalsaAnything summoned magically is automatically magical? That's pretty retarded. So I magically teleport a kitchen knife from my kitchen. I can now use it to stab Superman because it's been imbued with magical properties? Don't be so stucking fupid.
Crisis of Conscience, Yes Faust Summons "red" rays from Rao, which they look to me pretty much WHITE. In any case MAGICK again.How I can explain this to you? OK if it is not NATURALLY there and it appears MAGICALLY there, IS MAGIC, Specially if it's done by spell-casters
Originally posted by biensalsaSuperman has been weakened by red sunlight blasts while in sunlight. It does depend on the intensity. Assuming Surfer cannot muster enough intensity is where you decided to take a leap of idiocy to make your conclusions. But, good luck with that.
No, you assuming AGAIN and really you need guidance so you can understand what I'm saying. Red Sun energy does affect Superman, HOWEVER IF YOU ACTUALLY READ AND COMPREHENDED THE SCANS, you will realize that "The more stress he is under, the more energy He RETAINS from the sun"
To effectively drain him out, He will need to be out of contact from any sun light or starlight as He has also been powered by starlight and Plant mitosis in the past. So, Good Luck with that
Originally posted by biensalsaAnd I choose to believe Surfer's words. You choose to believe PC Superman's words that are irrelevant to Superman.
No, PC Superman saying that He can split a diamond planet in Half is believable, CURRENT Superman at his Current power level in which He lifts singularities is conceivable. Silver Surfer being capable of move is limbs at nanosecond reaction time? ONLY IN HALLUCINATIONS created by the fear eater"FEAR-EATERS
(KKALLAKKI)Classification: Extra-terrestrial, demonspawn
Location/Base of Operations: Mobile throughout known universe
Known Members: One unnamed (deceased)
Affiliations: Offspring of the Fear Lord Kkallakku, Cold War (created by a fear-eater)
Enemies: Captain (Steve Rogers), Daredevil, Silver Surfer, Thing, Thor
First Appearance: Marvel Comics Presents#1/4 (September, 1988)
Powers/Abilities: The Fear-Eaters exist entirely off of fear of other beings. They can phase extra-dimensionally, assuming an immaterial form, and merge with a host. Once merged, they can read the minds of their host, determining its greatest fears. The Fear-Eater than can generate [b] hallucinations
which cause the host to confront its greatest fear. The Fear-Eater draws strength from this and will continue to cause intense fear until its victim either dies or overcomes its fears. If a Fear-Eater is deprived of fear for too long of a period, it will die of starvation. "[/b]
Originally posted by biensalsaI don't claim this as a stomp. But should Surfer choose to suck the yellow radiation out, I don't see it being much of a problem at all. He can suck the gamma radiation instantly out of Hulk who accesses it from a dimension of infinite gamma radiation. And if Surfer simply blocks it completely (with or without red sunlight), that's it, he's done. Which you agree with, since red sunlight doesn't strip his powers, it just blocks it.
No you did not said that EXPLICITLY, However every time I see a post of you, you give the impression and the Idea that in a fight between this two SS will win 10/10 and As far as I remember most of the time you claim this as stomp. Didn't you said:This gives the impression that According to you Silver Surfer sucks the yellow sun radiation from him INSTANTLY and wins
Originally posted by biensalsaThe three Supermen screaming in the first scan doesn't give me faith you read comics. And natural non-yellow sunlight-powered Kryptonians =/= Superman. Superman has screamed in pain from red sunlight. Many times.
You still sore for that? Sorry 😄. And get it in your head RED SUN'S DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS, unless the kryptonians are in direct contact with the flames from the sun, Oh! wait maybe not.I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN PAIN
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS2.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS3.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS5.jpg
^ I'm not arguing he can never not be hurt by it. I'm arguing against the idea that he never feels pain from it or that it will never work unless he's in a locked room or in a blackhole.
I'm arguing against absolutist nonsense, therefore instances of dispositive evidence rules. It's not my fault he thinks this is an open-shut case.
Originally posted by biensalsaAnd red sunlight hurts.
Should you actually OWN OR HAVE READ those comics, You will actually see how wrong You are. Here let me help you againSinestro Corps War:
THE GUYS IS A FREAKING WALKING STAR OF COURSE IS GOING TO HURT
Originally posted by biensalsaI will post scans of Superman screaming in pain tonight from those comics. I'm sorry for you
Adventures of Superman #645-47:I DID NOT saw him screaming not even once. And I saw him regaining his powers after being attacked by someone who has WAAAAAAAAAY MORE THAN COMMON KNOWLEDGE on Superman, The guy is being studying Superman for SEVERAL YEARS, He knows Superman better than Superman himself AND He BASED ON HIS VAST KNOWLEDGE ON SUPERMAN HE designed a machine to exactly depower him.
Originally posted by biensalsaSee above.
IS SURFER A WALKING RED SUN? Plus You have seen PLENTY of examples of Kryptonians under Red Sun Radiation. It does not hurt. Ignorance could be attributed to those depictions or an unknown factor involved
Originally posted by biensalsaProve that the first time Surfer met Gladiator, Gladiator told him his own weakness. Your question is utterly inconsequential.
If you can prove that Galactus Devourer is the first time they meet. I concede that SS can detect weaknesses. And "detecting" TELEPATHS does not cut it.
Originally posted by -Pr-
he's also been bathed in it and shown no pain whatsoever. more than once too.also, again, it seems like you're picking and choosing just a lil. 😛
FMIIW, but I thought red sunlight simply de-powered Supes (and all Kryptonians and Daxamites), not caused him pain, whereas kryptonite both depowered him and was lethal/poisonous to Kryptonians?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I'm not arguing he can never not be hurt by it. I'm arguing against the idea that he never feels pain from it or that it will never work unless he's in a locked room or in a blackhole.I'm arguing against absolutist nonsense, therefore instances of dispositive evidence rules. It's not my fault he thinks this is an open-shut case. And red sunlight hurts. I will post scans of Superman screaming in pain tonight from those comics. I'm sorry for you
pretendingnot remembering the comic. See above. Prove that the first time Surfer met Gladiator, Gladiator told him his own weakness. Your question is utterly inconsequential.
i don't think the scan you're referencing says he was hurt by red sun. they were flying through a star after all, and this is the same superman that survived the explosion of a red sun eater. he does make mention of how hot it is, and red solar radiation doesn't give off heat by itself that we know of.
i'd agree with what you're trying to get at in theory, if i didn't think that you were using a bad example.
Originally posted by illadelph12
FMIIW, but I thought red sunlight simply de-powered Supes (and all Kryptonians and Daxamites), not caused him pain, whereas kryptonite both depowered him and was lethal/poisonous to Kryptonians?
I'd agree with you on that.
Originally posted by -Pr-biensalsa was trying to use Infinite Crisis as an example to prove his theory that red sun radiation never hurts Superman. I simply pointed out that they were screaming and his experiencing pain makes sense. You can disagree with that, but that's not the example I used. You can simply look to Crisis of Conscience or Adventures of Superman #645-47 for examples where he is specifically screaming in pain.
i don't think the scan you're referencing says he was hurt by red sun. they were flying through a star after all, and this is the same superman that survived the explosion of a red sun eater. he does make mention of how hot it is, and red solar radiation doesn't give off heat by itself that we know of.i'd agree with what you're trying to get at in theory, if i didn't think that you were using a bad example.
To wit, the examples that I used.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0You know the screaming bit doesn't prove that the red sunlight causes pain so much that being in the core of a red sun while his powers are on the wane hurts like hell.
^ I'm not arguing he can never not be hurt by it. I'm arguing against the idea that he never feels pain from it or that it will never work unless he's in a locked room or in a blackhole.I'm arguing against absolutist nonsense, therefore instances of dispositive evidence rules. It's not my fault he thinks this is an open-shut case. And red sunlight hurts. I will post scans of Superman screaming in pain tonight from those comics. I'm sorry for you
pretendingnot remembering the comic. See above. Prove that the first time Surfer met Gladiator, Gladiator told him his own weakness. Your question is utterly inconsequential.
It's not the red sunlight: its the heat that hurts. It's like a magic bullet. Magic itself isn't what's hurting Superman in that case, the bullet is.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
biensalsa was trying to use Infinite Crisis as an example to prove his theory that red sun radiation never hurts Superman. I simply pointed out that they were screaming and his experiencing pain makes sense. You can disagree with that, but that's not the example I used. You can simply look to Crisis of Conscience or Adventures of Superman #645-47 for examples where he is specifically screaming in pain.To wit, the examples that [b]I used
. [/B]
Originally posted by biensalsahttp://img503.imageshack.us/f/45676322mi0.jpg/
I DO NOT OWN THAT SCAN OR THAT ISSUE, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF, But judging by that panel evidence Surfer has his hands full with Glads AND HE DOES NOT KNOW HIS WEAKNESSES.
Not 616 surfer.......
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
biensalsa was trying to use Infinite Crisis as an example to prove his theory that red sun radiation never hurts Superman. I simply pointed out that they were screaming and his experiencing pain makes sense. You can disagree with that, but that's not the example I used. You can simply look to Crisis of Conscience or Adventures of Superman #645-47 for examples where he is specifically screaming in pain.To wit, the examples that [b]I used
. [/B]
#645 he's not just bathing him in red sun. he's using energy blasts. plus, they're still engaged in physical combat for parts of the fight while superman is weakened.
granted #647 is more ambiguous, but not enough to make me believe that red sun by itself is harmful.
the amazo one and the up, up and away examples don't do it for me either, tbh.
if anything they're examples that red sun needs to be used as an actual weapon rather than a simple light source to actually hurt him.
what crisis of conscience part are you talking about?
Originally posted by biensalsalol the only magical element was that they were summoned there
Crisis of Conscience, Yes Faust Summons "red" rays from Rao, which they look to me pretty much WHITE. In any case MAGICK again.How I can explain this to you? OK if it is not NATURALLY there and it appears MAGICALLY there, IS MAGIC, Specially if it's done by spell-casters 😂
eh, he's still hitting him with flames of a sort.
if he's hitting him with just red solar radiation (like lamps and such) it shouldn't cause him pain.
it seems to be when it's weaponised that it causes him trouble.
at least imo.
i can honestly see why people would think red sun can cause him pain, and that's fine. its a contentious enough subject that even if i think someone's wrong, it's not enough of a thing where i feel they're trolling to say otherwise. it's a fair argument either way...
