Surfer/Thor vs Superman/Wonder Woman/Martian Manhunter

Started by kgkg10 pages

Originally posted by biensalsa
[QUOTE=13016601]Originally posted by kgkg
[B]That is not what am disagree with. [B]

Then where is the disagreement? 🙁 [/B]

I'm disagreeing with the part where you said
Originally posted by biensalsa
. AND ONLY Kryptonite molecularly trans-mutated from people of the same universe will harm kryptonians from that particular universe.
Kryptonite from alternate universe doesn't necessary affect mainstream Superman we have seen cases like this a few times... But I'm not sure where your getting the part that the characters creating Knite have to be from his home universe to affect him.

The only reason why these alternate universe's Kryptonite doesn't affect him is that it they produce different radiation. < as noted by Superman when he was fighting Time Trapper's Super boy>

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So among other things, how would you explain Jonah Hex killing Superman with kryptonite bullets in Absolute Power, or Superman worrying about getting too close to the kryptonite shard in DC One Million (which didn't turn out to be kryptonite, but he was still worried)?
The only time I recall New earth Superman not getting affected by K-nite were both from Pre-Crisis era Knite. Time lines were changing but the Knite radiation could have remained the same.

Also DC one Million is from New earth but from the future so unless I missed something I don't see why it wouldn't affect Superman.

Originally posted by biensalsa
It has been established in DC universe that ONLY kryptonite from his OWN universe harms Kryptonians from that particular universe. AND ONLY Kryptonite molecularly trans-mutated from people of the same universe will harm kryptonians from that particular universe.
Originally posted by kgkg
I'm disagreeing with the part where you said Kryptonite from alternate universe doesn't necessary affect mainstream Superman we have seen cases like this a few times... But I'm not sure where your getting the part that the characters creating Knite have to be from his home universe to affect him.
What we can be sure of is that biensalsa never read this scene in Superman/Batman #18, where Cosmic King, who is from an alternate reality, transmuted Superman's blood iron into kryptonite:

Ouch.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What we can be sure of is that biensalsa never read this scene in Superman/Batman #18, where Cosmic King, who is from an alternate reality, transmuted Superman's blood iron into kryptonite:

That was an alternate universe Superman too, iirc.

^ Real Superman. Reality kept shifting around him and Batman. And no matter what, that Superman and that Cosmic King were not from the same reality.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Real Superman. Reality kept shifting around him and Batman. And no matter what, that Superman and that Cosmic King were not from the same reality.

It's been a while since i read it, so you could be right.

Assuming Superman has iron in his blood, how does that relate to kryptonite?

^ A character from a different universe transmuted kryptonite that hurt Superman on-panel. Contrary to biensalsa's proclamations/predictions.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ A character from a different universe transmuted kryptonite that hurt Superman on-panel. Contrary to biensalsa's proclamations/predictions.

oh right, i only half read the panel.

i'd wonder if johns' writing of the other supermen doesn't apply to earth 1 superman, then, unless his was a broader retcon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm aware your facetiousness is wasted. Superman =/= Superman Prime.

No, Sir, you are accusing me of something that is not true, trying to rest credibility to my argument.

ON PANEL AND WITH PROOF, I showed you why Kryptonite made by someone who is not from Superman's universe or Kryptonite not from Superman's universe will not harm Superman. Element Lad from Prime universe was the only one capable of creating Kryptonite that Hurts Superboy Prime, Firestorm was not capable of doing it.

Firestorm HAS MORE KNOWLEDGE OF KRYPTONITE AND IS MORE CAPABLE THAN SILVER SURFER TO DO THIS

I'll ask you again
"Now The Firestorm from "OUR" Universe tried the same trick on SBP and it did NOT WORK. Firestorm is better at matter transmutation than Surfer. So if Firestorm couldn't pull the trick of creating alternative universe Kryptonite, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Silver Surfer can? "

Kryptonite from DIFFERENT universes have a different wave length radiation, in addition to that, they work on a different vibrational pattern.

I'm looking for that evidence, because It has been said before, but I do not remember in which Issue it was stated.

So in order for Firestorm to make Knite that Hurts Superman from earth 3 He will have to make it the same wave length + match the vibrational pattern universe 3.

I'm looking for this evidence and as soon as I find it, I will post it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So the assumption is Surfer is going to be making that type of kryptonite or Superman Prime's kryptonite, instead of Superman's kryptonite?

No, the rule is that Silver Surfer will be able to create Kryptonite that harms Kryptonians from Silver Surfer's universe, which is this case it COULD be someone who is Superman's counterpart in Marvel Universe.

Besides and in order to put an end to this myth of "SS creating Kryptonite".

Rules of the forum say "Everybody knows Superman is vulnerable to Kryptonite" granted that is a huge disadvantage for Superman, BUT, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION AND RADIOACTIVE WAVELENGTH OF KNITE IS NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So what? The amount of energy Hulk harnesses is also directly related to his stress levels. Hasn't prevented Surfer from utterly stripping them in moments and Superman's stress levels haven't prevented him from being hurt by red sun radiation. Stop pretending like it doesn't affect him if he's mad.

Why then was He able to fly INSIDE RAO?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/CRAZY%20FEATS/supermanfliesthroughrao.jpg

Why then He was capable of power up the ION engines to move Krypton under a red sun?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS4.jpg

And I find it funny how you accuse of trying to portray Superman as Superboy Prime, when you are trying to do the same but with the HULK 😂

"The more stress he is under, the more energy He RETAINS from the sun"

Does Hulk RETAINS more energy based on his stress level?

WWH ENDING ANYONE?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Hulk/HULKWWH.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So anytime a magician summons something through mystic powers, the object automatically becomes imbued with magical properties? K, interesting. Noted for future reference. In any case, the scene I was referencing was in Crisis of Conscience. Dr Faustus specifically says he summons red rays (or flames) directly from Rao and lays out Superman with them. They hurt Superman.

Crisis of Conscience, Yes Faust Summons "red" rays from Rao, which they look to me pretty much WHITE. In any case MAGICK again.

How I can explain this to you? OK if it is not NATURALLY there and it appears MAGICALLY there, IS MAGIC, Specially if it's done by spell-casters 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
By kgkg. Which is still Superman Prime. I also see how hard you're trying to help me understand your myth propagation that red sun energy doesn't affect Superman when he's stressed, i.e., you'd need a black hole + red sun energy. Hilarious.

No, you assuming AGAIN and really you need guidance so you can understand what I'm saying. Red Sun energy does affect Superman, HOWEVER IF YOU ACTUALLY READ AND COMPREHENDED THE SCANS, you will realize that "The more stress he is under, the more energy He RETAINS from the sun"
To effectively drain him out, He will need to be out of contact from any sun light or starlight as He has also been powered by starlight and Plant mitosis in the past. So, Good Luck with that 😄

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Surfer's statements are Surfer's statements. I am aware you're gleefully enjoying a double-standard when you believe PC Superman's statements that his karate chop would have split a diamond planet but Surfer stating he did something in a nano-second cannot be trusted.

No, PC Superman saying that He can split a diamond planet in Half is believable, CURRENT Superman at his Current power level in which He lifts singularities is conceivable. Silver Surfer being capable of move is limbs at nanosecond reaction time? ONLY IN HALLUCINATIONS created by the fear eater 😄

"FEAR-EATERS
(KKALLAKKI)

Classification: Extra-terrestrial, demonspawn

Location/Base of Operations: Mobile throughout known universe

Known Members: One unnamed (deceased)

Affiliations: Offspring of the Fear Lord Kkallakku, Cold War (created by a fear-eater)

Enemies: Captain (Steve Rogers), Daredevil, Silver Surfer, Thing, Thor

First Appearance: Marvel Comics Presents#1/4 (September, 1988)

Powers/Abilities: The Fear-Eaters exist entirely off of fear of other beings. They can phase extra-dimensionally, assuming an immaterial form, and merge with a host. Once merged, they can read the minds of their host, determining its greatest fears. The Fear-Eater than can generate hallucinations which cause the host to confront its greatest fear. The Fear-Eater draws strength from this and will continue to cause intense fear until its victim either dies or overcomes its fears. If a Fear-Eater is deprived of fear for too long of a period, it will die of starvation. "

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I said Surfer wins instantly? You should get your own comic book series what with your superpower enabling you to rewrite history. I won't accuse you of straw-manning me. You're far too smart to fall into those tactics.

No you did not said that EXPLICITLY, However every time I see a post of you, you give the impression and the Idea that in a fight between this two SS will win 10/10 and As far as I remember most of the time you claim this as stomp. Didn't you said:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fine, Surfer sucks the yellow sun radiation from him INSTANTLY and/or prevents him from absorbing anymore yellow sun radiation.

This gives the impression that According to you Silver Surfer sucks the yellow sun radiation from him INSTANTLY and wins 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... you're kidding me. Srsly? "This was probably the FUNNIEST LINE 😂 X 2000" indeed.
Quite a bit funnier than your "HV-depowers-Surfer" myth. I wonder how far you'll take this "red-sun-energy-doesn't-hurt-Superman-unless-he's-in-a-blackhole" myth. If the past is any indication, you won't disappoint.

You still sore for that? Sorry 😄. And get it in your head RED SUN'S DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS, unless the kryptonians are in direct contact with the flames from the sun, Oh! wait maybe not.

I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN PAIN

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/CRAZY%20FEATS/supermanfliesthroughrao.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS2.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS3.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS5.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman crying out in pain says otherwise.

MAGICK + RED SUN FLAMES OR BLAST

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Twice in that fight IIRC. Crisis of Conscience. Also when Superman fights Ruin in Adventures of Superman #645-47. Pretty sure the idea is that the pain comes from Superman having to cope with his body being blocked/drained of its powers. Hell Superman Prime yelps in Sinestro Corps War.

Should you actually OWN OR HAVE READ those comics, You will actually see how wrong You are. Here let me help you again

Sinestro Corps War:

THE GUYS IS A FREAKING WALKING STAR OF COURSE IS GOING TO HURT

Crisis of Conscience

MAGIC + RED SUN ENERGY BLAST

Adventures of Superman #645-47:

I DID NOT saw him screaming not even once. And I saw him regaining his powers after being attacked by someone who has WAAAAAAAAAY MORE THAN COMMON KNOWLEDGE on Superman, The guy is being studying Superman for SEVERAL YEARS, He knows Superman better than Superman himself AND He BASED ON HIS VAST KNOWLEDGE ON SUPERMAN HE designed a machine to exactly depower him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think the red sun radiation part of it had more to do with the pain than anything else. Meh.

He yelps a few times. And it's pretty clear it hurts from the reactions on his face. I can scan some scenes if you want.

IS SURFER A WALKING RED SUN? Plus You have seen PLENTY of examples of Kryptonians under Red Sun Radiation. It does not hurt. Ignorance could be attributed to those depictions or an unknown factor involved

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What we can be sure of is that biensalsa never read this scene in Superman/Batman #18, where Cosmic King, who is from an alternate reality, transmuted Superman's blood iron into kryptonite:

Kindergarten mistake

Since when ALTERNATE TIME LINES OF A UNIVERSE IS = TO A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ A character from a different universe transmuted kryptonite that hurt Superman on-panel. Contrary to biensalsa's proclamations/predictions.

😂 A character from the same universe on a different time-line did it

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So among other things, how would you explain Jonah Hex killing Superman with kryptonite bullets in Absolute Power, or Superman worrying about getting too close to the kryptonite shard in DC One Million (which didn't turn out to be kryptonite, but he was still worried)?

Parallel time lines, same UNIVERSE

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Like biensalsa is arguing, the fact that one alien race used weakening radiation against Gladiator is clear evidence that the knowledge is common for folks who are "well-traveled" throughout the universe like Surfer... after all... it couldn't have been Surfer's simple use of Cosmic Awareness.

If you can prove that Galactus Devourer is the first time they meet. I concede that SS can detect weaknesses. And "detecting" TELEPATHS does not cut it.

Originally posted by kgkg
I'm disagreeing with the part where you said Kryptonite from alternate universe doesn't necessary affect mainstream Superman we have seen cases like this a few times... But I'm not sure where your getting the part that the characters creating Knite have to be from his home universe to affect him.

The only reason why these alternate universe's Kryptonite doesn't affect him is that it they produce different radiation. < as noted by Superman when he was fighting Time Trapper's Super boy>

I do remember an instance in which it was said that the Kryptonite has to be attuned to the vibrational pattern of the Kryptonian as well, besides the radiation and this was the explination why Kryptonite did not worked on other universe kryptonians, but like I said I so not remember where this was and I'm looking for it

This was probably somebody trying to make a plan to bring SBP down with a molecular transmutator and I think Batman said something along the lines of having to match as well the vibrational pattern of the universe, besiedes the exact frequency of the Knite.

I could be wrong, but I will keep looking for it

Originally posted by illadelph12
Ouch.

You are cheerlading the wrong argument 😂

Originally posted by carver9
Nnnnoooo, silver surfer is clearly far more powerful than clark. Silver surfer blasting power alone was so powerful that it was creating planet sized black holes in space that even made thanos flee. Silver surfer is so powerful that with a minor powerup during a fight during annihilation he destroyed a planet. Let's not forget him absorbing an entire sun into him, going back in time, creating life and the list goes on.

I guess this knowledge comes from:

"I'm just going by what I have read from posters on kmc."

And not by actually reading COMICS

Originally posted by biensalsa
I guess this knowledge comes from:

"I'm just going by what I have read from posters on kmc."

And not by actually reading COMICS

So I guess this means that you can't counter my argument huh? How about silver surfer creating clones of himself with their own personality. Linking everyone on the planet earth to his mind... letting them experience how it feels to fly through space. Controlling the crunch... matter manipulating...being cut into tiny chunks but is still talking and communicating like nothing happen. Teleprtation... absorbing people into his board...taking people powers away from them. Would you like for me to continue?

*Correction 😄

You still sore for that? Sorry . And get it in your head RED SUN'S DOES NOT HURT KRYPTONIANS, unless the kryptonians are in direct contact with the flames from the sun,

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/CRAZY%20FEATS/supermanfliesthroughrao.jpg

Oh! wait maybe not.

I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN PAIN

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS2.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS3.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/KTONIANS5.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
So I guess this means that you can't counter my argument huh? How about silver surfer creating clones of himself with their own personality. Linking everyone on the planet earth to his mind... letting them experience how it feels to fly through space. Controlling the crunch... matter manipulating...being cut into tiny chunks but is still talking and communicating like nothing happen. Teleprtation... absorbing people into his board...taking people powers away from them. Would you like for me to continue?

Why do you intentionally mislead people?

edit: you need to fix your links biensalsa.

Originally posted by carver9
So I guess this means that you can't counter my argument huh? How about silver surfer creating clones of himself with their own personality. Linking everyone on the planet earth to his mind... letting them experience how it feels to fly through space. Controlling the crunch... matter manipulating...being cut into tiny chunks but is still talking and communicating like nothing happen. Teleprtation... absorbing people into his board...taking people powers away from them. Would you like for me to continue?

While he is more versatile and have more powers in quantity, the quality of Superman's powers make up for that disadvantage.

See the feats of Superman and see the counters he has.

This is debatable at best

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do you intentionally mislead people?

edit: you need to fix your links biensalsa.

How am I misleading people when "everything" that I said happened? Please let me know something that I said in my post that wasn't true.

Originally posted by carver9
How am I misleading people when "everything" that I said happened? Please let me know something that I said in my post that wasn't true.

You ignore context and try to make things out to be what thay aren't by using overly vague terms that give no idea of the truth of the matter. You get a wide berth as it is dude, but stuff like that is only going to get you in to trouble when you measure it against the amount of lowballing you do.