Raziel vs OOT Link

The gameplay speed?

Yes. You use the gamplay speed of Links great spin bollocks as well as Dark Link jumping on Links sword as if its canon so why are you so picky about this? Things that occur in gameplay are only non-canon if they either contradict something that occurs in a cutscene or another, higher form of canon or if theres a way to do it differently, in which case its not possible to prove it ever happened. The 'lightning' (which is btw, ball lightning at best, a magic attack which is yellow at worst) doesn't do the latter and you need to post the latter if its there.

A similar attack travels to and strikes Link instantly in a cutscene earlier in the game. (Before either character has their piece of the triforce)

Post it. Also, similar doesn't equal the same..

And Ganondorf's been shoosting lightning bolts since 1991, it's a staple attack, infact.

Post it. Prove that its actual full-speed lightning and not 'yellow jellyfish attack which might hit you this century if you're really lucky' (tm).

In FSA, which predates OoT chronologicly, despite being released later, Ganon uses full speed lightning,

Prove it.

in aLttP, same deal,

Prove. It.

infact, the ONLY times his attacks have ever been depicted as slow are in gameplay when Link (the player) needs to reflect them. How do you propose a human player reflect lightning in real time? 😐

Give the character superspeed. Or just don't make the player have to reflect lightning with a character who has human speeds. Or just cut the 'lightning' altogether. 😐

Can we please get a scene where he does use a full blown lightning bolt? It's tiring just hearing about it and not seeing it.

But just one thing

Give the character superspeed. Or just don't make the player have to reflect lightning with a character who has human speeds. Or just cut the 'lightning' altogether. no expression

Your first proposal wouldn't change anything. If the character has superspeed, it still doesn't change the fact that the human player wouldn't be able to react to actual lightning speed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. You use the gamplay speed of Links great spin bollocks as well as Dark Link jumping on Links sword as if its canon so why are you so picky about this? Things that occur in gameplay are only non-canon if they either contradict something that occurs in a cutscene or another, higher form of canon or if theres a way to do it differently, in which case its not possible to prove it ever happened. The 'lightning' (which is btw, ball lightning at best, a magic attack which is yellow at worst) doesn't do the latter and you need to post the latter if its there.

Post it. Also, similar doesn't equal the same..

Post it. Prove that its actual full-speed lightning and not 'yellow jellyfish attack which might hit you this century if you're really lucky' (tm).

Prove it.

Prove. It.

Give the character superspeed. Or just don't make the player have to reflect lightning with a character who has human speeds. Or just cut the 'lightning' altogether. 😐

Scenario already did post it in this thread.

YouTube video
^Tadah, full speed lightning as early as 1991

Originally posted by Nephthys
Post it. Also, similar doesn't equal the same..

YouTube video
1:50

Prove it

YouTube video

1:20

No comment so far, just evidence.

See, that wasn't hard. Though none of them actually compare to actual lightning. And the fastest one is the OoT one, which I'm iffy about. Looks like tricky camera-work to me.

And it still doesn't make the lightning Ganon used in the original vid any faster imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
See, that wasn't hard. Though none of them actually compare to actual lightning. And the fastest one is the OoT one, which I'm iffy about. Looks like tricky camera-work to me.

And it still doesn't make the lightning Ganon used in the original vid any faster imo.

Co-signed. This does not make the original vid faster, it only proves that at specific times Ganon "has" used quicker lightning (not as fast as natural still).

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Cutscenes, precedents, canon facts, all disagree with you, you're clinging solely to a gameplay machanic, which would require Ganondorf to intentionally **** himself to make any sense.

DMC players can, without slowing anything down, bat bullets out of the air?

All those things support me, because none of those things are in the described vid where the feat takes place, the canon facts array against you, you just want to change them.

Thats an interesting point actually "slowing anything down", thats another thing someone can do to counter your "players have to react to it". And no but you can dodge it, unless your playing as Vergil then i think you can do his "sword spin" block to stop projeciles although its been a while so I am not sure.

So far theres nothing to suggest the orbs of energy are even fast, let alone give examples of what someone can do to slow something fast down for reaction sake.

OoT- A flash means nothing. Even if it was the same kind of attack the speed isnt shown, camera angle and all.

Four Swords- Its Ganon [not Dorf so is stronger] with the Tridant that grants him powers which he can't have in OoT/TP as he hasn't got said Tridant.

aLttP- Agahnim didn't get any powers from Ganon he was only possessed. He was a strong mage/priest before Ganon came to him so that doesn't link to what Dorf can do. That makes it a gameplay event that the played doesn't need to be react to.

Link's GG covered arms can take 3 gigajouls, his body however can only take [assuming for LoZ's side that his body takes the strain too] 600 tons of weight while resisting/pushing against it. Clear difference to what he can take where.

Again, all points above are good, I forgot about the fact Ganon in Four swords is stronger, his power ups in aLttP as well through the triforce and his darkness technique are also present.

If all he can take is 600 tons in his whole body then he is mincemeat. Not that I agree, I still think the whole scene is useless for a feat, Ganons glancing blow only sends the master sword a short distance. Someone would have to reach for some kind of gameplay/plot logic to ignore this.

As shown:

YouTube video

1:31, a sword that weighs hardly anything goes only about 10-20 meters. Thats not gigjouls of force.

If assumptions based around the plot are allowed,then it would be a double standard if I cannot claim Links arms only did not snap off because its important for the plot that he is fit for the fight.

Debunked without even bringing up orbs.

Where I do believe that that display is a poor way to show GG strength when it could of easily of been shot into a some nearby rocks, the point about what the arms/body can individually cant be argued against as his body has only taken that weight and has never shown the strength or resistance that the GGs have.

Basically an under [as Link was resisting/puching against it] 600 tonners punch will feel like like to Link what a normal guys punch is to another.

So even the best feat he could possibly have does not even help him. I guess we could break that 600 tons down more by the fact the surface area it covered was "through" Links sword, since the sword seemed to take most of it, then by the time the energy gets to Link gauntlets, it may be less than 600 tons which will split over the surface area of Links hands/arms?

That imo is the most complicated calculation, the effects of force over a surface area.

Wouldnt be too hard but for much easier method we could look in the opposite direction for relevence for this thread aka too lazy for calcs: Body can push against 600 tons, it'd take somewhat less then 600 tons of blunt force (le punch) to do effective damage/pain

^That + sword = moar pains.

[Note: A blade kill is 200/300x easier then a punch kill. Just sayin'.]

It goes without saying that Raziels strength+sharp edge would gut Link. So with that in mind, invisible Raziel TKs Link helplessly into the air and slices his throat.

Which is why earlier I said a big "hoo-ha" over exact strength differences is irrelevant and argueing powers is better. Link has fewer abilities that would even slow/bother Raziel. Ofc Raziel could also just use the reaver.

Raziel hasn't TK'd someone in place while he slashes them. Can't do it anyway. Vampires are eeeeeevilllll!

Raziels not even a vampire, and him being good or evil has no relevance to his TK. And kinetic shackles TKs someone in place, you could replace "TK's in place" with "launches link into the air" and while vulnerable and falling to his doom, slashes him in half....while invisible.

Assuming being evil had any relevnce on TK, Raziels perhaps the least "evil" character in LoK.

His powers are magic based, correct?

Hey, so I fell off my house yesterday. And while I was flying really fast towards the ground, I discovered something absolutely amazing. You can move your arms and legs while you fall! Can you believe it?!

Not TK. Infact the only magic Raziel has comes from the reaver, I dont think Raziels a sorceror unlike Kain.

Whats that got to do anything, its almost like your claiming Link has feats of being able to fight accuratly and use all his powers while in a free fall. Oh, and implying hes going to have much time to do anything is interesting, the whole process from him being Tked around, likely dropping losing half of his little items while Raziel has some fun before getting bored and destroying him could last at most a few seconds, minus the "having fun" part, a second.

Links going to be really dazed, confused, and disorientated in that second as an invisible Raziel comes from a direction that may not even be in his field of vision assuming he could see him in the first place.

Which doesn't answer my question. If his TK isn't magic based, then what is it? Mentally based sounds like lolz.

Can Raziel throw people upwards? So far all I've seen from the games is holding still, and pushing away and pulling closer to the user.

And no. What I'm doing is claiming Link isn't going to be paralyzed while he's falling. Your argument was that, for some reason, Raziel would simply hack Link to pieces as he falls. Personally I find it hilarious, because this action requires Link to actually be paralyzed. Which he's not.

Invisibility is useless against Link. Lens and Mask of Truth. Link's little items have their uses.

Oh, and disorientated...should not be a word. I think you were looking for disoriented. But why tated is a word I have no idea.

Mentally is what it is if anything. What do you mean sounds like lolz? motst TK comes from the mind ,its the same with Kain, Kain does not use sorcery for his TK.

I should assume so, technically when Raziel throws people away they fly through the air. TK is based around motions with Raziels hands.

He may as well be paralysed because theres nothing he can do, whats he going to do? try and do a great spin in the 1 second hes flying on his ass? against an invisible foe? Where Link goes, and what Link does is pretty much under Raziels control.

Not really useless, lens of truth while hes falling? I lold, it would prob fall and smash on the ground, as for the mask I am not sure Link canonically gets it and if he does, according to Zeldapedia it only allows him to see into peoples hearts and minds. Not "see invisiblity".

Its a word, they mean the same thing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Mentally is what it is if anything. What do you mean sounds like lolz? motst TK comes from the mind ,its the same with Kain, Kain does not use sorcery for his TK.

I should assume so, technically when Raziel throws people away they fly through the air. TK is based around motions with Raziels hands.

He may as well be paralysed because theres nothing he can do, whats he going to do? try and do a great spin in the 1 second hes flying on his ass? against an invisible foe? Where Link goes, and what Link does is pretty much under Raziels control.

Not really useless, lens of truth while hes falling? I lold, it would prob fall and smash on the ground, as for the mask I am not sure Link canonically gets it and if he does, according to Zeldapedia it only allows him to see into peoples hearts and minds. Not "see invisiblity".

Its a word, they mean the same thing.

Lol, prove it. Show me quotes that say Kain's TK is based via the mind and not just another spell. Find me some quote that says vampires in LoK get TK naturally. Most of Kain's little abilities are nothing more than spells.

Tossing someone upward would prove more difficult than to the sides, forward, or backward. Show me him doing it.

He does have a sword. And in order for little Raziel to "hack him to pieces" he would have to be within blade's reach. Hell, why don't you prove Raziel can even move that fast first. If you can prove this TK isn't magic, I'll give you that where he goes is up to Raziel. But, what he does is only up to himself. He's not helpless like you want to believe.

Yeah, he could. But why even bother? It doesn't take a whole lot to use the Lens of Truth. So why wait until he's falling? Especially if Raziel is going invisible first. That's a rather lengthy spell, right? He's used it while wielding both sword and shield before. Same with the mask.

I'd like to see Link block a sword to the back while in mid-air. You can't turn around in the air after all.