Originally posted by TheLordofMurderhe beat up dormammu
Not that I disagree that Galactus and the Inbetweener are more powerful than Kubik (as I firmly believe those guys are...or rather should be...more powerful than Kubik is; Agamotto, not sure as I consider the Galactus fight PIS...so I need something more accurate to gauge his power level upon), but just because you refer to someone as ascended, doesnt mean you automatically make them out to be more powerful than yourself.
@LordofMurder
Originally posted by LordofMurder
What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...
Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its for this reason that I tend to treat the Kubik statement as hyperbole.
How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright.
Oh and concerning the poll question, how many Odins does it take to equal a cube being, according to this hierarchy of power, about 1 :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1159592-thor_annual_1989__014_36_37.jpg
Originally posted by zopzop
@LordofMurder
[quote=LordofMurder]What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...
Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.
How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright. [/QUOTE]
It's hyperbole because before that incident there had never been any indications that Celestials were equal to let alone vastly superior to Cube Beings.
Perhaps bad writing would be a better label than hyperbole, but the point is that the statement came out of the blue.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's hyperbole because before that incident there had never been any indications that Celestials were equal to let alone vastly superior to Cube Beings.Perhaps bad writing would be a better label than hyperbole, but the point is that the statement came out of the blue. [/B]
If that statement was hyperbole, the one about Celestials being many orders of magnitude above Cube Beings, then why were two complete cube beings in fear of an un-named Celestials judgment?
Originally posted by zopzop
If that statement was hyperbole, the one about Celestials being many orders of magnitude above Cube Beings, then why were two complete cube beings in fear of an un-named Celestials judgment?
I'll use the same example I used in a previous thread:
It's like if there was a comic where Mordru cowers in the presence of Klarion the Witch Boy, claiming Klarion to be "many orders of magnitude" above him despite there being no previous indications of this and no overt power-ups done to Klarion to grant such status.
Should we then conclude that Klarion is Elder God+ or should we instead conclude that given prior showings the statement is utter crap? I elect the latter.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I explained why: bad writing and Celestial wanking.I'll use the same example I used in a previous thread:
It's like if there was a comic where Mordru cowers in the presence of Klarion the Witch Boy, claiming Klarion to be "many orders of magnitude" above him despite there being no previous indications of this and no overt power-ups done to Klarion to grant such status.
Should we then conclude that Klarion is Elder God+ or should we instead conclude that given prior showings the statement is utter crap? I elect the latter.
I don't know who Mordru is so I won't comment on your example.
But it wasn't just that one issue. I provided the link to a scan from the Thor Atlantis Attacks Annual and it stated a complete cube being isn't much more powerful than Odin (if at all) and definitely less than a Celestial in power.
Originally posted by zopzop
@LordofMurder
[quote=LordofMurder]What doesnt make sense is them having Galaxy busting power and them being able to affect things on a universal scale as that sort of thing clearly requires more power than their "job" requires them to possess...
Odin has galaxy busting power (on panel) yet he knelt to them.
How could it be hyperbole when Kubik and Kosmos (two full cube beings) were in fear of their continued existence when an un-named Celestal was about to judge them? I think they were literally holding each other out of fright. [/QUOTE]
Does Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).
And if Odin still has Galaxy busting power, he (along with the Celestials) needs a big retcon; Odin is an Earth level deity...why the hell does he need to be able to bust Galaxies!?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderDoes Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).
And if Odin still has Galaxy busting power, he (along with the Celestials) needs a big retcon; Odin is an Earth level deity...why the hell does he need to be able to bust Galaxies!?
odin isnt the only earth god with galaxy busting power
surtur,seth,Osiris and probably most of the skyfathers all have that power
and being earth level diety means nothing unless you think they are supposed to be silver surfer level
Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...
If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...
You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...
How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...
Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...
So how does one "bust" something like this?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderIts Magic for the most part,
Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...
You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...
How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...
Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...
So how does one "bust" something like this?
he can even create black holes to swallow a solar system iirc
it only makes since for skyfather to be above that
i dont see why you would retcon because DC comics skyfathers are more powerful than marvels
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Does Odin still have Galaxy busting power? Because in Thor 300 he sure as hell didnt; when Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu attacked Arishem as one, the attack only had enough power to knock a planet out of orbit (which is still alot as it actually requires more power to destroy a planet than move it from its orbit...real world physics for the win!).
Yup and it's been upgraded too. Odin and Seth's recent fight shook the multiverse and threaten reality itself.
And if Odin still has Galaxy busting power, he (along with the Celestials) needs a big retcon; Odin is an Earth level deity...why the hell does he need to be able to bust Galaxies!? [/B]
THANK YOU! I actually agree with you 100% on this. But what's shown on panel is what's shown on panel. Odin shouldn't be able to bust nations, let alone galaxies.
You know, all of this inflation (as pertains comic book character power levels) exists because of Superman...
If the old-school DC writers didnt pump up their golden boy to the extreme levels that they did, its very possible we wouldnt have the level of insane inflation that we have nowadays...
"The Ultimates" attempts (and does a fine job IMHO) of addressing that inflation...and while some of the characters are pretty powerful, they arent "OMFG bust a planet without blinking...LOLOLOLOL" powerful...
Anyway...rant off.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Surfer shouldnt be busting planets either IMHO...If I was incharge, there would be big fat retcons across the board being handed out as I attempted to inject "some" logic into a medium where almost none exists...
You know, terms like "Galaxy Buster" are thrown around nowadays like destroying a Galaxy is a trivial thing...
How exactly does one "bust a galaxy!?" Because a Galaxy possesses a supermassive black hole in its centre; no matter how much force and energy you hurl at it, it'll just absorb it and its Event Horizon will simply expand in size...
Same applies for the pletora of smaller black holes scattered about every galaxy...
So how does one "bust" something like this?
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why do you read comics if you're going to look for logic?
I read comics because they are entertaining...
But sometimes they go so far off the deep end that it bothers me a bit; Flash running at 13 trillion times the speed of light!??? Pre-Crisis superman casually moving planets out of their orbits!?????
Oh man, being a lover of physics...that makes me wince just thinking about it.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why do you read comics if you're going to look for logic?
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.
How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?
In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I read comics because they are entertaining...But sometimes they go so far off the deep end that it bothers me a bit; Flash running at 13 trillion times the speed of light!??? Pre-Crisis superman casually moving planets out of their orbits!?????
Oh man, being a lover of physics...that makes me wince just thinking about it.
Originally posted by zopzop
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?
In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).
It's fiction, and "good storytelling" is entirely subjective, I personally love a little zany inconsistency now and then.
Originally posted by zopzop
It has nothing to do with logic but good story telling.How does an Earth god with little to no worshipers accomplish things cosmic beings haven't been shown capable of doing?
In fact how can any Earth god get into even a "mere" planet busting fight without involving other skyfathers from the various pantheons. Since some skyfathers actually have worshipers on Earth and one would assume they wouldn't take it laying down if someone was threatening their power base (their worshipers).
++
This is a pretty tough call.
the power of a cosmic cube is supposedly infinite (yes, I know there's multiple layers of infinity), and as it evolves into a cube being it places self imposed limits on itself, becoming weaker in the process.
So POTENTIALLY, one cube being could wipe out any number of skyfathers. ten would probably even be lowballing it. We don't have a lot of feats for kubik, but Shaper of worlds devastated a significant chunk of the skrull empire before it decided to limit itself. Even AFTER self limitation it still has reality warping abilities on a planetary scale (Odin definitely does NOT) so I'd probably still comfortably put your average cube being (that is, not at full potential) over a decent amount of skyfathers- ten of Odin's class combined might be pushing it though.
