Kratos VS Akuma and Gouken

Originally posted by b64
Capcom USA does not own the Street Fighter. It never has.

Yes it does...

Originally posted by b64
Gouken actually did not stop the SGS, he canceled it. SGS is unstoppable. But also, it cannot take any effect on Gouken as his Power of nothingness protects him from basically everything.

Yeah, we know.

Originally posted by b64
You cannot know Akuma's durability as it was never shown/told..

You are right, we don't know Akuma's "full" drability.

Originally posted by b64
Gouken creating the new body? Show me the source of that, I am very interested.
It is notable that Gouken has awakened, not created a new body.

SFWWE is the source material where it was stated that he created a new body. I posted this a few pages back.

I do not know what makes you think that Capcom USA owns Street Fighter, as the developer and publisher is Capcom of Japan. Capcom USA owns Final Fight Streetwise, but it has nothing to do with Street Fighter.

SFWWE doesn't decide what is canon. You can clearly see in Akuma's ending that "There is no mistaking in his sensing that Gouken has awakened."

Originally posted by b64
I do not know what makes you think that Capcom USA owns Street Fighter, as the developer and publisher is Capcom of Japan. Capcom USA owns Final Fight Streetwise, but it has nothing to do with Street Fighter.

Wrong...

Originally posted by b64
SFWWE doesn't decide what is canon. You can clearly see in Akuma's ending that "There is no mistaking in his sensing that Gouken has awakened."

Wrong...

Hah. You could try to prove it instead of being ignorant. There is no point debating with you as you are inventing your own storyline which has nothing to do with canon.

All of info I wrote is correct and confirmed as canon.

You are just trying to false the facts.

I shouldn't have to prove to any "SF fan" in 2010 that Capcom USA has aquired the rights to SF and 90% of all ther other Capcom fightin' games. If you don't even know that, then your trully not worth debatin' or even talkin' to on the subject.

And you should try readin' through this measly 6 page thread before you make an ass outta yourself. You haven't posted anything but some crap from an endin' that's not even confirmed to be canon. I've posted link after link of OFFICIAL evidence so pleez, cut the the crap and quit bein' lazy and read the damn thread.

Have a blessed night🙂

Originally posted by No End N Site
I shouldn't have to prove to any "SF fan" in 2010 that Capcom USA has aquired the rights to SF and 90% of all ther other Capcom fightin' games.

"Debating Procedure"? There is no "debatin' procedure". If you don't know that Capcom USA hired Capcom JP to make SFIV, than you just showed you don't know all the facts.

I can choose to walk away, rather than fetch information for someone who should already know. It wouldn't be such a hard thing to do if he had just said, he didn't know and wanted to see. But to come outta no where and say I'm flat out wrong about something that should be common knowledge makes me take him less seriously now.

The problem isn't that he's wrong. Everyone's wrong sometimes. The fact is, he said "I" was wrong without actually researchin' what I said 1st. What ever happened to people researchin' claims before shootin'em down?

The Street Fighter IV producer is Yoshinori Ono. I don't see how is he connected to Capcom USA, as he works in Capcom Japan.

Your very statement that SFWWE decides what is actually canon is silly itself.

No sources from USA decide what canon is. You obviously need to read the SF Plot from GameFaqs. The only games Capcom USA owns and made itself are Mighty Final Fight and Final Fight Streetwise (FF😖W also needed to be comfurmed by Capcom J). Capcom USA really owns nothing more than that and cannot decide what is authentic.

I will give you the pure example.

In the original version of Muscle Bomber (Storyline based in 1982), Capcom said that the plot is taking place before Haggar became Metro City mayor. In the USA version, Haggar is described as "former Metro City major". Guess what statement is canon? The one stated by Capcom Japan, as it always has the final word. There are many mistakes made by USA Capcom that make no sense.

If you still think that Capcom USA decides anything in Street Fighter, then you are truly stubborn.

Okay pal. We'll take this 1 step at a time.

1. Capcom USA has the rights to SF, they "hired" CapJP to make the game.

Xism
Can you clear up some confusion. I always hear about how Capcom USA owns the rights to Street Fighter even though the games are still developed in Japan. How exactly did this happen and who’s really calling the shots when a game like Super Street Fighter IV is being made?

Seth's answer...

sKill
It’s true that Capcom USA owns a few IPs, including the Street Fighter brand. That arrangement was made long before my time, so I’m not sure how it came about, but it was likely for unexciting tax or other financial reasons. SFIV and Super SFIV were developed in Japan, and we’ve worked closely with the teams to help make the games achieve maximum awesome.

What makes this even more funny is that you could have just googled this, watched the credits or looked at the damn package.

2. You are bein' a real pain, either that, or you're just one lazy bastard. Matt Moylan has stated that he went to Ono and his team to find out how Gouken survived the SGS. They told him and he wrote it in the book. I posted the links for this a few pages back, but you are just too much of a "somethin" or other to actually look. I'll spoon feed you this so we can just move past this.

Matt
For some things we had to go to the game’s producers, such as on Gouken’s resurrection for example. In this case, the explanation used was given to us from Ono-san, as what the SFIv team had come up with as to how he came back to life. He said most likely it would not be address/spelled out directly in the game, but if we wanted to address it we should us that explanation.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/5205021/UDON_Street_Fighter_Comic_Book_Discussion?pg=87

3. CapJP had overridden USA back then cuz THEY OWNED IT. It's the other way around now and the info I gave was stated by your precious CapJP, Ono himself. CapUSA wants to stick to the old canon as much as possible which is why they admit that they had butchered translations back then and why they except CapJP's canon rather than rewrite it and use their own. But make no msitake, CapUSA is in charge.

All you have is a plenty of random non-confirmed quotes and link which sends you to the discussion about UDON Street Fighter Comic Book.

It is now pointless to continue the discussion as I don't know what exactly makes you believe that Capcom USA owns anything more than games mentioned above.

I took the name 'b64' to represent the website that is Capcom fighting games related and connected to the other websites for ages. (View my profile).

I wanted to reveal to you some things you didn't know, but looks like you just don't want to accept it.

You should read the FAQ Street Fighter Plot Guide revealed on GameFaqs.com

Originally posted by b64
All you have is a plenty of random non-confirmed quotes and link which sends you to the discussion about UDON Street Fighter Comic Book.

It is now pointless to continue the discussion as I don't know what exactly makes you believe that Capcom USA owns anything more than games mentioned above.

I took the name 'b64' to represent the website that is Capcom fighting games related and connected to the other websites for ages. (View my profile).

I wanted to reveal to you some things you didn't know, but looks like you just don't want to accept it.

Lulz, how foolish. Really nice try, but I'm afraid you lose. I posted the quotes and then the links under them to show you where exactly I got them from. You don't even take the time to read through the sites I linked you to and you just go on and on about nothin'.

B-bye now 🙂

P.S. 'Read that FAQ up and down for years and it's great (speak to the people who made all those faqs regularly, just so you know), but you should consider spendin' some actual cash on some official material. Unofficial non licensed FAQ<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Official current material. Lol.

I am connected with people who are making the FAQ's. Official material like the sources from SFWWE? That is silly. You don't know much about Capcom as well.

Like surzly dude. Whatever, go away. Anyone with eyes can see ya don't know WTF yur talkin' about.

Enough....

Let it go, both of you...

Seriously, Something needs to be done. We need to set6 up the established rules of canon AGAIN because people here tend to forget...

And while I disagree with No-Name's use of unsuported sourcebooks, I have a much STRONGER disagreement with using Tiamat's FAQ as any form of canonical value.

While the FAQ is a good read, unless you know how to use the information supplied within by backing it up with source information, it is utterly worthless in a debating sense.

Unsuported only to you. Capcom supports it and I think every other person on this section of the forum can agree that when Ono says something about SF, it is canon until he or someone else with greater knowledge says otherwise. Even if it contradicts what's said in the game. This is why the UDON team went to the SFIV team for answres.

"He said most likely it would not be address/spelled out directly in the game, but if we wanted to address it we should us that explanation."

You really want to start this again dude? fine...

Originally posted by No End N Site
Unsuported only to you. Capcom supports it and I think every other person on this section of the forum can agree that when Ono says something about SF, it is canon until he or someone else with greater knowledge says otherwise. Even if it contradicts what's said in the game. This is why the UDON team went to the SFIV team for answres.

You made the positive claim, you have to provide NON contradictory evidence to support it. It's not my fault, nor my problem that Ono's oppinion contadicts the actual display within the game. I cannot be any more clear about this dude, until the evidence is either confirmed to be what it is within the game, or at the very least does not contradict it, then, and ONLY then can it be seen as fact rather than beleif or oppinion.

Again, I'll reinterate this, you need to provide non-contradicting evidence to support yourself for this, and I'm not even the one against you, but if you try to use this, others will rip it to shreds to tear debates apart (Imagines what would happen if Sado was still here.... *Shudders*)

Originally posted by No End N Site
"He said most likely it would not be address/spelled out directly in the game, but if we wanted to address it we should us that explanation."

Like I said, it's contradicted within the priomary source by character dialogue and events... How can we possibly reconcile these discrepancies?

The only possible way we can do that is if we disreguard primary source in favour of this, which is ludicrous and would be utterly illogical.

C'mon you 3 lovebirds. Does Kratos have his haxx equipment here?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You really want to start this again dude? fine...

You made the positive claim, you have to provide NON contradictory evidence to support it. It's not my fault, nor my problem that Ono's oppinion contadicts the actual display within the game. I cannot be any more clear about this dude, until the evidence is either confirmed to be what it is within the game, or at the very least does not contradict it, then, and ONLY then can it be seen as fact rather than beleif or oppinion.

Again, I'll reinterate this, you need to provide non-contradicting evidence to support yourself for this, and I'm not even the one against you, but if you try to use this, others will rip it to shreds to tear debates apart (Imagines what would happen if Sado was still here.... *Shudders*)

Like I said, it's contradicted within the priomary source by character dialogue and events... How can we possibly reconcile these discrepancies?

The only possible way we can do that is if we disreguard primary source in favour of this, which is ludicrous and would be utterly illogical.

Dude, 'you' just knocked me in the previous post. That's why I responded. 'You' started this up again.

You need to understand that the creators of the game can overwrite the entire game's canon with just their words alone. Examples...

1. Creators said Poison was a dude. This clearly contradicts what's in the game.

2. SFA1 is not canon, nothin' in the games before or after states that this game is canon or not. We know it's not cuz the creators said so.

3. In SFA3, characters like Dan and Fei Long beat Bison. How do we know that these things didn't happened? The creators said so.

4. Ryu beat Sagat fair and square at 1st. It was later retconed that he went Evil. How do we know that? Cuz the creators said so.

The in-game's story is tailor made to fit the character you play as. That's not what's really canon. That's the whole point of why producers and developers give information in the source books because everything in the game is not true. The game itself is not the primary source of canon. The minds of the people who 'made' the game are the primary source.

Also, I haven't seen a single official source state Gouken was in a coma. The game only says he 'awakened' and "regained consciousness". Those are very vague things. Both of these things are said about Jedah (for example) even though we know his body was destroyed, completely. Gaining 'consciousness' and or 'awakening' can mean many different things. Bison's soul vacates his body and he hops in a newly created one all the time, using tech and Psycho Power. Is it really that hard to believe that Gouken can do the same thing usin' Mu, even if The Producer ( the guy who has to look at everything and oversee the entire project to ensure the best quality) says so?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Does Kratos have his haxx equipment here?

Just the Blades of Exile, the Fleece, the second weakest 'Rage' Mode in the series, and Typhon's Bane.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Dude, 'you' just knocked me in the previous post. That's why I responded. 'You' started this up again.

No, I stated why I disagreed with you earlier in this thread, and in the exact same sentence, I stated why I disagree with b64 more... I didn't actually "Start" a thing.

Originally posted by No End N Site
You need to understand that the creators of the game can overwrite the entire game's canon with just their words alone. Examples...

The problem with this is it creates undemonstratable vagrities within canon. Vagrities which become unprovable within debates such as these.

Originally posted by No End N Site
1. Creators said Poison was a dude. This clearly contradicts what's in the game.

Which means nothing in a VS debate. This discrepancy was made by CAPCOM of Japan from as far back as the original Final Fight due to the release of Poison's Bio.

Originally posted by No End N Site
2. SFA1 is not canon, nothin' in the games before or after states that this game is canon or not. We know it's not cuz the creators said so.

No, we know this because newer canon overrides old canon. in SFA was canon, it'sendings would clash with newer canon, rendering it obsolite. Since the release of Street Fighter Alpha 2, and Alpha 2 Gold, SFA has been obsolite.

Originally posted by No End N Site
3. In SFA3, characters like Dan and Fei Long beat Bison. How do we know that these things didn't happened? The creators said so.

Perhaps, but that doesn't stop people from using them amirite?

Seriously, if those endings where canon, the entire series would be fecked sideways. none of those endings are canon, because they follow a series of events, and Bison dies only once in A3.

Originally posted by No End N Site
4. Ryu beat Sagat fair and square at 1st. It was later retconed that he went Evil. How do we know that? Cuz the creators said so.

We know this because of a Retcon... Which has not happened in this case.

Originally posted by No End N Site
The in-game's story is tailor made to fit the character you play as. That's not what's really canon. That's the whole point of why producers and developers give information in the source books because everything in the game is not true. The game itself is not the primary source of canon. The minds of the people who 'made' the game are the primary source.

Listen to what your saying for a moment, and tell me this - you've played the entire game franchize with every character available right? If so, you would know there are a few vagrities and plotholes, empty spaces that make you scratch your head, so you go looking through official material to fill the gaps of the story. Perfectly reasonable. However, if you read something that contradicts what you know to be officially recognised within the game to be right, do you then take the sourcebook's interpretation to be the correct one because it's more conveniant?

you forget, Matt is not a CAPCOM employee, he may be an Advisor at times, but that does not give him the ability to overwrite primary canon.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Also, I haven't seen a single official source state Gouken was in a coma. The game only says he 'awakened' and "regained consciousness". Those are very vague things. Both of these things are said about Jedah (for example) even though we know his body was destroyed, completely. Gaining 'consciousness' and or 'awakening' can mean many different things. Bison's soul vacates his body and he hops in a newly created one all the time, using tech and Psycho Power. Is it really that hard to believe that Gouken can do the same thing usin' Mu, even if The Producer ( the guy who has to look at everything and oversee the entire project to ensure the best quality) says so?

Because it's not demonstratable. We know that Gouken was technically 'Dead' for a number of years, we know he came back, we know he looks a little older than he did back when Gouki SGSed him, we know Ryu & Ken recognized him on sight, we know Akuma recognised his power for what it was when the SGS failed the 2nd time, We know Gouki is capable of killing him in other ways due to after having recognised Mu in Gouken, he immediately challenged Gouken to a Death Match, and we know that Mu is not a force of creation. Logic dictates that Gouken was not 'Destroyed' or 'Killed' at all when he fell to the 1st SGS, merely rendered unconscious, because that was his first true test & use of Mu ever.

You can take Matt's interpretation if you like, hell CAPCOM itself can if they like, but until that Retcon happens, we have to follow what is. we cannot make assumptions like that until it is confirmed.