RoTS Vader vs Half-Blood Prince

Originally posted by Newjak
Who says he has to force choke him. He could just force push him. His force push was strong enough to send groups of droids hurtling backwards, and since he was able to match Obi-Wan in Force Push we can use Obi-Wan's feats for Force Push. Which include sending entire groups of droids flying backwards destroying them, and force pushing Grevious back a good distance.

So Anakin disarms him and Force Pushes him so hard into a wall he breaks every bone in his body. Or he just Force pushes from the beginning before Snape has a chance to do anything.

FF to 1:04, the death eaters apparate away faster than it takes to do force push. It's INSTANTANEOUS.

YouTube video

Apparating>>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push. Legilimens>>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push.
Death Spell>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push.

Originally posted by Serious Impact

As for Snape rendering Anakin useless by attacking his mind. Umm...What's to stop Anakin from using the force first to tell Snape to "Stop, don't talk, don't move"? If we can assume Snape can do all these things (because he does it to a helpless teenager), Anakin has shown in the Clone Wars that he can use the force to manipulate peoples minds.

The force only works on the weak minded. Snape fooled the most powerful dark wizard in history for almost 20 years. Vader, on the other hand, is so emotional and whiny he is tailor made for legilimens.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
FF to 1:04, the death eaters apparate away faster than it takes to do force push. It's INSTANTANEOUS.

YouTube video

Apparating>>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push. Legilimens>>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push.
Death Spell>>>>>>>>>>>>Force push.

Snape gets his wand removed, force pushed, or just straight has a lightsaber driven through him.

Why because Anakin is faster.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pack it in, dude, you're done here.

Oh FUUUCK! Another of RJ's epic level burns. Quick someone get me some water here, I'm burning uuuuup!!!!!!!!

Man, what a fantastic argument. Such succinct counter-points! Such marvelous arguments! I fear that you've beaten me worse than my right hand on a saturday. And it was glorious!

Snape death spells Vader. There's nothing Vader can do about it. Force choke takes a bit of time to kill, time that Vader does not have.

You keep saying that. Try seeing if that makes it tue.

[b]And no, Vader never, not ever, displayed TK strength that would crush someone's windpipe instantly. If Padme can speak while being force choked, Snape can too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dear god. I'm seriously amazed that they actually let you near electronic devices. He wasn't trying to kill her doofus. He was choking her into unconsciousness. Meanwhile he has more than shown the ability to crush a human throat. Watch this again:

2xQQm_4FdEc&feature=player_embedded

Then go slap yourself.

And reply to my post below.

And notice how she still falls unconscious far faster than she should have.

And you still havn't answered this post yet btw.

Originally posted by Nephthys
J.

No it doesn't, unless you can show proof that it can be spammed over and over again to dodge something, an application it has [b]NEVER been used for.

And even if he does dodge the first atack Anakin's going to zero in on him almost instantly with the Force (as he showed by being able to track the speeder in AOTC) and then rip his head off.

Yes it would be foolish to say that, but what you're saying is the equilvant of me saying that Mace will be able to spam Force push over and over to counter every little thing with the strength of nuke, even though he's never actually used the attack before. He has NEVER shown the aptitude, the ability or the skill with the power to be able to do that, so he can't. Its the difference between being able to punch and going 3 rounds with Mike Tyson. You're insinuating that Snape can do the latter, even though he hasn't even shown the ability to do the former.

Becuase he has NEVER done so, and NEVER shown the skill with the power to do so. So in short HE CAN'T.

That it is obvious that if something is touching they affect apparition. If Snapes being choked, whats your proof that he can apparate 'out' of it, when everything else touching a wizard apparating in teh movies has been taken with them?

I meant about the hightened reflex's, and I called you out on your 'it flailsh all the time Bluagh!' bullshit.

I did watch the video actually. And what I saw was Snape having enough time after harry cast the spell to turn around and reflect it back at him. Cry moar plz!

Force Sceam? That was a Force Choke. Check what you're posting next time.

Don't call me babe, muffcabbage. You posted one vid of Anakin Force Choking a defenceless woman by slowly raising his hand, one vid proving Sectumsempra is slow as hell and one vid of a force power Anakin can't even use. In short, you posted jack. That actually helped your argument that is.

Faceplam x1 Combo!

Why doesn't it count. Anakin used it. He had no speciial training or anything. What do you think its a power you can only use afetr having all your limbs cut off and then being set on fire, actually weakening your ability to use the Force. And you wonder why I said you don't know much about SW. 🙄

Cry moar plz!

They appear instantly, they don't apparate instantly. Look at the vid I posted, actual apparition is not instant. Also, prove that they appear instantly in the spot they're going to after apparating, becuase if the scene with Dumbledore apparating Harry is anything to go by, they don't.

MAN MUST BE NICE TO BE AN OSTRICH. ALL THAT NICE, LOVELY SAND TO HIDE YOUR HEAD INTO IGNORE FACTS. LIKE THAT THAT VID PROVES ITS NOT INSTANTANEOUS. SO GET THE **** OUTTA HERE WITH THAT 'HP WIZARDS ARE FASTER THAT SUPERMAN!' UTTER HORSESHIT.

Its a standard rule. If Snape can't beat Vader by any other way than by running away and getting something not in his standard equipment then obviously he isn't the superior combatant. It would be like me saying that Nightcrawler can beat Hancock because he can teleport and get a nuke. So obviously Nightcrawler is better than Hancock. OBVIOUSLY!!1!!

Faceplam x2 Combo!

Jesus Christ. What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously? God Damn. [/B]

Originally posted by Serious Impact
So, nobody gets tired while using magic?

Yup. And RJ thought you weren't paying attention. HA!

Originally posted by Serious Impact
They don't endlessly apparate over and over again, while fighting.

The "while fighting" portion is not necessary. Only the "endlessly apparating" portion where they do not get tired at all from apparating. And, if you need a scene where people do not get tired from continuously apparating, ministry of magic scene, towards the end of Order of the Phoenix. All parties endlessly apparate and use all sorts of magic and they do not seem tired.

Originally posted by Serious Impact
Yes, in the movies there are plenty of wizards apparating all over the place, but the fights only lasted a few minutes. I think a fight between Anakin and Snape would go on for quite a while and we don't know the effects of continuously apparating in a long, drawn out battle. We do know that Anakin has fought in long battles, lasting well over a few minutes, and kept going strong. I think Anakin wins in the endurance department.

As far as Anakin being more physically fit than Snape, you betcha. But, no, Snape does not get worn out from apparating: no one is ever shown doing that. We can go to a higher canon source, too: no one in the books gets worn out from apparating, either.

Rescript your fight knowing that.

Originally posted by Serious Impact
As for Snape rendering Anakin useless by attacking his mind. Umm...What's to stop Anakin from using the force first to tell Snape to "Stop, don't talk, don't move"? If we can assume Snape can do all these things (because he does it to a helpless teenager), Anakin has shown in the Clone Wars that he can use the force to manipulate peoples minds.

So one of the most powerful wizards (invented several powerful/potent spells as a student, alone) in all of HP is somehow falling for a Jedi mind trick that only works on the weak-minded, right?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The force only works on the weak minded. Snape fooled the most powerful dark wizard in history for almost 20 years. Vader, on the other hand, is so emotional and whiny he is tailor made for legilimens.

Weak minded is a relative term. The examples given in the movies only show beings that have specific resistances to force manipulation (Hunts and that other thing in the 1st movie). Everyone else it is used on, it is successful. Besides, as whiny as Anakin is, the only one successful at manipulating him (and it's questionable about whether the force was ever used), is Lord Sidious, and he started when Anakin was still a child. Being manipulated by the most powerful force wielder in over a thousand years is hardly a mark against Anakin. There isn't any other evidence that Anakin is easily manipulated by mental powers.

Snape fooled him, so all that means is that he was a master at manipulating people, which has nothing to do with his mental fortitude, or his magical prowess. There are people that do that all the time in real life, without magic.

Sorry, I obviously meant to say "Huts," and not "hunts" in that last post.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except Anakin is faster than Snape in reaction time. So the spell maybe instantaneous but the person using it isn't.

Snape gets his wand removed, force pushed, or just straight has a lightsaber driven through him.

Why because Anakin is faster.

Vader's supreme reaction time is more when he is in saber combat.

Originally posted by Serious Impact
Weak minded is a relative term. The examples given in the movies only show beings that have specific resistances to force manipulation (Hunts and that other thing in the 1st movie). Everyone else it is used on, it is successful. Besides, as whiny as Anakin is, the only one successful at manipulating him (and it's questionable about whether the force was ever used), is Lord Sidious, and he started when Anakin was still a child. Being manipulated by the most powerful force wielder in over a thousand years is hardly a mark against Anakin. There isn't any other evidence that Anakin is easily manipulated by mental powers.

Snape fooled him, so all that means is that he was a master at manipulating people, which has nothing to do with his mental fortitude, or his magical prowess. There are people that do that all the time in real life, without magic.

What's stopping Vader from crushing Snape's throat like he did to the droids at the end of RotS?

Nothing.

Except that was a post-suit feat. AND Vader only did it because he was freaking out over Padme's death.

Vader isn't freaking out here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. Watch any vid of Vader doing force push. The time it takes for Vader to raise his hand, extend it, and cast force push is more than enough time for Snape to apparate. Or even spell his ass.

Vader's supreme reaction time is more when he is in saber combat.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Except that was a post-suit feat. AND Vader only did it because he was freaking out over Padme's death.

Vader isn't freaking out here.

^^^

Originally posted by Newjak
Not really.

All he is saying is a stronger version of Anakin can not do something a weaker version of Anakin did even though they have the same skill set and experience.

That logically makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by Newjak
No it's pretty much Vader holds his hands up and that's all the time it takes as demonstrated by Obi-Wan when fighting droids. Which is faster than Snape can cast a spell.

^^^
I'll just repost this for that post-suit vader argument you keep using

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you're gonna deny what is shown in the vids? The vids >>>>your opinion, dude.

What you guys are failing to grasp is that as Vader grew older, he learned more, became more experienced. Naturally he became a more powerful Sith.

And what you are failing to grasp is that the Vader shown in the video crushing everything is only a few hours after losing to Obi-Wan. So that Vader wasn't more experienced or skilled then when was before being burnt. He wasn't more powerful.

In fact he was weaker since he had just finished losing his limbs and having a good chunk of his body burned away.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Except that was a post-suit feat. AND Vader only did it because he was freaking out over Padme's death.

Vader isn't freaking out here.

I assume that since you've stoppped actually trying to defeat my arguments and reply to my posts that you've conceeded. Excellent. I'm sure you'll like your new life as my *****. You may not get dental, but you get my love. 😍

Also a 10-incher up your jacksie whenever I get bored.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not but considering Anakin was just as proficient and strong and fast in Force Push as Obi-Wan demonstrated in their battle on Mustafar then Obi-Wan's feats are applicable and he could raise a hand and force push a group droids in about a second.

And what you are failing to grasp is that the Vader shown in the video crushing everything is only a few hours after losing to Obi-Wan. So that Vader wasn't more experienced or skilled then when was before being burnt. He wasn't more powerful.

In fact he was weaker since he had just finished losing his limbs and having a good chunk of his body burned away.

^^^^
This

Plus, we seem to easily forget that there was a Star Wars the Clone Wars movie. In it, Anakin easily pushes a droid back using force push. He also pushes a bunch of sand at Count Dooku, as well as blocks lightning from Count Dooku, using his lightsaber. I'm sure he does a number of other feats we fail to see him do in the main movies, but I just can't remember them all (and I'm not going to watch it again, just for this thread 😘).

He clearly has the ability to do a lot of the things you are saying don't count, simply because we didn't see him do them in the movies. However, once again, Snape never apparated and never fought anyone (other than repelling his own spell back at Harry), yet we are to assume he CAN do all these things. Sure, we can assume he can because of his status, his background, etc, but if you don't allow the same assumptions to be made about Anakin, then we aren't going to get anywhere.

Furthermore, you keep showing videos of others as an example of what Snape can do, but then refuse to allow the same for Anakin. Sorry, Newjak sums it up nicely. If Anakin force pushes Obi-one to a stand still, then there's no reason we can't assume that he can accomplish all the push/pull feats that Obi-one does throughout the movies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I assume that since you've stoppped actually trying to defeat my arguments and reply to my posts that you've conceeded. Excellent. I'm sure you'll like your new life as my *****. You may not get dental, but you get my love. 😍

Also a 10-incher up your jacksie whenever I get bored.

Given up? I've buried your arguments, time and time again. I've conceded shit, all I've done is proven, yet again, that wizard power>>>>Jedi power.

Snape death spells Vader if he is being force choked.
Snape apparate away from a force push.
Snape apparates away from a force pull.
Snape mind ****s Vader with legilimens.

End of debate.

Stop trying to be AC, it doesn't suit you.

Originally posted by Serious Impact
^^^^
This

Plus, we seem to easily forget that there was a Star Wars the Clone Wars movie. In it, Anakin easily pushes a droid back using force push. He also pushes a bunch of sand at Count Dooku, as well as blocks lightning from Count Dooku, using his lightsaber. I'm sure he does a number of other feats we fail to see him do in the main movies, but I just can't remember them all (and I'm not going to watch it again, just for this thread 😘).

He clearly has the ability to do a lot of the things you are saying don't count, simply because we didn't see him do them in the movies. However, once again, Snape never apparated and never fought anyone (other than repelling his own spell back at Harry), yet we are to assume he CAN do all these things. Sure, we can assume he can because of his status, his background, etc, but if you don't allow the same assumptions to be made about Anakin, then we aren't going to get anywhere.

Furthermore, you keep showing videos of others as an example of what Snape can do, but then refuse to allow the same for Anakin. Sorry, Newjak sums it up nicely. If Anakin force pushes Obi-one to a stand still, then there's no reason we can't assume that he can accomplish all the push/pull feats that Obi-one does throughout the movies.

MVF rules, dude. The OP was quite specific.

And if you think a Jedi/Sith does not get stronger/learn new shit as they age, then you're a dumbass.