Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganShe's never failed to absorb Thor. Which is the point. Mutant powers succeed/fail in wholly arbitrary manners when it comes to gods. This only punctuates the need to prove they would work in the first place.
True, he was only part god.When did she fail to absorb thor?
I need to red read that issue. Is that the one were they "heal" some of the x-men, but really it merely it a trick?
Contest of Champions II sucked. Don't bother wasting your time. Gambit vs Hawkeye was cool. That's it.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He is alive and requires sustenance... but his physically body is just a representation that the mind applies to him. I think Thor would have better luck with energy absorption with Mjolnir than Red would. Arkady would have as much success draining Galactus as he would a tree.
And then there are the plenty of times when Galactus is just a big humanoid in a purple suit. Heck, Thanos even cloned part of the dude IIRC.
If you're against Galactus, what about Odin, Uatu etc.?
Of course Thor would.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
She's never failed to absorb Thor. Which is the point. Mutant powers succeed/fail in wholly arbitrary manners when it comes to gods.Contest of Champions II sucked. Don't bother wasting your time. Gambit vs Hawkeye was cool. That's it.
Meh it was alright. I liked how thor kissed Storm into submission lol.
Originally posted by Silent Masternor has it ever been stated that they are immune to spores or radiation, psionic field and yet here you are arguing it anyways. 😬
That has never been stated.
the only argument made is that bio page nothing else and stretching it to encompass their life force without an actual panel showing.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm saying that there's no proof Omega Red's mutant ability would work. Mutant powers succeed/fail in wholly arbitrary manners on-panel when applied against gods. So the burden of proof is fairly and squarely on you to prove it would work, not on us that it could never work.Jono still had "lifeforce." Obviously Omega Red already has on-panel limits when it comes to certain types of lifeforce. Had Omega Red absorbed the lifeforce from psychic entities, cosmic beings, mutants, humans, demigods, artificial life-forms, demonic entities, etc. and not shown any limits so far concerning certain types of lifeforce, there'd be a better argument that godly lifeforce shouldn't present an issue. That's not the situation here.
I don't think Omega Red should be held accountable for the failings of Rogues abilities. The only time Omega Red's powers have failed was on Jono, and that was because he was a disembodied psionic entity. Arkady has drained Colossus without effort, and Colossus's stamina and life force are infinite in his steel form. He doesn't tire, he does need sleep, he doesn't breath or eat.... and yet none of that stopped Arkady from draining him. Why would the Warriors Three with limited versions of the advantages that didn't help Colossus at all, succeed where Colossus failed?
Originally posted by King Castle
nor has it ever been stated that they are immune to spores or radiation, psionic field and yet here you are arguing it anyways. 😬the only argument made is that bio page nothing else and stretching it to encompass their life force without an actual panel showing.
It's been shown that at least Thor is immune to radiation, or did you miss the example I listed with the Presence?
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganI'm using the fact that out of three gods, Rogue failed to absorb two of them. And she randomly was capable of absorbing the most powerful one. Gorgon's stone stare failed against Phobos. Daken's pheremones worked against Ares. The success rate of mutant powers working on gods has nothing to do with how strong gods are. It's completely arbitrary. I'm pointing to that arbitrariness to explain why forcing a negative proof fallacy onto us is even more faulty in this specific situation.
I disagree. Your using a single character as the basis. Just becuase rougues powers fluctuate (which they have with mutants like pete) does not mean Omega red will not work.Meh it was alright. I liked how thor kissed Storm into submission lol.
Omega Red's powers don't have no limit. They already can't be used to absorb the lifeforce of psychic entities. He already has limits on-panel. And it had nothing to do with how strong the lifeforce was as he couldn't even affect a weakened Jono.
Prove it can work. Thats the burden. And rightly so.
Originally posted by srankmissingninJono is obviously not a disembodied psychic entity. He has a body. As stated before, mutant powers failing has nothing to do with the level of power being faced. Rogue could absorb Thor but not Ares. Has nothing to do with the relative power of the two. You're doing what King Castle tried to do on the last page, conflate probability of effect with potency of resistance.
I don't think Omega Red should be held accountable for the failings of Rogues abilities. The only time Omega Red's powers have failed was on Jono, and that was because he was a disembodied psionic entity. Arkady has drained Colossus without effort, and Colossus's stamina and life force are infinite in his steel form. He doesn't tire, he does need sleep, he doesn't breath or eat.... and yet none of that stopped Arkady from draining him. Why would the Warriors Three with limited versions of the advantages that didn't help Colossus at all, succeed where Colossus failed?
We haven't even gotten into the idea of whether the Warriors' level of lifeforce in, and of itself, would prove to be too much for Omega Red's powers. And this is all still a negative proof fallacy. I'm not trying to prove that Omega Red's power can never work. That's not the argument. Stop forcing it. This is about your burden, which is heightened in this context because of the arbitrary nature by which godliness affects mutant powers.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And then there are the plenty of times when Galactus is just a big humanoid in a purple suit. Heck, Thanos even cloned part of the dude IIRC.If you're against Galactus, what about Odin, Uatu etc.?
Of course Thor would.
Both Uatu and Odin could stop it from happening with their abilities, but if they just stood there and let Red try and drain them, it should work. I don't think being powerful means that they are inherently immune to life drain by nature of being powerful alone.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't think Omega Red should be held accountable for the failings of Rogues abilities. The only time Omega Red's powers have failed was on Jono, and that was because he was a disembodied psionic entity. Arkady has drained Colossus without effort, and Colossus's stamina and life force are infinite in his steel form. He doesn't tire, he does need sleep, he doesn't breath or eat.... and yet none of that stopped Arkady from draining him. Why would the Warriors Three with limited versions of the advantages that didn't help Colossus at all, succeed where Colossus failed?
Originally posted by Silent MasterThe Warrior Three are not Thor.. Thor can walk in a sun and not die. the Warrior Three are not as durable nor do they possess a fortified mystical spirit thanks to pops nor is he the norm for every asgardian. he actually battles for days months with a large reserve of stamina while guys like Hogun and Volstagg tire themselves out in small engagements or when running..
It's been shown that at least Thor is immune to radiation, or did you miss the example I listed with the Presence?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Both Uatu and Odin could stop it from happening with their abilities, but if they just stood there and let Red try and drain them, it should work. I don't think being powerful means that they are inherently immune to life drain by nature of being powerful alone.
I'm just trying to understand what you think his limitations are.
Originally posted by King Castle
The Warrior Three are not Thor.. Thor can walk in a sun and not die. the Warrior Three are not as durable nor do they possess a fortified mystical spirit thanks to pops nor is he the norm for every asgardian. he actually battles for days months with a large reserve of stamina while guys like Hogun and Volstagg tire themselves out in small engagements or when running..
I see, you're claiming that immunity to radiation is Thor specific.
Interesting, seeing as I've never seen that mentioned in any comic or bio.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganColossus is much stronger than Jono. So what?
True and then you can't even argue the power thing, because Colossus is much stronger then the warrior three.
Originally posted by King CastleDon't be ignorant. Hogun walked across half the State carrying a boar without stopping. And Volstagg took on Clor, who completely destroyed the Avengers Initiative and the New Warriors simultaneously.
The Warrior Three are not Thor.. Thor can walk in a sun and not die. the Warrior Three are not as durable nor do they possess a fortified mystical spirit thanks to pops nor is he the norm for every asgardian. he actually battles for days months with a large reserve of stamina while guys like Hogun and Volstagg tire themselves out in small engagements or when running..
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm using the fact that out of three gods, Rogue failed to absorb two of them. And she randomly was capable of absorbing the most powerful one. Gorgon's stone stare failed against Phobos. Daken's pheremones worked against Ares. The success rate of mutant powers working on gods has nothing to do with how strong gods are. It's completely arbitrary. I'm pointing to that arbitrariness to explain why forcing a negative proof fallacy onto us is even more faulty in this specific situation.
I do agree that the power of the god has no design on the out come.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Omega Red's powers don't have no limit. They already can't be used to absorb the lifeforce of psychic entities. He already has limits on-panel. And it had nothing to do with how strong the lifeforce was as he couldn't even affect a weakened Jono.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Prove it can work. Thats the burden. And rightly so.
Originally posted by Silent Masterno, i am saying dont use thor to make your argument. just like we dont use X-man, Legion, Apocalypse for the poster child for a benchmark for all mutants.
I see, you're claiming that immunity to radiation is Thor specific.Interesting, seeing as I've never seen that mentioned in any comic or bio.
there is a clear difference in each individual that is not shared by the norm mutant population same for the nor asgardian are nowhere near thor.
if you have to use some one use lady Sif, Valkyrie and the like to represent their class and tier not a trans lvl like being
^ You already saw that physical strength's got nothing to do with spores working or not. False distinction.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAnd yet, Jono has a lifeforce. Still can't be absorbed.
The Warriors Three aren't disembodied consciousnesses using a body merely as a husk to contain their energy.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganIt establishes that Omega Red has a power. Not that it would work against anybody. At this point, you're just not understanding what a negative proof fallacy is and relying, unfortunately, on a no limit fallacy. This argument has exhausted itself. We're arguing in circles.
I disagree.The fact he absorb beings like colossus, wolverine ect. with ease who possess many immunities lends more to the arguement it would work then it would not.
Either you get it, or you don't. We don't have to prove the spores would never work against Asgardians. You have to prove they do. The spores already have limitations on-panel against certain types of lifeforce. And gods already throw mutant powers out of whack arbitrarily. We don't have to prove the spores would never work against Asgardians. You have to prove they do.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Warriors Three aren't disembodied consciousnesses using a body merely as a husk to contain their energy.
I think that after Gillen's run that may be more the case than. At their core, they seemed to be energy. In particular the Odin Force. What finally convinced me he had a more different take was this:
From what I've glimpsed in Fraction's run, his going to follow something similar. I'm willing to bet that it'll be illustrated when Balder and Tyr are resurrected.
Hopefully Asgardians we'll get the chance to show us what they're capable of in Gillen's run.
