Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel vs NCR
Suppose the Capital Wasteland at the End of Broken Steel is returning to the west coast and has settled for a time in an area bordering the Mojave Wasteland and NCR at the end of a NCR Victory New Vegas Ending (Or Yes Man Ending if that's too much of an NCR Wank) First Contact between the two goes poorly for whatever reason and soon the two are at war, who wins?
This is an army vs army battle (Still within the rules if I interpret it right).
No, I'd say both as full strength if applicable (I mean, NCR are known to be utterly pittiful with on high having shitty resource management during peacetime, or even prior to known conflicts - such as their utter inneptitude to properly set up against a known Legion onslaught during the beginning of the game. However, they are known for being ruthless during annexation and nationalisation missions)
However, you are right, since this is after all the DLC and vanilla FO3, the ECBOS do have access to some remarkable amounts of fresh Enclave tech and facilities from Adams Airforce Base, The Satelite Relay Station, and whatever they could scavange from Raven Rock. This would include capured vertibirds for instance, plus a possible restoration of the mobile base crawler. Then there's the very real possibility of using that gear to restore Liberty Prime very quickly.
Also, their relations with the common wastlanders and recruitment pools would be massive thanks to post Project Purity relations... Mix this with the idden Valley detachment's sheer access to T-51B armors and Gauss rifles, and you've got a sufficiently deadly BOS force right there, and thats not including the potential for Outcast reintegration. If you include this, then thats all the tech the Outcasts have scaved, and the VSS base tech as well (Operation Anchorage).
My main concerns though is that the NCR would still heavily outnumber the BOS even with all that enhancement.
A secondary concern woul be the potential of activating the ARCHIMEDES II at HELIOS One. If they activate that, Prime could require rebuilding once again, if he isn't melted down by the beam altogether.
Also gotta take in the account that the satelite has to be in perfect orbit to be effective. That and look who you got trying to make the damn thing work: a chem addicted scientist and his FoA sidekick. By the time Archimedes is in position to take down Prime (so long as he is not nowhere near Helios One), the BoS's trump card could have done its damage. What makes Lyons different from his Mojave counterpart is that he is more than willing to use the tech to attack. But...Should Lyons deploy Prime at Hoover Dam, then the NCR can't risk firing the weapon, which means they lose the dam.
Ah yes, 'Fantastic" is horribly inept... However, if the Courier has sided with the NCR (As per the OP) thats different. However, both sides have their hero (Lone Wanderer and the Courier respectively...)
Your right though, I do beleive the sheer material superiority that Lyons brings to the BOS in this area would be irrefutable in just about every way, barring something equally as massive. The only side I could think of besides the Enclave that would have something that could take down Prime would be if the Boomers somehow got that bomber off the ground.
The NCR in an incredible stomp.
The NCR's resources outstrip those of the entire Capital Wasteland many times over. And the NCR's manpower makes the Capital Wasteland look like an absolute joke.
Keep in mind that the Brotherhood does not recruit just any random ****head, the Brotherhood would still have less members than the West Coast branch... That the NCR steamrolled in a day.
What took out Liberty Prime was not really that impressive, to be honest. Archimedes would be overkill.
Keep in mind, not only does the NCR have Vertibirds, but they have had them longer than the Brotherhood.
Oh, and there is the fact that the Enclave, which the Brotherhood needed Liberty Prime to combat, was but a mere remnant that fled from the NCR.
Even IF the NCR cannot destroy Liberty Prime, which is the only issue, what they CAN do is directly attack the Pentagon base while Liberty Prime is not there and take control of it from them. The only reason Liberty Prime works is because it has been set to see Enclave personnel as communists. Changing that should not be hard. Or they could just shut it down.
Manpower and resources give the NCR a fairly easy win. The Capital Wasteland Brotherhood is only just out of fighting a losing battle. The NCR is one of the largest and most powerful post-war civilizations in the US, with only Caesar's Legion and Mr. House being viable threats.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The NCR in an incredible stomp.
Oppinion et al. 😉
Originally posted by NemeBro
The NCR's resources outstrip those of the entire Capital Wasteland many times over. And the NCR's manpower makes the Capital Wasteland look like an absolute joke.
Not really.
5 years of developing captured EC Enclave tech, not to mention all the other goodies the Lone Wanderer provides Lyons (Zeta Tech anyone?) Sorry but the sheer technological edge far outstrips NCR by an unbeleivable factor here.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Keep in mind that the Brotherhood does not recruit just any random ****head, the Brotherhood would still have less members than the West Coast branch... That the NCR steamrolled in a day.
Prove it.
Broken Hills BoS had been falling apart before the war with NCR, and their xenophobic isolationism worked pretty hard against them. Lyons is far more flexible. and on top of this, the BoS have got many times the experience that the Hidden Valley chapter has.
Originally posted by NemeBro
What took out Liberty Prime was not really that impressive, to be honest. Archimedes would be overkill.
As stated earlier in this thread, NCR will NEVER get the ARCHIMEDES II working bcause they have a chem addicted retard and a Follower saboteur working on it, and to be frank, nothing else even came close to scratching Prime's paint, not even Vertibird gat lasers and mini-nukes, which is about as high end as NCR firepower gets.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Keep in mind, not only does the NCR have Vertibirds, but they have had them longer than the Brotherhood.
Which makes not one bit of difference since Vertibirds are the least of the NCR's problems, post Broken Steel and other DLC. We're talking possible base crawler restoration and Zeta level stuff.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh, and there is the fact that the Enclave, which the Brotherhood needed Liberty Prime to combat, was but a mere remnant that fled from the NCR.
After Prime was defeated, the BoS came up with an effective counter to Vertibird incursion in his absence, namely the Tesla Cannons.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Even IF the NCR cannot destroy Liberty Prime, which is the only issue, what they CAN do is directly attack the Pentagon base while Liberty Prime is not there and take control of it from them. The only reason Liberty Prime works is because it has been set to see Enclave personnel as communists. Changing that should not be hard. Or they could just shut it down.
How on Earth can they lay seige to the Citadel, when they had trouble knocking House out?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Manpower and resources give the NCR a fairly easy win. The Capital Wasteland Brotherhood is only just out of fighting a losing battle. The NCR is one of the largest and most powerful post-war civilizations in the US, with only Caesar's Legion and Mr. House being viable threats.
Your speaking and forgetting the 20 years Lyons held off the vault 87 mutants, or the resurgent 30 years more advanced Enclave and winning.
Then in the same breath you cound House as being a threat to the NCR despite his extremely limited operating theater and only a few hundred Securitrons at his best play...
I mean damn dude, anyone equiped with anything Zeta upgraded is going to b a combat monster... mix that with captured Enclave gear and your more powerful than Brock Samson....
Continuing from my thread...
The NCR's forces are already stretched to the limit, both from defending the dam and from countless attacks from the Legion, Fiends and the local wildlife of the Mojave (as seen with a corpse of a NCR trooper in Bloodborne Cave). Cass, Boone and even Hanlon verified this claim.
The NCR may have the numerical advantage, but the CW BoS has the tech and the weaponry to destroy The Bear.
The NCR wasn't doing a very good job of fighting Caesar's Legion when it was threatening to attack and overwhelm them. I see no reason to think they would suddenly get battle savvy once the Brotherhood of Steel arrived. I mean, they were having trouble with a group of people that primarily used machetes and spears. Only the higher level goons actually used guns.
No we have a group of power armed techies with technology than can wipe out whole squads of Enclave like it was nothing, and cannons that can take out Vertibirds with one shot.
The NCR's most powerful advantage would be the Archimedes. But that doesn't get operational unless the Courier fixes it. That scientist dude does NOT do it on his own. It was said the courier sided with the NCR, but that doesn't necessarily mean he/she fixed Archimedes. The starter of this thread should decide some of the actions the courier took through the game, Archimedes being the most notable.
Even with it, though, I don't see the NCR pulling a victory out of this one.
Well, the NCR was never made aware of ARCHIMEDES II, NCR wants the power directed to the Strip and McCarran, the choices are this, even spread, even spread overloaded, Freeside and Westside, (With Gannon) or activating ARCHIMEDES II. Now, since NCR does not know about the super weapon, I would say either Strip and McCarran get the power, or even spread it since those options make this a moot point.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero1. Not so much an opinion as it is a reasonable assumption. :3
Oppinion et al. 😉Not really.
5 years of developing captured EC Enclave tech, not to mention all the other goodies the Lone Wanderer provides Lyons (Zeta Tech anyone?) Sorry but the sheer technological edge far outstrips NCR by an unbeleivable factor here.
Prove it.
Broken Hills BoS had been falling apart before the war with NCR, and their xenophobic isolationism worked pretty hard against them. Lyons is far more flexible. and on top of this, the BoS have got many times the experience that the Hidden Valley chapter has.
As stated earlier in this thread, NCR will NEVER get the ARCHIMEDES II working bcause they have a chem addicted retard and a Follower saboteur working on it, and to be frank, nothing else even came close to scratching Prime's paint, not even Vertibird gat lasers and mini-nukes, which is about as high end as NCR firepower gets.
Which makes not one bit of difference since Vertibirds are the least of the NCR's problems, post Broken Steel and other DLC. We're talking possible base crawler restoration and Zeta level stuff.
After Prime was defeated, the BoS came up with an effective counter to Vertibird incursion in his absence, namely the Tesla Cannons.
How on Earth can they lay seige to the Citadel, when they had trouble knocking House out?
Your speaking and forgetting the 20 years Lyons held off the vault 87 mutants, or the resurgent 30 years more advanced Enclave and winning.
Then in the same breath you cound House as being a threat to the NCR despite his extremely limited operating theater and only a few hundred Securitrons at his best play...
I mean damn dude, anyone equiped with anything Zeta upgraded is going to b a combat monster... mix that with captured Enclave gear and your more powerful than Brock Samson....
2. I'm sorry, did you just give the Brotherhood Zeta tech? Even though that is not actually an option in the game? I just checked, there is no quest, not even unmarked to give Owens any ****ing Zeta tech. In other words, in canon, they do not have it. And if you do give them Zeta tech, then clearly you are only so aware of the fact that the Brotherhood does not have a chance in a canon or fair fight. 🙂 Other than that, of course the Brotherhood has a technological advantage, never denied that. But this advantage does nothing to change the fact that the NCR's outnumbers the Brotherhood a million to one. This is an entire nation's army, versus an army small enough to fit in the Pentagon. Wow. Then of course there is the fact that the NCR has more resources to draw from than the entire Capital Wasteland.
3. More experience fighting Super Mutants. The West Coast has much more experience with the NCR, and was still outmatched. I will not bother arguing which chapter of the Brotherhood has more members, since it is largely irrelevant. The NCR has a far greater amount of citizens they can recruit from to serve in the military, on top of just having a far larger military.
4. ONLY GUESS WHAT IT'S ACTUALLY NOT. The NCR has C4 which it used to destroy Boulder City, which was in fact actually a city back before the Battle at Hoover Dam, when the NCR defeated the Legion. So yes, the NCR does in fact have the resources to destroy Prime. As for Archimedes, while they do not actually need it, since they could just re-enact Boulder City for that, you act as though Mister Fantastic will always be the douchenozzle who will be working on it. And you also ignore that Mister Fantastic does, in fact, know how to get it to work. He just needed the Courier to do it for him.
5. Stop with the Mothership Zeta shit. The Brotherhood does not have access to that technology. As for the Base Crawler... You mean the one they blew the **** up? 😐 Yeah stop giving the Brotherhood technology they do not actually have. It's getting sad dude.
6. The Tesla Cannon was never shown to be mass produced by the East Coast, there are like 12 or so in the game. And is not a big deal on the east. Since if the NCR really wanted them... They could buy them. 😐 From the Van Graffs. Who they now do business with. Shit, for that matter, the Hidden Valley Brotherhood has Tesla Cannons as well. Really helped them out, huh?
7. It's almost like you think comparing House to the Brotherhood is clever. Ignoring the fact that House has a veritable army in the form of the Three Families, backed up by superior technology, Securitrons who are in fact the shit, and really House just being House. This is the man who saved Las Vegas by shooting nuclear missiles down with lasers. 😐 Do not act like the Brotherhood and Mr. House are anyway near equals. Oh, and despite this, House admits that, at the start, he could not sustain an open war with the NCR, Caesar's Legion being the current threat took their heat off of him. By the end of House's questline, he has thousands of Securitrons, is presumably making more, and each one is more durable than Power Armour. Each one is armed with a Gatling Laser, an SMG, and after upgrading, a missile launcher, a rapid-fire grenade launcher, and can repair itself in the middle of battle. Mr. House is the most competent man in the entire Wasteland, even before the war he was a genius that made shit like the Vaults possible. Do not compare him to the Brotherhood.
8. What? Are you saying that the Lyons held off the Enclave and was winning for 20 years? Are you high or something? Not sure what you are talking about. Because from how I read your post, what I am getting is that Lyons has apparently been Eldar since the age of 25. 😐 Can you rephrase that?
9. A few hundred. Wow. He has many patrolling the streets of New Vegas, and many more in storage to replace them. Not even counting the army that he has under the Legion's camp. And please stop comparing Mr. House to the Brotherhood.
10. They do not have Zeta equipment. :3 Oh and keep in mind Enclave Gear is not so cool in the Wasteland. I mean, really, the Van Graffs sell all the armaments the Enclave used. 😐
Originally posted by Snafu the GreatAnd yet the NCR still has far more than enough men to wage war with the Brotherhood. Which would be much easier than doing so with the Legion, since the Legion is the only army post-war who outmatches the NCR's in size.
Continuing from my thread...The NCR's forces are already stretched to the limit, both from defending the dam and from countless attacks from the Legion, Fiends and the local wildlife of the Mojave (as seen with a corpse of a NCR trooper in Bloodborne Cave). Cass, Boone and even Hanlon verified this claim.
The NCR may have the numerical advantage, but the CW BoS has the tech and the weaponry to destroy The Bear.
Oh and this reminds me, is Boone part of the NCR? 131 Since you know, Boone is generally considered to be the shit, and for good reason. He makes the snipers in the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood look like... Well shit. Give him an Anti-Material Rifle and watch the Power Armour crumble.
Originally posted by TacDavey1. Yeah man, I guess that is why they decidedly beat the shit out of the Legion during the Battle of Hoover Dam, the first one. Wow they suck dude, getting their asses beat by the Legion and shit. 😐 Not to mention... The Legion is huge. Gigantic. All of Arizona is their territory, and their "recruitment" policy gives them much higher men to arm with machetes to take on the NCR. Now, admittedly, the Legion would have a harder time with the Brotherhood than the NCR would, because while those weapons are kewl for killing NCR Troopers, Power Armour is much harder to pierce. But still, you need to take into account the sheer superhuman physical qualities of the Legion. Take a look at Centurion armor. It is scrapped from pieces of defeated enemies' own armour. Like Super Mutant armor. Or Brotherhood armour. :3 I am not just making this shit up, that is what Centurion Armor has. So obviously the Legion can fight the Brotherhood.
The NCR wasn't doing a very good job of fighting Caesar's Legion when it was threatening to attack and overwhelm them. I see no reason to think they would suddenly get battle savvy once the Brotherhood of Steel arrived. I mean, they were having trouble with a group of people that primarily used machetes and spears. Only the higher level goons actually used guns.No we have a group of power armed techies with technology than can wipe out whole squads of Enclave like it was nothing, and cannons that can take out Vertibirds with one shot.
The NCR's most powerful advantage would be the Archimedes. But that doesn't get operational unless the Courier fixes it. That scientist dude does NOT do it on his own. It was said the courier sided with the NCR, but that doesn't necessarily mean he/she fixed Archimedes. The starter of this thread should decide some of the actions the courier took through the game, Archimedes being the most notable.
Even with it, though, I don't see the NCR pulling a victory out of this one.
2. Wipe out squads of Enclave like it was nothing. With the exception of Liberty Prime, Brotherhood tech is not that advanced. And to be blunt, without Liberty Prime, the Enclave would have crushed the Brotherhood. Losing Liberty Prime was seen as a VERY BAD THING. It was only due to the Lone Wanderer, a certifiable BAMF, that they won.
3. Well said guy knew how to get Helios up and running. He just needed someone else to do the legwork. But it is irrelevant, Archimedes is largely unnecessary.
4. Yeah man, because vastly superior numbers backed by better recruiting, and much greater resources, is nothing in the face of the technological advantage that the NCr already has beaten. The ****ing West Coast Brotherhood has multiple members using Gauss Rifles. Yeah, but the East Coast is so hax. 😬
Sorry about the double post, original post was too long.