Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel vs NCR

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh and this reminds me, is Boone part of the NCR? 131 Since you know, Boone is generally considered to be the shit, and for good reason. He makes the snipers in the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood look like... Well shit. Give him an Anti-Material Rifle and watch the Power Armour crumble.

Boone is a powerhouse in New Vegas, that I'll admit (rivaled to that of Veronica Santangelo). But when you start off with him, he's been through more shit that could rival Dom Santiago.

1. Participated in the Bitter Springs fiasco, in which he shot at women, children, old folks and wounded Khans. This was one of the driving forces for him leaving the NCR forces.

2. Tracked down and shot his wife, Carla Boone in a mercy killing after she was sold to the Legion.

Depending on the choices you make, Boone can re-enlist in the NCR at the game's end...and goes after the Legion in his off time.

As for snipers in the Capital Wasteland, the only one who is a serious threat is Arkansas in Minefield.

Araknsas is mostly a threat because... He is surrounded by a Minefield.

Boone is the shit indeed. If the Legion takes over, can take on the Legion alone.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Not so much an opinion as it is a reasonable assumption. :3

Reasonability is debatable

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. I'm sorry, did you just give the Brotherhood Zeta tech? Even though that is not actually an option in the game? I just checked, there is no quest, not even unmarked to give Owens any ****ing Zeta tech. In other words, in canon, they do not have it. And if you do give them Zeta tech, then clearly you are only so aware of the fact that the Brotherhood does not have a chance in a canon or fair fight. 🙂 Other than that, of course the Brotherhood has a technological advantage, never denied that. But this advantage does nothing to change the fact that the NCR's outnumbers the Brotherhood a million to one. This is an entire nation's army, versus an army small enough to fit in the Pentagon. Wow. Then of course there is the fact that the NCR has more resources to draw from than the entire Capital Wasteland.

Neither is giving the Outcasts Gauss rifles, or the t-51b Power Armour, Oh wait, but you CAN give Casdin the Alien Blaster can't you? 😈

Listen well. The oan Wanderer is a part of Owen Lyons brotherhood, and he is also the captain of Zeta post that DLC. Now, this is set 5 years post Broken Steel, I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure thats more than enough time to ingrain Zeta's tech, and frankly, we do not know what sort of effect this will have. Your relying too much on numbers, the NCR's major numbers advantage would be cut apart by the Brotherhoods superior firepower unless they start properly equipping teir numbers. and Lyons is nowhere near as tactically stupid as Elijah was, he's not going to hole up in an indefensible tower.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. More experience fighting Super Mutants. The West Coast has much more experience with the NCR, and was still outmatched. I will not bother arguing which chapter of the Brotherhood has more members, since it is largely irrelevant. The NCR has a far greater amount of citizens they can recruit from to serve in the military, on top of just having a far larger military.

Again, superior numbers get cut to shit by any sound strategy and superior firepower

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. ONLY GUESS WHAT IT'S ACTUALLY NOT. The NCR has C4 which it used to destroy Boulder City, which was in fact actually a city back before the Battle at Hoover Dam, when the NCR defeated the Legion. So yes, the NCR does in fact have the resources to destroy Prime. As for Archimedes, while they do not actually need it, since they could just re-enact Boulder City for that, you act as though Mister Fantastic will always be the douchenozzle who will be working on it. And you also ignore that Mister Fantastic does, in fact, know how to get it to work. He just needed the Courier to do it for him.

And you expect that the NCR is going to somehow magically be able to breach the walls with C4 despite turrets on the walls and then expect it to penetrate where even fatmen cannot? righto...

Ahahahahaaa! C4 to destroy Prime! Oh my god..... You've just made my day Neme.... Thats the single most retarded thing I've ever read in a fallout debate.... Your talking about a bot that took fatmen, vertibird gattling lasers, and was designed to stop hordes of Chimera Tanks and Chinese Soldiers solo, and can do it from such a range as to make an elaborate chse and trap worthless?

Originally posted by NemeBro
5. Stop with the Mothership Zeta shit. The Brotherhood does not have access to that technology. As for the Base Crawler... You mean the one they blew the **** up? 😐 Yeah stop giving the Brotherhood technology they do not actually have. It's getting sad dude.

Yeah, the base crawler that was mission killed, not ddisintegrated, not demolished, and was still intact after the Orbital Strike.

You seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that the Brotherhood, given 5 years may actually be able to do something with the tech they now have access to. Tech that for 200 years was out of their reach, tech that no other Brotherhood chapter has access to. and Owen has shown he is more than capable of bending and breaking the founding Axioms if he beleives it's for the greater good. He is the only one to recruit outside the brotherhood, and he is the only one to actually research and develop new tech. Hell man, he now has access to something that no other chapter has ever had, and it's also what makes the NCR so powerful. You wanna know what that is? Production capability.

Yes thats right ladies and gerbils. the CW BoS are actually able to produce their own gear now, they don't have to rely on scavving. They have Adams production facilities, they have access to the Pitt's steel mill thru the Wanderer, they have (yes I'm going to damn well say it) Zeta's production lines, AND they now have access to an unlimited supply of fresh water thanks to Project Purity. I'm sorry Neme, but in 5 years the CW BoS can actually build up quite a lot. The lure of fresh water will lure potential recruits from as far as the Pitt and Point Lookout, effectively making the draw pool potentially limitless.

Originally posted by NemeBro
6. The Tesla Cannon was never shown to be mass produced by the East Coast, there are like 12 or so in the game. And is not a big deal on the east. Since if the NCR really wanted them... They could buy them. 😐 From the Van Graffs. Who they now do business with. Shit, for that matter, the Hidden Valley Brotherhood has Tesla Cannons as well. Really helped them out, huh?

The same NCR who barely can cover their frontlines with working Service Rifles and body armor? As for mass production, that gets solved by Adamns itself, and the Pitt. teh HV BoS had them? When? Never seen any BoS carry one in 3 games.

Originally posted by NemeBro
7. It's almost like you think comparing House to the Brotherhood is clever. Ignoring the fact that House has a veritable army in the form of the Three Families, backed up by superior technology, Securitrons who are in fact the shit, and really House just being House. This is the man who saved Las Vegas by shooting nuclear missiles down with lasers. 😐 Do not act like the Brotherhood and Mr. House are anyway near equals. Oh, and despite this, House admits that, at the start, he could not sustain an open war with the NCR, Caesar's Legion being the current threat took their heat off of him. By the end of House's questline, he has thousands of Securitrons, is presumably making more, and each one is more durable than Power Armour. Each one is armed with a Gatling Laser, an SMG, and after upgrading, a missile launcher, a rapid-fire grenade launcher, and can repair itself in the middle of battle. Mr. House is the most competent man in the entire Wasteland, even before the war he was a genius that made shit like the Vaults possible. Do not compare him to the Brotherhood.

Neme, where did you pull that number of Securitrons from? Thousands? Please provide proof of this.... No seriously, the numbers under Fortification Hill where low hundreds at best, and he couldn't have more than a hundred on the Strip. Like I said, if you think that the NCR can take the Citadel, why didn't they just drop the Lucky 38 with a stack of C4? I mean, you beleived it would do the job on the Citadel right? Pfft!

House's operational range is so goddamn limited the NCR could literally roll over the top of New Vegas in a day if they tried, there's no way they can do the same to the CW Brotherhood. Too much ground, many more bodies, and the Brotherhood's use of tactics that Securitrons cannot emulate makes this comparative WAY more favourable. What your doing is comparing Owen to Ellijah, Owen is not maniacle, insane, or stupid, and he's not wasteful or thoughtless with the lives of his troops.

Originally posted by NemeBro
8. What? Are you saying that the Lyons held off the Enclave and was winning for 20 years? Are you high or something? Not sure what you are talking about. Because from how I read your post, what I am getting is that Lyons has apparently been Eldar since the age of 25. 😐 Can you rephrase that?

No, he held off the V87 Supermuties for 20 years, then went on to defeat the Enclave thats 30 years more advanced than their Navarro counterparts. How old do you think Owen is? Sarah is in her early 30s, and he was Head Paladin during the time of the Scourge of the Pitt, which occured before the Pentagon was found, settled and fortified.

Originally posted by NemeBro
9. A few hundred. Wow. He has many patrolling the streets of New Vegas, and many more in storage to replace them. Not even counting the army that he has under the Legion's camp. And please stop comparing Mr. House to the Brotherhood.

You made the comparative Neme, by saying House is a major threat to the NCR, despite the sheer audacity of that statebent, I'm debunking it due to several reasons. One, the Securitrons are nowhere near as numerous as you think, 2 House is entirely dependant on the Lucky 38 remaining active, and 3 even if you complete House's endgame, his range is limited to the Mojave, the NCR is CONSIDERABLY larger as are the Brotherhood in it's entirety and FAR more mobile.

Originally posted by NemeBro
10. They do not have Zeta equipment. :3 Oh and keep in mind Enclave Gear is not so cool in the Wasteland. I mean, really, the Van Graffs sell all the armaments the Enclave used. 😐

Which was all Scavved from Navarro which is 30 years outdated. Oh and Zeta can be applied. I added that this is post all DLC being completed, and 5 years post Broken Steel. Why wouldn't the Wanderer give his bestest buds access?

Originally posted by NemeBro
And yet the NCR still has far more than enough men to wage war with the Brotherhood. Which would be much easier than doing so with the Legion, since the Legion is the only army post-war who outmatches the NCR's in size.

And yet the only reason they got Helios one was due to Ellijah being a total moron, not because the Brotherhood where inept fighters. You won't get the same strategic incompetence from Lyons.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh and this reminds me, is Boone part of the NCR? 131 Since you know, Boone is generally considered to be the shit, and for good reason. He makes the snipers in the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood look like... Well shit. Give him an Anti-Material Rifle and watch the Power Armour crumble.

Perspective. Boon is the shit, but it's not like he can do anything but Snipe. The Pride rips him to peices. Hell, Gallows stealth kills him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Yeah man, I guess that is why they decidedly beat the shit out of the Legion during the Battle of Hoover Dam, the first one. Wow they suck dude, getting their asses beat by the Legion and shit. 😐 Not to mention... The Legion is huge. Gigantic. All of Arizona is their territory, and their "recruitment" policy gives them much higher men to arm with machetes to take on the NCR. Now, admittedly, the Legion would have a harder time with the Brotherhood than the NCR would, because while those weapons are kewl for killing NCR Troopers, Power Armour is much harder to pierce. But still, you need to take into account the sheer superhuman physical qualities of the Legion. Take a look at Centurion armor. It is scrapped from pieces of defeated enemies' own armour. Like Super Mutant armor. Or Brotherhood armour. :3 I am not just making this shit up, that is what Centurion Armor has. So obviously the Legion can fight the Brotherhood.

We have no way of knowing that. Hell, that could be scrap they tore off of NCR Heavy Troopers pilfered power armor, which is already made non powered because the NCR stole it off of dead Paladins and was already scrapped.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Wipe out squads of Enclave like it was nothing. With the exception of Liberty Prime, Brotherhood tech is not that advanced. And to be blunt, without Liberty Prime, the Enclave would have crushed the Brotherhood. Losing Liberty Prime was seen as a VERY BAD THING. It was only due to the Lone Wanderer, a certifiable BAMF, that they won.

The same could be said for the Courier frankly. I mean both camps had the shit stacked against them, then they get these knights in shining armor come along and solve ALL of their problems.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Well said guy knew how to get Helios up and running. He just needed someone else to do the legwork. But it is irrelevant, Archimedes is largely unnecessary.

Please explain this. The NCR have nothing that can tackle Prime. I'm betting the the only ones to have a half shot at downing Prime are the Boomers, and even then it's iffy, the Boomers not having anything near the destructive capacity of the Bradley-Hercules satelite missiles.

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. Yeah man, because vastly superior numbers backed by better recruiting, and much greater resources, is nothing in the face of the technological advantage that the NCR already has beaten. The ****ing West Coast Brotherhood has multiple members using Gauss Rifles. Yeah, but the East Coast is so hax. 😬

The Enclave never recovered from the loss of the Rig at the time, thats why Nevarro fell. Hell, it's not like those that went east knew Nevarro fell anyway (As proven by Ed-E's tapes from Whittley) Almost all of the Enclave's resources where shifted to Raven Rock and Adams AFB, where they had 30 years to produce APA MKII, Tesla MKII and Hellfire PAs, ALL of which are now securely in the hands of the ECBoS, and ALL of which are more advanced than T-51b and ALL of which the BoS can now make more of. This, combined with the numbers of potential recruits drawn from project purity and combined with Gunney's training FAR outshines anything in the NCR's 2 weeks of trooper training...

Don't even tell me that the Ranger training or 1st Recon training makes up the difference in this... your talking about a very small percentage of the total NCR Military machine there, and even fewer ever actually "Earn their black armor" = make it to vet status.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

There's just so much wrong going on here.

Liek, I wish I wasn't lazy and I had the time to argue and point out all your bullshit man haermm

Though will just go ahead and point out there are only retarded hill bullies in Point Lookout, so, yeah. Not a viable recruiting place.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer

There's just so much wrong going on here.

Liek, I wish I wasn't lazy and I had the time to argue and point out all your bullshit man haermm

Though will just go ahead and point out there are only retarded hill bullies in Point Lookout, so, yeah. Not a viable recruiting place.

Try me kid.

Only retarded hillbillies? Hmm. Mercs are there... Desmond is there... Blackhall... And I wasn't just reffering to Point Lookout, There are areas bitween Washington and Point Lookout dude.

So tell me, where's the bullshit now?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Try me kid.

Only retarded hillbillies? Hmm. Mercs are there... Desmond is there... Blackhall... And I wasn't just reffering to Point Lookout, There are areas bitween Washington and Point Lookout dude.

So tell me, where's the bullshit now?

You don't even know how old I am mmm

Oh boy, a handful of mercs. Excellent. 5 moar guize will surely help. Desmond would likely not be willing to risk his ass like that, and-

wut?

Blackhall?

Are you shitting me? haermm

Yes, a ****ing old man is a viable option for recruitment haermm

You do realize that the BoS gives water out for, liek, free, right? And that most people in the Capital Wasteland are too chickenshit to actually risk their lives for no real reason other then heroism.

Would honestly take too long mmm. Though really, play through Fallout 3 again dood. You're saying shit like "OMG, T3h LONE WANDERER CAN REPLICATE ALIEN TECHNOLOGY!" when he has absolutely no ****ing idea how the alien technology works, nor does anyone else for that matter.

Or that the Outcasts will rejoin the Brotherhood. Even though the Brotherhood will continue, nay, increase in doing the very activities that made the Outcasts leave in the first place.

But waffles.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
You don't even know how old I am mmm

Do I care? Not at all

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Oh boy, a handful of mercs. Excellent. 5 moar guize will surely help. Desmond would likely not be willing to risk his ass like that, and-

wut?

Blackhall?

Are you shitting me? haermm

Yes, a ****ing old man is a viable option for recruitment haermm

The mercs respawn, it's not a one-off.

The others I rasied only to your knee-jerk post about there being "Only Hillbillies!" which was retarded.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
You do realize that the BoS gives water out for, liek, free, right? And that most people in the Capital Wasteland are too chickenshit to actually risk their lives for no real reason other then heroism.

you must have reading comprehension difficulties... I didn't say everyone in the CW would be instantly recruited. However, the prospects for drafting certainly increase due to the lure of Purity. The BoS's reputation is insurmountably improved, and with it, the prospect of new recruits. I could name quite a few outfits that would side with the BoS, including Rileys Rangers, Rivet City citizens and security, Perhaps leftover talons, Megaton Citizens...

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Would honestly take too long mmm. Though really, play through Fallout 3 again dood. You're saying shit like "OMG, T3h LONE WANDERER CAN REPLICATE ALIEN TECHNOLOGY!" when he has absolutely no ****ing idea how the alien technology works, nor does anyone else for that matter.

5 years man, 5 years and a whole bunch of sciency type Scribes backing him up, you would think that they won't do SOMETHING with it? GTFO!

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Or that the Outcasts will rejoin the Brotherhood. Even though the Brotherhood will continue, nay, increase in doing the very activities that made the Outcasts leave in the first place.

The problem was that (And yes, Casdin even says this) it's not yet time for them to start helping out Humanity directly, they need to gather more tech. Now, with that in mind, you think that post Broken Steel and Zeta tech would not be convincing? Yeah right.... Your officcially trying to pull excuses out your ass.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
5 years man, 5 years and a whole bunch of sciency type Scribes backing him up, you would think that they won't do SOMETHING with it? GTFO!

You, uh

Fail to ****ing comprehend that alien technology is far beyond anything mankind has ever created =|

Jesus Christ, when you grasp for straws, YOU GRASP FOR STRAWS!

And yeah, not getting into a debate with you, you and your utter lack of respect and general assclownish way of debating. Would prolly give me a brain tumor or something.

No, srsly, I recommend going back and doing another playthrough of Fallout 3 so that you know what the **** you are talking about 😬

But waffles.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Fail to ****ing comprehend that alien technology is far beyond anything mankind has ever created =|

Jesus Christ, when you grasp for straws, YOU GRASP FOR STRAWS!

Hows about you actually get your facts right? considering A: 5 men, and only 2 of them with any form of mechanical experience, one a kid and one a friggin cowboy actually defeated a 2nd ship with the tech "They do not understand" in less than 24 hours.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And yeah, not getting into a debate with you, you and your utter lack of respect and general assclownish way of debating. Would prolly give me a brain tumor or something.

No, srsly, I recommend going back and doing another playthrough of Fallout 3 so that you know what the **** you are talking about 😬

Excuse you?! What the blazes are you talking about? You came in here saying I was spewing bullshit, yet the 2 points you raised have been shot to shit, and now you want to troll me? I have no lack of respect for those that show respect FA, You didn't, so until you do, you get none in return. That certainly doesn't mean I go out of my way to trash people. I've played FO3 and it's 4 DLCs plenty of times, I have no need to do it again based o your say so, especially since you offer no proof or even the most remote alternative theory. Hell, man, I could say the exact same thing.

Why don't YOU go play the game and learn something.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Neither is giving the Outcasts Gauss rifles, or the t-51b Power Armour, Oh wait, but you CAN give Casdin the Alien Blaster can't you? 😈

Listen well. The oan Wanderer is a part of Owen Lyons brotherhood, and he is also the captain of Zeta post that DLC. Now, this is set 5 years post Broken Steel, I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure thats more than enough time to ingrain Zeta's tech, and frankly, we do not know what sort of effect this will have. Your relying too much on numbers, the NCR's major numbers advantage would be cut apart by the Brotherhoods superior firepower unless they start properly equipping teir numbers. and Lyons is nowhere near as tactically stupid as Elijah was, he's not going to hole up in an indefensible tower.

Again, superior numbers get cut to shit by any sound strategy and superior firepower

And you expect that the NCR is going to somehow magically be able to breach the walls with C4 despite turrets on the walls and then expect it to penetrate where even fatmen cannot? righto...

Ahahahahaaa! C4 to destroy Prime! Oh my god..... You've just made my day Neme.... Thats the single most retarded thing I've ever read in a fallout debate.... Your talking about a bot that took fatmen, vertibird gattling lasers, and was designed to stop hordes of Chimera Tanks and Chinese Soldiers solo, and can do it from such a range as to make an elaborate chse and trap worthless?

Yeah, the base crawler that was mission killed, not ddisintegrated, not demolished, and was still intact after the Orbital Strike.

You seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that the Brotherhood, given 5 years may actually be able to do something with the tech they now have access to. Tech that for 200 years was out of their reach, tech that no other Brotherhood chapter has access to. and Owen has shown he is more than capable of bending and breaking the founding Axioms if he beleives it's for the greater good. He is the only one to recruit outside the brotherhood, and he is the only one to actually research and develop new tech. Hell man, he now has access to something that no other chapter has ever had, and it's also what makes the NCR so powerful. You wanna know what that is? Production capability.

Yes thats right ladies and gerbils. the CW BoS are actually able to produce their own gear now, they don't have to rely on scavving. They have Adams production facilities, they have access to the Pitt's steel mill thru the Wanderer, they have (yes I'm going to damn well say it) Zeta's production lines, AND they now have access to an unlimited supply of fresh water thanks to Project Purity. I'm sorry Neme, but in 5 years the CW BoS can actually build up quite a lot. The lure of fresh water will lure potential recruits from as far as the Pitt and Point Lookout, effectively making the draw pool potentially limitless.

The same NCR who barely can cover their frontlines with working Service Rifles and body armor? As for mass production, that gets solved by Adamns itself, and the Pitt. teh HV BoS had them? When? Never seen any BoS carry one in 3 games.

Neme, where did you pull that number of Securitrons from? Thousands? Please provide proof of this.... No seriously, the numbers under Fortification Hill where low hundreds at best, and he couldn't have more than a hundred on the Strip. Like I said, if you think that the NCR can take the Citadel, why didn't they just drop the Lucky 38 with a stack of C4? I mean, you beleived it would do the job on the Citadel right? Pfft!

House's operational range is so goddamn limited the NCR could literally roll over the top of New Vegas in a day if they tried, there's no way they can do the same to the CW Brotherhood. Too much ground, many more bodies, and the Brotherhood's use of tactics that Securitrons cannot emulate makes this comparative WAY more favourable. What your doing is comparing Owen to Ellijah, Owen is not maniacle, insane, or stupid, and he's not wasteful or thoughtless with the lives of his troops.

So in other words,"This never happened in canon but I like the Brotherhood of Steel oh so much that I really want them to win so am giving them an advantage they never had. 🙁" It's absolutely adorable how you think the Brotherhood have anywhere near the technical knowhow to actually get the Zeta weaponry working, let alone mass-produced. When they have never shown that kind of technical skill, the only man alive who may be able to figure out how that works is... You guessed it, Mr. House. Whose intelligence is so obviously far beyond anyone in the Brotherhood. Oh do not get me wrong, it would take multiple NCR troopers to kill single Brotherhood soldiers in open battle, but the NCR has the numbers. Lyons is a tactical genius huh? When? :3 Since the only tactical abilities I saw were "Have Liberty Prime **** shit up" and "I guess we make a distraction and send this one guy to do most of the work." The NCR has much more experience in war than Lyons does. And Elijah's in competence is not what led to the Brotherhood losing the battle, it only led to them losing more than they had to because they should have fled.

2. Only the NCR has demonstrated superior strategic capability, logistically is at a much greater advantage, and of course, has far superior numbers.

3. Breach the walls of that scrap of shit? And yes, they can, turrets can be destroyed, and the Fatman doing nothing IS A GAME MECHANIC. Going by that, a Fatman cannot destroy the average Outhouse. 😬 This shit is sad kid, go back to the playground.

Why yes, since the C4 as the NCR used it on Boulder City is in fact better than a Fatman, or the gatling lasers. 🙂 The "orbital strike" was ****ing pathetic, get over it.

4. It was essentially demolished, actually. Any technology inside is destroyed, the thing blew up from the inside. You cannot get much from that.

I am not questioning his desire to build new technology. Only his ability.

Adams Air Force Base. I cannot actually recall a production line in it, other than what was destroyed by an orbital strike. And wow, kid, you have exceeded all expectations. You actually are giving them the Pitt and the Mothership Zeta production lines NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO USE? Holy shit, it's like if someone gave an Ethiopian schematics for the Large Hadron Collider and said "Build one." And giving them the Pitt? The Pitt that no matter what the Lone Wanderer does, does not belong to him? Now, I understand you liking the Brotherhood of Steel, but please stop giving them resources they, in fact, do not have, and get over it. :3 Oh, and before I forget, given the timeline you suggested, the NCR themselves have roughly a year to recover after defeating the Legion forever, which is more than enough time for the NCR. Project Purity is a joke. Considering the NCR has clean water EVERYWHERE, and food that is not irradiated. The Pitt? Either the Pitt ends up no longer needing slaves, cutting it off, or Wernher is dead and Ashur remains in control of the Pitt, and either way, they won't be joining the Brotherhood. As for Point Lookout... There are what? Five able-bodied non-mutant people in Point Lookout? Also, keep in mind... Aqua Pura... IS FREE. 😐 Aqua Pura will not make everyone want to join the Brotherhood, stop pretending it will. Everyone in the Capital Wasteland is out for themselves. Why would they join the Brotherhood against the NCR? Particularly when life under the NCR consists of even MOAR free water for everyone, and clean food, and better shelter? And regardless, the Brotherhood does not forcibly draft recruits. The NCR does. Recruitment is but another thing the NCR beats the Brotherhood at.

5. Kind of like how not every Brotherhood member has a ****ing Tesla Cannon, right? Or why not everyone gets their own personal Vertibird? IT'S NOT COST EFFECTIVE. You seem to think the Brotherhood will pull the materials and power sources for all this shit from the Ether, when they cannot. Adams does not have this grand production capability, and get this through your head kid, the BoS does not own the Pitt. HV Brotherhood can SELL them to you. Why would they be carrying Tesla Cannons? They are in a cramped, fortified bunker and not expecting war with anythign that necessitates them. 😬

6. No YOU provide proof of "A couple hundred." Mr. House's military is shown to be capable of standing up to the NCR and forcing them into a "treaty," to suggest he only has a few hundred is insane. He could not have more than a hundred at the Strip? I ask you: Why the **** not? House has been preparing for the war for years before it happened, he had the time, and definitely the resources, to do this. Shit, it is even strongly implied Mr. House has his own secret production lines, and has been known to take electronics and technology from the Wastes when it suits him, as he did with Vault 21. Hell, this is the same man who with an army of Securitrons enlisted the aid of the Three Families, and had New Vegas built in time before the NCR could get there. Mr. House is far and away the most competent individual in the entire world that we know of. And why did they not C4 the place? Mr. House was aware of the exact moment that NCR scouts entered the Mojave, and was able to disable a computer program uploaded in the Lucky 38 in a matter of seconds before it happened. The NCR doing that would incite a scuffle between New Vegas while they were already fighting the Legion. Now this may surprise you, but a war on two fronts is a bad thing.

Mr. House is "limited" to the Mojave in that he is content to stay there for the moment. Mr. House's entire plan is to rebuild civilization from New Vegas. And seriously? Have you actually played the ****ing game? Since in the Mr. House ending, Mr. House gains control of the entire Mojave, with the NCR unable to **** with his power. Kid, The Three Families are an army in their own right, and the Securitrons, along with being>>>Brotherhood troops to a man, is large enough. Plus Mr. House has ****ing laser cannons installed on the top of the 38. 😐 Good luck getting to the Mojave by Vertibird if Mr. House does not want you there.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, he held off the V87 Supermuties for 20 years, then went on to defeat the Enclave thats 30 years more advanced than their Navarro counterparts. How old do you think Owen is? Sarah is in her early 30s, and he was Head Paladin during the time of the Scourge of the Pitt, which occured before the Pentagon was found, settled and fortified.

You made the comparative Neme, by saying House is a major threat to the NCR, despite the sheer audacity of that statebent, I'm debunking it due to several reasons. One, the Securitrons are nowhere near as numerous as you think, 2 House is entirely dependant on the Lucky 38 remaining active, and 3 even if you complete House's endgame, his range is limited to the Mojave, the NCR is CONSIDERABLY larger as are the Brotherhood in it's entirety and FAR more mobile.

Which was all Scavved from Navarro which is 30 years outdated. Oh and Zeta can be applied. I added that this is post all DLC being completed, and 5 years post Broken Steel. Why wouldn't the Wanderer give his bestest buds access?

And yet the only reason they got Helios one was due to Ellijah being a total moron, not because the Brotherhood where inept fighters. You won't get the same strategic incompetence from Lyons.

Perspective. Boon is the shit, but it's not like he can do anything but Snipe. The Pride rips him to peices. Hell, Gallows stealth kills him.

We have no way of knowing that. Hell, that could be scrap they tore off of NCR Heavy Troopers pilfered power armor, which is already made non powered because the NCR stole it off of dead Paladins and was already scrapped.

The same could be said for the Courier frankly. I mean both camps had the shit stacked against them, then they get these knights in shining armor come along and solve ALL of their problems.

Please explain this. The NCR have nothing that can tackle Prime. I'm betting the the only ones to have a half shot at downing Prime are the Boomers, and even then it's iffy, the Boomers not having anything near the destructive capacity of the Bradley-Hercules satelite missiles.

The Enclave never recovered from the loss of the Rig at the time, thats why Nevarro fell. Hell, it's not like those that went east knew Nevarro fell anyway (As proven by Ed-E's tapes from Whittley) Almost all of the Enclave's resources where shifted to Raven Rock and Adams AFB, where they had 30 years to produce APA MKII, Tesla MKII and Hellfire PAs, ALL of which are now securely in the hands of the ECBoS, and ALL of which are more advanced than T-51b and ALL of which the BoS can now make more of. This, combined with the numbers of potential recruits drawn from project purity and combined with Gunney's training FAR outshines anything in the NCR's 2 weeks of trooper training...

Don't even tell me that the Ranger training or 1st Recon training makes up the difference in this... your talking about a very small percentage of the total NCR Military machine there, and even fewer ever actually "Earn their black armor" = make it to vet status.

2. Well let's see: The canon Mr. House ending of New Vegas backs up Mr. House being a threat to the NCR, Mr. House strongarmed them into a treaty that they did not want to partake in, and all canon evidence points to Mr. House being a serious threat considering every single other ending choice requires House dying, with the implication that total conquest of the Mojave is impossible while he is in the picture. Please stop. This is getting really sad. What you THINK has no bearing on what CANON dictates. CANON states Mr. House is able to make the NCR his ***** in his ending. Get over yourself. The Securitrons are not as numerous as I think? Well then, feel FREE to prove me wrong, since they are respawnable enemies, and Mr. House is able to manufacture new technology, and he spent his vast, pre-war fortune into making the army and keeping New Vegas safe, HUMOR ME and prove me wrong. The Lucky 38 is well protected. No aircraft is getting near it, and an attack on New Vegas is not likely. His range is limited to the Mojave? No, he is content with it. Shit, General Oliver AGREES that Mr. Houses forces are stronger than NCR forces, and while Oliver is a douchebag, if anything, he is a douchebag for overestimating the awesomeness of the NCR, not underestimating it.

3. Uhuh, no actually, where does it say the Van Graff weaponry is scavved from Navarro? Seriously, where? Other than "Why I made it up. :3" I mean, that is not a reason. The Van Graffs manufacture their own tech, what makes you think they cannot improve upon it?

4. Only that is not true. At all. Elijah was a moron because he held Helios for longer than he should of, the Brotherhood were already losing. Elijah's idiocy only led to them having more of their own killed than they should have.

5. Because Gallows has shown oh so much competence in stealth by outwitting SUPER MUTANTS. Particularly the ones on the East Coast, who are dumber than West Coast Mutants, albeit stronger. Boone in an ending takes on hundreds of Legionairres. Boone can kill them all before they can do shit, and makes Dusk look like a joke.

6. Only the scrap of Power Armour is that of the arm and... Pauldron. Something the NCR's scavenged Power Armour lacks. It is from the Brotherhood. And my real point was that Legionairres can and have taken out Power Armoured Brotherhood gaiz.

7. The difference being the Brotherhood was absolutely lost without the Lone Wanderer. The NCR and Legion were at a stalemate, and the Courier was there to break it.

8. Mr. House could wreck Prime easily actually. :3 But I digress. Luring it to a C4 covered town/valley/whatever is easy enough. And that will work, my son.

9. True, that was forgetfulness on my part, Augustus Autumn Sr. did in fact lead the Enclave towards the Capital Wasteland before Navarro fell. Seriously, even if they know how to make the equipment, why do you assume they have the resources to? I mean, sure, they could strip the dead Enclave and scrap it together from that, but that does not mean they could produce the materials needed to make this. And they do not have a real manufacturing plant. Sure, the average NCR trooper is not as well-trained as a Brotherhood member, but superior numbers. :3

Yeah only you don't factor in experience for NCR troopers who survive, and you did not factor in that those are just the only NCR elites we see... There are moar, like the Heavy Troopers for instance. Oh, and numbers. :3

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. I am not sure what you mean by "neither is..." And while you can give Casdin the Alien Blaster... Why would you? Not to mention that is irrelevant, since the Outcasts are not the Brotherhood, not anymore.

Your the one who said, essentially that: "Since we can't hand in Zeta Tech, the stuff is non canon!" The Outcasts ARE brotherhood, split sure, but as I said, with the tech that Lyons now has, he essentially completed the Brotherhoods mission by getting the tech.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So in other words,"This never happened in canon but I like the Brotherhood of Steel oh so much that I really want them to win so am giving them an advantage they never had. 🙁" It's absolutely adorable how you think the Brotherhood have anywhere near the technical knowhow to actually get the Zeta weaponry working, let alone mass-produced. When they have never shown that kind of technical skill, the only man alive who may be able to figure out how that works is... You guessed it, Mr. House. Whose intelligence is so obviously far beyond anyone in the Brotherhood. Oh do not get me wrong, it would take multiple NCR troopers to kill single Brotherhood soldiers in open battle, but the NCR has the numbers. Lyons is a tactical genius huh? When? :3 Since the only tactical abilities I saw were "Have Liberty Prime **** shit up" and "I guess we make a distraction and send this one guy to do most of the work." The NCR has much more experience in war than Lyons does. And Elijah's in competence is not what led to the Brotherhood losing the battle, it only led to them losing more than they had to because they should have fled.

You are a nutter Neme. They never had the advantage in game only because the game literally stalls after completing Broken Steel's sidequests. The thread is set 5 years after those events. so deal with it.

They got Prime working, they got Enclave tech, and alien Epoxy doesn't take a genius to use. You think that the Zeta tech is so insurmountable, yet you fail to realise that it's all still build with plates rivets and bolts.

Ok, so then how the **** did they actually survive 20 years that they DIDN'T have Prime up and running? No, seriously, I wanna know. Because you seem to think that the muties where roflstomping them into the ground, yet they STILL held their positions for 20 years. They gave as good as they got and stalemated the muties. The only difference is that the muties could replenish their numbers faster. but not a battlefield changing rate. And before you raise this point, the NCR is so very damn sow to mobilise, it would be the same situation.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Only the NCR has demonstrated superior strategic capability, logistically is at a much greater advantage, and of course, has far superior numbers.

REALLY?!?! Do tell! They where on the verge of getting shitstomped by a technologically regressed group of essentially Raiders and Tribals...

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Breach the walls of that scrap of shit? And yes, they can, turrets can be destroyed, and the Fatman doing nothing IS A GAME MECHANIC. Going by that, a Fatman cannot destroy the average Outhouse. 😬 This shit is sad kid, go back to the playground.

Why yes, since the C4 as the NCR used it on Boulder City is in fact better than a Fatman, or the gatling lasers. 🙂 The "orbital strike" was ****ing pathetic, get over it.

Funny you should mention Game mechanics... You know, like the Lone Wanderer not being able to give the brotherhood DLC weapons and all... You can't have it both ways Neme. either game restriction is out or it's in.

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. It was essentially demolished, actually. Any technology inside is destroyed, the thing blew up from the inside. You cannot get much from that.

I mentioned it ONLY as one potential sorce, but fair enough. it's irrelevant anyway since most of the Enclaves research and production was at Adams AFB anyway, because Autum didn't trust Eden.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am not questioning his desire to build new technology. Only his ability.

Ability gets resolved by Adams and Zeta anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Adams Air Force Base. I cannot actually recall a production line in it, other than what was destroyed by an orbital strike. And wow, kid, you have exceeded all expectations. You actually are giving them the Pitt and the Mothership Zeta production lines NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO USE? Holy shit, it's like if someone gave an Ethiopian schematics for the Large Hadron Collider and said "Build one." And giving them the Pitt? The Pitt that no matter what the Lone Wanderer does, does not belong to him? Now, I understand you liking the Brotherhood of Steel, but please stop giving them resources they, in fact, do not have, and get over it. :3 Oh, and before I forget, given the timeline you suggested, the NCR themselves have roughly a year to recover after defeating the Legion forever, which is more than enough time for the NCR. Project Purity is a joke. Considering the NCR has clean water EVERYWHERE, and food that is not irradiated. The Pitt? Either the Pitt ends up no longer needing slaves, cutting it off, or Wernher is dead and Ashur remains in control of the Pitt, and either way, they won't be joining the Brotherhood. As for Point Lookout... There are what? Five able-bodied non-mutant people in Point Lookout? Also, keep in mind... Aqua Pura... IS FREE. 😐 Aqua Pura will not make everyone want to join the Brotherhood, stop pretending it will. Everyone in the Capital Wasteland is out for themselves. Why would they join the Brotherhood against the NCR? Particularly when life under the NCR consists of even MOAR free water for everyone, and clean food, and better shelter? And regardless, the Brotherhood does not forcibly draft recruits. The NCR does. Recruitment is but another thing the NCR beats the Brotherhood at.

So.... Your telling me that Whitleys tapes don't tell you that production for at least the Duraframe Eyebots and Hellfire PA DIDN'T occur at Adams? Hmm, I guess the Enclave pulled all their armour weapons and equipment out of thin air then.

Nobody knows how to use eh? you mean the Slaves have been working in the Pitt to essentially work up a sweat for stuff all? heh, you are amusing.... Ashur being a former BoS helps, and if not that, Werner being etternally grateful to the LW makes BoS access easy as piss.

As for Zeta, thats been discussed above. Your trying to rebuff it because you think it's some sort of ecoteric tech that NOBODY will EVER understand, despite the fact that it functions very much like tech thats already there, only a few hundred years more advanced... hell man, the Followers give ED-E a goddamn Alien Blaster to replace it's bog standard Zapper.

The West Coast as plenty of clean water, thats true. However, the East has no such advantage, considering it was hit considerably harder by the bombs. This is why Purity is such a drawcard. Now I'm not saying that the Brotherhood will say "To Drink This you must join us" Nor am I saying that everyone who comes to Purity will immediately want to sign on. However, your ignoring one thing, their employment options are better WITH it, than without it. Thats what I'm getting at. they are making more and more positive contact with the outside world rght? they have already demonstrated the will to recruit outsiders. i'm pretty damn sure you can put 2 and 2 together Neme.

Originally posted by NemeBro
5. Kind of like how not every Brotherhood member has a ****ing Tesla Cannon, right? Or why not everyone gets their own personal Vertibird? IT'S NOT COST EFFECTIVE. You seem to think the Brotherhood will pull the materials and power sources for all this shit from the Ether, when they cannot. Adams does not have this grand production capability, and get this through your head kid, the BoS does not own the Pitt. HV Brotherhood can SELL them to you. Why would they be carrying Tesla Cannons? They are in a cramped, fortified bunker and not expecting war with anythign that necessitates them. 😬

I never said they did, did I? However, the fact remains that only a handful of elites actually get anything more than Service rifles that hardly work and bodyarmor. No, they have CATURED a working Base (Sans the Crawler which was only really mission disabled anyway), the Satelite Relay Station, and all of it's tech therein. And again, if Adams does not have production capabilities, then Whitley must be lying and the Enclave are crapping fresh armour into their armor cases every night, hence why they all are angry men with hemeroid problems, amIrite? And the LW has access to the Pit, and Zeta, he is the link in the BoS Chain really.

Originally posted by NemeBro
6. No YOU provide proof of "A couple hundred." Mr. House's military is shown to be capable of standing up to the NCR and forcing them into a "treaty," to suggest he only has a few hundred is insane. He could not have more than a hundred at the Strip? I ask you: Why the **** not? House has been preparing for the war for years before it happened, he had the time, and definitely the resources, to do this. Shit, it is even strongly implied Mr. House has his own secret production lines, and has been known to take electronics and technology from the Wastes when it suits him, as he did with Vault 21. Hell, this is the same man who with an army of Securitrons enlisted the aid of the Three Families, and had New Vegas built in time before the NCR could get there. Mr. House is far and away the most competent individual in the entire world that we know of. And why did they not C4 the place? Mr. House was aware of the exact moment that NCR scouts entered the Mojave, and was able to disable a computer program uploaded in the Lucky 38 in a matter of seconds before it happened. The NCR doing that would incite a scuffle between New Vegas while they were already fighting the Legion. Now this may surprise you, but a war on two fronts is a bad thing.

Nononono, Thats not how burden of proof works. You made the original positive claim of the thousands number, so YOU have to provide evidence for those numbers being fact.

You ask me why not? Because they are NEVER seen in anywhere near those numbers, Hell the Strip doesn;t have enough space for HUNDREDS of Securitrons, nevermind that number plus the residents and visitors.

Implication.... Funny you should mention that too. Adams not only stringly IMPLICATES as having production facilities for at least 2 of their major projects, but has proof positive in Whitley's tapes. yet according to you thats not good enough. Then, in the same paragraph you try to tell me that House has production lines Somewhere and not having a shred of proof? Double Standards much?

No, he detected it 32 seconds AFTER it was uploaded by the Courier, not before. House does not have precog. That said, I never disagreed that House was competent, My question was, how can you rate House as more of a threat than the ECBoS to the NCR when House's operational range is so damn limited? Even post House Ending his range is STILL limited to the Mojave. he'll never get within range of Shady Sands, whereas the BoS certainly can.

I am well aware that war on 2 fronts is bad. Well, technically speaking 3 fronts since they where still fighting the brotherhood at the time as well. Thats no excuse though. House's demonstrated strength at the time would have been crushed in a few weeks had the NCR put their mind to it. They where scared of the Legion though and where pressed into rethinking their strategy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Mr. House is "limited" to the Mojave in that he is content to stay there for the moment. Mr. House's entire plan is to rebuild civilization from New Vegas. And seriously? Have you actually played the ****ing game? Since in the Mr. House ending, Mr. House gains control of the entire Mojave, with the NCR unable to **** with his power. Kid, The Three Families are an army in their own right, and the Securitrons, along with being>>>Brotherhood troops to a man, is large enough. Plus Mr. House has ****ing laser cannons installed on the top of the 38. 😐 Good luck getting to the Mojave by Vertibird if Mr. House does not want you there.

Truth be told, I havn't beaten it with House yet, Nor Yes-Man for that matter.

Rebuild Civilisation perhaps, but at the time, his operational range was severely limited to the Strip pretty much, unless the Courier helps him, abd even then he is still limited to the Mojave. He doesn't have the means to extend that range in game, so he's not going east towards Arizona, and he's not going back west towards California any time soon.

Heh, and now prove that those Laser Cannons function now since the Lucky 38's reactor is offline unless the Courier helps him. Not to mention extreme lack of use since the bombs.

Hell, at least 1 of the 3 families, and the leader of a 2nd tried to stab House in the back.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Owen is IIRC 75 years old. And if by "Held off," you mean dwindled down and got their asses kicked, yes. By Owen's own admission, they were fighting a losing battle.

*Shakes head* for 20 years they held that line. 20 years. yes, they where slowly dwindling, but they lasted a HELL of a lot longer than anyone else in that position would have. the NCR troops don't have the means to hold off things like Behemoths and Overlords. Yes, the Mariposa Mutants where slightly smarter, but the V87 muties where far stronger.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Well let's see: The canon Mr. House ending of New Vegas backs up Mr. House being a threat to the NCR, Mr. House strongarmed them into a treaty that they did not want to partake in, and all canon evidence points to Mr. House being a serious threat considering every single other ending choice requires House dying, with the implication that total conquest of the Mojave is impossible while he is in the picture. Please stop. This is getting really sad. What you THINK has no bearing on what CANON dictates. CANON states Mr. House is able to make the NCR his ***** in his ending. Get over yourself. The Securitrons are not as numerous as I think? Well then, feel FREE to prove me wrong, since they are respawnable enemies, and Mr. House is able to manufacture new technology, and he spent his vast, pre-war fortune into making the army and keeping New Vegas safe, HUMOR ME and prove me wrong. The Lucky 38 is well protected. No aircraft is getting near it, and an attack on New Vegas is not likely. His range is limited to the Mojave? No, he is content with it. Shit, General Oliver AGREES that Mr. Houses forces are stronger than NCR forces, and while Oliver is a douchebag, if anything, he is a douchebag for overestimating the awesomeness of the NCR, not underestimating it.

Canon dictates whatever the Courier chooses to do. Not you. Mr House is a threat via political standpoint more than anything else, he is rich, richer than anyone else in Fallout. and it was through movement of that wealth and political acumen that made him a viable threat, not militarily, since he knew that if either side "won" the 2nd battle of the Hoover, the winner would literally steamroll Vegas. Thats the only reason. He's not a military powerhouse like you seem to think.

Like I said, You made the claim, YOU have to provide the evidence Neme, I'm not some noob you can push around with your backpedalling and trying to shift the burden of proof.

was that before or after the Platinum Chip escapade? Geez man, You need to stop and think about what your saying before you blurt that crap at me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Uhuh, no actually, where does it say the Van Graff weaponry is scavved from Navarro? Seriously, where? Other than "Why I made it up. :3" I mean, that is not a reason. The Van Graffs manufacture their own tech, what makes you think they cannot improve upon it?

Oh? Really? So the Van Graffes know how to produce energy weapons? Where was this stated then? And Weapon mods are a new feature in Fallout, I like it a lot, so much so that I'm trying WME out as we speak. Nevertheless, Peabody outright states that Plasma Weapons are "Limited" in modability. And Lyons states that 'The secrets of producing the P90 Plasma Rifle are all but lost."

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. Only that is not true. At all. Elijah was a moron because he held Helios for longer than he should of, the Brotherhood were already losing. Elijah's idiocy only led to them having more of their own killed than they should have.

No, it was idiocy that they stopped at all at Helios One instead of proceeding to the more difensible Dam, and that blunder cost them. Elijah was a scribe before becoming Elder, not a Paladin. Lyons was a Soldier.

Originally posted by NemeBro
5. Because Gallows has shown oh so much competence in stealth by outwitting SUPER MUTANTS. Particularly the ones on the East Coast, who are dumber than West Coast Mutants, albeit stronger. Boone in an ending takes on hundreds of Legionairres. Boone can kill them all before they can do shit, and makes Dusk look like a joke.

Gallows also showed his mettle with the Enclave dude. you seem to like forgetting things that are inconveniant. Oh my, ENDINGS! Shall we also bring up the one where he gets decapitated? No?

Originally posted by NemeBro
6. Only the scrap of Power Armour is that of the arm and... Pauldron. Something the NCR's scavenged Power Armour lacks. It is from the Brotherhood. And my real point was that Legionairres can and have taken out Power Armoured Brotherhood gaiz.

Ok, Fair enough, Now try to prove that they actually got that from a BoS member and didnt simply find a stash of T-45d PAs, I mean it's not like there arn't stashes of T-45d PAs around right? *Sighs*

Originally posted by NemeBro
7. The difference being the Brotherhood was absolutely lost without the Lone Wanderer. The NCR and Legion were at a stalemate, and the Courier was there to break it.

The NCR where on the verge of defeat Neme. Searchlight, Nipton, Nelson, Bombing of the Monorail at McCarran, great Khan and Omerta's siding with the Legion, Internal problems, Kimbal's assasination... I mean the only problem the Legion had really was Ceaser's brain tumor, and even if he dies, Lanius steps up to the plate... yeah, the NCR was so damn effective...

Originally posted by NemeBro
8. Mr. House could wreck Prime easily actually. :3 But I digress. Luring it to a C4 covered town/valley/whatever is easy enough. And that will work, my son.

Right, because it's not like Prime can't fight at range, or blow up Boulder City with a hurled Nuclear football right? Riiiiight.... All that Dynamite and C4 goes up like a fireworks display before Prime sets foot within 300 meters of the trap becaue it's an obstacle.

Originally posted by NemeBro
9. True, that was forgetfulness on my part, Augustus Autumn Sr. did in fact lead the Enclave towards the Capital Wasteland before Navarro fell. Seriously, even if they know how to make the equipment, why do you assume they have the resources to? I mean, sure, they could strip the dead Enclave and scrap it together from that, but that does not mean they could produce the materials needed to make this. And they do not have a real manufacturing plant. Sure, the average NCR trooper is not as well-trained as a Brotherhood member, but superior numbers. :3

They would do it the same way the Enclave did? I mean damn dude, the vaults have replicators (or something similar to) and the Enclave (Who funded and organised Braun's projects in the first place) would easily have that tech, now that tech is in the hands of ECBoS.

As I said earlier, numbers are an advantage, but that advantage dwindles in the face of superior firepower and tactics. The NCR have been known to act out like the Legion at times and just rush in with a massive press of bodies. Thats suicidal.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah only you don't factor in experience for NCR troopers who survive, and you did not factor in that those are just the only NCR elites we see... There are moar, like the Heavy Troopers for instance. Oh, and numbers. :3

I did factor those in, (Not reading my posts?) How many do you suppose are going to survive first contact? Not bloody many. and those that do are either going to be traumatised, or hailed as heroes for surviving. The Vet rangers and Heavy Troopers are pretty much held back for much of the game, tied up with brahmin barons and the Boneyard. They don't truly make a full apperance until after Kimbal's assasination attempt.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Yeah man, I guess that is why they decidedly beat the shit out of the Legion during the Battle of Hoover Dam, the first one. Wow they suck dude, getting their asses beat by the Legion and shit. 😐 Not to mention... The Legion is huge. Gigantic. All of Arizona is their territory, and their "recruitment" policy gives them much higher men to arm with machetes to take on the NCR. Now, admittedly, the Legion would have a harder time with the Brotherhood than the NCR would, because while those weapons are kewl for killing NCR Troopers, Power Armour is much harder to pierce. But still, you need to take into account the sheer superhuman physical qualities of the Legion. Take a look at Centurion armor. It is scrapped from pieces of defeated enemies' own armour. Like Super Mutant armor. Or Brotherhood armour. :3 I am not just making this shit up, that is what Centurion Armor has. So obviously the Legion can fight the Brotherhood.

I don't see what the fact that their armor is taken from bits of others has to do with anything...

The NCR is loosing ground to the legion, and the legion hasn't even left it's base across he river. They are loosing towns and settlements to the legion's because the higher ups don't know what they are doing. Ask any party member from the NCR, or almost any NCR character in the game. They are sitting on their thumbs letting the legion run wild because none of their superiors seem to know how to play war. NCR might be a powerhouse in the Fallout universe, but the detachment that's chilling in the New Vegas area is sourly lacking.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Wipe out squads of Enclave like it was nothing. With the exception of Liberty Prime, Brotherhood tech is not that advanced. And to be blunt, without Liberty Prime, the Enclave would have crushed the Brotherhood. Losing Liberty Prime was seen as a VERY BAD THING. It was only due to the Lone Wanderer, a certifiable BAMF, that they won.

Actually, I was referring to Liberty Prime when I made that comment. I still don't know if the Brotherhood has Liberty Prime or not. The starter of the thread should decide whether they have it fixed at this point or not. Because with Liberty Prime, I don't see what the NCR is really going to do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Well said guy knew how to get Helios up and running. He just needed someone else to do the legwork. But it is irrelevant, Archimedes is largely unnecessary.

I agree, since the NCR doesn't even know about it, and without the courier it doesn't get up and running anyway. So the NCR doesn't have it anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. Yeah man, because vastly superior numbers backed by better recruiting, and much greater resources, is nothing in the face of the technological advantage that the NCr already has beaten. The ****ing West Coast Brotherhood has multiple members using Gauss Rifles. Yeah, but the East Coast is so hax. 😬

I don't know why you think they have a much better recruiting option. Not a lot of people in the New Vegas area like the NCR very much.

I'll give you that the NCR has beaten a chunk of Brotherhood of Steel that was in the Vegas area. But the Brotherhood the NCR defeated was run by a mad man. Had it been in a competent leaders hands, it might have gone differently.

The NCR has enough trouble with slavers in centurion armor and machetes...

Liberty Prime wasn't tanking mini-nukes. For ****s sakes, not everything that has a mushroom cloud is some kind of ultimo-nuclear explosion.

According to Fallout Wiki, Sarah Lyons was born in 2251 inside the Lost Hills Bunker, which makes her 26 years old in Fallout 3 (31 by New Vegas).

Owyn Lyons was born in 2202, which makes him 75 by Fallout 3 (80 by New Vegas).